RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited?

RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (Full Version)

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Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited?

Yes

20% (13)

71% (46)

Who?

7% (5)

Total Votes : 64

(last vote on : 4/24/2008 5:00:34 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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Lurker -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/8/2008 11:11:42 PM)
Here's the Pope's message to the USA prior to his visit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyaUNK0cgx4&feature=related And supposedly he'll be directly addressing the recent sexual abuse issues as well which is a relief to quite a few. :) I'm so excited to see the Pope! :D And I can really feel the Holy Spirit working through him, drawing me ever closer in devotion to Our Lord Jesus. :D Truly God is wonderfully loving to give us such great pope! :D

jbow -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/9/2008 9:05:19 AM)
Maybe if he start's to sell off the vatican gold and art and begin's to give the money back to the poor from whence it came, then I will be excited. Maybe if he come's out and teaches that Jesus finished work on the cross is singularly sufficient for remission of sin and sanctification and that there is nothing we can do other than believe then... I will be excited. Maybe if he say's that indulgences are baloney and always have been and there is no such place as purgatory... then I will be excited. Until then... nah. Really, I wish he were not coming to the States. J

Soxfan -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/9/2008 9:38:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jbow Maybe if he start's to sell off the vatican gold and art and begin's to give the money back to the poor from whence it came, then I will be excited. Maybe if he come's out and teaches that Jesus finished work on the cross is singularly sufficient for remission of sin and sanctification and that there is nothing we can do other than believe then... I will be excited. Maybe if he say's that indulgences are baloney and always have been and there is no such place as purgatory... then I will be excited. Until then... nah. Really, I wish he were not coming to the States. J Also, maybe if he would stop being the leader in a long line of leaders of the largest child exploitation ring in the world....

Lurker -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/9/2008 10:06:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jbow Maybe if he start's to sell off the vatican gold and art and begin's to give the money back to the poor from whence it came, then I will be excited. So you'd rather all that art be hidden away in private collections rather than available for the public to enjoy? quote: Maybe if he come's out and teaches that Jesus finished work on the cross is singularly sufficient for remission of sin and sanctification and that there is nothing we can do other than believe then... I will be excited. Uhm. Salvation is an ongoing process. It's in the scriptures. :) We are redeemed by His sacrifice, and we are called constantly to renew our baptismal vows via confession of our sins and penitence. quote: Maybe if he say's that indulgences are baloney and always have been and there is no such place as purgatory... then I will be excited. Why would he want to contradict scripture? quote: Until then... nah. Really, I wish he were not coming to the States. J Aww. Well, I for one am glad he's coming here. :)

Zhi -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/9/2008 11:34:48 AM)
quote: Why would he want to contradict scripture? You tell us. The word "purgatory" is nowhere in scripture. Even the thief on the cross, who had done absolutely nothing to earn his way out of purgatory, who managed to scrape into heaven by the skin of his teeth in a literal deathbed belief after a life of extreme depravity to the point of execution, was told that he would be dining that very night with Jesus in Heaven.

Lurker -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/9/2008 11:37:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zhi quote: Why would he want to contradict scripture? You tell us. The word "purgatory" is nowhere in scripture. Even the thief on the cross, who had done absolutely nothing to earn his way out of purgatory, who managed to scrape into heaven by the skin of his teeth in a literal deathbed belief after a life of extreme depravity to the point of execution, was told that he would be dining that very night with Jesus in Heaven. We have a thread for it already. But keep in mind that while the word "purgatory" isn't in scripture, the concepts are there. Paul speaks of it. Our Lord mentions those who won't be forgiven here or in the next world (and implies that there are those who might be forgiven in the next world). Remember also that "trinity" isn't in scripture, either. :)

Zhi -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/9/2008 11:46:15 AM)
You really do need to add links when you tell us there are one-stop threads.

LoyalGypsy -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/9/2008 11:48:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lurker quote: ORIGINAL: jbow Maybe if he start's to sell off the vatican gold and art and begin's to give the money back to the poor from whence it came, then I will be excited. So you'd rather all that art be hidden away in private collections rather than available for the public to enjoy? Greetings.. quote: So you'd rather all that art be hidden away in private collections Not exactly, to promote the Gospel Jesus said, 22 So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." 23 But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich. quote: Why would he want to contradict scripture? Yes, why is is he?? LG

Lurker -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/9/2008 2:48:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy quote: ORIGINAL: Lurker quote: ORIGINAL: jbow Maybe if he start's to sell off the vatican gold and art and begin's to give the money back to the poor from whence it came, then I will be excited. So you'd rather all that art be hidden away in private collections rather than available for the public to enjoy? Greetings.. quote: So you'd rather all that art be hidden away in private collections Not exactly, to promote the Gospel Jesus said, 22 So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." 23 But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich. quote: Why would he want to contradict scripture? Yes, why is is he?? LG He's not contradicting scripture. He's contradicting a lot of people's interpretations of scripture but that doesn't necessarily mean they're the ones who are correct in their interpretation. As far as the selling everything for the poor, you are aware that the Catholic Church is one of (if not THE) largest charitable organizations in the world right? 8When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. "Why this waste?" they asked. 9"This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor." 10Aware of this, Jesus said to them, "Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. 11The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me. 12When she poured this perfume on my body, she did it to prepare me for burial. 13I tell you the truth, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her."

