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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 4/23/2008 11:31:01 AM
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NoShow
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I know many people (serious lifters) that swear by glutamine. Keep in mind that "stress" of any sort can trigger your immune system, thus increasing your requirement for glutamine. So it's not that unrealistic for one to have a deficit of.
How come you do military press, before chest press? Most often the order is switched. Same with Curls followed by pulldowns, usually it's the other way around.
A regular deadlift, you squat down (bend your legs) on each rep.
Regular ( http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBDeadlift.html )
Stiff\Straight Leg ( http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Hamstrings/BBStraightLegDeadlift.html )
< Message edited by NoShow -- 4/23/2008 11:46:50 AM >
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 4/23/2008 4:55:01 PM
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csl7037
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oooh, thanks for those links!! I like that site. I'm doing the workout laid out here. I don't know if there's a rationale behind the order these exercises are in but I assume so. It's a little different than what I'm used to but I think I lik it.
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 4/23/2008 6:15:25 PM
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NoShow
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
oooh, thanks for those links!! I like that site. I'm doing the workout laid out here. I don't know if there's a rationale behind the order these exercises are in but I assume so. It's a little different than what I'm used to but I think I lik it.
According to that link, you were suppose to do the Pulldowns before the Curls.
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 4/23/2008 6:19:27 PM
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NoShow
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I can see how for a female, shoulders would take priority over "chest", when it comes to training.
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 4/23/2008 8:46:20 PM
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csl7037
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You know what, I typed that wrong above. It was A1 Military press, A2 chest supported row, B1 chest press, B2 supinated grip pull down, C1 incline curls, C2 tricep pushdowns, and D1 leg raises.
What I actually did today was A1, B1, B2, C1, C2, D1, A2 I think. Two times I headed for the machine I wanted (for rows) but someone was camped out at it...chatting with someone and not really doing much. :-(
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 4/24/2008 4:05:21 AM
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Konstantinos
Posts: 8144
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quote:
I feel like I'm eating constantly and choking it down. I think I've been averaging 1500 calories
haha really? its not all that rare for me to have more than 1500 in just one meal, especially post workout. rice, milk, burgers, fruit usually go way over 1500 cals.
quote:
Regular ( http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBDeadlift.html )
Stiff\Straight Leg ( http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Hamstrings/BBStraightLegDeadlift.html )
uhm ok, i never saw a straight leg deadlift, but if you do it like that arent you going to get injured? his back totally rounds
plus im kinda scared of this cause my back seems to round with high weights on deadlifts though i always try for regular ones. next time i deadlift im gonna try something new i heard of lately. basically it seems the deadlift is pretty much the same as the pull of the clean in a clean and jerk. except the grip is different. i heard i should just push my legs till the bar passes my knees(first pull). usually in a deadlift since its pretty hard and if you dont use full acceleration during the whole part of the lift you will lose the last rep or the near 1RM weight, i usually just tried to push hips forward, push back backwards, and push legs inwards alltogether without really giving any priority to any of them so it ends up getting my legs up too quick and my back rounds.
i guess that partially cause my back is much stronger than my legs since i squat 125 and am close to deadlifting 180kgs
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 4/24/2008 8:41:20 AM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Konstantinos
uhm ok, i never saw a straight leg deadlift, but if you do it like that arent you going to get injured? his back totally rounds
In that video it absolutely does. What I do, and what I've always been taught to do, it keep the back as flat as possible - I always do these in a mirror where I can constantly check that form. And I don't lower the bar past mid-shin, really - he's basically doing a forward fold so rounding his back is inevitable. That can't be good.
Maybe the stiff leg thing is more common in women's gyms/programs (which is usual not a good sign) and with lower weight. I did the one set of 15 with about 90 pounds last week and that was brutal - in a good way, I think. This workout I'm doing right now has both deadlifts and the stiff-leg variety in two separate workouts. But it was put together by a woman for women.
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 4/24/2008 9:28:14 AM
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HisCovenant
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The problem I saw with his back was as he lifted he arched as he brought the weight to his waist and should have controlled the motion better than "throwing his back into it.". What's wrong with bringing the weight below midshin? I usually take it to the floor with a straight back the entire time.
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 4/24/2008 10:01:46 AM
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csl7037
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If you can do it.... I just looked in the mirror, and I have super long arms, but I can't go past mid-shin or so without the lower back arching inevitably. Maybe if you've got big plates on the bar so that you're getting the weight to the floor but you hands are really not reaching that far is the difference. Forget a deadlift, if a person goes into a forward fold the back has to round. In the video, the guy is standing on a bench so that he's getting the bar all the way to the top of his toes before the plates hit the floor. And then he has to use his back pulling it all the way back up. There's no way that can be good.
