|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/21/2008 11:16:31 PM
|
|
|
Cephyr13
Posts: 210
Joined: 12/13/2006
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
The date is inferred by Cehpyr13 when he goes about the task of calculating the dates which The Apostle of God said that they had no need to discuss dates and it is not for you to know dates which The Father set by His Own Authority. What he is inferring is exactly as I calculated above. We must take into account the whole counsel found at Scripture. I notice that none of the Great tribulation Judgments have occurred, yet, as written in revelation. Could you please explain to me why your so-called theory does not account for these events having not transpired yet?
God bless you in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior.
The date is not at all inferred, and you've completely messed up the math and misused it. Nothing in the Bible indicates with Jesus' return is. I don't know where you're getting that.
< Message edited by Cephyr13 -- 3/22/2008 8:06:12 AM >
_____________________________
- Brian
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/22/2008 1:13:42 AM
|
|
|
cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
|
Greetings! I am getting my material from the Scriptures. Where are you getting your numbers? Please notice what is written in Daniel: Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.
And, you have not accounted for why the Great Tribulation desolation decrees that are written have not been poured out upon the earth for the last 1260 years!! That's how incorrect your numbers look when compared to what is written in Scripture. For it says the last 'seven' years of the times of the gentiles in Daniel.
Also, according to your calculations for erroneous dates: 1290 years + 1260 years + 1335 years = 3885 years; or 1290 years + 1260 years + (1335 years - 1260 years = 75 years)75 years =2625 years. Both calculations assume; erroenously that the gregorian calendar (aka solar calendar) is correct with regards to the birthdate of Jesus Christ. Scholars know that it is not. They have miscalculated the birthdate of Jesus Christ and it is commonly held that the true date is off by 2-5 years. Therefore, your dates are wrong anyway. They are not true to the prophetic calendar given to Moses for you must add a month every 7 years to the calendar that He was given. So, you are in error in that respect too.
quote:
In your, so called, theory in order to keep the prophecy in Daniel as it is written: Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days. You have foretold the future date, without knowing it. For the date that you have pre-supposed for the coming of the Lord Jesus in The Millennium is, by your own calculations: 1290 + 1260 = 2550 years. And, (1335 - 1290) 75 + 1290 + 1260 = 2595 years. Or, 1335 +1290 +1260 = 3885 years. Either way. the date that you have assumed to be the coming of The Lord Jesus in The Millennium is: the year 2023 or the year 3302! I do not see any proof that this date is Scriptural to calculate at all. It is a discipline of a false teacher to presume that they know the date.
As to the two Witnesses, it is written: "And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." I do not notice any two witnesses that have stood in Jerusalem prophesying over the nations for 1260 years! Also, it is written: If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.
Also, the times of the gentile nations are not completed, yet; for we see that the United States has Her place among the Nations of the world as a powerful Empire and not Jerusalem.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cephyr13
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
The date is inferred by Cehpyr13 when he goes about the task of calculating the dates which The Apostle of God said that they had no need to discuss dates and it is not for you to know dates which The Father set by His Own Authority. What he is inferring is exactly as I calculated above. We must take into account the whole counsel found at Scripture. I notice that none of the Great tribulation Judgments have occurred, yet, as written in revelation. Could you please explain to me why your so-called theory does not account for these events having not transpired yet?
God bless you in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
The date is not at all inferred, and you've completely messed up the math and misused it. Nothing in the Bible indicates with Jesus' return is. I don't know where you're getting that.
< Message edited by prophetica -- 3/22/2008 1:33:35 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/22/2008 3:22:56 AM
|
|
|
Retrobyter
Posts: 285
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: online
|
Shabbat shalom, prophetica!
