Christian author: Cohabitation a 'trial divorce,' not a trial marriage (Full Version)

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Marcus. -> Christian author: Cohabitation a 'trial divorce,' not a trial marriage (4/7/2008 12:33:37 PM)

Ed Thomas - OneNewsNow - 4/2/2008 12:00:00 PM

Author Mike McManus says the conventional wisdom that living together to test the relationship before marriage is flawed, and actually has been proven a mistake.

Mike McManus and wife Harriet are co-founders of Marriage Savers, a marriage training and mentoring ministry. They also co-authored the new book Living Together: Myths, Risks, and Answer



fist.sensei -> RE: Christian author: Cohabitation a 'trial divorce,' not a trial marriage (4/7/2008 4:47:40 PM)

Ok, I'll bite [;)]

quote:

From the article:

But McManus says in reality it is more like a trial divorce. And in a new study highlighted in the book, couples who live together before marriage are 50 percent more likely to split before marriage, or divorce after marriage -- compared to couples who have never lived together.


This makes no sense. If it is supposed to be a "trial marriage", then what does the 50% "more likely to split before marriage" have to do with it?

Is that not the whole point according to the couple trying it out? To try it out?

I hope for his sake that the rest of the book is more clear and scientific.

This argument has been surfacing lately, but so far I haven't seen any investigation done well enough to prove anything one way or the other.

quote:

From the article:

"That's a huge swath of the American people," McManus contends. "It's actually diverted tens of millions of people from getting married at all."


Isn't that the whole point for most who chose this path?



iwillfearnoevil -> RE: Christian author: Cohabitation a 'trial divorce,' not a trial marriage (4/8/2008 9:13:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fist.sensei
Is that not the whole point according to the couple trying it out? To try it out?


i know you can look at stats in different manners and try to find one to best fit your bias, but it seems to me that if living together is a trial marriage and they "pass" the test and decide to get married that the author is stating they are more likely to divorce compared couples that weren't living together. so the trial is actually harmful and not good.



fist.sensei -> RE: Christian author: Cohabitation a 'trial divorce,' not a trial marriage (4/9/2008 12:07:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoevil
i know you can look at stats in different manners and try to find one to best fit your bias, but it seems to me that if living together is a trial marriage and they "pass" the test and decide to get married that the author is stating they are more likely to divorce compared couples that weren't living together. so the trial is actually harmful and not good.


I certainly think this is the case with this author.

I have heard the argument before, but I've just not seen the sort of unbiased research needed to sent trends.



benelchi -> RE: Christian author: Cohabitation a 'trial divorce,' not a trial marriage (4/9/2008 12:15:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fist.sensei

quote:

ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoevil
i know you can look at stats in different manners and try to find one to best fit your bias, but it seems to me that if living together is a trial marriage and they "pass" the test and decide to get married that the author is stating they are more likely to divorce compared couples that weren't living together. so the trial is actually harmful and not good.


I certainly think this is the case with this author.

I have heard the argument before, but I've just not seen the sort of unbiased research needed to sent trends.

Study: Living together may lead to breakups

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) --Couples in the United States who live together before marrying may be more likely to consider divorce than those who do not, according to a study released Wednesday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's health statistics division.

The report on marriage, divorce, remarriage and cohabitation said 75 percent of American women have been married by age 30 and about half have lived with their partner outside of marriage.

The study's findings are based on interviews conducted in 1995 with about 11,000 women ages 15 to 44.

Couples who did not live together before marrying had a 31 percent chance of splitting up after 10 years, compared with a 40 percent chance for couples who cohabited before marriage, the study found.



shelleyMM -> RE: Christian author: Cohabitation a 'trial divorce,' not a trial marriage (4/9/2008 6:57:55 PM)

Study: Living together may lead to breakups

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) --Couples in the United States who live together before marrying may be more likely to consider divorce than those who do not, according to a study released Wednesday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's health statistics division.

The report on marriage, divorce, remarriage and cohabitation said 75 percent of American women have been married by age 30 and about half have lived with their partner outside of marriage.

The study's findings are based on interviews conducted in 1995 with about 11,000 women ages 15 to 44.