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 4/24/2008 10:22:53 AM
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Konstantinos
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in my gym there are these things that come in pieces.. kinda like a puzzle's pieces thats used so that the bar wont make alot of noise when it hits the floor. i usually use 2 on both end of the barbell when i deadlift. use more if you have to IMO to get the bar up.
btw 5' 2" doesnt matter at all. its the proportions that do
for me, when i deadlift the bar reaches a bit above the middle inbetween my waist and top of the kneecap on my legs.
plus you could try to work it up to 135 pounds. i bet you both His and Csl could reach that (im guessing its around 1 times bodyweight) pretty fast. when i started deadlifting i could do around 1.2 times bw. but that was for a max single
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 4/24/2008 10:31:40 AM
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NoShow
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There's really not any "one correct way" to do the movement. Whether you're doing stiff-leg, Romanian, Keystone...they're all variations of the movement in the link.
Usually, the two key areas that the "differences" lie in are the lateral movement (backwards) of the hips and the positioning of the lower back.
In regards to the former, one can restrict the hips from moving back and one will primarily feel the movement in the lower back, with minimal hamstring. If you focusing on lowering the bar by pushing your hips backwards, you'll feel the movement a lot more in the hamstrings. Or you can allow hip movement without it being excessive, so somewhere in the middle, like he's doing in the link.
In regards to the lower back, one can focusing on only lowering the bar to the point you can no longer keep your back flat. Performing it this way requires the movement to be at the "hips". Or one can do the movement by bending at their waist thus rounding their back from the get go.
The link says, "...After hips can no longer flex, bend waist as bar approaches top of feet...."; well bending the waist is the same as rounding the (lower) back. So it's bascially saying to lower with a flat back, until you can no longer keep your back flat, then round your back to go lower. Which is incorporating both back focuses.
How far the bar goes down will vary based on one's flexibility and choice of form. The excessive hips backward method will put you in a position that restricts how low you can go. As will the keeping the back flat method. So depending on which "combination" you choice, can change your ROM.
I think all variations do have their place. I tend to rotate which form I'm using to add variety (usually stick with one form for 3-6 weeks, before changing). If new to a form, just start light and work your way up in weight. After awhile, you'll know your poundage "ratios" between combinations.
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 4/24/2008 10:39:05 AM
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NoShow
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Konstantinos
uhm ok, i never saw a straight leg deadlift, but if you do it like that arent you going to get injured? his back totally rounds
It's a way to strength ones lower back. As long as you pay attention to your form, you can do the movement without injurying yourself. It's usually not done as a max or near max attempt movement.
quote:
next time i deadlift im gonna try something new i heard of lately. basically it seems the deadlift is pretty much the same as the pull of the clean in a clean and jerk. except the grip is different. i heard i should just push my legs till the bar passes my knees(first pull).
That's one of the little "tricks" of the movement. Often referred to as "breaking the weight off of the ground\platform". You set up, initially push with your legs, keeping your (lower) back in the same "position" it was at set up.
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 5/5/2008 11:25:15 AM
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Konstantinos
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ok this needs a bump since i went again today since im back in my city, patra. i was visiting my parents in thessaloniki(yes the one from the bible) and all of the gyms i went to annoyed the heck out of me with their "fitness" center mentality.
so anyway back now heres what i posted in tnation
squats.. uh.. i dont remember haha i think i couldnt do 120kgs though, i did some 115 i think. anyway my legs are gonna be sore like a lot but im gonna eat tons of protein to get over it quick and get back to it
i also did some .. i dont know if they even were quarter squats.. but with 190kgs set the pins right so that i wouldnt die. i did it to get my shoulders used to more weight so less doesnt feel so heavy.
also deadlifted 177.5 kgs new record! to full lockout. next time 180 i hope will happen. i need to get my squat up though so that i dont get my back injured and using more leg drive will help with that. 125kg squat should be more like 145-150 for a 180kg deadlift
did some overhead presses, but since im shakey as heck with them i then again thought i'd do the same like the quarter squats. loaded it up and held the bar in lockout with 100kgs. at least now i know my arms could maybe make a 100kg jerk. kinda cool haha.
im gonna keep doing these a bit. like once every couple weeks or something. lets see if they'll help.
oh i also could do a chin up despite the fact that ive like.. gained a lot of weight. wonder how that happened but anyway. the chin up. not the weight. haha
also set some goals for my birthday being 6th july .
i hope to get a 200kg deadlift.
i hope to get my squat to 150kgs.
overhead press.. maybe 80kg.
front squat around 120-130.
that would be the best birthday gift ive ever gotten
< Message edited by Konstantinos -- 5/5/2008 11:32:32 AM >
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 5/5/2008 2:13:24 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Konstantinos
also set some goals for my birthday being 6th july .
i hope to get a 200kg deadlift.
i hope to get my squat to 150kgs.
overhead press.. maybe 80kg.
front squat around 120-130.