The four calendars that the Jews use are actually all the same calendar with different beginning points. Wikipedia says it this way:
The Jewish year has four distinct starting points, according to the Mishnah, Rosh Hashanah 1:1:
The day most commonly referred to as the "New Year" is the first of Tishrei, when the formal New Year festival, Rosh Hashanah ("head of the year") is observed. (see Ezekiel 40:1, which uses the phrase "beginning of the year".) This is the beginning of the civil year, and the point at which the year number advances. Certain agricultural practices are also marked from this date.[11]
However, the first month of the year as prescribed in Exodus 12:2 is Nisan: "This month shall be to you the beginning of months". This means that the civil new year, Rosh Hashanah, actually begins in the seventh month of the year.
The month of Elul is the new year for counting animal tithes (ma'aser). Tu Bishvat ("the 15th of Shevat") marks the new year for trees (and agricultural tithes).
There may be an echo here of a controversy in the Talmud about whether the world was created in Tishrei or Nisan; it was decided that the answer is Tishrei, and this is now reflected in the prayers on Rosh Hashanah.
Actually, the Hebrew calendar is technically a lunisolar calendar. Wikipedia also gives us this information:
Structure
The Jewish calendar is a lunisolar calendar, or "fixed lunar year," based on twelve lunar months of twenty-nine or thirty days, with an intercalary lunar month added seven times every nineteen years (once every two to three years) to synchronize the twelve lunar cycles with the slightly longer solar year. Each Jewish lunar month starts with the new moon; although originally the new lunar crescent had to be observed and certified by witnesses, the timing of the new moon is now mathematically determined.
Concurrently there is a weekly cycle of seven days, mirroring the seven day period of the Book of Genesis in which the world is created. The names for the days of the week, like those in the Creation story, are simply the day number within the week, with Shabbat being the seventh day. The Jewish day runs from sunset to the next sunset, and accordingly, standard times and time zones have no place in the Jewish calendar.
The twelve regular months are: Nisan (30 days), Iyar (29 days),Sivan (30 days), Tammuz (29 days), Av (30 days), Elul (29 days), Tishrei (30 days), Cheshvan (29 or 30 days), Kislev (29 or 30 days), Tevet (29 days), Shevat (30 days), and Adar (29 days). In the leap years an additional month, Adar I (30 days) is added after Shevat, and the regular Adar is referred to as "Adar II".
The first month of the year is Nisan. The 14th of Nisan is the start of the festival of Pesach, corresponding to the full moon of Nisan. Though it is not expressly prescribed in these terms, Pesach is a spring festival, so the 14th of Nisan is the first full moon after the vernal equinox. Therefore, from the standpoint of determining the annual calendar cycle, the principal problem is that the lunar month/new moon of Nisan must occur before the spring equinox. Since at least the 12th Century, the Hebrew calendar has determined this time mathematically, but prior to this tradition held that the 1st of Nisan does not start (and an intercalary month would be added) "until the barley is ripe."
While the bible designates this month (without calling it Nisan) as the first month of the year, Rosh Hashanah, which is literally "The Head of the Year", meaning "The Beginning of the Year", is actually celebrated on the first of the seventh month, currently called Tishrei, so most Jews today view Tishrei as the "De Facto" beginning of the year. Although there are references to this holiday in the Torah, it was not then regarded as the beginning of the year, but more as a Holiday for reflection and remembrance.
"Pesach," by the way, is the Hebrew word for "Passover," the celebration when Yeshua` was crucified and buried and rose again. The only other piece of information you may need is ...
In a short (chaser) year, both Kislev and Cheshvan have 29 days. In a regular (kesidran) year, Kislev has 29 days and Cheshvan has 30 days. In a full (maleh) year, both Kislev and Cheshvan have 30 days.
When looking up about the lunar cycle, Wikipedia says in another place,
The time between two full moons (or between successive occurrences of the same phase) is about 29.53 days (29 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes) on average.
Using this information, one can arrive by either the Jewish calendar or the Gregorian calendar to a little over 6939 days for that 19-year cycle. Divide 6939 by 19 and one still gets 365.21 days per year on average!