Couples who did not live together before marrying had a 31 percent chance of splitting up after 10 years, compared with a 40 percent chance for couples who cohabited before marriage, the study found.
[/quote]

Are there any facts in regards to previous marital status? Or parental status? I mean... people who have been divorced once... are more likely to divorce again. Not because it's what they want!?! (Who WANTS to go through a divorce!?!) But because you know that you survived it once!?! And you CAN survive it again!?! It just seems like more of an option than if you've never been divorced. I would think that many of the people in the "Trial Marriage" stage in their lives are a little older... probably divorced... not wanting to make similar mistakes... do not plan on having children with this new person because they're pretty much past that point in their lives... feel a little older and wiser... and IF they end up deciding to marry after this "Trial Marriage"... are probably less likely to stay in an unhappy... unhealthy relationship. And do NOT have the added burden of trying to "stay married for their kids!?!" I just think there's a lot more to this than 31% this and 40% that. I would tend to question WHO these individuals are and WHY they are looking at the "Trial Marriage" as an option... and WHY they also ended up seeing divorce as an option. And... on a personal note... I am "cohabitating" with my future husband... and it is NOT a "Trial Marriage" by any stretch of the imagination. We ARE living together. We have his 2 children and my 1 son (ages 9, 15 and 19) living with us. We ALL go to church regularly. We've ALL given our hearts to the Lord. We ALL feel like this is an AMAZING FAMILY we're building here. And ALL of our loved one's (especially our kids) are VERY aware that we are an ABSTINENT couple... living together under the same roof... but NOT living as husband and wife in a sexual sense. We have committed to each other that we ARE going to wait for our wedding night!!! We are VERY proud of ourselves... and feel that we ARE being a wonderful example to everyone around us! People are amazed! And impressed! (And yes... MOST think we're crazy for waiting!?! Because MOST do NOT wait!!! Including Christians!?!) But... when we stand before our loved one's... and the Lord... saying our LIFE LONG VOWS TO EACH OTHER... we will KNOW that we have done the right thing!?! For Him... for our friends and family... for our kids who are watching our lives... and for US!!! And... by the way... we certainly are NOT "Super Christians!?!" We're just a couple of people who have fallen in love... are blending 2 families together to become 1... who can totally see themselves being 70 years old... sitting in church... holding hands... and who believe that they are living their best life... and being the best example that they can be.



Dakotasunbeam -> RE: Christian author: Cohabitation a 'trial divorce,' not a trial marriage (4/10/2008 11:47:41 PM)

As was already posted, cohabitation does have a higher divorce incidence. But I think it comes from the fact that some aspect of the relationship is degraded during the cohabitation phase. Obviously God didn't intend that, so it doesn't work. We run into trouble when we do things apart from Gods word. I think that's the main idea, that if you follow God's guidelines and standards and remain firmly committed to that, you will reach success in this area. Gods methods work. Ours don't.



Marcus. -> RE: Christian author: Cohabitation a 'trial divorce,' not a trial marriage (4/11/2008 2:35:53 PM)

One psychologist's opinion on the higher divorce rate among those who lived together before marriage was that they had a lower view on the marriage commitment and that was why they lived together first as well. Those who held a higher view were less likely to live together or get divorced.



shadowspring -> RE: Christian author: Cohabitation a 'trial divorce,' not a trial marriage (4/11/2008 3:48:56 PM)

Hmmm.

quote:

I would think that many of the people in the "Trial Marriage" stage in their lives are a little older... probably divorced... not wanting to make similar mistakes... do not plan on having children with this new person because they're pretty much past that point in their lives... feel a little older and wiser... and IF they end up deciding to marry after this "Trial Marriage"... are probably less likely to stay in an unhappy... unhealthy relationship.


Well, I know many younger couples living together, so just because you are an older co-habiting couple, I'm not sure that you are representative of very many co-habiting couples.

But I do think your post illustrates why so many with "trial marriages" don't make it long term. (But I hope your relationship lasts forever! May your wedding bring honor to the Lord. [:)])

You write that "older and wiser....are probably less likely to stay in an unhappy...unhealthy relationship".

The ideal marriage is one where both partners work very hard to make it a happy, healthy relationship. The health of the relationship is the responsibility of the couple. There is no running away from this responsibility in a successful marriage.

I think people who view the idea of a "trial marriage" as a good thing don't understand this. They seem to have some idea that when you take two sinners of opposite genders and put them in the same household together, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't, but there's no way to know ahead of time what will become of it all.

My husband and I KNEW we would have trouble! God's Word guarantees we will have trouble in this world! BUT I had/have no doubt about my husband's commitment to work out between us anything that goes awry. Neither he nor I will check out if things "go bad". We will work together (and keep working together) to make them good.

I don't think that anyone considering a "trial marriage" shares this view of reality and married life that my husband and I share.



Dakotasunbeam -> RE: Christian author: Cohabitation a 'trial divorce,' not a trial marriage (4/12/2008 7:42:58 PM)

Marcus,
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcus.

One psychologist's opinion on the higher divorce rate among those who lived together before marriage was that they had a lower view on the marriage commitment and that was why they lived together first as well. Those who held a higher view were less likely to live together or get divorced.

