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RE: EXPELLED - 4/21/2008 10:14:14 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 6596
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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Please. Split more hairs. That really makes your argument so much more impressive.
As does your ability to make things up as you go along.
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Because logic is like a good vaccination shot.
So it’s logical to conflate evolution and atheism?
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First off, you could prove evolution through test if you so chose. Take a bunch of foxes (like a Russian biology group did in the early sixties) and control the way they breed, attempting to domesticate them. After several groups of controlled offspring, you will note that the foxes (as the Russian group found) lost their smell, became friendly with humans, vocalized in a way unusual for foxes, developed elongated skulls, and developed lower adreneline production. These would be a collection of genetic mutations that had built up due to your directed implementation of survival of the fittest, and if continued long enough, would cause the "tame foxes" to become a species seperate from the Silver fox.
And what genetic tests were done to determine what genetic changes occurred?
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Your glibness belies your obvious brilliance. The simplest answer is that the complex systems happened over time. Hence the "millions of years." The small mutations built up so much that species differentiated, organ systems were formed, and adaptation occured. It's not rocket science. The dog experiment shows how it's easily possible.
Really? The ‘dog’ (foxes actually) experiment showed how “novel body plans, organs, and complex, interdependent structures.” developed? Where was that in the paper?
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Saying that the Darwinian Theory of Evolution is silly because of its complexity shows just how much that reading did for you. Apparently, if something in nature requires more than ten seconds of thought, it's either ridiculous or "goddidit."
I am not even sure this statement makes sense.
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At least you admitted that you're completely and hopelessly biased. Besides, evolution and the Darwinian Theory of Evolution are wholly secular. If you want to believe in god, fine. More power to you. First Amendment's great for that. But when you attempt to insert your biases into objective science, you don't prove anything except your own flawed logic by calling the offending idea "anti-whatever-you-are."
Hey, I was just confirming that you believe the science of evolution and the metaphysical belief in atheism are neccesarily intertwined.
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Unfortunately, we here in the twenty-first century tend to view our progress as a good thing. What with microwaves, vaccinations, the internet, pacemakers, liberal democracies, et cetera, et cetera.
Well, I have no problem with progress, though it’s good to understand the trade-offs.
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What does nano-machinery have to do with the price of tea in China? Please stay on topic, unless you realize that all of your arguments are utterly pointless, and are changing the subject to avoid having to continue it.
I don't think you have any idea what the topic is.
Nonetheless, if you know a little bit about the cell, you are familiar with the molecular mechanisms contained therein – also called nano-machinery.
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What, exactly, am I supposed to speak against? That complex nano-machines are made by people? Good for you. Show me where things in the natural world require an intelligence to run. I don't see god coming out of his heaven every afternoon to put fuel in horses.
Well, the cell is filled with complex information system driven molecular machinery; perhaps you think people made it, but ID wouldn’t go that far.
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If you'd like to see my discussion on the validity of abiogenesis, please see my earlier comments. I'm tired of repeating myself ad nauseum for you and your ilk.
Oh yeah, I forgot, “abiogenesis is a theory that works well with what we've observed”. Who could argue with that overwhelming evidence?
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Good. My first bull ex officio would be to finally send you all to Saudi Arabia, where the religious ignorance flows like milk and honey.
Now I’m remembering why we don’t want atheists in charge…guess Ben Stein was right after all.
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Ooh, aren't we clever! Maybe next you'll tell me that I have a rubber butt, or some comment me being an ickyface. I would deserve it, after all. I'm such an evil gay atheist liberal demon worshipper. Watch out! I'm coming to steal Christmas and step on the Easter eggs.
Or maybe I will call you a luddite – oh, wait, that was your ad hom.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-200
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/21/2008 10:25:15 PM
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DanJames
Posts: 392
Joined: 12/13/2007
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Come on, Jack. Let's bring this conversation back around to Ben Stein's documentary. Throw out a troll about ID being suppressed in colleges by denying tenure or something like that. How about that guy that made the Privileged Planet documentary and now doesn't think he's going to be able to stay at University of Iowa.