Any way you size it up, to have a 360-day year is just WRONG! It throws off your calculations by at least 5 days a year for as many years as you are calculating! With the "1 day = 1 year" theory purported in this thread, for 1335 years for example, that's 18.277 YEARS off! (As an amateur mathematician and a student of computer engineering, I actually think this way.)
Personally, though, I believe when the Scriptures say 1335 days (yamim) it MEANS 1335 days! Why do we always have to say "this means that?" Isn't the rule of thumb in the Bible "let your yes mean yes and your no mean no"? My motto is "Don't go looking for trouble; it'll find you just fine on its own!"
Retrobyter
_____________________________
God will never abolish His Torah; He merely sent His Son to COMPLETE it so we aren't FORCED to keep it! (It's still a good idea, however.)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/22/2008 8:20:21 AM
|
|
|
Cephyr13
Posts: 210
Joined: 12/13/2006
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
Greetings! I am getting my material from the Scriptures. Where are you getting your numbers? Please notice what is written in Daniel: Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.
I'm getting my dates from the Bible and from much researched historical dates. You really should research this stuff, though, because you're completely misunderstanding some things.
For instance, Daniel gives the 1,290 days, then he says that the person that waits till the 1,335th day will be blessed. In other words, if a person waits 45 MORE days (or Hebrew years), he'll be blessed.
In 583 BC, the 1,290 days starts.
1,290 x .9857 = 1,271.5 solar years
-583 BC + 1,271.5 = 688.5 AD (building of the Dome of the Rock)
Now, let's figure out the 1,335 days from the same point (which is the same as adding 45 more Hebrew years).
1,335 x .9857 = 1315.9 solar yearas
-583 BC + 1315.9 yrs = 732.9 AD
732 AD is the year that the Muslim caliphate was stopped from taking over the whole of Europe. It was the year for the Battle of Tours where Charles Martel lead an army of 15,000 Christian soldiers against a Muslim army of 80,000. Only 1,500 Christians died in the battle, and the Muslim army was crushed and turned back, completely stopping the Muslim invasion of Europe. Had they lost that battle, you and I would not be speaking Arabic and wearing turbines. Can anyone say "Sharia Law"?
So yes, everyone was blessed on the year 732 AD, because they were not slaughtered by the Muslim Caliphate. That's what that prophecy was about, as you can see.
What you did with the math that completely messed everything up was that you added 1,335 days on top of the 1,290 days. And you didn't do the conversion either. So, if I were to have messed up in my calculations, I would've at least converted from Hebrew years to solar years, and I would've come out with this:
1,335 x .9857 = 1315.9 yrs
688.5 AD + 1315.9 yrs = 2004.4 AD
However, that's not what the prophecy says. The prophecy says that 1,290 days will happen, but 45 days later on the 1,335th day is when we will be blessed. It does not say to add another 1,335 days. Make sense?
You should read this book if you want to see how the math and prophecies work:
The False Prophet
www.ellisskolfield.com (click on Books & Essays and select The False Prophet Chapters 1-9)
If you do that, you'll understand all the math and historical dates behind it and the prophecies as well and you'll see how all 13 numerical prophecies came to pass exactly as prophecied on the dates they were supposed to. That is a statistical impossibility, by the way. If you asked any professional statistician, he would tell you that it is impossible for those prophecies to randomly come out perfect 13 times throughout over 2,000 years of history, unless God did it.
So, my challenge to you is to explain how 13 numerical prophecies from the Bible can come exactly true on the dates they were predicted to come true on WITHOUT God doing it. If you can prove how it's possible, then that will prove that my prophetic view is possibly not correct. However, the odds are WAY against you. The odds are better that you would win the lottery every day for the rest of your life AND get struck by lightning every day for the rest of your life than for these 13 numerical prophecies to cooincidentally fall on the correct dates over 2,000 years, unless these dates were really the ones spoken of by God in His prophecies.
