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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/16/2008 2:10:56 AM
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Corne
Posts: 1937
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Melitac
If my teen were on a steep roof reading their Bible and they felt that was the only place they could do so....I think there might be deeper issues with my child to deal with instead of his or her reading the Word....
I'd be more worried about why they are on a roof. 
I am sorry if your child did this...
Thats very sad.
Your concern is sweet, but I meant it as an analogy. The dating prayer thing is safety advice, not a discouragment against prayer or seeking God.
Kids do daredevil things all the time. Good thing someone invented helmets.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/16/2008 2:13:09 AM
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Corne
Posts: 1937
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Melitac
corne,
Quit asking the same questions they already did and simply do the homework and go back and find the answers to said questions my friend.
Goodness! I already told you that I read the thread. All of it. A bit snarky.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/16/2008 2:29:12 AM
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Melitac
Posts: 156
Joined: 2/9/2008
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I am very sorry if you took any offense in any of my posts. Please understand that making points SEVERAL TIMES regarding the same exact point gets to be unnerving. Many people here do this very thing so as to
rib another poster in any given debate. But perhaps you are not aware of this tactic...
With this in mind, please do not redundantly ask again your recent questions. They have in fact, already been answered. Often several times each.
And so,
Life and death safety is what being on a steep roof is about. (called "common sense")
Using my common sense, I would worry MUCH less for my teenagers that pray with the opposite
sex than I would worry about them on a steep roof.
Still, your analogy is pointless.
Sorry. But it doesn't work. 
May I suggest you read my post #195.
I think this may clarify things for you.
Thanks.
< Message edited by Melitac -- 4/16/2008 2:38:25 AM >
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/16/2008 12:39:22 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 4924
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
So, please, let's get back to focusing on rational conversation without the vitriol. Vitriol is a complete waste of time and emotional energy. This thread has a specific focus ...
Thank you - I agree.
Melitac, we can all learn from each other without becoming angry. Being passionate about something is not a bad thing - and there is distinct difference between passion and anger. We all come from a different life experience, and have different views depending upon where we are in our walk with the Lord.
What is a struggle for one person may not be a struggle for another, but just because something isn't a struggle for me doesn't mean I can blow off someone who is struggling with it. TMeeks is quite passionate about this subject ... and this may or may not be something that you struggle with, and you may or may not agree with what he is saying, but his intentions are focused on those who are seeking answers and are desiring to please God.
Please stop convoluting the subject.
_____________________________
Sam
Though the sound overpowers, sing again, with your dear voice revealing a tone
Of some world far from ours, where music and moonlight and feeling are oneIJ
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/17/2008 1:58:17 AM
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Melitac
Posts: 156
Joined: 2/9/2008
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Focusing and TMeeks,
You are both correct.
I am very wrong.
Last night I had too much wine and posted in anger. I ask for your forgivness.
I have had a really rough week. My emotions have run wild. Though I know there is no excuse for my attitude, please believe me when I say that I am struggling right now.
I am trying to help my kids with the death of their father. He died last Thursday.
Please forgive my rash and sinful behavior.
Melissa~
Also, I am as well passionate about this topic.
Tm's posts rankled my nerves on many levels(his snarky little "laughy faces" are clear enough regarding his attitude). I hope and pray
that readers do not
make the mistake of assuming that TM is completely correct in his doctrine of thought just because I screwed things up on my personal level.
I pray that someone worthy of merit and more can stand for the truth which I believe in here in this thread. If not, oh well.
I can live with the fact that I tried, lied, repented and prayed.
Mel~
< Message edited by Melitac -- 4/17/2008 2:10:15 AM >
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/17/2008 7:25:31 AM
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doer
Posts: 2626
Joined: 4/13/2005
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sometimes prayer is all I have..... don't have extra money to give, don't have a witty comment, don't have the right verse to share, don't have the right psychologically sound advice to give, no place to go.
a "date" without pray can be perceived as one in which the Lord is not invited on.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/17/2008 8:01:52 AM
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Focusing
Posts: 4924
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(((Melitac)))
I am sorry to hear what you are going through.
