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[Poll]
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War in Iraq
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| We are in Iraq because of oil |
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| We are in Iraq to liberate the less fortunate |
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| We are in Iraq to protect Israel |
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| We are in Iraq to stop terrorists |
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| We are in Iraq for some other reason |
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Total Votes : 427
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(last vote on : 9/26/2008 12:04:25 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/23/2005 10:40:20 AM
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rlj
Posts: 1980
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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Thanks Jack that is a bit better than I thought. ; )
You probably have to log in to see this but here's a pertinent cartoon that was in my local paper from Chip Bok yesterday:
http://hogan.ohio.com/ohio/bok/album/show.php3?id=1899
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/23/2005 9:46:34 PM
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haldir
Posts: 551
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
Over 4 million Iraqis voted in the January elections. Yep, it sure does seem like they don't want a representative republic.
4 million out of 26 million which comes to 15.04% of the population. Thinking of that makes me really really proud that a whopping 45.45% of our population voted in 2004.
Iraq population link: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/iz.html
US percentage population link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_2004
Actually I was going from memory which I am pretty sure that number was off.
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Haldir
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GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/24/2005 1:36:00 AM
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pthalomarie
Posts: 168
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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WASHINGTON - A leading Republican senator and prospective presidential candidate said Sunday that the war in
Iraq has destabilized the Middle East and is looking more like the Vietnam conflict from a generation ago.
Nebraska Sen. Chuck Hagel, who received two Purple Hearts and other military honors for his service in Vietnam, reiterated his position that the United States needs to develop a strategy to leave Iraq. Hagel scoffed at the idea that U.S. troops could be in Iraq four years from now at levels above 100,000, a contingency for which the Pentagon is preparing.
"We should start figuring out how we get out of there," Hagel said on "This Week" on ABC. "But with this understanding, we cannot leave a vacuum that further destabilizes the Middle East. I think our involvement there has destabilized the Middle East. And the longer we stay there, I think the further destabilization will occur."
Hagel said "stay the course" is not a policy. "By any standard, when you analyze 2 1/2 years in Iraq ... we're not winning," he said.
"We're past that stage now because now we are locked into a bogged-down problem not unsimilar, dissimilar to where we were in Vietnam," Hagel said. "The longer we stay, the more problems we're going to have."
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RE: GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/24/2005 9:22:47 AM
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haldir
Posts: 551
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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And that is the statement of one man's opinion. Interestly it's a presidential canidate. Hhhhhmmmm....
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Haldir
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RE: GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/24/2005 9:49:44 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7515
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
Nebraska Sen. Chuck Hagel, who received two Purple Hearts and other military honors for his service in Vietnam, reiterated his position that the United States needs to develop a strategy to leave Iraq. Hagel scoffed at the idea that U.S. troops could be in Iraq four years from now at levels above 100,000, a contingency for which the Pentagon is preparing.
Chuck Hagel, John Mccain and Dick Lugar...with friends like these, who needs Teddy Kennedy?
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/24/2005 2:12:35 PM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1074
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Nebraska Sen. Chuck Hagel, who received two Purple Hearts and other military honors for his service in Vietnam, reiterated his position that the United States needs to develop a strategy to leave Iraq. Hagel scoffed at the idea that U.S. troops could be in Iraq four years from now at levels above 100,000, a contingency for which the Pentagon is preparing.
Chuck Hagel, John Mccain and Dick Lugar...with friends like these, who needs Teddy Kennedy?
Huh?!?! I would hardly call men who served their country (the lformer two I know for sure) honorably, enemies! And, one of the longest standing Rep senators, an enemy of Republicans. Wow!
The former two fought in wars, which is more than I can say for the man who sent young men into battle in Iraq, for reasons that were later proved wrong!!! Unbelievable - now I have heard everything from this camp...thanks - I'll add it to my most unbelievable quotes list, Jack !)