_____________________________
- Brian
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/22/2008 8:27:23 AM
|
|
|
Cephyr13
Posts: 210
Joined: 12/13/2006
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
Any way you size it up, to have a 360-day year is just WRONG! It throws off your calculations by at least 5 days a year for as many years as you are calculating! With the "1 day = 1 year" theory purported in this thread, for 1335 years for example, that's 18.277 YEARS off! (As an amateur mathematician and a student of computer engineering, I actually think this way.)
Personally, though, I believe when the Scriptures say 1335 days (yamim) it MEANS 1335 days! Why do we always have to say "this means that?" Isn't the rule of thumb in the Bible "let your yes mean yes and your no mean no"? My motto is "Don't go looking for trouble; it'll find you just fine on its own!"
Retrobyter
You should do more research on calculating historical dates with solar years. The Jews have a 360 day per year calendar just as the Babylonians did. They would add days every few years and every 19 years, their calendar would line back up with the solar year calendar that had 365.24 days per year. However, the prophecy is not given taking into account the extra days added every few years. I know the structure and how it works. In order to properly do the math, all one must do is convert a 360 day year to a 365 day year. It's that simple. Here's how you do it:
360 divided by 365.24 = .9857 (this is your conversion factor)
This conversion factor coverts perfectly from a 360 day year to a 365.24 day year. Any historian will tell you that, because they have been educated in how to calculate dates from a 360 day calendar to a 365.24 day solar year (in which history is recorded, and therefore is required for them to figure out dates in cultures having a 360 day calendar).
So, actually, historians agree with me on how to properly calculate the days. You said I was losing 5 days a year, but I wasn't. It's figured into the conversion factor so that it comes out perfectly correct for a 365.24 day solar calendar. Again, if you'll do some research on how to calculate historical dates, you'll see that my method is the same as historians use. No different. You're assumption was incorrect.
_____________________________
- Brian
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/22/2008 8:39:35 AM
|
|
|
Cephyr13
Posts: 210
Joined: 12/13/2006
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
And, you have not accounted for why the Great Tribulation desolation decrees that are written have not been poured out upon the earth for the last 1260 years!! That's how incorrect your numbers look when compared to what is written in Scripture. For it says the last 'seven' years of the times of the gentiles in Daniel.
You tell me the decrees you believe must be poured out during the last 1,260 years, and then we'll see if the Bible actually says what you're stating must happen in those 1,260 years. All I see is the abomination of desolation that must occur after Jesus' death, and I have already identified that as 688.5 AD. What other decrees are you speaking of?
quote:
Also, according to your calculations for erroneous dates: 1290 years + 1260 years + 1335 years = 3885 years; or 1290 years + 1260 years + (1335 years - 1260 years = 75 years)75 years =2625 years.
Again, you really need to research this for yourself by reading the book The False Prophet by Ellis H. Skolfield before you go making these completely incorrect statements. I mean no offense by this, but the way you just combined the numbers up above again shows that you have no working knowledge of the theory I laid out. You need to understand the theory and the prophecies before you go trying to calculate date or you'll be WAY off, which you've just proven. I did no calculations like you did up there and I did not mix those prophecies the way you did. I had completely different starting dates as well. Nothing you just stated applies to anything we've been talking about thus far, because it's completely incorrect on the placement of numbers and dates.
quote:
Both calculations assume; erroenously that the gregorian calendar (aka solar calendar) is correct with regards to the birthdate of Jesus Christ. Scholars know that it is not. They have miscalculated the birthdate of Jesus Christ and it is commonly held that the true date is off by 2-5 years. Therefore, your dates are wrong anyway. They are not true to the prophetic calendar given to Moses for you must add a month every 7 years to the calendar that He was given. So, you are in error in that respect too.
