RE: The Bush administration made HUNDREDS of false statements about Iraq before the 2003 invasion
View related threads:
(in this forum
| in all forums)
|
Logged in as: Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
|
[Poll]
|
War in Iraq
|
| We are in Iraq because of oil |
|
| We are in Iraq to liberate the less fortunate |
|
| We are in Iraq to protect Israel |
|
| We are in Iraq to stop terrorists |
|
| We are in Iraq for some other reason |
|
Total Votes : 419
|
(last vote on : 8/29/2008 7:56:52 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: The Bush administration made HUNDREDS of false stat... - 3/26/2008 2:40:31 PM
|
|
|
wing2000
Posts: 925
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
I've noticed that the Iraqi's are the ones staging the big operation in Basra. I'm going to congratulate them and chew on my tongue awhile so I don't let out with a scream:
It's about TIME!
Yes. It's a great event isn't it? Looks much like victory (which gets asked quite a bit around here...), doesn't it?
YEaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now that we've won, can we go home now?
...ironically, the Brits have effectively pulled out of Basara.....and look what happens...the Iraqi government finally gets off it's but....
So what are we waiting for....?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Bush administration made HUNDREDS of false stat... - 3/26/2008 11:44:33 PM
|
|
|
rlj
Posts: 1832
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
...ironically, the Brits have effectively pulled out of Basara.....and look what happens...the Iraqi government finally gets off it's but....
I swear there was this no good True Liberal Islamo-Fascist Satanist Commie Bush Basher on this forum that used to say that maybe if we'd leave or actually make the Iraqi government and people do something for themselves that maybe things would improve. Wow, whodathunkit?
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Bush administration made HUNDREDS of false stat... - 3/26/2008 11:53:36 PM
|
|
|
rlj
Posts: 1832
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Yes. It's a great event isn't it? Looks much like victory (which gets asked quite a bit around here...), doesn't it?
It's good I'll await the results before deciding if it's great. In my mind this is their Saratoga or the swan song of an awful lot of dead US troops through the coming years.
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Bush administration made HUNDREDS of false stat... - 3/27/2008 11:37:21 AM
|
|
|
cow451
Posts: 3859
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
|
Sounds like Basra is still hot. It'll be great if the Iraqi military prevails. If they don't ...... that light at the end of the tunnel is an RPG round.
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Bush administration made HUNDREDS of false stat... - 3/27/2008 9:06:28 PM
|
|
|
lightshineon
Posts: 3391
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
On war here is my view nothing is done with out God's say so. God wanted Hussien taken off the throe. The word say's God puts kd someday it will Kings on thrones, and takes them down.Tell me what war, has ever been, or what people thought was fair. I have been a homemaker for many years, and though college educated. I have forgotten, or too lazy to look-up why other wars started. Some arch duke, was killed started WW 1, or 11. The Korean war, boundries I believe, sorry I just am so lazy. The civil war, was really about economics. We got i the second world war because, the Japanese bombed the Arizona. I am sure some ifo. is not correct, like I said am lazy to look up things. I guess I could ask my husbad, but he would not tell me, because The TarHeels, are in this March Madness game thing.
Here is my point, why are we so mad about this war, compared to the others? If the almighty is in control, which I know he is beyod a doubt, according to scripture, we need to look at it with spiritual eyes, we do not know what Gods plan is. GWB has no power, except that which is given from above. War is ugly, and like it or not wars will continue to the end of days. Maybe God Almighty was tired of Saddam Hussien, boiling people in acid vats. He was cruel and evil along with his sons who raped, and murdered young girls. I say " Yes" yoohoo They pulled the old Nebbucazerr statue down. One of the saddest things I have ever seen was a bloted Kurd baby, which Chemical Ali, on a whim, had gassed a kurd village. Why Saddam? I know other there are other evil dictators, but maybe God was sickened, and had compassion on the Iraq people. Especially the little ones. Sorry cannot see again mascara on contact lens. I will provide scripture, our own understanding is just so limited, God all powerful decides everything, it will line up in the end with his plan. And other dictators maybe his plan is different, who are we to judge God. If scripture is needed chp and verse, let me know that is something I can. provide.
Blessings light. btw the troops they signed up, and not drafted. I am proud of them. Ps please no rants tonight, be kind and repectful to my view, on Christanity, I can prove it.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Bush administration made HUNDREDS of false stat... - 3/28/2008 12:52:54 AM
|
|
|
wing2000
Posts: 925
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
BAGHDAD, March 27 -- U.S. forces in armored vehicles battled Mahdi Army fighters Thursday in Sadr City, the vast Shiite stronghold in eastern Baghdad, as an offensive to quell party-backed militias entered its third day. Iraqi army and police units appeared to be largely holding to the outskirts of the area as American troops took the lead in the fighting.
