RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768

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drussell52 -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/21/2008 5:23:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ofthewaytoo Erev Tov! I am a new member here and wanted to introduce myself. I am not quite sure where I will fit in but thought "Why not the Messianic Section". Someone also pointed me this way. I guess my Shalom gave me away. LOL! I am neither Jew nor Gentile. lol, so bare with me. My Grandfather change our religion when he married a gentile, so I am one of those confused beings that have lost their way or found it! LOL. I guess it make me only a child of G-d. I have become comfortable with the label Zionist though I do not understand people and the labels. I have enjoyed reading some of the Topics in the other folders but am cautious of joining in. So, anyway, here I am. Kol Tuv Renee Shalom Renee, welcome to the forum, name is David, from Michigan.. I just rambled on and on in responding to graftedin, so will keep my words few and welcoming :)

Lapidoth -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/22/2008 11:32:25 AM)
Welcome Renee. It's okay to join in where ever you feel the need. It's just in some threads it takes a pretty thick skin. lol. But, overall, it's a loving family.

Bluethread -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/22/2008 11:49:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ofthewaytoo Erev Tov! I am a new member here and wanted to introduce myself. I am not quite sure where I will fit in but thought "Why not the Messianic Section". Someone also pointed me this way. I guess my Shalom gave me away. LOL! I am neither Jew nor Gentile. lol, so bare with me. My Grandfather change our religion when he married a gentile, so I am one of those confused beings that have lost their way or found it! LOL. I guess it make me only a child of G-d. I have become comfortable with the label Zionist though I do not understand people and the labels. I have enjoyed reading some of the Topics in the other folders but am cautious of joining in. So, anyway, here I am. Kol Tuv Renee Welcome, just so were on the same page. To my understanding, Zionist is a political term and refers to those who support a greater Israel as a nation regardless of their theological beliefs and halachah. I say this because you will need to be very careful with the terms you use at this site. Not on this thread(yet). This is still a place where you can go to get advise on strategy, verbage or just a break. Shaloam Elechim

Lapidoth -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/22/2008 1:17:08 PM)
quote: or just a break. So far, that's the part I like. LOL.

drussell52 -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/22/2008 6:23:40 PM)
Shalom all. Still trying to learn my way around in here, y9ikes.. Anyhow, I just finished listening to the Galatians study for this week and recommend it to anyone interested in the issue of should their be ritual conversion to Messianic Judaism? Go to www.tnnonline.net, link to bible study, and in that, the study for Galatians 5 verse 4 with Excursis which means teaching within a teaching. A question for all to bear in mind is do you observe the torah thinking it will justify you, or because you desire to live a holy life? To the person who posted about their family being quite vocal about their involvement in Messianic Judaism, this would be a good study for not only the siblings to hear, but the parents as well. To Above_all, blue is right on about us all being adopted into the family by faith, and we observe the rules of the household, out of a desire to be in harmony with the family in the house. We eventually get the best from Jewish Culture, Romans 3:2, and we bring the best of our culture Genesis 12:3, to the table. Abraham was called to be a blessing to the nations in Gen 12:3, hence as his kids, we are too. What uis a bit scary for one who has never been to a messianic congregation is the assertion that the non Jewish believers are kind of snubbed by the Jewish believers in many congregations, is that an issue? Finally, shalom shabbat to all, and be a blessing today where you are!

Lapidoth -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/23/2008 4:23:53 PM)
dr, I checked out that website. Anything that you wouldn't recommend on it? Seems like they may have some beneficial stuff. I don't mind spending my money, but I hate to buy a lot of books and then find I completely disagree with them doctrinally. lol.

drussell52 -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/24/2008 11:16:50 AM)
Hi Lapidoth and everyone. As per tnnonline.net, I am not so versed in this, but they hold to a 2-house position, i.e. Israel and the lost tribes, but don't ram it down one's throat so to speak. Compared to some messianic sites I have seen, tnnonline.net is less extreme in their positions or the way they present them so it's possible for newbies like myself to consider them. The Hueys and McKees, who produce this web site are from a Wesleyan background per se so if one has a church background it's great. I think the FAQ section and articles are a good place to hang out, then if you want to contribute or buy something, do as you feel lead. Meantime, gotta run but shalom shabbat to all!

