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RE: Secular Bands OK? - 5/1/2008 1:02:44 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Oh...and I like Norma Jean. Maybe that counts for something.
That counts for everything.
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RE: Secular Bands OK? - 5/1/2008 2:11:30 PM
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freakofnature
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1) I don't believe there is anything wrong with listening to "secular" music per se. Anyone who has been born again for two seconds should know what sorts of lyrics are not edifying and need to be steered clear of. That said, there may be times that you are not convicted of listening to anything and other times that you may be convicted to only listen to Christian music. Be mindful and smart about it and don't worry so much. You're not going to hell because you heard some Eminem today and enjoyed it.
I am quite sure you are correct, in an of it self, all secular music is not always a bad thing. This is a bit of a general statement. I don't know that painting with such a wide brush helps or hinders these discussions. Jazz, blues, country, rock, classical...
I don't know that this is true. Those living in the world for any length of time and then commit their life to Christ may not yet know what the Decernment feeling or conviction is all about. And I argue that some new Christians feel the same way as others here, "what is wrong with some music?" is a queston that gets brought up here in this forum with adult Christians, much less baby Christians.
I don't think anyone is saying your going to Hell for listening to Eminem but what do the extremely graphic images that his songs paint in your mind do to build your mind and spirit?
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2) I think people are often too caught up in what makes a band Christian or not. A band made up of atheists could conceivably play Christian songs; likewise there are many Christian musicians who are part of bands that do not play songs with Christian lyrics. Relax and use discretion.
I agree to a degree, I even question some band labled as Christian, as being actual Christian band. I once read an interview with Marilyn Manson in Guitar Player Magazine back in probably 96 or 97, he said that he and his friends actually started a Christian band so they could see how many people they could fool?? Funny huh? But to relax and use discretion is to let your gaurd down, a little here, a little there, next thing ya know...
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3) I agree with hawknelsonhasthelongestusernameever. Christian artists need to stop attempting to copy popular secular artists. First, copies are rarely good. Second, you just look like you're hopping on a bandwagon to make a buck off Christians. I don't know if this is actually the fault of the bands or the record execs.
I agree there as well, but you asked for the perspective from a person who listens to pretty exclusively Christian Based Entertainment. I have basically quit buying CD's by Secular artist (again keeping in mind I think we are all discussing popular or even some underground rock/punk/metal, not really R&B or hip hop, not yet any way) anyway I have stopped purchasing/supporting secular artist, since then most of the metal/rock/hard core I buy now sounds pretty original to me cause I have nothing on the secular side to compare it to. UH, I have a pretty varied taste in music I do listen to Rock/Metal, R&B (christian based) a little Hip-Hop, (again Christian) P & W, Some Country, (again Christian tho). Then I do have a large variety of Jazz from Marcus Miller, John Pattitucci to Miles Davis and Theloniuos Monk.
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4) My experience with Christian music has been that it's cheesy. I like a wide variety of music, so it's not that I am narrow-minded style-wise. I just haven't heard lyrics that I think are particularly well-written or music that stands out at all. I like David Crowder's word-switching-up stuff. I like straight up praise and worship music because I understand it's purpose. Most of the rest...um...are you singing that to Jesus or the cute guy in study hall? OR...this is Christian because...???
Again I agree with you in principal but need I remind you of a segment of our pop music history called Hair Metal. And even to some extent modern music, like Nickleback, most of the hip-hop, I have to be subjected to this stuff all day because of my co-workers, and the song that is on now, "Give that big booty a slap" "Shorty got low, low, low, low..." what the????
To wrap it up, it is all about perspective, and in the same way we need to be selective of the secular music we listen to, imho, we need to be selective of the Christian music we listen to as well. Buy what's good and not Cheesy and then let the market do the rest. I am excited at where Christian music is now compared to where it has come from.
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RE: Secular Bands OK? - 5/1/2008 2:29:39 PM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: freakofnature
Those living in the world for any length of time and then commit their life to Christ may not yet know what the Decernment feeling or conviction is all about. And I argue that some new Christians feel the same way as others here, "what is wrong with some music?" is a queston that gets brought up here in this forum with adult Christians, much less baby Christians.