.... The Mahdi Army of cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, a Shiite rival of Maliki, appeared to have taken the brunt of the attacks; fighting spread to many southern cities and parts of Baghdad.
link
- a curfew is in effect in Baghdad for 3 days -- US officials have been ordered to stay inside buidings (yes, in the Gree Zone) due to incoming mortar and rocket fire
- a key Iraqi security official was kidnapped from his home in broad daylight
- The Sadr army is engaged in combat with US forces (so much for the cease fire agreement...
-- in Basara, it remains to be seen if the Iraqi Army can handle their first major military engagement without the Brits or Americans
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Bush administration made HUNDREDS of false stat... - 3/28/2008 1:28:02 AM
|
|
|
rlj
Posts: 1832
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
The Sadr army is engaged in combat with US forces (so much for the cease fire agreement...
The Iraqi's really broke that but Mehdi was losing control of his militia for the last several days. Welp, so much for the Iraqi's actually being able to do something on their own.
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Bush administration made HUNDREDS of false stat... - 3/30/2008 12:41:28 AM
|
|
|
RichLP
Posts: 1790
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
|
Something that the Bush administration told us was that in time, Iraqi troops and other Iraqi security personnel would be trained, armed, and would then take over the responsibilities of providing order. What was that - Iraqis stand up, we stand down? A reminder of "Vietnamization?"
Well, it was not too long ago that a study said that the Iraqi security forces were so corrupt and infiltrated by militias that it was recommended that they were dismantled and re-built from scratch.
Now, as the Iraqi government attempts to force Moqtada Al-Sadr's Mahdi Army to surrnder (there is absolutely no way the Mahdi Army will accept Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's ultimatum that the Mahdi Army surrender its weapons and cease fighting - now, the ultimatum has been watered down to money for weapons), I am not surprised, and I am certainly unhappy, to learn that some members of the Iraqi government's security forces - namely, police personnel - refused to fire on the Mahdi Army and mutinied.
Iraqi forces, even with US air support (which has targeted Mahdi Army positions), have failed to overrun or to drive back Mahdi Army forces.
Further, on Saturday March 29, 2 US troops were killed. This follows the death of another US soldier on Friday, March 28. As for Iraqi casualties, over 300 were reported killed on Friday and Saturday.
This situation, with a focal point of violence in the Shiite Basra region in southern Iraq, is problematic for the US military presence as the fighting is not going well, as the British (who were there in charge and now have turned over control to the Iraqis) are not participating in the fighting, and as the Bush administration had a hands-off approach there precisely because of the British presence (and therefore, has few options and limited influence there).
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
|
|
|
|
|
RE: War in Iraq - 3/30/2008 2:12:56 PM
|
|
|
tracydolls
Posts: 1352
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
Status: offline
|
I find it a little funny that we control the ancient city of Babylon. Basra, Iraq, where alot of fighting is going on today. I'm not of the mentality that Sadam killed people , so we should kill him and alot of innocents.
"Thou shall not kill" period.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: War in Iraq - 3/30/2008 2:54:12 PM
|
|
|
lightshineon
Posts: 3391
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Well Tracy, like I said God puts kings on thrones and takes them down. Thou shall not murder, is the thing. How would you have lke to live under Saddam Hussien? Hitler maybe? Hey God had this man taken down of his throne. I can prove this statement by scripture.
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
I find it a little funny that we control the ancient city of Babylon. Basra, Iraq, where alot of fighting is going on today. I'm not of the mentality that Sadam killed people , so we should kill him and alot of innocents.
"Thou shall not kill" period.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Bush administration made HUNDREDS of false stat... - 3/30/2008 8:18:34 PM
|
|
|
henny
Posts: 1276
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: MN
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
On war here is my view nothing is done with out God's say so. God wanted Hussien taken off the throe. The word say's God puts kd someday it will Kings on thrones, and takes them down.Tell me what war, has ever been, or what people thought was fair. I have been a homemaker for many years, and though college educated. I have forgotten, or too lazy to look-up why other wars started. Some arch duke, was killed started WW 1, or 11. The Korean war, boundries I believe, sorry I just am so lazy. The civil war, was really about economics. We got i the second world war because, the Japanese bombed the Arizona. I am sure some ifo. is not correct, like I said am lazy to look up things. I guess I could ask my husbad, but he would not tell me, because The TarHeels, are in this March Madness game thing.