I simply stated that 32 AD is the most agreed upon date by historians, and therefore we use that date as the best possible estimation for Jesus' death. And think about what you just said. You said that because we cannot prove that Jesus' death was on 32 AD, and because there is a 2 - 5 year ambiguity with the dates at that time, I am wrong. That's not logical at all. If there is a 2 - 5 year ambiguity, then 32 AD could be completely correct. What you should've said is that we cannot know if my 32 AD date is correct, but it is possible because of the 2 - 5 year ambiguity.
And in regard to the Jewish calendar, I've explained this a few times already. When you use the conversion factor of .9857, it accounts for the lost days each year. If you ask any historian, they'll tell you that you have to use the method I used in order to calculate dates in history for cultures that use a 360 day calendar. Are you telling me that all historians are incorrect in their method of calculating dates? That's basically what you're saying by telling me I did the math wrong, because I used their method of calculation, not my own. Please, do some research first, because you're wasting your time typing up these explanations and our time having to respond to them. Just read that book and you'll completely understand how it works and your questions will be answered.
_____________________________
- Brian
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/22/2008 10:53:10 AM
|
|
|
cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
|
LOL!! Please account for why the Great tribulation desolation decrees have not been out upon the followers of the false worldly prophet leader as written in revelation.
Also, please notice that we buy oil and products and trade with the arabic oil producing countries all the time. Therefore, the mark has not yet been instituted worldwide as you have proposed.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cephyr13
< Message edited by prophetica -- 3/22/2008 11:05:32 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/22/2008 11:24:10 AM
|
|
|
Midwest
Posts: 268
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
LOL!! Please account for why the Great tribulation desolation decrees have not been out upon the followers of the false worldly prophet leader as written in revelation.
What are you talking about? Please list the verses in Revelation you believe demonstrate this.
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/22/2008 1:38:13 PM
|
|
|
cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
|
Blessing to the people of God in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior! Please notice the Scriptures in Daniel concerning the desolation decrees and revelation; where they are delineated and numbered upon in succession as written by the Holy Apostle of God. That these issuances of God have not occurred, yet, anywhere in history as written: Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. We see that The Word of The Lord Jesus says that the days will be cut short. This means that the whole counsel of Scripture does not correspond with what you are presenting. For you are asserting that the desolation decrees will last for 1260 years by your assumptions. Please note, also, that The Apostle of God teaches concerning the first resurrection that first: the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
For it is written in the Apostle Paul: For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
LOL!! Please account for why the Great tribulation desolation decrees have not been out upon the followers of the false worldly prophet leader as written in revelation.
What are you talking about? Please list the verses in Revelation you believe demonstrate this.
< Message edited by prophetica -- 3/22/2008 1:52:11 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/22/2008 3:09:45 PM
|
|
|
Midwest
Posts: 268
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
LOL!! Please account for why the Great tribulation desolation decrees have not been out upon the followers of the false worldly prophet leader as written in revelation.
What are you talking about? Please list the verses in Revelation you believe demonstrate this.
Blessing to the people of God in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior! Please notice the Scriptures in Daniel concerning the desolation decrees and revelation; where they are delineated and numbered upon in succession as written by the Holy Apostle of God. That these issuances of God have not occurred, yet, anywhere in history as written: Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. We see that The Word of The Lord Jesus says that the days will be cut short. This means that the whole counsel of Scripture does not correspond with what you are presenting. For you are asserting that the desolation decrees will last for 1260 years by your assumptions. Please note, also, that The Apostle of God teaches concerning the first resurrection that first: the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
For it is written in the Apostle Paul: For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Once again, Please list the verses in Revelation you believe demonstrate this, the ramblings above do not list the verses in Revelation you said are there. Please list the verses not your opinion. Afterall if Revelation says what you said it did you should be able to show the verse! Book chapter and verse please!
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/22/2008 3:43:19 PM
|
|
|
Retrobyter
Posts: 285
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: online
|
Shabbat shalom, Cephyr13.