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I don't think anyone is saying your going to Hell for listening to Eminem but what do the extremely graphic images that his songs paint in your mind do to build your mind and spirit?
These two statements are related and prove my point. I think there are lyrics that are so blatantly graphic that any Christian--new or otherwise--should be able to discern that they shouldn't be listened to. I happen to think Eminem is catchy and I do enjoy him when I hear him out and about. I don't own any of his music or choose to listen to him. I suspect lots of Christians may have the same reaction to entertainers that are best steered clear of. It takes some maturity to practice self-control in areas like this, but this is something that is learned over time as one grows and matures in Christ. In the meanwhile...people should be mindful and smart about what they put in their minds and relax. IOW, put your effort into prayer and bible study and your walk and all this other will fall in line and in place.
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2) I think people are often too caught up in what makes a band Christian or not. A band made up of atheists could conceivably play Christian songs; likewise there are many Christian musicians who are part of bands that do not play songs with Christian lyrics. Relax and use discretion.
I agree to a degree, I even question some band labled as Christian, as being actual Christian band. I once read an interview with Marilyn Manson in Guitar Player Magazine back in probably 96 or 97, he said that he and his friends actually started a Christian band so they could see how many people they could fool?? Funny huh? But to relax and use discretion is to let your gaurd down, a little here, a little there, next thing ya know...
Good example, thanks. To relax and use discretion goes the other direction. No one should be paralyzed by trying to decide what's okay and what isn't. Again: put your effort into prayer and bible study and your walk and all this other will fall in line and in place.
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3) I agree with hawknelsonhasthelongestusernameever. Christian artists need to stop attempting to copy popular secular artists. First, copies are rarely good. Second, you just look like you're hopping on a bandwagon to make a buck off Christians. I don't know if this is actually the fault of the bands or the record execs.
I agree there as well, but you asked for the perspective from a person who listens to pretty exclusively Christian Based Entertainment. I have basically quit buying CD's by Secular artist (again keeping in mind I think we are all discussing popular or even some underground rock/punk/metal, not really R&B or hip hop, not yet any way) anyway I have stopped purchasing/supporting secular artist, since then most of the metal/rock/hard core I buy now sounds pretty original to me cause I have nothing on the secular side to compare it to. UH, I have a pretty varied taste in music I do listen to Rock/Metal, R&B (christian based) a little Hip-Hop, (again Christian) P & W, Some Country, (again Christian tho). Then I do have a large variety of Jazz from Marcus Miller, John Pattitucci to Miles Davis and Theloniuos Monk.
Good perspective, thanks.
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4) My experience with Christian music has been that it's cheesy. I like a wide variety of music, so it's not that I am narrow-minded style-wise. I just haven't heard lyrics that I think are particularly well-written or music that stands out at all. I like David Crowder's word-switching-up stuff. I like straight up praise and worship music because I understand it's purpose. Most of the rest...um...are you singing that to Jesus or the cute guy in study hall? OR...this is Christian because...???
Again I agree with you in principal but need I remind you of a segment of our pop music history called Hair Metal. And even to some extent modern music, like Nickleback, most of the hip-hop, I have to be subjected to this stuff all day because of my co-workers, and the song that is on now, "Give that big booty a slap" "Shorty got low, low, low, low..." what the????
Nickelback...patooie, patooie.  Why you gotta go and bring them up?  (As far as the big booty...I'll refer back to my Eminem comments.)
Yes, you are totally right. There is some amazingly bad music out there. I'm regularly shocked at the kind of entertainers that get recording contracts.  However, I'm trying to think of which Christian artists would be inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame, etc.
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CW Underground
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RE: Secular Bands OK? - 5/1/2008 2:37:23 PM
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freakofnature
Posts: 293
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Nickelback...patooie, patooie. Why you gotta go and bring them up?
It was tough, believe me. Wow, what's with that song I mentioned earlier... the one about "everyone wants to be a big rock star"??? YUCK!!!!
Sorry I had to interject them into the discussion, I won't let it happen again. I promise.