Lurker -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/9/2008 2:50:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zhi You really do need to add links when you tell us there are one-stop threads. They're all located here: http://forums.christianity.com/Catholic_Discussion_Index/m_1642/mpage_1/tm.htm#1708 Hope that helps. :) The specific thread about Purgatory is here: http://forums.christianity.com/fb.aspx?m=1613

LoyalGypsy -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/9/2008 4:33:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lurker 22 So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." 23 But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich. quote: Why would he want to contradict scripture? Yes, why is is he?? LG He's not contradicting scripture. He's contradicting a lot of people's interpretations of scripture but that doesn't necessarily mean they're the ones who are correct in their interpretation. As far as the selling everything for the poor, you are aware that the Catholic Church is one of (if not THE) largest charitable organizations in the world right? Greetings, Charity does not save a person, there is only 1 mediator between God and man, and the Pope is not Him. If he is not contradicting the faith.... then can you tell us what he means here by the common commitment, by his own words??? QUOTE The Catholic Church is actively committed to this and, with the two meetings in Assisi, has left evident signs of it, signs that we renewed again at this year's Meeting in Naples. On this topic, I would like to mention the kind letter sent to me last 13 October by 138 Muslim religious leaders, testifying to their common commitment to promoting world peace END The last I heard the religious leaders of Islam are saying there will be no peace until Islam is domination the world!! quote: Shared recognition of the existence of one God, the provident Creator and universal Judge of everyone's conduct, constitutes the premise of a common action in defense of the effective respect of the dignity of every human person in order to build a more just and united society. END There is no such thing as a Shared recognition of the existence of one God, in Islam unless you become Islam This is what he is saying That he speaking for all of you and is on the verge of selling out to Islam for the sake of peace!! Maybe not him, the next one!!! He just imaging a type of John the Baptist, I mean any RC doctrine says to submit to government �.but even I do not see in that doctrine where it says�. to hand it over by submission. There is this motto I found about those138 Muslim religious leaders ADD The Muslim Brotherhood, today widely regarded as the largest Islamic movement in the world, was founded by Hassan al-Banna in 1928. Its member groups are dedicated to the motto: "Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. The Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope." Allah is not Jesus and if the Pope had any thing between his ears he should respond and say to them, �God has other plans �lets give them honor. And give them their highest hope. And Please!!!....I dont need any links ....I know who I am speaking to. LG