You and your children are being lifted in prayer.
_____________________________
Sam
Though the sound overpowers, sing again, with your dear voice revealing a tone
Of some world far from ours, where music and moonlight and feeling are oneIJ
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/17/2008 8:55:30 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1392
Joined: 1/27/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doer
a "date" without pray can be perceived as one in which the Lord is not invited on.
What we don't have, since we don't have the entire chapter of the book is the entire explanation that the writer gave to support their position. And, we've not really explored the topic in its true depth even though we have 9 pages of posts. Most are summations that simply say "praying is on a date is good" or "praying on a date is bad" But, these summaries fail to explore the nuances of all the combinations of age, dating and praying.
For age, we have 15 - 90. And that is a wide range when it comes to emotional maturity and hormone activity. We also have to factor in spiritual maturity.
For dating, we have church events, public parks, movies, sitting alone in a car... etc.
For praying we have short prayers for safety, prayers asking for God's leading and passionate prayers for the relationship to deepen... etc.
Each of these elements, depending on the nature
So, we can't just say 'date' and 'pray' without qualifying it by looking at the actual combination of age, dating and type of prayer being considered.
In general I don't see anything risky, emotionally, with a short prayer for any couple as they begin the date if the prayer is asking something such as "Lord, be with us this evening as we travel. Help us to be all that you want us to be."
It is at the end of the date, as the evening has been played out. Suppose they had gone to a high school dance, the music was romantic, the couple looks wonderful, and the couple is in a vulnerable position. And, the prayer focuses on their love for each other and asking God to increase that love. This has some risk.
But, probably the MOST risky situation is when the we have young people who feel that no one understands them. One ofr both of them is in emotional pain with feelings of rejection from their parents and the pair comes to see each other as 'their whole world'. I've taught many Christian young people in this position of emotional vulnerability. I would stake my life on the fact that if the girl on the date is in this state and the boy on the date feels that he is the one that can bring happiness to her, the prayers they end up praying are going to be aimed at increasing the bonding of the couple... because they will be so self-absorbed. And, these are the ones that are mostly likely to be praying alone in a parked car or some other remote place. These are the ones most at risk.
quote:
sometimes prayer is all I have..... don't have extra money to give, don't have a witty comment, don't have the right verse to share, don't have the right psychologically sound advice to give, no place to go.
By this do you mean on a date? Or, in a general sense?
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/17/2008 9:22:49 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1392
Joined: 1/27/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Melitac
Focusing and TMeeks,
Please forgive my rash and sinful behavior.
Melissa~
Melissa, it is very easy, especially when life is shattering all around us off the forums, to be extra sensitive and say things we don't mean to say. So, I understand and forgive.
It's so important to me for you to know that I was never, at any time, angry with you. I just don't take anything said on a forum personally. That's not say that in the distant past that I didn't; but, having done this since the old pre-internet CompuServe days I've learned that those with whom we can have the most heated exchanges often become those with whom we have the sweetest exchanges and I expect that of us.
Every post is a past post. Once it's written, it slides back into the past and has nothing to do with our future as it relates to being fellow posters.
For my part, sometimes standing my ground can get to the point where it most resembles the attitude of a donkey. And, I ask your forgiveness for that.
quote:
Also, I am as well passionate about this topic.
Tm's posts rankled my nerves on many levels(his snarky little "laughy faces" are clear enough regarding his attitude).
And, it's really difficult to see by the words that people type, the emotions behind it, and even the emoticons may not communicate our real intensions because we are limited in our choices. I try to use emoticons that are smiling or laughing to try to communicate that I'm not angry. And, they can communicate something different from which I've intended them. Please don't take these as anything but attempting to indicate positive rather than negative emotions.