I'll read the book and research the numbers, but I still say that 360 days NEVER equals a year! Your conversion factor is BUNK!
Retrobyter
_____________________________
God will never abolish His Torah; He merely sent His Son to COMPLETE it so we aren't FORCED to keep it! (It's still a good idea, however.)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/22/2008 4:26:33 PM
|
|
|
Cephyr13
Posts: 210
Joined: 12/13/2006
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
Shabbat shalom, Cephyr13.
I'll read the book and research the numbers, but I still say that 360 days NEVER equals a year! Your conversion factor is BUNK!
Retrobyter
I never said 360 days equaled a year. I said that the Jews had a 360 day per year calendar. And every few years, they would add an extra month to account for the lost days, and every 19 years, their calendar lined back up with the 365.24 day solar calendar.
You are welcome to disagree with me and believe that my conversion factor is bunk, but just know that you are disagreeing with basically every degreed historian on the planet if you believe this. They all have the same conversion factor I used. And that's great that you're going to read the book. It'll give you far more information that I could ever give you. If you want a shorter version of that book with slightly more up-to-date information, purchase a new one for $9 at www.fishhouseministries.com The newer version of the book is called "Islam in the End Times." Great book, and you'll be able to read it more quickly. Otherwise, just read The False Prophet online at the link I gave you. :) Have a great day.
_____________________________
- Brian
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/22/2008 4:29:26 PM
|
|
|
Cephyr13
Posts: 210
Joined: 12/13/2006
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
Blessing to the people of God in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior! Please notice the Scriptures in Daniel concerning the desolation decrees and revelation; where they are delineated and numbered upon in succession as written by the Holy Apostle of God. That these issuances of God have not occurred, yet, anywhere in history as written: Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. We see that The Word of The Lord Jesus says that the days will be cut short. This means that the whole counsel of Scripture does not correspond with what you are presenting. For you are asserting that the desolation decrees will last for 1260 years by your assumptions. Please note, also, that The Apostle of God teaches concerning the first resurrection that first: the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
For it is written in the Apostle Paul: For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
LOL!! Please account for why the Great tribulation desolation decrees have not been out upon the followers of the false worldly prophet leader as written in revelation.
What are you talking about? Please list the verses in Revelation you believe demonstrate this.
I have already explained twice how these things have come to pass. I'm done debating you. Until you actually read the book and do your own research, I'm not going to keep debating your uneducated questions and accusations, because it's a big waste of your time and my time. I mean no offense by this, but it's going nowhere fast because you are unwilling to look at the references I've given you.
_____________________________
- Brian
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/22/2008 5:10:11 PM
|
|
|
Retrobyter
Posts: 285
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cephyr13
You should do more research on calculating historical dates with solar years. The Jews have a 360 day per year calendar just as the Babylonians did. They would add days every few years and every 19 years, their calendar would line back up with the solar year calendar that had 365.24 days per year. However, the prophecy is not given taking into account the extra days added every few years. I know the structure and how it works. In order to properly do the math, all one must do is convert a 360 day year to a 365 day year. It's that simple. Here's how you do it:
360 divided by 365.24 = .9857 (this is your conversion factor)
This conversion factor coverts perfectly from a 360 day year to a 365.24 day year. Any historian will tell you that, because they have been educated in how to calculate dates from a 360 day calendar to a 365.24 day solar year (in which history is recorded, and therefore is required for them to figure out dates in cultures having a 360 day calendar).
So, actually, historians agree with me on how to properly calculate the days. You said I was losing 5 days a year, but I wasn't. It's figured into the conversion factor so that it comes out perfectly correct for a 365.24 day solar calendar. Again, if you'll do some research on how to calculate historical dates, you'll see that my method is the same as historians use. No different. You're assumption was incorrect.
Shabbat shalom, again, Cephyr13.
