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Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited?
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Total Votes : 64
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(last vote on : 4/24/2008 5:00:34 PM)
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/7/2008 7:16:42 AM
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Closie
Posts: 391
Joined: 4/14/2005
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I'm not excited about him coming but I'm excited that others are. I know three people who are going to the service in New York and they are so excited. I'm happy for them and can't wait to hear about it. Lurker - hope you have a great time and that you find what you're looking for there.
I think that it's fine to go hear someone preach. Billy Graham was going to be speaking in my hometown around my mother's due date. She commented to her doctor that she wanted to go see him. The doctor said that he was going and told her where his seat would try to sit in case she went into labor (it was before cell phones and pagers). The doctor was Jewish and not considering conversion. He said he loved Graham's message of love and hope. He admired him and wanted to hear him speak.
I've gone to see Tony Evans and would have loved to have heard Graham in person. Off the top of my head though, I can't think of anyone else that I'd like to hear.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/7/2008 11:09:19 AM
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Zhi
Posts: 656
Joined: 7/31/2007
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quote:
True, but there's something different about Francis. Hard to explain. And I do think that the Reverend Billy Graham is a shining example of a Protestant saint. But seeing the example of Francis, and the thousands of other saints doing similar things is powerful.
Francis of Assissi was a wonderful Christian, no doubt about it... but I can come up with a list of people who have been sainted (and some have had that status revoked) which weren't exactly models of moral character either.
quote:
I know several married priests. That's not a 100% rule, it's a discipline and can be changed. But I think it's a good rule and it has plenty of scriptural precedent. After all, was Jesus married? Or Paul? There's actually considerable scriptural support for all the other questions you have. Most of which we have one stop threads for. You might want to check them out. Even if you don't agree with the Catholic interpretation, you might see that we're not just pulling things out of thin air. :)
Peter was married though (obviously, since Jesus healed his mother in law), and isn't he supposed to be the origin of the papal line? As for Paul, he says it's also good to be married, though he isn't.
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He didn't have much choice with being a member of the Hitler youth. And he didn't care much for being drafted either but again, he didn't have a choice. As far as being invalid, you must understand what we Catholics and Orthodox believe regarding the term "Church". We hold the Eucharist to be the center of Christian worship. After all, we believe the Eucharist to be the literal Body and Blood of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus. (There's a one stop thread going over this too btw). Unfortunately, due to human failings, Christianity is not united anymore. And many communities of Christians don't believe the Eucharist to be the literal presence of Jesus. But we still recognize them as our beloved brothers in Christ, and we see that the Holy Spirit is indeed moving through them and we rejoice in their fervor and devotion to Jesus. But without the Eucharist, we feel that they're incomplete. I don't know if I'd personally use the word invalid, looking back in my past I don't think my old churches were invalid. But I do feel that they were missing out on the joy that is the Eucharist.
There is always a choice. To say there was no choice is a terrible insult against the many people who DID refuse to answer the draft and who actively resisted the Nazis.
But, frankly, that's not my major complaint against Benedict. My major complaint would be his handling of and involvement in the coverup of child molestation by priests (for which he has been actively named in lawsuits, though he was granted immunity from the Justice Department due to his status as a head of state). I do not see how anyone truly walking God's path, much less claiming to be a direct apostolic successor of Peter, would be capable of such a thing.
I guess what bothers me most about the Catholic church is how they cling to often destructive traditions at the cost of the Scripture, morality, and innocent lives. Whether it's the debauchery of historical Popes, the invention of new traditions (like selling papal dispensations) for wealth and power, the perpetuation of idolatry by offering prayers to people who are not God, or the startlingly current reshuffling of priests to cover up molestation of children, I simply cannot accept that such a corrupt and scripturally unsound group would be considered by Jesus or Peter to be their de facto and sole "true church". To me, the true church has nothing to do with what label is over the door or what language your service is in or what songs you sing while you're there... it has to do with trust in Jesus as Savior.
After all, had the Catholic church not been so spiritually and morally bankrupt, Protestantism would never have started. A lot has been fixed since then, yes, but not nearly enough.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/7/2008 3:51:19 PM
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happyhippie
Posts: 45
Joined: 4/7/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Well, for me it started when I tried to save a friend from "Romanism." Unfortunately (or rather fortunately) my friend pointed out that I was fighting a version of Catholicism that existed only in the fevered imagination of Jack Chick, Lorraine Boettner and others. But that the REAL Catholic faith was quite different from what I thought it was. They had quite a few strong arguments that blew my feeble attempts out of the water. I didn't decide then, but I realized that perhaps I could consider Catholics Christians. The final step to really deciding to become Catholic came about when I learned about a little man from Assisi named Francis. Suffice it to say, his example of staying faithful to the Church, and his shining devotion to living in the imitation of Christ moved me more than thousands of pages of academic and historical works. While those do help me reaffirm my choice to become Catholic, it was St. Francis of Assisi who by taking the words of Our Lord to heart, helped me realize that I had to become a member of the Church that had brought him forth into the world.