Lurker -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/15/2008 12:48:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy quote: ORIGINAL: Lurker 22 So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." 23 But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich. quote: Why would he want to contradict scripture? Yes, why is is he?? LG He's not contradicting scripture. He's contradicting a lot of people's interpretations of scripture but that doesn't necessarily mean they're the ones who are correct in their interpretation. As far as the selling everything for the poor, you are aware that the Catholic Church is one of (if not THE) largest charitable organizations in the world right? Greetings, Charity does not save a person, there is only 1 mediator between God and man, and the Pope is not Him. If he is not contradicting the faith.... then can you tell us what he means here by the common commitment, by his own words??? QUOTE The Catholic Church is actively committed to this and, with the two meetings in Assisi, has left evident signs of it, signs that we renewed again at this year's Meeting in Naples. On this topic, I would like to mention the kind letter sent to me last 13 October by 138 Muslim religious leaders, testifying to their common commitment to promoting world peace END The last I heard the religious leaders of Islam are saying there will be no peace until Islam is domination the world!! quote: Shared recognition of the existence of one God, the provident Creator and universal Judge of everyone's conduct, constitutes the premise of a common action in defense of the effective respect of the dignity of every human person in order to build a more just and united society. END There is no such thing as a Shared recognition of the existence of one God, in Islam unless you become Islam This is what he is saying Actually, it's not what he's saying. You'd likely understand his POV a bit better if you'd actually read some of his writings. quote: That he speaking for all of you and is on the verge of selling out to Islam for the sake of peace!! Maybe not him, the next one!!! He just imaging a type of John the Baptist, I mean any RC doctrine says to submit to government �.but even I do not see in that doctrine where it says�. to hand it over by submission. There is this motto I found about those138 Muslim religious leaders ADD The Muslim Brotherhood, today widely regarded as the largest Islamic movement in the world, was founded by Hassan al-Banna in 1928. Its member groups are dedicated to the motto: "Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. The Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope." Allah is not Jesus and if the Pope had any thing between his ears he should respond and say to them, �God has other plans �lets give them honor. And give them their highest hope. And Please!!!....I don't need any links ....I know who I am speaking to. LG As I said above, if you'd read his writings, particularly his book "Truth And Tolerance" you'd likely know how he works. one of the basic principles of the book is how to view other religions through the lens of belief in Jesus. One of the key elements of this book is the idea that ALL other religions relate to Christianity in a fashion. Non-Christian religions either help point the way to Christ by preparing a person to acknowledge there is a higher power, that is God. When the non-Christian religion is monotheistic it helps even more. Regardless, he knows that a person genuinely seeking to know God will not be abandoned. Look to the examples of the Scriptures to see this in action. The Greeks devoted themselves to what they believed was holy. They were constantly seeking to know more and even had an altar to an "unknown god". When Paul came to them, they realized that he held the answer to what they sought. The unknown god became known to them. This is what Benedict is looking for when he encourages them to study Islam and our shared belief in One God. By exhorting them to really delve into the intricacies of Islam, and the belief in the God of Abraham, he knows that people genuinely seeking to know God will inevitably be drawn to Christ. This is of course borne out in the fact that there are literally thousands of Muslims who are being led to Christ after immersing themselves into Islam. (There's even a few Catholic saints who came to Christ this way). If a person is genuinely seeking to devote themselves to God, God will reveal himself. In a sense Benedict is encouraging them to really examine themselves and devote themselves to God, he trusts in the Lord that they will be shown the Truth. The Truth that is Christ, Our Hope. We're well aware of the dangers that Islam can pose to us. We still mourn the fall of Constantinople to this day. But we are confident in the promises of Christ and His love. Truly, Christ is our hope.

martyfran -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/15/2008 5:46:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jbow Maybe if he start's to sell off the vatican gold and art and begin's to give the money back to the poor from whence it came, then I will be excited. I find it funny that people often accuse the vatican of emmense wealth, but when pressed for actual data, they are universally quiet. So, here is your chance to be different. What pieces of Vatican art was donated by poor people? What gold was given by poor people? Did any of the vatican's art or gold come from the poor in the US? If so, from where did it come? I am sure, Jbow, that you will agree with me that these are very reasonable questions to ask.

1love1God1way -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/15/2008 8:03:05 PM)
martyfan, It all stems back to the very reason people like Martin Luther and Erasmus saw the need for reform.

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/15/2008 9:30:21 PM)
It's too bad the civil authoritys of the United States have not the resolve to arrest the pope for his complicity regarding the raping of children in this country by Roman Catholic and the cover up that allowed it to continue for decades... Bishops who confessed to raping children are still in the church and not in prison... Disgusting... Ungoldy, and invoking the name of God in their defense will bring upon them God's wrath... John

jbow -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/15/2008 10:22:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: martyfran quote: ORIGINAL: jbow Maybe if he start's to sell off the vatican gold and art and begin's to give the money back to the poor from whence it came, then I will be excited. I find it funny that people often accuse the vatican of emmense wealth, but when pressed for actual data, they are universally quiet. So, here is your chance to be different. What pieces of Vatican art was donated by poor people? What gold was given by poor people? Did any of the vatican's art or gold come from the poor in the US? If so, from where did it come? I am sure, Jbow, that you will agree with me that these are very reasonable questions to ask. Oh, I wont be quiet. The vatican receives money from poor parrishes all over the world, all the time. They have sold indulgences to the poor for centuries. They have become wealthy off backs of the poor. Where do you think they get all their money? How could anyone justify the selling of indulgences to anyone? When the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from purgatory springs... yeah... right. In 1994, an audit listed:- 1,483 billion lire in assets [About $848 million]: -- 732 billion lire [about $419 million] in liabilities (in the"Consolidated Financial Statements of the Holy See" (410 billion in cash, 479 billion in stocks and bonds, 29 billion in gold, and 470billion in fixed assets - investments and real-estate) . 269 billionlire are in deposits and accounts of Vatican entities, 96 billion foremployees' severance indemnities and 262 billion at the value ofpensions to present employees;- 750 billion are in net assets [$430 million]. What possible reason can a "so called" church have for having this kind of wealth? What is the reason for the church anyway????? Please... gimme a break. Plus this "so called" "holy father"... (again, gimme a break) dissed all protestants last year by saying that protestant pastors have no standing to offer communion..?? doesn't that mean, in his opinion, protestants are not saved? I wish the pope would stay home. I am offended by him and offended that President Bush would honor this man by going to the airport to meet him... that is an embarassment. The pope deserves no such honor. I believe the last pope was actually a Christian, not sure about this one. J