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However, I'm trying to think of which Christian artists would be inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame, etc. Oh and for this, uh, good point but then I'm not so concerned about getting into the R&R hall of fame I guess to say that the Christian music industry is still up and coming. In the end, when the world is gone, will that matter???? But I know you are correct with that.
< Message edited by freakofnature -- 5/1/2008 2:43:59 PM >
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RE: Secular Bands OK? - 5/1/2008 3:01:51 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: freakofnature
quote:
Nickelback...patooie, patooie. Why you gotta go and bring them up?
It was tough, believe me. Wow, what's with that song I mentioned earlier... the one about "everyone wants to be a big rock star"??? YUCK!!!!
Sorry I had to interject them into the discussion, I won't let it happen again. I promise.
Yay for singing through your teeth!
Not unlike Creed, Lifehouse, Fuel. . .
_____________________________
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RE: Secular Bands OK? - 5/1/2008 3:18:23 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
And for me the Teen angst thing, I get it that you are 19 and you hate your dad, but that is empty and in the long run, I don't think it is beneficial to sing about it. I know it "relates" to what is really going on, and "Speaks" to many a teenager but again that doesn't really point in the right direction.
The only reason I thought of the Staind song was because their lead singer (Aaron Lewis) was interviewed about it and he was happy about the fact that many teens contacted him to tell him that the song really helped them.
I'm sick of that theme also and I have no desire to ever listen to Staind but at least the singer appears to be a good guy and wants to help teens (while being a rock star). Whether its really helpful, thats up to debate.
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RE: Secular Bands OK? - 5/1/2008 3:25:17 PM
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freakofnature
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000
quote:
And for me the Teen angst thing, I get it that you are 19 and you hate your dad, but that is empty and in the long run, I don't think it is beneficial to sing about it. I know it "relates" to what is really going on, and "Speaks" to many a teenager but again that doesn't really point in the right direction.
The only reason I thought of the Staind song was because their lead singer (Aaron Lewis) was interviewed about it and he was happy about the fact that many teens contacted him to tell him that the song really helped them.
I'm sick of that theme also and I have no desire to ever listen to Staind but at least the singer appears to be a good guy and wants to help teens (while being a rock star). Whether its really helpful, thats up to debate.
Hopefully, keeps them alive long enough to find the real hope, the hope we have in Christ. I pray they all find Jesus.
(just a side note, Gene Simmons is one of the happiest go lucky guys on the face of the earth, just thought I'd through that out there)
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RE: Secular Bands OK? - 5/1/2008 3:47:43 PM
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freakofnature
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: freakofnature
(just a side note, Gene Simmons is one of the happiest go lucky guys on the face of the earth, just thought I'd through that out there)
He's a powerful and attractive man. 
Only with the make up... I've seen the show "FamilyJewels" YAAAAOOWWW man is he gettin' old?
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RE: Secular Bands OK? - 5/1/2008 4:00:51 PM
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hawknelsonismyfriend
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: freakofnature
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: freakofnature
(just a side note, Gene Simmons is one of the happiest go lucky guys on the face of the earth, just thought I'd through that out there)
He's a powerful and attractive man.
Only with the make up... I've seen the show "FamilyJewels" YAAAAOOWWW man is he gettin' old?
Sorry, he said that a few times on Celebrity Apprentice and it cracked me up. Pretty bad when KISS makeup looks better than your real face. 
In the interest of being fair, I'm currently listening to a list of bands that hawknelson~ put in that other thread. Relient K I think is too "pop-y" for my taste. But I listen on.
They're new stuff is poppy and I hate it, their old stuff is better, more pop-punk, it's awesome. Go for Two Lefts, Tongue In Cheek, or Mmhmm. If you just want fun pop-punk get their debut. But they're new album is emo-pop.
_____________________________
...You all laugh at me like I'm not happy
With anything, anytime, anywhere
And the half of me is all about apathy
And the other half just doesn't care...