Very good point. I think cohabitation is a telling commentary on ones vieew of the marriage committment.

Shadowspring,

quote:

I think people who view the idea of a "trial marriage" as a good thing don't understand this. They seem to have some idea that when you take two sinners of opposite genders and put them in the same household together, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't, but there's no way to know ahead of time what will become of it all.

Excellent point. This is a pure nugget of gold. You should travel around the nation repeating this one statement. [:D] Relationships work out if we make them work out. People don't remain married because they were so compatible, constant chemistry, fairytale romance stuff, they stay married because they have personal integrity toward God that they WILL keep their vows, and they WILL do whatever is necessary (and godly) to make things work. It's like when you were a kid, you didn't know it was mom & dad that were paying the bills to keep the lights on and the water hot. You just thought it "happened."

There's no magic in marriage, only mystery.[;)]



Marcus. -> RE: Christian author: Cohabitation a 'trial divorce,' not a trial marriage (4/12/2008 8:18:35 PM)

Dakotasunbeam said in post 10:
quote:

It's like when you were a kid, you didn't know it was mom & dad that were paying the bills to keep the lights on and the water hot. You just thought it "happened."


When I was young I didn't even know you had to pay for the utilities. [;)]



Dakotasunbeam -> RE: Christian author: Cohabitation a 'trial divorce,' not a trial marriage (4/12/2008 8:26:03 PM)

LOL, me too!
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcus.

Dakotasunbeam said in post 10:
quote:

It's like when you were a kid, you didn't know it was mom & dad that were paying the bills to keep the lights on and the water hot. You just thought it "happened."


When I was young I didn't even know you had to pay for the utilities. [;)]



bella05 -> RE: Christian author: Cohabitation a 'trial divorce,' not a trial marriage (4/22/2008 8:16:17 PM)

Does anyone think cohabitation is not a wise decision either for Christians or non-Christians? I live in a very large liberal city, so you can say that I'm definitely living in the wilderness.
More and more I'm hearing about boyfriends and girlfriends moving in with each other. I've probably heard every reason possible as of why people decide to make this choice and I still am not convinced that it's a smart move. As Christians, I feel that we should hold our Christian friends accountable if they decide to live together before marriage. I feel that since it's becoming very popular, more people are becoming very accepting of it. And as we all know, this is not of God.

When Jesus met the Samaritan woman at the well, He said, "Go and get your husband". "I don't have a husband", the woman replied. "You're right! You do not have a husband - for you have had five husbands, and you aren't even married to the man you're living with now. You certainly spoke the truth! (John 4:16-18)NLT

I believe a woman earlier, Shelley, wrote that she lives with her fiance along with their children from previous marriages. It's terrible when marriages end in divorce and can be extremely painful. I can see why people decide to "live together with their current partner" after a divorce. However, it's wrong to do so outside the covenant of marriage. Here's a good passage from a well-known author:
"I am impressed that anyone fights for their marriage at all. The liberal mentality supporting a total lack of structure for people (hooking up, shacking up, out-of-wedlock children by choice, abortions for convenience, promiscuity no longer a dirty word) certainly works against especially younger people discovering and appreciating the blessings of having someone in your life as a part of a covenant. With so many of their parents divorcing- often multiple times-young people are afraid of hurt and loss so they "play" with intimacy without really risking much in hope that they can create "safe love" only to discover that such a situation doesn't exist and that they feel desperately lonely."

Also, as a teacher seeing this all the time, this can be very damaging to the innocence of a child, and also can harm them emotionally and psychologically. Marriage is probably valued less in their eyes. They may even be confused and disheartened about marriage. They may not show it now but as they become adults, it most likely will show and they may even decide to "shack-up". Adults feel entitled to their happiness and freedom, however it is a selfish act to live with your partner with children outside the covenant of marriage. Sorry to be so honest, but I'm a big advocate for children. I feel that their well-being should always be highly regarded.

I pray that the break down of families will not keep happening. Marriage is a wonderful commitment (where there's no abuse, etc.) and such a blessing from the Lord. There's a reason why families(adults and children) thrive in such a peaceful, loving, and committed home.
Blessings,
Bella



fist.sensei -> RE: Christian author: Cohabitation a 'trial divorce,' not a trial marriage (4/28/2008 2:06:07 PM)

While I feel my parent's divorce certainly stunted my emotional growth and maturity, I don't think that the marital status of parents "devalues" marriage in the kid's eyes.