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/21/2008 10:33:12 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 6596
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
Come on, Jack. Let's bring this conversation back around to Ben Stein's documentary. Throw out a troll about ID being suppressed in colleges by denying tenure or something like that. How about that guy that made the Privileged Planet documentary and now doesn't think he's going to be able to stay at University of Iowa.
You're right, I am wasting my time on a short timer again. Speaking of folks who were expelled, it looks like Gonzalez got a new job.
Good for him.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-200
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/21/2008 10:39:22 PM
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DanJames
Posts: 392
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
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Come on, Jack. Let's bring this conversation back around to Ben Stein's documentary. Throw out a troll about ID being suppressed in colleges by denying tenure or something like that. How about that guy that made the Privileged Planet documentary and now doesn't think he's going to be able to stay at University of Iowa.
You're right, I am wasting my time on a short timer again. Speaking of folks who were expelled, it looks like Gonzalez got a new job.
Good for him.
Well, I'm happy for him. I guess his skills might be better suited for a Christian College... it's just a shame that he had to go that route. Perhaps the students he influences will become the professors of secular colleges in the days to come.
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/21/2008 11:49:50 PM
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Sartrian
Posts: 54
Joined: 4/21/2008
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You all will have to pardon me-- I find having a small dinner and watching some television to be far more engrossing than prodding at the happily deluded theists in their cages. I'll try not to let it happen again.
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As does your ability to make things up as you go along.
How does the old saying go? Sticks and stones will break my bones, but your attempts to rewrite reality are laughable and pathetic?
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So it’s logical to conflate evolution and atheism?
You were the one who implied that all evolutionary biologists are atheists. I simply implied that working in science quickly rids one of their subjective, irrational beliefs.
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And what genetic tests were done to determine what genetic changes occurred?
"To examine what genetic and molecular mechanisms underlie these dramatic changes, the researchers studied the activities of thousands of genes in the brain of selected and non-selected silver foxes and compared the activity of these genes with that of genes in the brains of wild foxes."
--Jazin et al.: "Selection for tameness has changed brain gene expression in silver foxes." Publishing in Current Biology, Vol. 15, R915-R916, November 22, 2005, DOI 10.1016/j.cub.2005.11.009
Well, how about that, Bubba?
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Really? The ‘dog’ (foxes actually) experiment showed how “novel body plans, organs, and complex, interdependent structures.” developed? Where was that in the paper?
"Physically, the foxes differ markedly from their wild relatives. Some of the differences have obvious links to the changes in their social behavior. In dogs, for example, it is well known that the first weeks of life are crucial for forming primary social bonds with human beings. The "window" of bonding opens when a puppy becomes able to sense and explore its surroundings, and it closes when the pup starts to fear unknown stimuli.
According to our studies, nondomesticated fox pups start responding to auditory stimuli on day 16 after birth, and their eyes are completely open by day 18 or 19. On average, our domesticated fox pups respond to sounds two days earlier and open their eyes a day earlier than their nondomesticated cousins. Nondomesticated foxes first show the fear response at 6 weeks of age; domesticated ones show it after 9 weeks or even later. (Dogs show it at 8 to 12 weeks, depending on the breed.) As a result, domesticated pups have more time to become incorporated into a human social environment.
Moreover, we have found that the delayed development of the fear response is linked to changes in plasma levels of corticosteroids, hormones concerned with an animal's adaptation to stress. In foxes, the level of corticosteroids rises sharply between the ages of 2 to 4 months and reach adult levels by the age of 8 months. One of our studies found that the more advanced an animal's selection for domesticated behavior was, the later it showed the fear response and the later came the surge in its plasma corticosteroids. Thus, selection for domestication gives rises to changes in the timing of the postnatal development of certain physiological and hormonal mechanisms underlying the formation of social behavior.