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RE: Secular Bands OK? - 5/1/2008 4:10:58 PM
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freakofnature
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hawknelsonismyfriend
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
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ORIGINAL: freakofnature
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ORIGINAL: stellaluna
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ORIGINAL: freakofnature
(just a side note, Gene Simmons is one of the happiest go lucky guys on the face of the earth, just thought I'd through that out there)
He's a powerful and attractive man.
Only with the make up... I've seen the show "FamilyJewels" YAAAAOOWWW man is he gettin' old?
Sorry, he said that a few times on Celebrity Apprentice and it cracked me up. Pretty bad when KISS makeup looks better than your real face.
In the interest of being fair, I'm currently listening to a list of bands that hawknelson~ put in that other thread. Relient K I think is too "pop-y" for my taste. But I listen on.
They're new stuff is poppy and I hate it, their old stuff is better, more pop-punk, it's awesome. Go for Two Lefts, Tongue In Cheek, or Mmhmm. If you just want fun pop-punk get their debut. But they're new album is emo-pop.
Hey hawk....Sorry dude about the other postings you felt offended by, I have chilled... otherwise, I personally enjoy all of the Relient K stuff, new and old, frankly MMHMM and Five Score, while I enjoy their earlier works, I'd have to say that lyrically and musically they are stronger and tighter as a band, whether you like the style or not is not for me to say, I think the writing and musicianship has greatly improved.
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RE: Secular Bands OK? - 5/3/2008 3:48:36 PM
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Ganheim
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I had a lot to say, but it seems everybody's already said it. Needless to say, I'll say it again in my own words:
This argument is going to go on forever, because everybody has different music tastes - and these tastes change depending on mood and other factors. Even me (I'll use secular bands because I don't have a lot of exposure to Christian Music): when I'm feeling gloomy I'll listen to Evanescence. When I'm feeling angry I'll listen to Rammstein. When I'm feeling upbeat I'll listen to Ayumi Hamasaki. That's a broad range of music, and the fact of the matter is there's a lot of music out there because there's a broad range of people who have a broad range of music tastes. You may have noticed that there's some groups missing: whatever mood I'm in, I don't like listening to rap. For some people that's their "bread and butter" and I probably seem strange for not liking it.
In some senses it's true that Christian Music has some catching up due to the fact that the melody or lyrics come second to the message conveyed by them, but I think it's an oversimplification to say that's it. Christian bands can set trends too, but I don't believe that it's necessary to spearhead something new in order to make something good: the phrase "If it isn't broken, don't fix it" wasn't invented for nothing. If I may use an example from a different entertainment, I like to play strategy games. Blizzard's "Starcraft" was in most senses a cookie-cutter game that followed an extremely basic collect-these-resources-build-stuff-and-blow-up-the-bad-guys. That didn't stop me from liking it.
From what I see of the posters, it's generally agreed that just because the lyrics aren't explicitly glorifying God doesn't mean the song can't be glorifying to God. Lyrics may not be necessary (instrumentals exist), and you can interpret lyrics that may not have even been initially intended for Christian usage to express a Christian message: I used Linkin Park's In the End to explain with ancedotes that things done for the world don't matter but that fighting for God is never a lost cause.
My belief: music is music, and if it directly glorifies God then that's great. If it doesn't, don't forget this: Creation declares the glory of God. Psalm 19:1. God made man in His own image, and therefore there is by His design some of Him in all of us, appreciation of nature and music are some of those things.
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Writer on Fiction Press, Fan Fiction, Deviant Art.
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RE: Secular Bands OK? - 5/3/2008 6:52:02 PM
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tombombadil
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1970rodney
I believe if it doesn't give glory unto Jesus it is vain no matter what the genre of music it is. Now i know most us do not constantly go around giving glory unto God but if we willingly listen to secular music which has no intentions of giving Him glory then that is wrong.Secular music will get into your head and take your focus off him period. From experience it may start out as something harmless but believe me, that is all the enemy needs. Before you know it you'll be listening to stuff you never would have dreamed you'd listen to. I'm speaking from personal experience here. Where I live everybody in the local churches will tend to listen to country thinking that is ok. It is as bad if not worse. At least with rock and roll they're upfront in your face about what they are. Country music is the most deceptive music genre out there. It lures weak minded and spiritually weak Christians in by singing a Patriotic song or a song about mama or a song about remebering church on Sundays when they were young. Then the rest of it is about drinking,cheating, and Hell itself. I've had parents come up to me and say you're the youth director talk to my kids about this rock music they're listening to. Tell them it's wrong. Then get in there car with Travis Tritt or Toby Kieth playing. YOu talk about hypocritcal! Ask God what to listen to and be willing to go that direction. 
