Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (Full Version)

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relientkat -> Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/16/2008 9:56:01 PM)

Hi peoples. Yep... I'm one of THOSE girls. Never dated, never been kissed, never even been offered the choice (God has really protected me I guess!). And my take on romance is from a more Biblical viewpoint. I want a guy to be willing to come to me and offer to court me.
That's right. I said it. COURT. I'm a girl who wants a guy who wants a long term relationship.
So what I'm asking here is, Guys what do you really think about Dating vs. Courtship?



TomTurn -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/16/2008 10:11:14 PM)

Am 50 now so not sure if what I would do would be called courting

After a relationship some years back I made a vow to never kiss a woman again until I was married to her. That was 17 years ago and it has not killed me yet.

Wait for the best



humbleinspirit -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/16/2008 10:14:07 PM)

This is IMHO, I believe that when you are younger, in your 20's or younger then courting is a good thing. By the time you have reached 30 and beyond, I believe that you are really old enough to marry and to know who that might be, etc.



derek_from_canada -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/17/2008 12:16:48 AM)

Good for you for taking a stand and having some convictions.

Yet I think you are cutting yourself off from a lot of valuable experience and learning about the opposite gender by not hanging out with any guy unless it is moving towards marriage and requiring all guys to ask your father to ask you out. (That's what the courtship people say to do)

But if you mean you want a guy to date you intentionally for potential marriage, well you can do that with a few pointed questions after the first "hanging out" time (er date or two.)

Something like "So I don't date unless there is long term potential, are we on the same page?"

In any case, I hope you are meeting guys through groups and other events and things. How is a guy to make the leap from knowing you exist to asking your father to court you for marriage unless you show a guy you are more than a pretty face.

You wouldn't want guys to want to marry you just because of your looks would ya?

Courtship can almost guarantee those are the kinds of guys after you unless you know him "as a friend" first. Then you are de facto "dating" anyway if you spend any alone time with the guy.

Just some thoughts.



DaveW -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/17/2008 8:20:59 AM)

It entirely depends on what you call "courtship."

I went thru a process during my sr year of college they called courtship. I had the worlds shortest duration (about 45 minutes) and married her. 30 years later we are hosting our middle daughter with her husband and our 2 grandkids while they get settled into their new home.

How that process worked:

We had a home group system and an elder board. Home group leaders reported to either another more senior home group leader or an elder. Dating was an offense punishable by expulsion from the church. (it actually happened a few times) Men and women served in different areas and the only ministries where both were present was the worship band/orchestra and choir. If a guy saw a girl he was interested in marrying, he spoke to his home group leader about her. (realize he may not even know her name at this point) That went thru the chain of command to her home group leader. The leader's wife would approach her, explain that "Bob" was interested in courting her. She then could agree or not. Anyone in the chain could also disagree which would mean that the request only went that far and never gets to her.

If no, then her home group leader, his home group leader (and anyone else like an elder involved in the decision) and the guy would sit down and the decision explained. He would be told to forget about her, rearange his life to avoid any contact.

If yes, then the home group leaders would introduce the couple and the parameters of the courtship explained. It was a time of prayer and fasting to see if God was saying get married or not. Limited dates to get to know each other were encouraged. Time limits were explained: no more than 6 months to hear from God and if Yes, about 6 months to plan a wedding. (the dreaded "6 month rule")

Note: this process could only be started by the guy, never the girl. She had no options whatsoever.

It did not have a good track record. DW and I are one of the few couples that actually lasted.

If that is what you mean then no I do not agree with it.



John_O -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/17/2008 8:39:26 AM)

Sorry Dave but that sounds almost cultlike to me. Lots and lots of control by authorities. Wow.

As to courtship.....