No, YOU should do more research...WITH AN OPEN MIND for a change...into the Jewish calendar! The Jews have NEVER had a 360-day-per-year calendar "just as the Babylonians did" or anyone else! They have a 353-day year, a 354-day year, or a 355-day year 12 times in a 19-year cycle, OR they have a 383-day year, a 384-day year, or a 385-day year 7 times in the 19-year cycle. They don't have a solar year; they have a lunisolar year! It's based more on the lunar cycle than on the solar cycle, and the lunar cycle is 29 days, 12 hours, and 44 minutes from New Moon to New Moon. In the 19-year cycle, there are 12x12 + 7x13 or 235 lunar cycles. This is where I got the 6939 days per 19-year cycle.
The average of these is NOT 360 days per year; it's 365.21053 days per year! This is why it is very close to the solar average of 365.2422 days per year.
To base the conversion factor on a 360-day year and then to base the calculations of 360-day years on the conversion factor is a form of circular reasoning--a logical fallacy.
It's probably much easier to take a long span of time and find certain events whose dates will correspond to some calculated values. It will be much harder to fulfill 100% of these prophecies in a short period of time literally! Yet, the 400+ prophecies about the Messiah's first coming were fulfilled literally within His short lifespan!
Furthermore, legitimate historians would NOT use some "conversion factor" or try to make certain events fit some assumed agenda.
Retrobyter
_____________________________
God will never abolish His Torah; He merely sent His Son to COMPLETE it so we aren't FORCED to keep it! (It's still a good idea, however.)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/22/2008 7:35:45 PM
|
|
|
cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
|
Dearest midwest! Please click on the links and you find will every verse that I have mentioned is in the bible. Once more, I do not see any accounting for the Great Tribulation Judgment desolation decrees which are delineated upon at length in revelation as the trumpet and bowl outpourings on earth in your so-called theoretical explanation of the supposed historical fulfillment.
Thank you, kindly, for all of your sincere attention to These Things.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
LOL!! Please account for why the Great tribulation desolation decrees have not been out upon the followers of the false worldly prophet leader as written in revelation.
What are you talking about? Please list the verses in Revelation you believe demonstrate this.
Blessing to the people of God in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior! Please notice the Scriptures in Daniel concerning the desolation decrees and revelation; where they are delineated and numbered upon in succession as written by the Holy Apostle of God. That these issuances of God have not occurred, yet, anywhere in history as written: Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. We see that The Word of The Lord Jesus says that the days will be cut short. This means that the whole counsel of Scripture does not correspond with what you are presenting. For you are asserting that the desolation decrees will last for 1260 years by your assumptions. Please note, also, that The Apostle of God teaches concerning the first resurrection that first: the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
For it is written in the Apostle Paul: For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Once again, Please list the verses in Revelation you believe demonstrate this, the ramblings above do not list the verses in Revelation you said are there. Please list the verses not your opinion. Afterall if Revelation says what you said it did you should be able to show the verse! Book chapter and verse please!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/22/2008 7:48:07 PM
|
|
|
cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
|
Greetings favorable Cephyr13! The primary works that we are to draw on for our eschatological beliefs are found written in The Scriptures. For it is written: Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For Paul said: Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise.
Thank you, though, for taking the time to respond to the Scriptures in a positive manner which embraces true doctrinal sound teaching?! For Paul writes: See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cephyr13
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
Blessing to the people of God in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior! Please notice the Scriptures in Daniel concerning the desolation decrees and revelation; where they are delineated and numbered upon in succession as written by the Holy Apostle of God. That these issuances of God have not occurred, yet, anywhere in history as written: Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. We see that The Word of The Lord Jesus says that the days will be cut short. This means that the whole counsel of Scripture does not correspond with what you are presenting. For you are asserting that the desolation decrees will last for 1260 years by your assumptions. Please note, also, that The Apostle of God teaches concerning the first resurrection that first: the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
For it is written in the Apostle Paul: For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
LOL!! Please account for why the Great tribulation desolation decrees have not been out upon the followers of the false worldly prophet leader as written in revelation.