Other physical changes mirror those in dogs and other domesticated animals. In our foxes, novel traits began to appear in the eighth to tenth selected generations. The first ones we noted were changes in the foxes' coat color, chiefly a loss of pigment in certain areas of the body, leading in some cases to a star-shaped pattern on the face similar to that seen in some breeds of dog. Next came traits such as floppy ears and rolled tails similar to those in some breeds of dog. After 15 to 20 generations we noted the appearance of foxes with shorter tails and legs and with underbites or overbites. The novel traits are still fairly rare. Most of them show up in no more than a few animals per 100 to a few per 10,000. Some have been seen in commercial populations, though at levels at least a magnitude lower than we recorded in our domesticated foxes."
--Published by American Scientist, Vol. 87 No. 2 (March-April 1999)
Article by Lyudmila N. Trut, Ph.D.
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I am not even sure this statement makes sense.
It means that calling Evolution a failed theory because of its complex implications is idiotic.
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Hey, I was just confirming that you believe the science of evolution and the metaphysical belief in atheism are neccesarily intertwined.
Nope. Evolution is a function of nature, and thus, without any sort of subjective meaning. Try again.
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Well, I have no problem with progress, though it’s good to understand the trade-offs.
What? Gender equality, sexual equality, an end to racism, secular government that doesn't oppress people who don't belong to the right clique? You'll have to tell me.
I don't think you have any idea what the topic is.
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Nonetheless, if you know a little bit about the cell, you are familiar with the molecular mechanisms contained therein – also called nano-machinery.
Who, exactly calls the molecular processes inside of cells "nano-machinery?" The general use of the term nano-machinery refers to a field of robotics on the sub-microscopic level.
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Now I’m remembering why we don’t want atheists in charge…guess Ben Stein was right after all.
Oh, come now. Can't a godless heathen make a joke now and then? We have such wonderful senses of humor-- you should hear the "Intelligent Design" jokes. You'd die laughing.
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Or maybe I will call you a luddite – oh, wait, that was your ad hom.
You could call me a Luddite. Oh, wait. Except that I'm for the progress of technology and ideas that will benefit all humanity, rather than my own little insular cult. Oops! Sorry!
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/22/2008 1:05:30 AM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1034
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
You're right, I am wasting my time on a short timer again.
Given his demeaning attitude, I don't think he will stay here much longer. Just ignore him until he gets banned. He also seems to be copy and paste happy, which doesn't really tell me that he understands what he's citing (ie: it looks like he copied that entire American Scientist quote and people who do that, instead of engaging in actual discussions, tend to not have a clue what they are talking about). There is nothing wrong with citing your sources, but when you copy and paste entire pages at a time and use them directly as your argument (instead of putting things in your own words in a manner responsive to what you are criticizing) then, given our experience, that tends to suggest that you don't know what you are talking about (though I can be wrong in any specific case). In any event, I think you might find this interesting.
Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed. Galapagos Finch Reviews the Reviews.
Dang, look at them polls. There seems to be no middle ground on this issue. Someone also posted this.
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ORIGINAL: jinxmchue
I’d say maybe one-third to a half of the 5-star raters haven’t seen the film and over 90% of the 1-star raters haven’t.
Id's say he's about right. Furthermore, I suspect that about 90% of the one star raters who did see the film either saw a pirated version of it or they paid for another movie and snuck in this one. Of course, I can't prove this, just my personal suspicions.
< Message edited by Bettawrekonize -- 4/22/2008 1:11:56 AM >
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/22/2008 2:30:40 PM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1034
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: Jhud
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"Besides, evolution is completely rational for one simple reason (that I keep repeating, BTW). All life forms on Earth share genes. Such an occurrence would only be possible if all life forms sprung from a common ancestry. That ancestry would have to be an agent simpler than even bacteria.
Again, this is a nonsense conclusion; it’s like saying “all computers share operating systems, and therefore all computers sprung from a common ancestor via unguided means”. Common design does not demonstrate unguided development, and so is not support for the mechanisms of evolution.
It seems like evolutionists can't find any real evidence for evolution, so they try to see everything as evidence for evolution. Commonalities, some alleged hierarchy, the fact that the sky is blue (exaggerating). I guess this is what happens when you insist that evolution is true yet you can't find evidence for it, you must resort to turning things that aren't evidence into evidence.