Here is my point, why are we so mad about this war, compared to the others? If the almighty is in control, which I know he is beyod a doubt, according to scripture, we need to look at it with spiritual eyes, we do not know what Gods plan is. GWB has no power, except that which is given from above. War is ugly, and like it or not wars will continue to the end of days. Maybe God Almighty was tired of Saddam Hussien, boiling people in acid vats. He was cruel and evil along with his sons who raped, and murdered young girls. I say " Yes" yoohoo They pulled the old Nebbucazerr statue down. One of the saddest things I have ever seen was a bloted Kurd baby, which Chemical Ali, on a whim, had gassed a kurd village. Why Saddam? I know other there are other evil dictators, but maybe God was sickened, and had compassion on the Iraq people. Especially the little ones. Sorry cannot see again mascara on contact lens. I will provide scripture, our own understanding is just so limited, God all powerful decides everything, it will line up in the end with his plan. And other dictators maybe his plan is different, who are we to judge God. If scripture is needed chp and verse, let me know that is something I can. provide.
Blessings light. btw the troops they signed up, and not drafted. I am proud of them. Ps please no rants tonight, be kind and repectful to my view, on Christanity, I can prove it.
The argument about God putting leaders on the throne and taking them off really says nothing at all about the justification for going to war or not. By your rational ANY war would be justified, as your strain of thought ends up reducing human agency to nothing but a bunch of automotons mindlessly enacting God's will (not to mention the fact that if you accept your argument you would also have to accept that God put Hitler on the throne in the first place, and thus according to your reasoning his invasion of the rest of Europe and slaughter of the Jews would be justified as a war, merely because "God is in control" and he put Hitler on the throne in the first place).
Wars are started and justified by humans. The Bush administration offered specific reasons why they wanted to invade Iraq. It's fine if you see their reasoning as justifying the war and see the invasion of Iraq as a good thing because of it, but whether or not not the war was justified lives and dies by virtue of their reasons. If Christians all did what you are suggesting and whenever a war came along just mindlessly went along with it merely because "it's God's will," there would be absolutely no means by which we could hold our leaders accountable, or even combat injustice when it does arise.
_____________________________
Many Bothans died to bring you this information.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Bush administration made HUNDREDS of false stat... - 3/30/2008 8:37:36 PM
|
|
|
lightshineon
Posts: 3391
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Henny God is in control, the Bible says that. Is God evil NO, but you can make a case he allows it. Though this war is not evil, no more than the rest. GWB has done nothing Kennedy, or the rest, so people would you want Hussien as your leader? maybe God had mercy on these people. If you read the word it does say God put kings on thrones and takes them down. Yes we have free will, but trust me this is in Gods plan. Maybe GWB, has different motavion than God, but scripture backs this up. BTW God in the Bible started a few wars himself. Hitler was taken down by God as Hussien> God always wins against evil.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Bush administration made HUNDREDS of false stat... - 3/30/2008 9:49:07 PM
|
|
|
henny
Posts: 1276
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: MN
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Henny God is in control, the Bible says that. Is God evil NO, but you can make a case he allows it. Though this war is not evil, no more than the rest. GWB has done nothing Kennedy, or the rest, so people would you want Hussien as your leader? maybe God had mercy on these people. If you read the word it does say God put kings on thrones and takes them down. Yes we have free will, but trust me this is in Gods plan. Maybe GWB, has different motavion than God, but scripture backs this up. BTW God in the Bible started a few wars himself.Hitler was taken down by God as Hussien> God always wins against evil.
I know what the Bible says about propping kings up and taking them down, but I think you are misapplying the verse.
The fact that God has a will and may "prop up" and "take down" individual leaders does not dismiss our own personal agency in chosing to do either right or wrong, nor does it dismiss the free will of these individual leaders to chose right and wrong. Thus, there can be, and has been, wars started for completely immoral reasons, just as there can be wars started for the right reasons, but end up making things worse. We are still thinking human beings with a free will, and as such, God still expects us to combat injustice when we see it (indeed, it's only through his followers who chose to do right and not wrong, that his will can be exercised). We can't merely throw our hands up in the air and say that "X" war is justified and thus we shouldn't complain or criticize our leaders, or take a stance against any particular war, by virtue of this fact.