I would suggest only watching only TBN then and only watch cheesy Christian movies.
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RE: Secular Bands OK? - 5/3/2008 7:18:59 PM
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hawknelsonismyfriend
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As long as the artist does not promote/glorify what the Bible calls a sin, it's OK.
_____________________________
...You all laugh at me like I'm not happy
With anything, anytime, anywhere
And the half of me is all about apathy
And the other half just doesn't care...
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RE: Secular Bands OK? - 5/4/2008 12:31:06 AM
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Rufas2000
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I would suggest only watching only TBN then and only watch cheesy Christian movies.
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As long as the artist does not promote/glorify what the Bible calls a sin, it's OK.
Well that would leave TBN out.
Ha Ha Ha, I kill me.
I guess there's an actual point in there but y'all can find it. Shouldn't be hard at all.
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RE: Secular Bands OK? - 5/4/2008 12:40:43 AM
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Rufas2000
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I don't believe anyone said anything about tv
That was his point. Secular music is often demonized but nary a word about secular TV or movies.
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I am very strict in what I allow on my tv.
OK, I respect that. Its just too bad there is less and less on these days that would be considered "wholesome". Then again, our world isn't "wholesome" so its kind of to be expected. "The Cosby Show" was "wholesome" but how many families actually live like that?
But thats just me. Kudos on your devotion to God.
< Message edited by Rufas2000 -- 5/4/2008 9:15:14 AM >
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RE: Secular Bands OK? - 5/5/2008 10:55:09 AM
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stellaluna
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I added Hawk Nelson and Sanctus Real to one of my YouTube playlists. I was already familiary with MxPx. I did not like Relient K.
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RE: Secular Bands OK? - 5/5/2008 11:02:41 AM
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Rufas2000
Posts: 765
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quote:
I added Hawk Nelson and Sanctus Real to one of my YouTube playlists. I was already familiary with MxPx. I did not like Relient K.
I guess I'm just too picky. None of those float my boat so to speak. They aren't "bad" mind you but not my thing.
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RE: Secular Bands OK? - 5/5/2008 1:19:07 PM
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BlindLemon5103
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quote:
I believe if it doesn't give glory unto Jesus it is vain no matter what the genre of music it is. Now i know most us do not constantly go around giving glory unto God but if we willingly listen to secular music which has no intentions of giving Him glory then that is wrong.
Surely this must apply to songs with sinful lyrics. It could not possibly mean that to listen to songs about everyday experiences or even tunes composed merely for entertainment (i.e. polkas) is wrong in and of itself. Listening to "When The Levee Breaks" is not "garbage in", but "Whole Lotta Love" is, using Led Zeppelin as an example.
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Secular music will get into your head and take your focus off him period.
It most certainly can, but everyone handles it differently. I would say this is the case across the board.
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Country music is the most deceptive music genre out there. It lures weak minded and spiritually weak Christians in by singing a Patriotic song or a song about mama or a song about remebering church on Sundays when they were young. Then the rest of it is about drinking,cheating, and Hell itself.
I agree that country music often gets a pass, when it has it's own fair share of ungodly lyrics. I really don't care for much of modern "country" music (pop music with a hat) on strictly musical grounds....but if I liked it as a style, I would listen to the songs about mama and the patriotic ones, and disregard the ones that glorify the bad stuff. I do not feel singing a song about a bad experience is necessarily bad (like in the blues) if it's honest artistic expression and doesn't promote sinful activity...it can be descriptive, but not necessarily prescriptive.
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Ask God what to listen to and be willing to go that direction.
Now that I can agree with, though we all have our o | | |
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