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/22/2008 3:04:09 PM
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DanJames
Posts: 392
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline
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Well, I'm certain that Arthur Caplan of MSNBC has seen the documentary because nobody could give such a shockingly incorrect description of the film as he has without actually having seen it.
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/22/2008 9:48:38 PM
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drj11
Posts: 274
Joined: 3/29/2008
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And yet another wonderful review hailing from Waco, home of Baylor Uni, one of the schools implicated in Expelled as part of the VAC (Vast Atheistic Conspiracy).
http://www.wacotrib.com/news/content/news/stories/2008/04/19/04192008wacexpelledrvw.html
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Those coming to Expelled hoping to learn something about any research behind ID, a fair appraisal of weaknesses in evolutionary theories or — perhaps the film’s most glaring and telling omission — how Christian evolutionists reconcile faith and science will leave sorely disappointed. The latter is quickly dismissed by a chain of quotes that brand them as liberal Christians and duped by militant atheists in their efforts to get religion out of the classroom.
Even though interviewees on opposite sides of the discussion qualify their statements with “it depends on how you define evolution,” Expelled conveniently blurs the definitions of evolution, biological evolution, Darwinism, neo-Darwinism and origin of life.
Stein also frames and underlines certain comments with visual clips from such movies as Inherit the Wind, The Wizard of Oz, The Planet of the Apes, black-and-white 1950s educational movies and Cold War propaganda films with marching Communist armies.
Viewers also are treated to Stein’s argument that evolution leads to disbelief in God, the loss of ethical and moral standards, eugenics, Nazism and the Holocaust, Planned Parenthood and abortion, before returning to the issue of academic freedom and equating science’s resistance to ID as a Berlin Wall that needs tearing down.
I will give it to them, it's clever how any and all criticism of the documentary can be used to justify the false message it attempts to send.
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/23/2008 1:47:17 AM
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Sartrian
Posts: 54
Joined: 4/21/2008
Status: offline
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Given his demeaning attitude, I don't think he will stay here much longer. Just ignore him until he gets banned. He also seems to be copy and paste happy, which doesn't really tell me that he understands what he's citing (ie: it looks like he copied that entire American Scientist quote and people who do that, instead of engaging in actual discussions, tend to not have a clue what they are talking about). There is nothing wrong with citing your sources, but when you copy and paste entire pages at a time and use them directly as your argument (instead of putting things in your own words in a manner responsive to what you are criticizing) then, given our experience, that tends to suggest that you don't know what you are talking about (though I can be wrong in any specific case). In any event, I think you might find this interesting.
Right. The 13-year-old who thinks a good rebuttal consists of saying somebody's wrong without any evidence to back up his assertions thinks I'm arguing poorly. It wounds me to the very core of my being. Ouch.
See, if you had used a little bit of that observational power ID nuts are so famous for, you would have noted that Jhud had asked for any proof of what I was saying. I posted a portion of two different reports that backed up my assertion. They were citations that had validity in regards to my argument, and in fact, if I were trying to obfuscate my argument, I could have posted the entirety of both papers instead of the sections I posted. Don't throw a tantrum just because I backed up my assertions when you couldn't.
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It seems like evolutionists can't find any real evidence for evolution, so they try to see everything as evidence for evolution. Commonalities, some alleged hierarchy, the fact that the sky is blue (exaggerating). I guess this is what happens when you insist that evolution is true yet you can't find evidence for it, you must resort to turning things that aren't evidence into evidence.
The tame silver fox experiment provided marvelous evidence of evolution. Maybe you ought to read my claims, and the posts I provided that backed up said claims. Of course, that would require that you read the materials with an open mind, which may be too shaky a demand for you, hein?
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Well, I'm certain that Arthur Caplan of MSNBC has seen the documentary because nobody could give such a shockingly incorrect description of the film as he has without actually having seen it.
That's right. It's another one of those evilutionist conspiracies. Just look-- he's got a "Ph.D" in his title! He must be in cahoots with the Evil Atheist Conspiracy (tm).