narnia -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/26/2008 7:06:11 AM)
quote: What uis a bit scary for one who has never been to a messianic congregation is the assertion that the non Jewish believers are kind of snubbed by the Jewish believers in many congregations, is that an issue? Yes. It depends on the congregation-in some that is true, in some it's not. In my former congregation, we had a woman and one son convert to Messianic Judaism. I don't have a problem with that, but the way our rabbi and this woman presented it I had a problem with. She had been the secretary and involved in other things in the congregation for over a decade-so she was already very much part of the family. When she converted, our rabbi said that now he was happy to welcome her into the family. [&:] So apparently he felt like she wasn't family before and by extension, felt that about the rest of us non-converts. Because now she was Jewish, and some of us were not. And there were many others in that congregation who felt like they were less becuase they could not prove they were ethnic Jews. In order for her to convert she had to follow the rules of Orthodox rabbinic kosher. To the point that a Beit Din went to her house to see how and if she was keeping kosher the orthodox rabbinical way. And they have made that congregational kitchen rabbinical kosher too-even though they share it with a church that cooked an Easter ham.[sm=Llol.gif] I laughed so hard when I heard that-especially after numerous people brought up the fact that the church wasn't going to follow kosher and they were assured that the church was on board and understood the importance of being kosher. Whatever you say...[:D] I digress. Anyway, when the woman explained why she wanted to convert, her explanation left me feeling empty. She said all the right things about wanting to identify with the Jewish people, etc..but said one thing that showed me the real reason. She converted she said because now she has a reason to tell family and friends why she celebrates the Feasts. Sooo....doing it because God says so wasn't enough reason to celebrate them? She needed/wanted man's justification and got it. I also know there are some congegations that will not allow people in leadership unless they can prove they are ethnically Jewish. It doesn't matter how long or how faithful they've been to the congregation-they can't be elders or lead in any other area unless they are ethnically Jewish. Some of these congregations did not have that rule before and thus asked people that had been leading to step down-simply because they were not Jewish. I think this may also depend on waht area of the country a congregation is in-but I'm not sure. But I do know that if some congregations had that rule, there would not be enough people to be in leadership. JMHO-your mileage may vary.

Lapidoth -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/27/2008 3:13:29 PM)
Gee Narnia, That's kinda funny and sad at the same time. It causes me to realize that we got it wrong on both sides. Personally, if it smells rabbinical, I back off. I guess I'm a "scripturalist." That's a phrase I heard some time back. I'm not against extra-biblical information, but if the doctrine isn't in the BOOK, I won't follow it. We have one couple that thinks they are orthodox in their life-style, but aren't even close. I suspect the man can't read but won't admit it, so that may be some of the off the wall stuff they come up with. lol. I follow the Feasts because once your eyes are open, it plain as the pages it's written on. Those are the dates given by the Creator. Not the easter, x-mass, etc. days we inherited. I don't follow it because man has said it's right. A man pointed it out, better yet, connected the dots, and I can understand the Feasts now. But, I've studied that line of thought over a year to see if what he said really was biblical. I guess we will continue to look through a glass darkly. When the Messiah returns, our eyes will be opened fully. Then we will know how much more "stuff" we have to lay down. Bottom line is to LOVE God and each other and to spread the "good news." What is a none-of-the-above to do? LOL.

drussell52 -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/27/2008 4:45:40 PM)
Lapidoth, Narnia and anyone else, The advice I was given recently must have been somewhat prophetic, you're here to plant seed, not do it all. I find when going back to the basic resources that bolster my messianic understanding, contentment sets in, and feeling like the shemah is where it's at, instead of trying to figure out where and how to be messianic. Regretably on the short-term HFC didn't work out, and blessed to have this forum, Safe Haven, and a few messianic on line acquaintances to compare notes with, who needs more? I have encountered extremists and probably still reeling from their judgments of how I'm not doing it right. I do get a quite concerned when I read your reply Narnia, and the things asserted by the McKee/Huey family at their web site concerning jewish non-jewish involvement at the congregation level and think why even bother ever going to a messianic service? The ideal seems like what the torah class crowd have going in Florida; someone lectures on the torah and both Christian and Jew attend, and occasionally someone is brought in for a special series. A dream of mine is to have something like that here in my community in Michigan, but time will tell if that pans out. So for now, you guys are stuck with me, growing via First Fruits, day by day experiences, The Word, torahclass, and recently another site called Salt Shakers. Thanks for your support and communication, means much!

Lapidoth -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/27/2008 4:59:05 PM)
That was pretty neat. thanks. quote: OUR DREAM We would like Saltshakers to be a place of freedom and balance. We believe that those born Gentile will always be so and should not strive for a false Jewishness, whether physical or spiritual, as that is not a good witness to Jews, who, having lost so much historically at the hands of "Christians", would see this hijacking of their Jewish identity as nothing but the worst kind of anti-Semitism and hardly an incentive to investigate the claims of Jesus. There is nothing wrong with feeding from the Jewish roots of Christianity to enrich one's faith, but let's not take it too far! Equally we believe that Jews who become believers in Jesus (Yeshua) should not act in any way to provoke resentment from Gentile believers, by imposing behaviour patterns on believers, with the implication that those who do not do likewise are somehow deficient in their walk of faith. But we still love and respect those of you who do the above and expect to be respected by you in turn.

Bluethread -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/28/2008 1:36:45 PM)
This is why I have problems with the church/pastor or synagogue/rabbi system. I do not believe either is biblical. I do not believe it as wrong necessarily, but I do not see where it is established by Adonai. I think it is just in our nature to want to organize. What I see in Scripture is the family as the social foundation with the father as the priest of His family. We are told to have convocations at the appointed times, which include the weekly Sabbaths, but I don't believe that the Scriptures teach us to subordinate ourselves to the community. If we see someone as a threat to our families, we are to take steps to protect ourselves from that person and the consequences of their actions. However, until we are "thrown out of the synagogue", we are to observe the convocations and even then we are to do our best to find someone to meet with at the appointed times, apart from our immediate families. This is, in my opinion, the basis of biblical community. Regarding halachah, I take Paul's advise that we should not let anyone criticize us regarding the keeping of the Sabbaths, meaning how we keep them. I believe we should discuss how "we" or "I" should keep them, but I do not believe it is my place to run another man's household. As Paul states, every man should be convinced in his own mind. Now, if someone takes a vow to be subject to the dictates of another, that man can not complain if he is held to a higher standard. The lesson is that we need to be careful regarding the taking of vows.