My parents divorced when I was 5, it was #2 for both of them, and my ex-wife's parents had stuck through thick-and-then for 20+ years. However, she was the one that divorced me.



anjell66 -> RE: Christian author: Cohabitation a 'trial divorce,' not a trial marriage (5/3/2008 7:43:03 AM)

[bThank you so much for your comment. I appreciate that fact that you and your future husband have taken a vow of abstenence until your wedding night. The Lord will truely bless your new union. I am opposed to unhealthy marriages that hang on for the sake of the children. I believe that an unhealthy, unhappy family will do more damage to a child than a separation or divorce, it may cause a life long problems, as well as teaching children how to harbor resentful feeling, and it brings forth an new generation of children who learn how to handle issues with arguing, fighting and miscommunication skills. May the Lord continue to bless your family. [:)]



bella05 -> RE: Christian author: Cohabitation a 'trial divorce,' not a trial marriage (5/3/2008 3:46:46 PM)

"I am opposed to unhealthy marriages that hang on for the sake of the children."

What constitutes as an unhealthy marriage? When is divorce allowed? Is it Biblical to get a divorce for "irreconcilable differences" or "being unhappy"?
What ever happened to honor, commitment, and sacrifice? If everyone lived by the feeling of "happiness", this world would be a lot more chaotic than it already is.

"I believe that an unhealthy, unhappy family will do more damage to a child than a separation or divorce."

I'm a teacher and have seen how divorce impacts a child's life. It's sad and devastating to the child.
They always blame themselves for the divorce and would love to see their parents back together. When divorce happens, they don't live in a two-parent home anymore and get shuffled around like cattle between families. I ran an after school program(babysitting program) where children are stuck in school from 7AM until 6PM because the single-parent has to work.
Trust me, these children are not saying..."I'm glad my parents are divorced".

"It may cause a life long problems, as well as teaching children how to harbor resentful feeling, and it brings forth an new generation of children who learn how to handle issues with arguing, fighting and miscommunication skills"

Never heard that one. Parents do argue on occasion. I think that they should try their best and not do it in front of the children. But it's the breakdown of families that is "causes lifelong problems."



MissInnocent -> RE: Christian author: Cohabitation a 'trial divorce,' not a trial marriage (5/3/2008 9:47:33 PM)

While I COMPLETELY disagree with sex before marriage and think living together is not the best idea. And I believe the only reasons for divorce are abuse, adultery and abandonment...I will say that it IS wrong to just "stay together for the kids" and that I in no way EVER felt responsible for my parents divorce. Matter of fact I'm the reason they stayed together for as long as they did. They decided to have another child, me. When they finally did divorce my brother who saw all the grief in the marriage (there was adultery but even prior to that a LOT of fighting and drama) told them he was GLAD they were divorcing. And for the most part we've all been better off for it. I was never alone, my father was always in my life and I could come home to my grandmother when my mom was at work.

So Bella, not ALL children of divorce do feel guilty or wish their parents were still together. Just thought I'd give you an example opposite of what you've experienced with the children you've worked with.



bella05 -> RE: Christian author: Cohabitation a 'trial divorce,' not a trial marriage (5/4/2008 1:11:05 PM)

MissInnocent, maybe you're an exception and had family/friends around that you could go to while your mom was at work, which is really wonderful. And I'm sure that there are others. The majority of the children I know through school or through friends unfortunately don't have that privledge. Most of them just see their father on the weekends or maybe just once a month or even once a year. And again, are stuck in the school cafeteria until 6PM.

My father committed adultery for several years and my parents fought a lot. They separated for a few months when my siblings and I were young, elementary and middle school age. It was really painful. But they decided to make it work. They chose forgiveness, commitment, and sacrifice. Maybe not just for us, but definitely to honor their vows and their marital covenant. And most of all, God. It definitely wasn't easy but they decided to give up their selfish ways. Now, they have been married for almost 40 years. And their fighting is a distant memory.

No marriage is perfect. And in my opinion, to get a divorce because "we don't get along" is unbiblical. And that's sad because there are children and people who are hurting from it(Divorce is painful for any reason). I have a couple friends who are afraid to get married because their parents ended up in divorce. A friend of mine, who's father died a few years ago, recently told me that there was a slight hope in her that her parents would get back together.

A good book called, "The Proper Caring and Feeding on Marriage" by Dr. Laura really touches on how spouses mostly never put the blame on themselves. She's tough, honest, and seems harsh at times but some people really need to hear it. http://www.amazon.com/Proper-Care-Feeding-Marriage/dp/0061142840

Anyway, this post was originally for "cohabitation". And as I stated before is a 'big no no' in the Christian community, no matter what the reason or circumstance. I think people try to find validation for cohabitation. And because it's so popular and worldly, seculars even some Christians overlook the consequences. But we need to remember that "we are not of the world". Blessings.



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