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the loss of ethical and moral standards
Down from, "...and every firstborn in the land of Egypt will die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sits on his throne to the firstborn of the slave woman who is behind the millstones, and every firstborn animal. And there will be a great cry throughout the entire land of Egypt, such as there never has been and such as there shall never be again." Those are exceptional moral standards-- infanticide over an entire nation!
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eugenics
Anybody who thinks that the Darwinian Theory of Evolution promotes eugenics is a moron who ought to be laughed at. Vigorously.
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Nazism and the Holocaust
"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator."
--Mein Kampf, pg. 46
"And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God."
--Mein Kampf, pg. 174
"But if out of smugness, or even cowardice, this battle is not fought to its end, then take a look at the peoples five hundred years from now. I think you will find but few images of God, unless you want to profane the Almighty."
--Mein Kampf, vol. 1, ch. 10
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Planned Parenthood and abortion
Actually, the idea of treating women like adults who can take care of their bodies the way they want to is the foundation of Planned Parenthood. And abortion has been going on since the beginning of humanity-- I don't think you can pin that one on evolution.
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before returning to the issue of academic freedom and equating science’s resistance to ID as a Berlin Wall that needs tearing down.
"Revolution" as a term can also mean "going in a full circle, back to where you started."
< Message edited by Sartrian -- 4/23/2008 5:03:37 AM >
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/24/2008 8:29:50 PM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 516
Joined: 10/14/2007
From: Inglewood, CA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DanJames
Which interviewee was not an employee of the organization of which he claimed to not be an employee? Please tell me because you're basically saying that Ben Stein and ALL the producers of this documentary are liars.
DanJames, have you determined what the truth of the matter is with respect to Dr. Sternberg? Have you determined who, if anyone, is lying?
If it adds to the data points, the Smithsonian's Director of Public Affairs wrote a letter (bottom of page) published in Newsweek on the issue.
I'm not trying to badger you; I respect your honesty and intelligence, and just would like you to look into the matter for yourself, rather than rely on either me or Ben Stein.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/24/2008 9:04:01 PM
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DanJames
Posts: 392
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
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ORIGINAL: DanJames
Which interviewee was not an employee of the organization of which he claimed to not be an employee? Please tell me because you're basically saying that Ben Stein and ALL the producers of this documentary are liars.
DanJames, have you determined what the truth of the matter is with respect to Dr. Sternberg? Have you determined who, if anyone, is lying?
If it adds to the data points, the Smithsonian's Director of Public Affairs wrote a letter (bottom of page) published in Newsweek on the issue.
I'm not trying to badger you; I respect your honesty and intelligence, and just would like you to look into the matter for yourself, rather than rely on either me or Ben Stein.
I appreciate the compliment. I haven't looked into any of it. To say that someone never even worked for the company is, in effect, saying that Stein, et al are liars and made the whole thing up.
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Too bad you've been totally mislead. One of their interviewees who got 'expelled' wasn't even an employee in the first place.
I didn't intend to disagree with drj because I don't haven't struck a single key to research this documentary; I simply wanted to know where this accusation comes from. I mean, come on, he NEVER worked for the company that he claims fired him?
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/24/2008 9:44:54 PM
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drj11
Posts: 274
Joined: 3/29/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DanJames
I appreciate the compliment. I haven't looked into any of it. To say that someone never even worked for the company is, in effect, saying that Stein, et al are liars and made the whole thing up.
I didn't intend to disagree with drj because I don't haven't struck a single key to research this documentary; I simply wanted to know where this accusation comes from. I mean, come on, he NEVER worked for the company that he claims fired him?
Apparently he was on contract... but the contract didn't get renewed when the term was up. The statistic I read said around 70% of those contracts don't actually get renewed in the first place.
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/24/2008 10:46:56 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 6596
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
I didn't intend to disagree with drj because I don't haven't struck a single key to research this documentary; I simply wanted to know where this accusation comes from. I mean, come on, he NEVER worked for the company that he claims fired him?
Here is a Congressional report
And the addendum.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-200
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/25/2008 10:19:32 AM
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DanJames
Posts: 392
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
I didn't intend to disagree with drj because I don't haven't struck a single key to research this documentary; I simply wanted to know where this accusation comes from. I mean, come on, he NEVER worked for the company that he claims fired him?