that would be the best birthday gift ive ever gotten
Great goals - kg confuse me but it's awesome to have something to push yourself toward. I'd love to get ONE chinup someday! I'm still at it, in case you were worried I'd dropped off the planet. I did a great workout Friday - pushups, press, pulldowns, curls, etc (gotta get the kids in a few or I'd post numbers). But then I went and helped people move stuff into our new church - finally got in the new building this weekend! But I have no idea what I was thinking. I ached all over by the time I left so tried to rest up this weekend. Made my fun little class today. Tomorrow I have a meeting so probably will have to make it an off day. I could squeeze in a workout but I just got a job to do a yoga class on Thursday so I should take that time to just get my head together for the class. It's just to sub this week but it's a new gym where I'd love to pick up more classes (need some $$!!).
Since it's Monday, I measured today. Down another 1/2" which brings me to about 1" in the last 3 weeks. I averaged 1317 calories last week at 49% protein, 25% carbs and 27% fat. I burned about 1450 in the gym last week. So that's OK. But I'm thinking of a short term (maybe not even the whole 4 weeks) Velocity Diet. Konstantinos, how much have you read about that? I posted t-nation a question and Shug answered me himself. Since I need to pick up more classes, not less, so can't just cut out cardio, he suggested adding calories and BCAA's - which I've never taken before. But dh will just never go along with what is basically a liquid diet. So I'm thinking modification to the 1 meal/day model. I know I'd get BLASTED on t-nation but here's what I'm thinking....
Off Days (Sunday): 5 shakes, 1 meal (ie chicken, sweet potato, broccoli) for 1120 calories at 56%P/13%C/31%F
Moderate days (just lifting or just one class): 4 shakes, 2 meals (ie above plus cottage cheese & pineapple) for 1400 calories at 49%P/26%C/26%F
Heavy days (lifting and a class): 4 shakes, 2 meals, and extra breakfast (half a serving of pancakes made with oats, cottage cheese, and egg whites) for 1560 calories at 52%P/25%C/23%F
...see any majore pitfalls with that plan? I know I keep changing things but what I was doing was working pretty well. I'd just love to kick it up another notch.
The worst thing is I've got to make a birthday cake for tomorrow - that's just wrong! Last week when I was helping move at the church, they asked ME to go on a pizza run!! Plus, they didn't have the microwave hooked up for me to heat MY lunch - it's got to be a conspiracy. I'm tough, I can take it. If someone put a diet coke in front of me right now, I'd totaly cave, though.
BTW, I weighed at the gym today - 127.5 lbs. Not horrible. But if I could lose 10 lbs of fat and get 5 more lbs of muscle, I'd be where I've been trying to be for forever!
< Message edited by csl7037 -- 5/5/2008 2:21:45 PM >
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 5/5/2008 2:32:39 PM
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Konstantinos
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dont sweat it too much. ive never read the V diet, since its gonna be a while before i cut down again. if you wanna do it because you are overthinking it, dont. if you want to cause you think it may be fun to try, go ahead. liquids only dont think would play a role, but im thinking you'll be hungry all the time.. and i wonder how you get in everything you need with just liquids?
i dont know what BCAA's are or do yet. i dont have a credit card so i havent really looked into tnation's supplements yet. but i think ill get one soon cause ive been interested to get some supplements other than whey and multivitamin plus they are heck of a lot cheaper if i buy them from there than from here. (5 lbs of whey here cost 85 euros... thats over 120 dollars!. the best kind of whey that tnation has costs less, and the one i get here is.. healthy.. but not the best) so im gonna look at them someday and ask maybe a few questions cause the last time i looked at them i got kinda confused (they have energy drinks or something? but they also have CNS booster thingies? should i take both? there is also spike or soemthing to help with recovery, but theres also whey protein? im kinda confused)
anyway. like you learn asa noob in tnation. if it works, stick with it. and it seems to be working so far.
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 5/6/2008 10:17:26 AM
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NoShow
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Thing about the V-Diet is once you alter\substitute any of the products\supplements, it all of a sudden becomes "not the V-Diet".
What you described is basically a meal-replacement diet, which is very similar to diets such as Slim Fast or MetRx. Which is acutally a "sound" concept in that you're using the drinks to "control" caloric intake.
There's nothing magical about any of them, they simply take out decision making in food choice. You probably get a little kick up from the V due to some of the supplements.
I know dozen of people that have used the V, exactly as prescribed, and though they all lost the expected weight, I believe every one of them eventually put the weight back on. And only one of them could make it through the V a second time.
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 5/6/2008 1:11:25 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NoShow
Thing about the V-Diet is once you alter\substitute any of the products\supplements, it all of a sudden becomes "not the V-Diet".