_____________________________
Many Bothans died to bring you this information.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Bush administration made HUNDREDS of false stat... - 3/30/2008 10:08:14 PM
|
|
|
RichLP
Posts: 1790
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: henny
I know what the Bible says about propping kings up and taking them down, but I think you are misapplying the verse.
The fact that God has a will and may "prop up" and "take down" individual leaders does not dismiss our own personal agency in chosing to do either right or wrong, nor does it dismiss the free will of these individual leaders to chose right and wrong. Thus, there can be, and has been, wars started for completely immoral reasons, just as there can be wars started for the right reasons, but end up making things worse. We are still thinking human beings with a free will, and as such, God still expects us to combat injustice when we see it (indeed, it's only through his followers who chose to do right and not wrong, that his will can be exercised). We can't merely throw our hands up in the air and say that "X" war is justified and thus we shouldn't complain or criticize our leaders, or take a stance against any particular war, by virtue of this fact.
This, and the previous post you put up Henny... I can agree with.
God teaches us personal responsibility in the Bible - the verse about what one sows, one reaps. The references to wisdom in the book of Proverbs.
God may have permitted the deposition of Saddam Hussein, but this does not signify He condones, approves of, or is satisfied with the catastrophic consequences that followed the fall of the Baath. I keep saying this: 4 million Iraqi refugees, hundreds of thousands (perhaps 1 million, according to new estimates) dead Iraqi civilians (out of a population of 25 million). Rape, murder, kidnapping, torture on scales far higher than anything seen during the Baath era.
You are right Henny. We humans start wars and use reasons to justify them. But that does not guarantee the initiators of wars are always right. And as I've stated here, the Bush administration made hundreds of false statements in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq. They should be held accountable - regardless of any ostensible profession of Christian faith or morally founded reasons for war.
I also wish to say that by saying that God "allows" things to happen trivializes the horrible consequences of war, prevents us from being sensitive to human suffering that comes from war, and enables those who are in the wrong to get away with it.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
|
|
|
|
|
RE: War in Iraq - 3/30/2008 10:09:51 PM
|
|
|
RichLP
Posts: 1790
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
I find it a little funny that we control the ancient city of Babylon. Basra, Iraq, where alot of fighting is going on today. I'm not of the mentality that Sadam killed people , so we should kill him and alot of innocents.
"Thou shall not kill" period.
As of today, Sunday March 30, the military deployment of the United Kingdom, which had turned over security functions to the Iraqis and withdrawn to the airport in Basra, has joined the fighting on the side of US and Iraqi troops.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
|
|
|
|
|
RE: War in Iraq - 3/31/2008 8:36:53 PM
|
|
|
lightshineon
Posts: 3391
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Reading in Proverbs today, God controls all leaders. The word of God is all true, or not true at all.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: War in Iraq - 3/31/2008 9:59:48 PM
|
|
|
henny
Posts: 1276
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: MN
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Reading in Proverbs today, God controls all leaders. The word of God is all true, or not true at all.
The word of God may be all true, but that doesn't mean it can't be misread. You're reading the verse as a sanction of fatalism and a general "laissez fair" attitude amongst Christians towards war and their leaders, which I don't think is correct.
_____________________________
Many Bothans died to bring you this information.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: War in Iraq - 3/31/2008 10:21:57 PM
|
|
|
lightshineon
Posts: 3391
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Well what is your commentary on the verse Henny?It seems cut and dry. I am really interested how I misread that. I am very balanced in my belief system of the word of God. Trust me on that one.
quote:
ORIGINAL: henny
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Reading in Proverbs today, God controls all leaders. The word of God is all true, or not true at all.
The word of God may be all true, but that doesn't mean it can't be misread. You're reading the verse as a sanction of fatalism and a general "laissez fair" attitude amongst Christians towards war and their leaders, which I don't think is correct.
quote:
Report | Post #: 5569
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: War in Iraq - 3/31/2008 11:14:27 PM
|
|
|
henny
Posts: 1276
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: MN
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Well what is your commentary on the verse Henny?It seems cut and dry. I am really interested how I misread that. I am very balanced in my belief system of the word of God. Trust me on that one.
I gave you my commentary above. You've yet to respond to how your reading of the verse can avoid fatalism and moral relativity, and how it can accommodate our role as citizens in a democracy in ensuring that our governement is a moral one.