Here is a Congressional report
And the addendum.
Oh dear:
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In emails exchanged during August and September 2004, NMNH officials revealed their intent to use their government jobs to discriminate against scientists based on their outside activities regarding evolution. For example, Dr. Hans Sues, Associate Director for Research and Collections, suggested in emails on August 30, 2004, and again on September 9, 2004, that Dr. Sternberg would never have been appointed as an RA if Smithsonian officials had known about his non-governmental activities regarding evolution. Sues even blamed the scientist who nominated Sternberg as a Research Associate for not adequately investigating his background: “Sternberg is a well-established figure in anti-evolution circles, and a simple Google search would have exposed these connections.”6 The clear implication was that had a background check been conducted on Sternberg’s non-governmental activities, he would have been barred from being a Research Associate.
emphasis mine
So they want to do background checks to make sure we aren't involved with any terrorist- oops I mean anti-evolutionist organizations.
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/25/2008 10:20:43 AM
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DanJames
Posts: 392
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drj11
quote:
ORIGINAL: DanJames
I appreciate the compliment. I haven't looked into any of it. To say that someone never even worked for the company is, in effect, saying that Stein, et al are liars and made the whole thing up.
I didn't intend to disagree with drj because I don't haven't struck a single key to research this documentary; I simply wanted to know where this accusation comes from. I mean, come on, he NEVER worked for the company that he claims fired him?
Apparently he was on contract... but the contract didn't get renewed when the term was up. The statistic I read said around 70% of those contracts don't actually get renewed in the first place.
What report did you read?
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/25/2008 5:57:02 PM
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unclemonkey
Posts: 1660
Joined: 5/14/2006
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ORIGINAL:Jhudquote:
Have you seen the film?
I haven't been to a theatre in years, but I am planning on going to see Expelled next Tuesday.
_____________________________
Visit my home church.
Also consider Life's Most Important Queston
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/25/2008 6:02:50 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 6596
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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I haven't been to a theatre in years, but I am planning on going to see Expelled next Tuesday.
That's great unk; bring a bunch of folks with you!
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-200
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/25/2008 10:00:00 PM
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PROPHETSONG
Posts: 111
Joined: 9/21/2006
From: PHILADELPHIA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DanJames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
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I didn't intend to disagree with drj because I don't haven't struck a single key to research this documentary; I simply wanted to know where this accusation comes from. I mean, come on, he NEVER worked for the company that he claims fired him?
Here is a Congressional report
And the addendum.
It is funny that in all there attempts to eliminate the opposing argument that they are actually giving that argument validation. If evolution was on solid ground then they would not afraid of counter argument. I think what we are seing here is Darwinist protecting a theory that is shakey, trying to protect their flow of government grants. The evolutionist stand to lose billions, when evolution is disproven. "Expelled"has exposed much already.
Oh dear:
quote:
In emails exchanged during August and September 2004, NMNH officials revealed their intent to use their government jobs to discriminate against scientists based on their outside activities regarding evolution. For example, Dr. Hans Sues, Associate Director for Research and Collections, suggested in emails on August 30, 2004, and again on September 9, 2004, that Dr. Sternberg would never have been appointed as an RA if Smithsonian officials had known about his non-governmental activities regarding evolution. Sues even blamed the scientist who nominated Sternberg as a Research Associate for not adequately investigating his background: “Sternberg is a well-established figure in anti-evolution circles, and a simple Google search would have exposed these connections.”6 The clear implication was that had a background check been conducted on Sternberg’s non-governmental activities, he would have been barred from being a Research Associate.
emphasis mine
So they want to do background checks to make sure we aren't involved with any terrorist- oops I mean anti-evolutionist organizations.
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JER 1: 18 Today I have made you a fortified city, an iron pillar and a bronze wall to stand against the whole land--against the kings of Judah, its officials, its priests and the people of the land.