These ideas are also the minds of several of my friends who are ex-catholic. They have step by step explained and refuted the teachings of praying to dead people, ancestor worship, the pope being Christ on Earth, the infallibility of the pope, etc. Francis was a wonderful Christian in spite of the catholic church.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/7/2008 4:41:22 PM
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Lurker
Posts: 746
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Silver Spring, MD
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: happyhippie
quote:
Well, for me it started when I tried to save a friend from "Romanism." Unfortunately (or rather fortunately) my friend pointed out that I was fighting a version of Catholicism that existed only in the fevered imagination of Jack Chick, Lorraine Boettner and others. But that the REAL Catholic faith was quite different from what I thought it was. They had quite a few strong arguments that blew my feeble attempts out of the water. I didn't decide then, but I realized that perhaps I could consider Catholics Christians. The final step to really deciding to become Catholic came about when I learned about a little man from Assisi named Francis. Suffice it to say, his example of staying faithful to the Church, and his shining devotion to living in the imitation of Christ moved me more than thousands of pages of academic and historical works. While those do help me reaffirm my choice to become Catholic, it was St. Francis of Assisi who by taking the words of Our Lord to heart, helped me realize that I had to become a member of the Church that had brought him forth into the world.
These ideas are also the minds of several of my friends who are ex-catholic. They have step by step explained and refuted the teachings of praying to dead people, ancestor worship, the pope being Christ on Earth, the infallibility of the pope, etc. Francis was a wonderful Christian in spite of the catholic church.
That's nice. But I've seen the opposite. I won't go into details as we have plenty of one stop threads. But I have found that there's plenty of evidence scripturally for asking the saints to intercede for us, the Pope being the Vicar of Christ, papal infalliability, etc. And it's been very carefully explained step by step by former Protestants (and a few Atheists too).
But I do agree, St. Francis of Assisi is an awesome Christian. I ask him to pray for me quite often. :D
_____________________________
Do not be afraid of Christ! He takes nothing away, and he gives you everything. When we give ourselves to him, we receive a hundredfold in return. Yes, open, open wide the doors to Christ—and you will find true life.
-Pope Benedict XVI
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/7/2008 4:47:43 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10911
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
That's nice. But I've seen the opposite. I won't go into details as we have plenty of one stop threads. But I have found that there's plenty of evidence scripturally for asking the saints to intercede for us, the Pope being the Vicar of Christ, papal infalliability, etc. And it's been very carefully explained step by step by former Protestants (and a few Atheists too).
But I do agree, St. Francis of Assisi is an awesome Christian. I ask him to pray for me quite often. :D So as not to take this thread further away from the OP would you please point me in the direction of where I can find the post number in one of the one-stops that shows the scripture that points to any other than Jesus as being our intercessor?
_____________________________
"I think we cannot be blown off course by the fluctuations of the public opinion polls."
Dead Eye Dick Cheney
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/7/2008 5:51:54 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1107
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lurker
I'm going! I got a ticket to see the Papal Mass! :D
Ticketmaster?
In all seriousness, how did you get them?
quote:
Well, for me it started when I tried to save a friend from "Romanism." Unfortunately (or rather fortunately) my friend pointed out that I was fighting a version of Catholicism that existed only in the fevered imagination of Jack Chick, Lorraine Boettner and others. But that the REAL Catholic faith was quite different from what I thought it was. They had quite a few strong arguments that blew my feeble attempts out of the water. I didn't decide then, but I realized that perhaps I could consider Catholics Christians. The final step to really deciding to become Catholic came about when I learned about a little man from Assisi named Francis. Suffice it to say, his example of staying faithful to the Church, and his shining devotion to living in the imitation of Christ moved me more than thousands of pages of academic and historical works. While those do help me reaffirm my choice to become Catholic, it was St. Francis of Assisi who by taking the words of Our Lord to heart, helped me realize that I had to become a member of the Church that had brought him forth into the world.
Actually, my Mom's Catholic- and I'm pretty sure she's a born-again Christian, too. Still, the rest of my Reformed family likes to joke about Catholics.
Do you know why she's so obsessed with the fact that Emperor Palpatine is paying the US a visit?
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/7/2008 6:46:43 PM
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happyhippie
Posts: 45
Joined: 4/7/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
That's nice. But I've seen the opposite. I won't go into details as we have plenty of one stop threads. But I have found that there's plenty of evidence scripturally for asking the saints to intercede for us, the Pope being the Vicar of Christ, papal infalliability, etc. And it's been very carefully explained step by step by former Protestants (and a few Atheists too).