And some people get pretty defensive or ugly about any talk of modification. I was thinking it's similar to the old slim fast as well (which probably still works the same I guess) just not with something that's mostly sugar. On the supplements, I'm a little gunshy. I'm taking the glutamin, MSM/Chondroiton/Glucosamine, and fish oil. I might try the BCAAs. I've done Hot Rox and Lipo 6 before and just don't think they do anything. I've also just recently gone off diet cokes and caffeine was only one reason, not even the main reason, but I just don't think my body needs that jolt from something else either.
The flax seed in the shakes that he stipulates in V-Diet . . . NASTY! I'm not at all sure I can do that. We'll see.
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 5/6/2008 1:52:02 PM
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NoShow
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Dave Draper does a three day tuna and water diet, twice a year to pull his diet back on track. I believe his wife Laree, does it more often, because she's not as disciplined as Dave and would be a lot more off track than him after six months. Basically, what it is, all one consumes for three days is tuna and water (and a fiber supplement if needed). The rul of thumb is 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. The smaller, six ounce cans have 13-15 grams of protein per serving with two and a half servings per can. So someone weighing 150lbs can have (150 divided by 14 times 2.5) four and a quarter cans per day and all the water they want. Trust me, by day three you don't even want to eat your last allowable can.
The diet is mostly psychological, in that after 72 hours of only-tuna consumption, anything else tastes like tiramisu. So you can go to a super clean diet and it seems fantastic.
The Infamous NoShow verision is that every three days, you add one more item to your "menu", alternating between protein sources and vegetables (or fruit). So as an example, I would do something like this:
1-3: tuna
4-6: tuna and broccoli
7-9: tuna, broc and chicken
10-12: tuna, broc, chicken and tomatoes
13-15: tuna, broc, chicken, tomatoes and eggs
16-18: tuna, broc, chicken, tomatoes, eggs and lettuce
19-21: tuna, broc, chicken, tomatoes, eggs, lettuce and salmon
and so on and so on. I can get to 30 days or more before I crack and have to eat some form of starch.
I can usually keep my diet fairly clean for 3,4,5 months, before I realize that I'm more off-track, then on and need to start back at it.
If tuna is just to grueling, you can do the same thing, but start with chicken. I started with salmon once, but it's not much better than starting with tuna. With tuna, once you make it through the first three days, you're pretty much up for any challenge.
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 5/6/2008 1:59:48 PM
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Konstantinos
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why do you even have such a strict diet? i mean.. in terms of thinking you are a powerlifter you need a not so low body fat percentage to keep your strength and energy high right? i heard most people that go under 12% start to lose strength
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 5/6/2008 2:12:01 PM
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NoShow
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Primarily to clean up my diet, when it starts going off-track. It's so easy to allow anything, because "I'm a strength athlete"; but if I leave it unchecked, I'll often allow to much in. I pretty much have a "anything-is-okay-it's-about-moderation" attitude with diet. When I start abusing the "moderation" line, I go strict as a form of self-discipline.
Unlike you (yet), I have age working against me, which is less forgiving when I error.
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 5/6/2008 2:16:35 PM
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Konstantinos
Posts: 8144
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oh. gotcha.
yeah i pretty much down almost anything. usually i try to eat whats healthy and if im sure i can get all of them in, then i may eat whatever else if i feel like it. may get some more fat that way but i dont mind cutting down what? 1 more month than i normally would?
i mean.. i made a cut before i started, and now i know twice as many things about how to do it and will have twice as fast results
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I'm best friends with the boogie man.
I'm a beast.
I'm a HH.
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 5/6/2008 6:35:45 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 314
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Konstantinos
oh. gotcha.
yeah i pretty much down almost anything. usually i try to eat whats healthy and if im sure i can get all of them in, then i may eat whatever else if i feel like it. may get some more fat that way but i dont mind cutting down what? 1 more month than i normally would?
Ahh, to be young again - and a guy! 
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 5/7/2008 4:04:07 AM
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Konstantinos
Posts: 8144
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From: Greece Thessaloniki
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you wish you were a guy?
hahaha sometimes i wondered what it would be like to be a girl
ever since i started weightlifting i stopped caring hahahaha
_____________________________
I'm best friends with the boogie man.
I'm a beast.
I'm a HH.
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RE: Any serious weight lifters here? - 5/9/2008 9:37:23 AM
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Konstantinos
Posts: 8144
Joined: 4/14/2005
From: Greece Thessaloniki
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i cant believe im still sore.
since monday.. now friday im just now able to actually lock out my knees. my quads are STILL sore. haha. anyway, tomorrow i bet they'll still be sore somewhat but im going anyway.
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I'm a HH.
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); therefore, the bar is probably 3 inches off the floor due to the 10 lb weights and my arms aren't especially long. I'm 5'2", so they are pretty average to slightly short. I'll watch myself more closely. Maybe I am rounding and not paying attention. I don't want to injure myself.