Courtship is just intentional dating by another name. I'm all in favor of asking her dad , when it comes time to propose, I'm kind of an old fashioned guy. But that kind of falls apart when her dad is no longer with us or if he's not a Christian. Or if she's old enough to make her own decsions

As long as two people are on teh same page (both working towards marriage), then they are courting whatever it looks like on the outside.



broyce1981 -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/17/2008 11:41:56 AM)

When I hear the word courtship my first thought is [:'(]

But it really depends how you define this. If you mean dating somebody with intent to work towards marriage, and acting honestly and honorably then yes, fine. I've always done that anyways and thought that was the only way to act. But, if it deals with any kind of rules for the relationship then I would say no to that. I'm not going to live by a bunch of made up rules about how my relationships should be.



colliefan -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/17/2008 1:19:32 PM)

My heart has been through so many shreders, there is nothing left to give. So for me, no courtship, no dating, nada.



colliefan -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/17/2008 8:07:09 PM)

quote:


So any tips guys? Help some of us thinned skinned women out....


Sorry to seem curt, but get a thicker skin. Make sure your idenity is in Jesus Christ. Make sure you are driven by the HS instead of your feelings. Know your weaknesses.



relientkat -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/17/2008 8:27:13 PM)

OK... I'll clarify what my parents and I consider to be courtship. And guys, be honest, tell me if this seems workable.

My parents and I believe courting to be this: Lets say "Bob" is a really good friend of mine. We hang out a lot with other friends but we've never been alone together. We've had lots of good talks and know each other well. Bob talks to my dad about pursuing a deeper relationship - hopefully marriage - with me. My dad agrees. I accept. Bob starts coming over to my house more regularly to spend time with me and my family. I do the same with Bob's family. Maybe a couple months, weeks, or even days go by and Bob asks my father's permission to marry me. I accept. We get married.

THERE!!! All the stuff between friends and married is courtship. Guys, would you be willing to find your future wife that way?

And, yes, I try to pursue friendships with guys. Unfortunately, all the guys that were my friends are no longer in my life. The only guys I know right now are my brother, my dad, and a bunch of boys under 16 from my church.



colliefan -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/17/2008 10:11:46 PM)

How old are you and how old is Bob? I can see this secanario if both of you are in your late teens or early-to mid twenties. Past thirty, forget it.



APZR -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/17/2008 11:08:44 PM)

I think you have a bit Utopian view, but I agree with you that the young man should have great respect for you and your parents.

When I met my now wife in college, we had casual conversations and she was very cold/reluctant to make any friendship. I was persistent, and she warmed up to me. Then it came time to meet her foster parents. I drove up, knocked on the door, and did the meet and greet. We went in, talked for an hour or so, and went out on a date. Had I sat in the truck honking the horn expecting her to bound out of the house and jump in.... [:@]

When my own girls are of the dating age, the young man had darn well better come shake my hand, and meet me face to face. If they sit in the drive way honking the horn, there will be no date. My daughters know better, and they know how to demand respect.



John_O -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/18/2008 9:51:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: relientkat

OK... I'll clarify what my parents and I consider to be courtship. And guys, be honest, tell me if this seems workable.

My parents and I believe courting to be this: Lets say "Bob" is a really good friend of mine. We hang out a lot with other friends but we've never been alone together. We've had lots of good talks and know each other well. Bob talks to my dad about pursuing a deeper relationship - hopefully marriage - with me. My dad agrees. I accept. Bob starts coming over to my house more regularly to spend time with me and my family. I do the same with Bob's family. Maybe a couple months, weeks, or even days go by and Bob asks my father's permission to marry me. I accept. We get married.

THERE!!! All the stuff between friends and married is courtship. Guys, would you be willing to find your future wife that way?

And, yes, I try to pursue friendships with guys. Unfortunately, all the guys that were my friends are no longer in my life. The only guys I know right now are my brother, my dad, and a bunch of boys under 16 from my church.


I've found that normally once I become a "really good friend" with a girl, any possibility of a romantic relationship is ended.