I, too, am very sorry that you are going through a rough time right now. As far as I'm concerned, everything is well behind both of us. Jesus loves you. Jesus loves me. And, he calls us to love each other. 
quote:
I hope and pray that readers do not make the mistake of assuming that TM is completely correct in his doctrine of thought just because I screwed things up on my personal level.
I pray that someone worthy of merit and more can stand for the truth which I believe in here in this thread. Mel~
And, that is perfectly right to do if you feel I am in error. In fact, I expect it and welcome it. The goal in any of these discussions is the TRUTH and sometimes getting there takes a lot of give and take and challenging each other to make our positions plain. A thread should also run long enough so that any misunderstanding of positions can be cleared up.
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 4/17/2008 9:33:17 AM >
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/17/2008 10:04:39 AM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 2961
Joined: 1/25/2008
From: NeverNeverLand
Status: online
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A while back a friend of mine mentioned some advice her pastor gave her during marriage counseling. He said sex was great after a strong, in depth prayer time or even worship service. He even recommended it. He said the power of the Holy Spirit are the ties that keep people together. Mind you this was mentioned to me in passing once, but it dd stick in my mind.
After hearing this I had to think about it. If prayer is that strong, and that moving in a married couple where it's recommended to have sex aftewards, then what right do I have to pray with someone I'm not married to?
I think the point being made is not that people shouldn't pray together. However if we are to be as pure as possible (mind, body and spirit) then any removal of temptation is always a good thing. If you look around the forums you will constantly see women posting about how they love and admire their men so much more when they take the lead and guide them through prayer and scripture. Single women seek that in a man. A true woman of God wants to be submissive not only to her Father, but to her husband who is to love her as Christ loves the church. So anytime we are put in a role where the man takes the lead, then it 'elevates' that man to levels getting closer and closer to 'husband' level.
I'm all for prayer with a mate, but not until after clear cut, boundaries have been made along with possible accountability partners (outside of the dating relationship). No offense to teenagers, but having been one and working with them, and getting ready to raise one, I do know that those boundaries can be overlooked or crossed extremely easily so again, why put yourself in a situation that you aren't sure you can handle?
_____________________________
Dangerous When Hyper
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 4/17/2008 8:30:43 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1392
Joined: 1/27/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessGiselle
I'm all for prayer with a mate, but not until after clear cut, boundaries have been made along with possible accountability partners (outside of the dating relationship). No offense to teenagers, but having been one and working with them, and getting ready to raise one, I do know that those boundaries can be overlooked or crossed extremely easily so again, why put yourself in a situation that you aren't sure you can handle?
Thanks PrincessGiselle,
In looking back over the thread, it appears that we take 'prayer' at face value and always God honoring. But, in James 4:3 we read that even in the early church people were missusing prayer.
James 4:3
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Back in the 1970s I was one very few people that had video tape. And, about the same time the Jesus People movement was beginning to unfold. I was fascinated in the phenominon and spent a lot of time getting to know various groups and video taping aspects of their group. The one characteristic that stick with me is chaos. The movement grew so fast that there was very little organization and many self-styled leaders emerged that should not have emerged. Prayer was actually used as a tool of discipline by some of these leaders. I heard it myself and I saw the negative results.
I kid you not that one such leader was found to have his own interpretation of 'laying on of hands' as he 'prayed' with young ladies in the group. Fortunately, he did stay around too long. But, these experiences of new believers in utter chaos has definitely made me very cautious about accepting, what should be very positive actions, at face value. I know that many wolves are among the sheep and know exactly how to pervert the good God wants into bad.
James knew it too and pointed it out in the above verses. There were those that thought prayer was to get whatever they wanted and NOT to praise their Savior. And, Paul ran into it too. Remember, this was written to people claiming to be Christians and they supposedly were lead to Jesus by an Apostle with much greater powers of perception than me!
2 Timothy 3:6
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
Not all that claim to be Christian are Christians and that also has to be factored into any advice we give to young people.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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