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RE: Goth Culture - 4/17/2008 4:31:06 PM
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miasma
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...youth groups...
Bauhaus just released an album - last week? - and Lisa Gerard and the other musicians from DCD are still very active.
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/17/2008 4:50:34 PM
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designed
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quote:
quote:
designed-
these things do happen to be found in many subculture circles
stellaluna-
Yep, including athletes, cheerleaders, band members, student council, theater...
You're right. But those areas you mentioned (non-sub-culture areas) usually don't stem directly out of a counter-culture that is steeped in rebellious music, drug/alcohol abuse and new-age/occult practices. I'm very aware that the areas of danger I mentioned aren't limited to or are all inclusive to certain specific groups/clicks of people. I was simply commenting in part to the topic at hand. Gothic culture.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:35
Who gives the sun for light by day
And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar;
The LORD of hosts is His name:
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/18/2008 9:49:11 AM
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stellaluna
Posts: 3251
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quote:
ORIGINAL: designed
quote:
quote:
designed-
these things do happen to be found in many subculture circles
stellaluna-
Yep, including athletes, cheerleaders, band members, student council, theater...
You're right. But those areas you mentioned (non-sub-culture areas) usually don't stem directly out of a counter-culture that is steeped in rebellious music, drug/alcohol abuse and new-age/occult practices. I'm very aware that the areas of danger I mentioned aren't limited to or are all inclusive to certain specific groups/clicks of people. I was simply commenting in part to the topic at hand. Gothic culture.
1) I maintain that the groups on my list are subculture groups.
2) I maintain that all of those groups are also steeped in "rebellious" music, drug/alcohol abuse and questionable practices (especially evident during my time in theater). Let's don't forget hazing either.
I personally find athletes the least desirable subculture group. Others may look at them and see a well-dressed, well-behaved, hard-working group of students. My direct personal experience with them has been one of continued harrassment. Ask any of my friends what it's like to go to school with student athletes and you will hear nothing good. They bully everyone else, not just punks and people who look different--also the band and choir "geeks" and the theater students and anyone who's poor or fat or not them. Around here we call them "white hats" because so many of them wear white baseball caps from their favorite universities. One of these white hats killed my friend's brother, ran over him with a car, and got probation. Probation.
I am not goth, even though I've been called so. I have known many many goth kids and adults over the years. Some of them are Christians. Some of them aren't. I know of a couple who used drugs. All of them have been very intelligent and extremely creative, really good people, not violent, keep to themselves, and very thick skinned.
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/18/2008 11:25:53 AM
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miasma
Posts: 6210
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quote:
those areas you mentioned (non-sub-culture areas) usually don't stem directly out of a counter-culture that is steeped in rebellious music, drug/alcohol abuse and new-age/occult practices.
Quite incorrect/misinformed.
I would gladly submit lyrics from any "goth" song, vs. the lyrics of any pop song on the radio, as listened to by the "cool" kids. 
Hit singles like "Promiscuous Girl" and "Soulja Boy," which is NOT about soldiers. 
I would offer pictures of "goth" girls, dressed well - and modestly, vs. the "cheerleaders" in short shorts, mini-dresses and tube tops.
It's not the goth kids on MTV, fornicating, dancing as though they were fornicating, going to Mexico to get as drunk as possible for spring break.
It's not goth kids churning out movies chock-full of sex, drugs and alcoholism.
I have to agree with Stellaluna, that if I had to choose where my kids would choose to fall in, atheletes - well, "jocks," because certainly being an athelete doesn't make one a "jock" - would be at the BOTTOM of the list.
Though I personally had no negative experiences with them, as an adult, the headlines in our local paper are constantly full of our football players getting arrested for bar fights, theft, and other illegal activities. The Duke lacrosse team. The pitbull fighting guy. The various charges of rape in the NBA.
Do some reading, see how many bullies and high school miscreants are "goths." (or refer to the article I linked to).
Goth culture at-large, as generally recognized did not stem from any new age/occultic practices.
Are there goth pagans? Sure. There's also Christian pagans, computer nerd pagans, and SAHM homeschooling pagans.
Not to mention, teens generally grow out of dressing "goth," while the narcissistic, ego-driven other types, like "jocks" keep that personality - have it enlarged, if anything, by having everything handed to them for their physical talents.
It's not what a kid is wearing, that will determine substance abuse problems. It's not the music they listen to, that will manifest self-destructive behaviour.
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Baracknaphobia
What's tappening...
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/18/2008 9:33:03 PM
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designed
Posts: 228
Joined: 12/21/2007
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I'm a little confused how the topic at hand has sort of turned into a debate over which type/label of people are more high risk for unhealthy behaviour. Goth vs "them"  ??? Just for the record, I said...
quote:
there are others who go deep into their created personas(that’s where my concern would start, especially if it was coupled with other drastic changes in habits/behaviours)
and..
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I'm very aware that the areas of danger I mentioned aren't limited to or are all inclusive to certain specific groups/clicks of people.
I agree that questionable/unhealthy behaviour is rampant in mainstream groups as well as counter-culture groups. But the OP isn't addressing mainstream culture. Which in my...
quote:
Miasma-
Quite incorrect/misinformed.
head.....seems to be a more accurate description of
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athletes, cheerleaders, band members, student council, theater...
which I will still maintain.....
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usually don't stem directly out of a counter-culture
Maybe a new thread asking for commentary and concerns about those in the "jock" or "mainstream" culture is needed??
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:35
Who gives the sun for light by day
And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar;
The LORD of hosts is His name:
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