Lapidoth -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/29/2008 2:16:14 PM)
quote: This is why I have problems with the church/pastor or synagogue/rabbi system. I do not believe either is biblical. As we read books from both sides of this subject, one can get mighty confused. This is one of those back burner issues I have until I see enough to make a definite judgment that could actually be supported by Scripture. At this point, with those coming here, it appears that one of the problems is we have a mentality of how it is on a personal level and then think it should be that way on a corporate level. I think that cultures play a role in it as well. So, I guess for now, there is no set way or belief we can say is right. We'll just have to do the best we can until we know we are wrong. And then, we would have to know what is right before we can let go the rope we're swinging on. Kinda like swinging through the jungle. The vines aren't ropes, but it's all we got to arrive at the destination. All in all, God's GRACE is so gooooooooooood!. lol.

narnia -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/30/2008 1:05:05 AM)
Please pray for our congregation. Another upheaval seems possible.[&o][:o][&:][sm=crazy.gif][sm=popsigh.gif]

JimboFletch -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/30/2008 4:41:21 PM)
What's your thoughts on Israel naming the Hoopoe, an unclean bird, it's national bird?

Lapidoth -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/30/2008 4:53:31 PM)
That's sad, but not surprising. Israel needs a leader that knows God's Book as bad as we do.

Odeliya -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/30/2008 5:24:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch What's your thoughts on Israel naming the Hoopoe, an unclean bird, it's national bird? I called dad on that just now- he says one of the sharp tongued radio hosts he listens to already commented: " If israelis voted for Hoopoe, no wonder they voted for Olmert." But it is not looked at from the standpoint of being banned or not for consumption, it actually seen just as a animal. We have a batallion in IDF named "Duhifat". What would you have suggested, Jimbo? i know you probably thought of chicken maybe ?

JimboFletch -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/30/2008 5:42:21 PM)
Yeah, chicken might have been near the top of my list. [:D] As a believer, I have no issues with the Hoopoe, but from the nation of Israel, Oy vey! That seems little different than naming the pig as their national farm animal.

Odeliya -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/30/2008 9:07:15 PM)
No, dear, that is not available anymore - we already named the pig as our Prime Minister.

Odeliya -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (5/30/2008 9:25:52 PM)
Well, fresh news are that IDF mostly responsible for huge chunk of votes - "Duhifat" is special forces unit, counter-terrorism as a major task, highly respectful. It was said on news, speculatively- nobody knows for sure -as dad said, that it could be becasue that thing on bird's head resembles head gear of ancient Jews, something like that. But see, just like in US recently, regular news and political satire/general humor programs are always sort of like merged together... I have no idea if they were serious or someone just joked around [:D]

Above_All -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (6/2/2008 3:46:38 AM)
I know, I know. Where have I been. [;)] It's hard to believe that Israel would name an unclean bird as their bird, even if the bird is no longer considered ritually unclean. If all of Israel came to fully recognizing Yeshua as Messiah then it wouldn't be a problem. But since many Jews still live under the law, in their minds, the bird should be changed. The Jewish people still have G-d's greatest favor and by living under the law, they are supposed to be living in complete Holiness. So it baffles me why they would do this. Maybe the bird is a great sign that Yeshua is returning soon? [:D]

Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (6/2/2008 1:54:33 PM)
What's everyone doing Sunday night and Monday (if you celebrate Shavuot on Monday)? I am SO looking forward to it. We observe Shavuot with an all-night Bible-study-schmooze. I am taking my camper to the shul, though, in case I don't make it and must get some zzzzzs. Oh, and food. Just wondering how all of you do things.

narnia -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (6/2/2008 2:12:55 PM)
We will have a potluck dinner at 5, service starts at 6. We will have praise and worship music, read the book of Ruth, have special dance and a tambourine dance. It will be the first service in our very own building. I don't know if they will do the all night study but I won't stay even if they do-dh has to work on Monday and I have a little one. It's not possible for me to do that.

Lapidoth -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (6/2/2008 3:15:02 PM)
quote: It will be the first service in our very own building. CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!

Bluethread -> RE: Messianic Fellowship - Nisan 5768 (6/2/2008 3:55:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch What's your thoughts on Israel naming the Hoopoe, an unclean bird, it's national bird? That all depends on why they chose it. I don't think there are or ever have been many citizen of the USA who think of the bald eagle as an edible bird. The only unclean birds I know of are the dead ones. Now there are several birds that we are commanded not to eat. To not touch them appears to be a rabbinic requirement.

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