martyfran -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/15/2008 10:50:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jbow Oh, I wont be quiet. The vatican receives money from poor parrishes all over the world, all the time. They have sold indulgences to the poor for centuries. They have become wealthy off backs of the poor. Now, let me point out something here for everyone to see. We have an allegation, but no evidence whatsoever. How does the Vatican get this money? Do they send the poor parishes a bill? It must be only the poor parishes who get this bill, because I am on our finance council at my parish, and there is nothing in the budget for money owed to the Vatican. We do, take up a special collection once a year for Peter's Pence, which supports the charitable works of the Vatican. This collection represents well under 1% of our total budget. So while you weren't quiet, you made an allegation and provided zero evidence of it. Second, the Vatican doesn't sell indulgences, plain and simple. quote: In 1994, an audit listed:- 1,483 billion lire in assets [About $848 million]: -- 732 billion lire [about $419 million] in liabilities (in the"Consolidated Financial Statements of the Holy See" (410 billion in cash, 479 billion in stocks and bonds, 29 billion in gold, and 470billion in fixed assets - investments and real-estate) . 269 billionlire are in deposits and accounts of Vatican entities, 96 billion foremployees' severance indemnities and 262 billion at the value ofpensions to present employees;- 750 billion are in net assets [$430 million]. What possible reason can a "so called" church have for having this kind of wealth? What is the reason for the church anyway????? The most recent data you can get your hands on is 1994? Of course, the relevant question is not the value of the assets, but what are they doing with those assets. The Vatican has a lot of assets, it also has a lot of responsibilities. I have worked at universities that had more wealth than the Vatican, and that wealth was used for one primary reason: to increase the salaries of the professors and administrators who worked there. Does the Vatican pay their employees to much? quote: Plus this "so called" "holy father"... (again, gimme a break) dissed all protestants last year by saying that protestant pastors have no standing to offer communion..?? doesn't that mean, in his opinion, protestants are not saved? Actually, what he basically said was that Protestant communion was just what most Protestants think it is, nothing but a piece of bread, just a simple ritual. Why is that so offensive? quote: I wish the pope would stay home. I am offended by him and offended that President Bush would honor this man by going to the airport to meet him... that is an embarassment. The pope deserves no such honor. I believe the last pope was actually a Christian, not sure about this one. Were you embarrased when Presidents Clinton and Reagan did the same thing?

martyfran -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/15/2008 10:51:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way martyfan, It all stems back to the very reason people like Martin Luther and Erasmus saw the need for reform. Are you talking about indulgences? Perhaps if you can provide some specific numbers, that would be more helpful.

1love1God1way -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/15/2008 11:10:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: martyfran quote: ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way martyfan, It all stems back to the very reason people like Martin Luther and Erasmus saw the need for reform. Are you talking about indulgences? Perhaps if you can provide some specific numbers, that would be more helpful. Primarily, yes. I don't have specific numbers. All I know is "when the coin in the coffer rings, a soul from purgatory springs."

martyfran -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/16/2008 9:28:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way Primarily, yes. I don't have specific numbers. All I know is "when the coin in the coffer rings, a soul from purgatory springs." At least you are honest enough to admit that you base your beliefs on unsubstantiated claims. Is your quote from an official Vatican document? Or does it come from someone who has an axe to grind?

vixir -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/16/2008 9:46:30 AM)
My answer has to be 'No'. To me, he's just another guy -- and no disrespect, but I don't see what's so special about the pope. One dies and another is chosen. I never got the whole pope thing. [8\|]

stamper_ben -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/16/2008 9:55:09 AM)
quote: I never got the whole pope thing. Try thinking "worldly power" and you might get an idea.

vixir -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/16/2008 10:02:21 AM)
Sorry, I'm still not getting it. Maybe I'll do some research for a more clear understanding.

mapachito13 -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/16/2008 10:10:10 AM)
I always thought bashing another Christian's denomination was against the TOS of this site or does that only apply to certain denominations or non-denominations. (That word always makes me laugh, especially when it is followed by the word Christian. An oxymoron if I've ever heard one.) This type of behavior always gives new meaning to the Jesus' words "By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." John 13:35

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? (4/16/2008 10:15:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: martyfran Were you embarrased when Presidents Clinton and Reagan did the same thing? Disgusted... John

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