But I do agree, St. Francis of Assisi is an awesome Christian. I ask him to pray for me quite often. :D So as not to take this thread further away from the OP would you please point me in the direction of where I can find the post number in one of the one-stops that shows the scripture that points to any other than Jesus as being our intercessor?
Me too please
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/7/2008 8:16:28 PM
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Lurker
Posts: 746
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Silver Spring, MD
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lurker
I'm going! I got a ticket to see the Papal Mass! :D
Ticketmaster?
In all seriousness, how did you get them?
Well due to space limitations there's a limited number of tickets available from the Archdiocese. Each parish in the Archdiocese received a certain number of tickets. My parish got three and six people wanted them. So to be fair, Fr. Michael did a drawing to see who would get a ticket. I was lucky enough to get one. :)
quote:
quote:
Well, for me it started when I tried to save a friend from "Romanism." Unfortunately (or rather fortunately) my friend pointed out that I was fighting a version of Catholicism that existed only in the fevered imagination of Jack Chick, Lorraine Boettner and others. But that the REAL Catholic faith was quite different from what I thought it was. They had quite a few strong arguments that blew my feeble attempts out of the water. I didn't decide then, but I realized that perhaps I could consider Catholics Christians. The final step to really deciding to become Catholic came about when I learned about a little man from Assisi named Francis. Suffice it to say, his example of staying faithful to the Church, and his shining devotion to living in the imitation of Christ moved me more than thousands of pages of academic and historical works. While those do help me reaffirm my choice to become Catholic, it was St. Francis of Assisi who by taking the words of Our Lord to heart, helped me realize that I had to become a member of the Church that had brought him forth into the world.
Actually, my Mom's Catholic- and I'm pretty sure she's a born-again Christian, too. Still, the rest of my Reformed family likes to joke about Catholics.
Do you know why she's so obsessed with the fact that Emperor Palpatine is paying the US a visit?
Well Benedict is quite old, this may be his only trip here to the states. But he's such a great pope. His words truly express a wondrous love for Our Lord and beckon you to embrace Jesus fully like he has. :)
_____________________________
Do not be afraid of Christ! He takes nothing away, and he gives you everything. When we give ourselves to him, we receive a hundredfold in return. Yes, open, open wide the doors to Christ—and you will find true life.
-Pope Benedict XVI
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/7/2008 8:20:12 PM
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Lurker
Posts: 746
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Silver Spring, MD
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
That's nice. But I've seen the opposite. I won't go into details as we have plenty of one stop threads. But I have found that there's plenty of evidence scripturally for asking the saints to intercede for us, the Pope being the Vicar of Christ, papal infalliability, etc. And it's been very carefully explained step by step by former Protestants (and a few Atheists too).
But I do agree, St. Francis of Assisi is an awesome Christian. I ask him to pray for me quite often. :D So as not to take this thread further away from the OP would you please point me in the direction of where I can find the post number in one of the one-stops that shows the scripture that points to any other than Jesus as being our intercessor?
It would likely be in the thread called "Praying to the Saints and Mary?"
It's got quite a bit of spirited discussion. In fact, all of the various Catholic threads are found here: http://forums.christianity.com/Catholic_Discussion_Index/m_1642/mpage_1/tm.htm#1708
It's always nice to get new voices joined in the discussions. :)
_____________________________
Do not be afraid of Christ! He takes nothing away, and he gives you everything. When we give ourselves to him, we receive a hundredfold in return. Yes, open, open wide the doors to Christ—and you will find true life.
-Pope Benedict XVI
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/7/2008 10:22:57 PM
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cuddles
Posts: 62
Joined: 9/29/2005
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
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Congratulations Lurker - you will not be disappointed.
I attended a Papal Audience last year at the Vatican and it filled my heart with joy and gladness.
We were so close to the Pope as he was driven past we could have high fived him if it were not for his security guard.
He has such a sweet smile - even now just writing this is putting a smile on my face! (and I am a Prottie.)
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/7/2008 10:36:23 PM
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HisLamb26
Posts: 412
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline
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I saw Pope John Paul II when he came to Boston. I'll never forget that outdoor Mass in the pouring rain. It was a moving experience.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/8/2008 1:09:06 AM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 2979
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: Concord, CA
Status: offline
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I don't understand the excitement over standing in a large crowd just to see a man.
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Roberta
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/8/2008 8:14:29 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10911
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lurker
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
That's nice. But I've seen the opposite. I won't go into details as we have plenty of one stop threads. But I have found that there's plenty of evidence scripturally for asking the saints to intercede for us, the Pope being the Vicar of Christ, papal infalliability, etc. And it's been very carefully explained step by step by former Protestants (and a few Atheists too).
But I do agree, St. Francis of Assisi is an awesome Christian. I ask him to pray for me quite often. :D So as not to take this thread further away from the OP would you please point me in the direction of where I can find the post number in one of the one-stops that shows the scripture that points to any other than Jesus as being our intercessor?