Peace & God bless,
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RE: GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/24/2005 2:18:14 PM
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haldir
Posts: 551
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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Those three Senators are considered RINOs by most Republican constituants. Thus the reason for Jack's statement.
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Haldir
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RE: GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/24/2005 2:39:05 PM
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Stephanos
Posts: 1124
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
Status: offline
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And i for one can applaud and be in total respect for someone because of their service to this country. But i still can think they are total baffoons and should never be listened to let alone elected to office.
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RE: GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/24/2005 3:03:10 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1054
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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RINOS?
Heaven forbid we have Republicans who actually think for themselves.
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RE: GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/24/2005 3:05:52 PM
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haldir
Posts: 551
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gwingert
RINOS?
Heaven forbid we have Republicans who actually think for themselves.
They are RINOs because they vote more often as liberals than they vote as conservative. It has nothing to do with thinking for themselves. BTW, there are DINOs. Zel Miller comes to mind. Your inference that all Republicans follow party lines like lemmings goes for the Democrats also.
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Haldir
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RE: GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/24/2005 3:07:58 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1054
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
I never said it was only from the "outside" (why do you put quotes around words that aren't even in my post?) I said it was a foreign insurgency, which it undoubtedly and primarily is; the borders along Syria and Iran are more than porous enough to support it.
I'm sorry I used the quotes Jack.
But I'm wondering what is the difference between "foreign" and "outside" in describing an insurgency?
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RE: GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/24/2005 3:14:56 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1054
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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Haldir,
I will just say there were many that opposed the Iraq invasion including career members of the US Intelligence Community and the Armed Forces. I for one respect the service and experience that people like Sen McCain and Sen Hagel bring to the table.
Conservative or Liberal labels are meaningless.
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RE: GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/24/2005 7:46:16 PM
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Flojo1
Posts: 64
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
quote]
Chuck Hagel, John Mccain and Dick Lugar...with friends like these, who needs Teddy Kennedy?
Sheesh, I hope a good candidate shows up soon.
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RE: GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/25/2005 1:02:52 AM
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clayton994
Posts: 71
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Bendigo, Australia
Status: offline
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quote:
outside
quote:
ORIGINAL: gwingert
quote:
I never said it was only from the "outside" (why do you put quotes around words that aren't even in my post?) I said it was a foreign insurgency, which it undoubtedly and primarily is; the borders along Syria and Iran are more than porous enough to support it.
I'm sorry I used the quotes Jack.
But I'm wondering what is the difference between "foreign" and "outside" in describing an insurgency?
Actually, for the record Jack, you said:
"The problem isn't the 'hearts and minds of the people'; the vast majority of Iraqis support a representative government; it is a consistent drive to crush the outside insurgency, an effort only lessened by the wekness of resolve among the left in our country, who would just as soon abandon the Iraqi's to the foreign insurgency as aid them."
... not that it makes any difference to me because like gwingert, I'm also wondering what the difference is between "foreign" and "outside" in describing an insurgency, in your mind. But I do think your criticism of gwingert's use of the quotes was unfair.
Cheers,
Clayton.
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RE: GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/25/2005 1:23:20 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7515
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
But I'm wondering what is the difference between "foreign" and "outside" in describing an insurgency?
quote:
... not that it makes any difference to me because like gwingert, I'm also wondering what the difference is between "foreign" and "outside" in describing an insurgency, in your mind. But I do think your criticism of gwingert's use of the quotes was unfair.
My qualm wasn't with it being called one thing or the other, my qualm was with the impression given that I said it was only an outside/foreign insurgency; I never said that. It just seems quite obvious from Zarqawi on down, that most of the impetus for the insurgency comes from organizations outside Iraq.
< Message edited by Jhud -- 8/25/2005 3:01:31 AM >
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/25/2005 12:52:29 PM
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Joanne-M
Posts: 23
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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Those of you who are against the war:
What do you think of your comrades picketing outside of Walter Reed hospital and verbally attacking the wounded men and women trying to recuperate there?