What are you talking about? Please list the verses in Revelation you believe demonstrate this.
I have already explained twice how these things have come to pass. I'm done debating you. Until you actually read the book and do your own research, I'm not going to keep debating your uneducated questions and accusations, because it's a big waste of your time and my time. I mean no offense by this, but it's going nowhere fast because you are unwilling to look at the references I've given you.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/23/2008 1:04:42 AM
|
|
|
Midwest
Posts: 268
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
LOL!! Please account for why the Great tribulation desolation decrees have not been out upon the followers of the false worldly prophet leader as written in revelation.
What are you talking about? Please list the verses in Revelation you believe demonstrate this.
Blessing to the people of God in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior! Please notice the Scriptures in Daniel concerning the desolation decrees and revelation; where they are delineated and numbered upon in succession as written by the Holy Apostle of God. That these issuances of God have not occurred, yet, anywhere in history as written: Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. We see that The Word of The Lord Jesus says that the days will be cut short. This means that the whole counsel of Scripture does not correspond with what you are presenting. For you are asserting that the desolation decrees will last for 1260 years by your assumptions. Please note, also, that The Apostle of God teaches concerning the first resurrection that first: the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
For it is written in the Apostle Paul: For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Once again, Please list the verses in Revelation you believe demonstrate this, the ramblings above do not list the verses in Revelation you said are there. Please list the verses not your opinion. Afterall if Revelation says what you said it did you should be able to show the verse! Book chapter and verse please!
Dearest midwest! Please click on the links and you find will every verse that I have mentioned is in the bible. Once more, I do not see any accounting for the Great Tribulation Judgment desolation decrees which are delineated upon at length in revelation as the trumpet and bowl outpourings on earth in your so-called theoretical explanation of the supposed historical fulfillment.
Thank you, kindly, for all of your sincere attention to These Things.
Where in Revelation does it say that desolation decrees are poured "out upon the followers of the false worldly prophet leader"? Book chapter and verse that says this please. It is my understanding Scripture says the false prophet is cast into the lake of fire, I can't even find the term desolation decrees in the Scriptures. If it really says what you say it does then you should be able to list the book chapter and verse that says it. If not then I see no reason to believe what you have said, so once again book chapter and verse please.
JMHO maybe you should take a look at the rules of hermeneutics! Your posts and reasoning are about as clear as mud, you have not demonstrated sound Scriptural support for what you say end result, I have once again found discussion with you to be nonproductive.
< Message edited by Midwest -- 3/23/2008 11:00:23 AM >
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/27/2008 10:10:38 AM
|
|
|
.IC.
Posts: 153
Joined: 6/16/2005
Status: offline
|
Hey All & Hi Cephyr13,,
There are some interesting ideas and theories you are raising here.
Capture th Dream,
yours In Christ,,
God Bless
_____________________________
HOLY, HOLY, HOLY, Lord God Almighty-
which was, and is, and is to come.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/27/2008 9:09:56 PM
|
|
|
cognitivemagic
Posts: 208
Joined: 1/14/2008
Status: offline
|
I'm not sure if we've found America so much as we have a proposal that's more complicated than Algebraic word problems!!
I mean, c'mon.
This is as silly as being more interested in the meanings of esoteric "bible codes" than the plain reading of the text.
I mean, c'mon.
This is as silly as taking the beast of the earth and the beast of the sea in Revelation 13 and spinning some farfetched notion that "King Kong" and "Godzilla" (respectively) will play a crucial role in End Times events.
I mean, c'mon.
This is as silly as saying that Creflo Dollar has maintained a vow of poverty; his last names "Dollar" y'all.
I mean, c'mon.
This is as silly as defending "King James only" in modern English.
I mean c'mon.
I gotta million of 'em.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/28/2008 12:33:52 PM
|
|
|
| |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