It would likely be in the thread called "Praying to the Saints and Mary?"
It's got quite a bit of spirited discussion. In fact, all of the various Catholic threads are found here: http://forums.christianity.com/Catholic_Discussion_Index/m_1642/mpage_1/tm.htm#1708
It's always nice to get new voices joined in the discussions. :)
Actually I'm just looking for the verses that you are telling us about. What specific post in any thread shows the verses that the saints are our heavenly intercessors? Or you may post them here. if you wish.
_____________________________
"I think we cannot be blown off course by the fluctuations of the public opinion polls."
Dead Eye Dick Cheney
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/8/2008 9:12:55 AM
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Closie
Posts: 391
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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Is this thread about Catholism or the Pope's trip to the USA? Isn't there another forum where topics about denomination beliefs should be discussed?
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/8/2008 9:15:30 AM
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Closie
Posts: 391
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
I don't understand the excitement over standing in a large crowd just to see a man.
I've thought the same thing about Hannah Montana. But I've gotten all dressed up, stood in a crowd to watch a 2 minute horse race. So who am to talk?
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/8/2008 9:44:37 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10911
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Closie
Is this thread about Catholism or the Pope's trip to the USA? Isn't there another forum where topics about denomination beliefs should be discussed?
I'm sorry that it looks like I am trying to take this thread off topic. I'm not.
I don't expect an answer, there isn't one. But I can be PM'ed if one were to try to provide an answer.
So, this guy is coming to America eh? Is he going to see Hanna Montana? 
_____________________________
"I think we cannot be blown off course by the fluctuations of the public opinion polls."
Dead Eye Dick Cheney
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/8/2008 11:10:12 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1107
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
I think that the reasons behind the excitement are radically different. Your comparison is inadequate and erroneous. Anywho, betting on a race would be....
Actually, it's a celebrity event. Who knew that the actor who played Senator Palpatine in Star Wars was also a Priest?
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/8/2008 11:37:52 AM
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Closie
Posts: 391
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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Billy Graham used to fill stadiums. People drove hours to hear to him preach. You are within your right to look upon that with disdain. Simililary, the people who stand in line to hear the pope, Rev. Graham, Oprah, or the Beatles were within their right to do so. I choose to look at those have done it in the past and will do it in the future, without disdain.
I hope that those who go see the pope do it safely and return home to their families having gotten from the experience what the Holy Spirit wants them to get out of it. It's beyond me how a Christian could think otherwise but to each his/her own.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/8/2008 11:56:04 AM
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WesP
Posts: 1524
Joined: 11/28/2005
From: Where God needs me to be
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Closie
Billy Graham used to fill stadiums. People drove hours to hear to him preach. You are within your right to look upon that with disdain. Simililary, the people who stand in line to hear the pope, Rev. Graham, Oprah, or the Beatles were within their right to do so. I choose to look at those have done it in the past and will do it in the future, without disdain.
I hope that those who go see the pope do it safely and return home to their families having gotten from the experience what the Holy Spirit wants them to get out of it. It's beyond me how a Christian could think otherwise but to each his/her own.
If you are referring to my posts, then tell me where you see disdain (with the exception of Oprah's divine guidance  ). I agree totally with the statement I bolded in your post. If you are not directing this at me, then wonderful.
_____________________________
Peace,
Wes
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/8/2008 12:32:19 PM
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Lurker
Posts: 746
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Silver Spring, MD
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
I pointed you to the relevant thread. There's answers a plenty, but whether or not you agree with their interpretation is a different matter. :)
As far as the Pope seeing Hanna Montana, he might. Is she Catholic? Well, I asked for the verses, not the thread, but that's alright.
Does Miss Cyrus HAVE to be Catholic in order for the pope to see her? In fact, the only way might be for him to have a private audience with her. Tickets to the concerts are just about impossible to get, it almost takes a miracle!.
I was just thinking that if she was Catholic she might be trying to see the pope! :D
_____________________________
Do not be afraid of Christ! He takes nothing away, and he gives you everything. When we give ourselves to him, we receive a hundredfold in return. Yes, open, open wide the doors to Christ—and you will find true life.
-Pope Benedict XVI
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/8/2008 1:25:42 PM
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moon_mouse
Posts: 563
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lurker
But I do agree, St. Francis of Assisi is an awesome Christian. I ask him to pray for me quite often. :D
I was uncomfortable with praying to/with saints until I learned more about it. I'm still a Protestant, but I did ask Francis to pray for my chinchilla, Gretchen, when she was ill, since Francis cared so much for little creatures. Gretchen's pain eased and she passed peacefully, so perhaps it helped some. It was a comfort to me anyway.
Ironically, I'm a television producer, so the patron saint of my profession is one of Francis' proteges, Saint Clare.
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