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=\SpecialReports\archive\200508\SPE20050825a.html
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RE: GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/25/2005 1:24:00 PM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1074
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Joanne-M
Those of you who are against the war:
What do you think of your comrades picketing outside of Walter Reed hospital and verbally attacking the wounded men and women trying to recuperate there?
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=\SpecialReports\archive\200508\SPE20050825a.html
It's interesting that this source, and GOP-funded sources, chose to phrase this as "targeting wounded soldiers."
Obviously, as somone who is opposed to this ill-conceived war, I disagree with the belief that this is taunting the wounded soldiers. Do you ever think that people are protesting this war because, bingo, they do NOT want the soldiers to get wounded, die in the first place?! You know, if the war was not happening in the first place, the soldiers would not be getting wounded, killed. Do you understand? And do you understand, then, this IS SUPPORTING THE TROOPS: this is supporting a policy, peace, that will NOT put the soldiers lives in jeopardy at all. You know, as opposed the policy of GOING to war - and putting the lives of our best & brightest in jeopardy? Do you understand?
Unreal - just when I thought I had read it all...
Peace & God bless,
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RE: GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/25/2005 5:14:32 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7515
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
Obviously, as somone who is opposed to this ill-conceived war, I disagree with the belief that this is taunting the wounded soldiers. Do you ever think that people are protesting this war because, bingo, they do NOT want the soldiers to get wounded, die in the first place?! You know, if the war was not happening in the first place, the soldiers would not be getting wounded, killed.
Did the soldiers ask for this sort of 'support'? One certainly doesn't feel that way:
Kevin Pannell, who was recently treated at Walter Reed and had both legs amputated after an ambush grenade attack near Baghdad in 2004, considers the presence of the anti-war protesters in front of the hospital "distasteful."
When he was a patient at the hospital, Pannell said he initially tried to ignore the anti-war activists camped out in front of Walter Reed, until witnessing something that enraged him.
"We went by there one day and I drove by and [the anti-war protesters] had a bunch of flag-draped coffins laid out on the sidewalk. That, I thought, was probably the most distasteful thing I had ever seen. Ever," Pannell, a member of the Army's First Cavalry Division, told Cybercast News Service.
"You know that 95 percent of the guys in the hospital bed lost guys whenever they got hurt and survivors' guilt is the worst thing you can deal with," Pannell said, adding that other veterans recovering from wounds at Walter Reed share his resentment for the anti-war protesters.
"We don't like them and we don't like the fact that they can hang their signs and stuff on the fence at Walter Reed," he said. "[The wounded veterans] are there to recuperate. Once they get out in the real world, then they can start seeing that stuff (anti-war protests). I mean Walter Reed is a sheltered environment and it needs to stay that way."
quote:
Do you understand? And do you understand, then, this IS SUPPORTING THE TROOPS: this is supporting a policy, peace, that will NOT put the soldiers lives in jeopardy at all. You know, as opposed the policy of GOING to war - and putting the lives of our best & brightest in jeopardy? Do you understand?
This is poppycock. They are volunteers, and many of them are re-enlisting knowing full well what the war entails. The protestors are purely selfish and agenda driven and care nothing for the troops.
< Message edited by Jhud -- 8/26/2005 8:59:48 AM >
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/25/2005 8:43:18 PM
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Joanne-M
Posts: 23
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: Joanne-M
Those of you who are against the war:
What do you think of your comrades picketing outside of Walter Reed hospital and verbally attacking the wounded men and women trying to recuperate there?
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=\SpecialReports\archive\200508\SPE20050825a.html
It's interesting that this source, and GOP-funded sources, chose to phrase this as "targeting wounded soldiers."