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/25/2008 10:17:40 PM
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PROPHETSONG
Posts: 111
Joined: 9/21/2006
From: PHILADELPHIA
Status: offline
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It is funny that in all there attempts to eliminate the opposing argument that they are actually giving that argument validation. If evolution was on solid ground then they would not afraid of counter argument. I think what we are seing here is Darwinist protecting a theory that is shakey, trying to protect their flow of government grants. The evolutionist stand to lose billions, when evolution is disproven. "Expelled"has exposed much already.
I access an article on line that, was lying about so called myths of evolution, which were actually scientific facts, that suported the opposing argument.
After posting a statement about the invalidity of the fossil records pre- historic records of modern man. They have records of any of those remains being found in intact in the same place for instance they find part of the remains in one place then find another part hundreds of yards away, which indicate that they may be putting two different creature together creating something that never existed at all.
When I tried to post that reply they refuse to allowit to post until I provided an name and e-mail. Which to me was very strange. They want to be able to track any one that disagrees with evolution in any way.
I was able to create a screen name and use an old e-mail that no longer existed and still posted the reply.
It is funny that this is the only news article that I have ever needed e-mail information to post a reply to.
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JER 1: 18 Today I have made you a fortified city, an iron pillar and a bronze wall to stand against the whole land--against the kings of Judah, its officials, its priests and the people of the land.
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/25/2008 10:25:45 PM
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unclemonkey
Posts: 1660
Joined: 5/14/2006
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL:Jhudquote:
That's great unk; bring a bunch of folks with you!
I was planning on taking a carload, but I can’t seem to locate a drive-in. Do you have that problem in your area?
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Visit my home church.
Also consider Life's Most Important Queston
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/26/2008 1:04:22 AM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1034
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PROPHETSONG
It is funny that this is the only news article that I have ever needed e-mail information to post a reply to.
I don't like the fact that Jhud (and perhaps others) are open about who they are. There seems to be some people that may unfairly discriminate against them for questioning evolution. It's their choice though and I'm sure evolutionists can find out who any of us are if they really wanted to (it probably wouldn't be too hard unless someone put a lot of effort into preventing themselves from being found). It's unfortunate that evolution has come to rely on dishonest discrimination against those who question it in order to survive. Fortunately, God is in control. Those who imply that the conspiracy is on Christians must realize the opposite is in fact true. Those who oppose God are going up against an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent entity that they do not want to mess with. Hopefully they get saved instead.
< Message edited by Bettawrekonize -- 4/26/2008 1:22:33 AM >
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/26/2008 12:05:56 PM
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drj11
Posts: 274
Joined: 3/29/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
quote:
ORIGINAL: PROPHETSONG
It is funny that this is the only news article that I have ever needed e-mail information to post a reply to.
I don't like the fact that Jhud (and perhaps others) are open about who they are. There seems to be some people that may unfairly discriminate against them for questioning evolution. It's their choice though and I'm sure evolutionists can find out who any of us are if they really wanted to (it probably wouldn't be too hard unless someone put a lot of effort into preventing themselves from being found). It's unfortunate that evolution has come to rely on dishonest discrimination against those who question it in order to survive. Fortunately, God is in control. Those who imply that the conspiracy is on Christians must realize the opposite is in fact true. Those who oppose God are going up against an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent entity that they do not want to mess with. Hopefully they get saved instead.
I don't have any problem with questioning evolution at all.
If evolution went the way of the dodo tomorrow, it still doesn't make creationism or ID any less incorrect than they are now.
Unfortunately, scientists claiming pseudoscience is actually science does speak quite heavily to their qualifications to teach people on matters of science. It looks pretty clear that the cases in expelled were trumped up and exaggerated, but I honestly wouldn't have a problem with them if they weren't. Its not discrimination... unless by discrimination you mean the good sense to make sure your employees are qualified for the roles you want them to fulfill.
And just FYI... going up against creationism and ID, is not going against God.. it is going up against some of his more misguided followers... who most definitely aren't omnipotent, omniscient, nor omnipresent. The Bible is so horribly misused by literalists, its really a shame to see. I hope you see reason one day.
< Message edited by drj11 -- 4/26/2008 12:44:10 PM >
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RE: EXPELLED - 4/26/2008 12:16:02 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 1448
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
the theory | | |
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