In otherwords, what are we to do as citizens if one of our leaders starts a war which we believe is immoral? Are we merely to be silent and not criticize the leader? If you read the rest of proverbs it talks a great deal about how leaders should rule, and it clearly views them as individuals with the free will to chose good and bad, as oppossed to just "puppets" who enact the will of God without any free choice of their own.
If you think Bush's war in Iraq is good, that's perfectly fine. I'm not arguing against that. But you are using the verse to silent dissent (i.e. "you shouldn't complain because it's God's will"), and I don't think it can be used in that way.
_____________________________
Many Bothans died to bring you this information.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: War in Iraq - 4/1/2008 12:28:13 AM
|
|
|
lightshineon
Posts: 3391
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Actually Henny you find that in Romans, that is in the NT, about bad mouthing leaders.
quote:
ORIGINAL: henny
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Well what is your commentary on the verse Henny?It seems cut and dry. I am really interested how I misread that. I am very balanced in my belief system of the word of God. Trust me on that one.
I gave you my commentary above. You've yet to respond to how your reading of the verse can avoid fatalism and moral relativity, and how it can accommodate our role as citizens in a democracy in ensuring that our governement is a moral one.
In otherwords, what are we to do as citizens if one of our leaders starts a war which we believe is immoral? Are we merely to be silent and not criticize the leader? If you read the rest of proverbs it talks a great deal about how leaders should rule, and it clearly views them as individuals with the free will to chose good and bad, as oppossed to just "puppets" who enact the will of God without any free choice of their own.
If you think Bush's war in Iraq is good, that's perfectly fine. I'm not arguing against that. But you are using the verse to silent dissent (i.e. "you shouldn't complain because it's God's will"), and I don't think it can be used in that way.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: War in Iraq - 4/1/2008 12:35:42 AM
|
|
|
henny
Posts: 1276
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: MN
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Actually Henny you find that in Romans, that is in the NT, about bad mouthing leaders.
Still doesn't address anything I said.
Answer this:
What are we to do as citizens if one of our leaders starts a war which we believe is immoral? Are we merely to be silent and not criticize the leader?
_____________________________
Many Bothans died to bring you this information.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: War in Iraq - 4/1/2008 9:15:06 AM
|
|
|
lightshineon
Posts: 3391
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Yes Henny, we are not supposed to be rebellious. Do not bash according to the Bible. Why is this war immoral, any more than the others? In proverbs it says God controls all leaders. So what is your take on that one. When you rebel against authority, then you rebel against God, according to the word. I suggest you pray for our leaders, that is what the Bible says. It says pray for those in authority, so you will live in peace, and all may go well with you. God said it, I did not, so hey, I maybe wrong and you maybe wrong, but God is always right.
quote:
ORIGINAL: henny
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Actually Henny you find that in Romans, that is in the NT, about bad mouthing leaders.
Still doesn't address anything I said.
Answer this:
What are we to do as citizens if one of our leaders starts a war which we believe is immoral? Are we merely to be silent and not criticize the leader?
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
|
|
|
|
|
al-Maliki - and Bush - weakened by fight w/ Mahdi Army - 4/1/2008 1:35:17 PM
|
|
|
RichLP
Posts: 1790
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
|
And Sayyid Muqtada al-Sadr is the winner.
Iraqi forces could not beat back the Mahdi Army militias and only when the USAF was called in were regular Iraqi troops able to move into Sadrist positions. The fighting ended not because the Mahdi Army surrendered or because regular Iraqi forces won battles, but because al-Sadr unilaterally announced a ceasefire.
Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki had staked much on the regular Iraqi army's ability to fight (something we've been told all along: Iraqis stand up, Americans stand down), but the Iraqi army did not prove its mettle. It is a sobering revelation when the defense minister of Iraq publicly admits the Mahdi Army's resistance had proven to be greater than expected. Now, al-Maliki's political capital has been severely diminished - he vowed to crush Shia, but he ultimately sued for peace w/ folks whom he has described as “worse than al-Qaeda.”
The Mahdi Army never fulfilled Maliki's earlier ultimatum (that they surrender their arms).
Al-Sadr, meantime, is the clear winner. This is a fight he had not started (remember, he had ordered a ceasefire in August 2007), but his forces nonetheless held their ground. And as I've written earlier, some Iraqi police surrendered and defected to the Mahdi Army.
And as if this wasn't bad enough for the Bush administration, Iran's influence in Iraq was clearer than ever, as it had a major role in the negotiations between the Iraqi regime and al-Sadr.
I wonder how removing a secular regime and allowing Iran to gain so much influence in Iraq is good for US national security.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