Obviously, as somone who is opposed to this ill-conceived war, I disagree with the belief that this is taunting the wounded soldiers. Do you ever think that people are protesting this war because, bingo, they do NOT want the soldiers to get wounded, die in the first place?! You know, if the war was not happening in the first place, the soldiers would not be getting wounded, killed. Do you understand? And do you understand, then, this IS SUPPORTING THE TROOPS: this is supporting a policy, peace, that will NOT put the soldiers lives in jeopardy at all. You know, as opposed the policy of GOING to war - and putting the lives of our best & brightest in jeopardy? Do you understand?
Unreal - just when I thought I had read it all...
Peace & God bless,
Lizhana,
I understand perfectly, but I don't believe you understand the way the anti-war demonstrators are affecting the very troops they claim to support.
Imagine you've returned from Iraq, missing a leg, and needing months of treatment and therapy. You're already depressed because you know your life will never be the same again. Perhaps you've lost one or more friends in the war. You're thrilled to be home. You're thrilled to be in a hospital where you can receive great treatment. You're glad you made it out of there alive.
Then you look out your window and see a bunch of angry demonstrators. They say they support you, but they're carrying signs calling you a murderer. They say they support you, but they should slogans at your family members as they come into the hospital to see you.
Honestly, I don't care if you guys protest at every single recruiting office in the country. I don't care if you have a vigil at the capitol or White House for the rest of your lives. But stay away from the hospitals. Stay away from those men and women who have already given more for their country than you'd EVER have the courage to give. Stop using them for your own political agenda.
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RE: GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/25/2005 9:45:14 PM
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jgarden
Posts: 62
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
And i for one can applaud and be in total respect for someone because of their service to this country. But i still can think they are total baffoons and should never be listened to let alone elected to office.
At least these "baffoons" prove there's reason for hope that one day "intelligent life" will be found in the GOP - but I'm not optomistic.
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RE: GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/25/2005 10:01:32 PM
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peaceb2u
Posts: 206
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Royal Oak, Michigan (Metro Detroit area)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jgarden
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
And i for one can applaud and be in total respect for someone because of their service to this country. But i still can think they are total baffoons and should never be listened to let alone elected to office.
At least these "baffoons" prove there's reason for hope that one day "intelligent life" will be found in the GOP - but I'm not optomistic.
Is it intelligent to murder unborn babies, or make it legal to do so?...Is it intelligent promote homosexuality as if it's just a good, alternative lifestyle?
Is it just my imagination, or for the most part, is the group of people who are anti-war, the same group who are pro-abortion?...I just don't get it, save the terrorist, but murder the unborn babies...
< Message edited by peaceb2u -- 8/25/2005 10:04:40 PM >
_____________________________
La 3:25 The LORD is good to those who wait for Him, To the soul who seeks Him.
Please visit my website at: http://www.excellentfreeware.zoomshare.com/
Keith
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RE: GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam - 8/25/2005 11:12:52 PM
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jgarden
Posts: 62
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peaceb2u
quote:
ORIGINAL: jgarden
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
And i for one can applaud and be in total respect for someone because of their service to this country. But i still can think they are total baffoons and should never be listened to let alone elected to office.
At least these "baffoons" prove there's reason for hope that one day "intelligent life" will be found in the GOP - but I'm not optomistic.
Is it intelligent to murder unborn babies, or make it legal to do so?...Is it intelligent promote homosexuality as if it's just a good, alternative lifestyle?
Is it just my imagination, or for the most part, is the group of people who are anti-war, the same group who are pro-abortion?...I just don't get it, save the terrorist, but murder the unborn babies...
1. Is it intelligent to bring children into a society that has the highest death rate from firearms among modern nations? Apparently, there are more gun related deaths in America in one day than there is in a year in Japan.
2. Does it make sense that the pro-life supporters are not pressuring the Andministration to provide more social programs to make the decision to have a full term pregnancy more viable?
3. The world recognizes the legality of the marriages of murderous dictators, serial killers, mafia dons, etc. as long as they are heterosexuals in good standing. Apparently, sexual orientation is the one and only thing that counts. One does not even have to be a Christian to have a Christian wedding.
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