BUt what you described will work for younger folks. When I met M she was living at home. We dated for a while, I met and learned the family, and when the time came asked her parents if I could marry her. Some call it courting, I call it dating.



colliefan -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/18/2008 11:55:44 AM)

In my younger days when I stll had knees, the only "court" I knew was the BB court. Now, the only court I am familiar with is the food court at the local mall.



relientkat -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/18/2008 8:57:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: APZR

I think you have a bit Utopian view


You know, I sure hope this is a Utopian view. God is the one who convicted me of this. And to anyone reading this who thinks I'm just sitting on my butt and not being proactive in this, think again. God has restricted my movement in this issue. He's teaching me to rely on Him in this process, that He will bring me my future husband. After all, I'm praying and wondering where he is, but isn't he doing the same thing regarding me?

And what I don't understand is, why is it all of sudden OK for thirty-something year old to put him or her self in potentially tempting situation with the opposite sex but not OK for teens to twenties? And how is courting radical? Dating in the modern sense was created in the late 1800s when a Frenchman decided that lust should lead people. As Christians shouldn't we be striving for whatever is good, noble, and pure? In every relationship?



John_O -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/18/2008 11:22:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: relientkat
And what I don't understand is, why is it all of sudden OK for thirty-something year old to put him or her self in potentially tempting situation with the opposite sex but not OK for teens to twenties?


Who said anything about putting oneself in a tempting position? The reason it's harder for a 30 year old to court as the word is usually defined is that a 30 year old is usually a mature adult, and many time s their parents are already gone. Most teens and quite a few 20s haven't learned to control their impulses yet.


quote:

And how is courting radical? Dating in the modern sense was created in the late 1800s when a Frenchman decided that lust should lead people. As Christians shouldn't we be striving for whatever is good, noble, and pure? In every relationship?



Courting isn't radical. But some of the ideas thrown about relating to it are pretty far out there.

In the old days neither courting (as known today) nor dating was done. Mom and dad said "You're going to marry whatisface" and married you were. Surely you don't want to go back that far?!

Why do you assume that a couple who are dating are not striving for a proper Christian walk?



violinist_for_jesus -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/19/2008 7:15:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: relientkat

OK... I'll clarify what my parents and I consider to be courtship. And guys, be honest, tell me if this seems workable.

My parents and I believe courting to be this: Lets say "Bob" is a really good friend of mine. We hang out a lot with other friends but we've never been alone together. We've had lots of good talks and know each other well. Bob talks to my dad about pursuing a deeper relationship - hopefully marriage - with me. My dad agrees. I accept. Bob starts coming over to my house more regularly to spend time with me and my family. I do the same with Bob's family. Maybe a couple months, weeks, or even days go by and Bob asks my father's permission to marry me. I accept. We get married.

THERE!!! All the stuff between friends and married is courtship. Guys, would you be willing to find your future wife that way?

And, yes, I try to pursue friendships with guys. Unfortunately, all the guys that were my friends are no longer in my life. The only guys I know right now are my brother, my dad, and a bunch of boys under 16 from my church.

I have no problem with that. In fact, I am very pro-courting as you described it.
Especially since I have an easier time of winning parents over then girls. lol
I would have to say though, that instead of just biological families, one should do some hanging out with the church families as well, but that is just my thought.



dinomax55 -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/19/2008 8:58:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: relientkat

OK... I'll clarify what my parents and I consider to be courtship. And guys, be honest, tell me if this seems workable.

My parents and I believe courting to be this: Lets say "Bob" is a really good friend of mine. We hang out a lot with other friends but we've never been alone together. We've had lots of good talks and know each other well. Bob talks to my dad about pursuing a deeper relationship - hopefully marriage - with me. My dad agrees. I accept. Bob starts coming over to my house more regularly to spend time with me and my family. I do the same with Bob's family. Maybe a couple months, weeks, or even days go by and Bob asks my father's permission to marry me. I accept. We get married.

THERE!!! All the stuff between friends and married is courtship. Guys, would you be willing to find your future wife that way?

And, yes, I try to pursue friendships with guys. Unfortunately, all the guys that were my friends are no longer in my life. The only guys I know right now are my brother, my dad, and a bunch of boys under 16 from my church.


So I would have to ask your dad to 'court' you before you and I even agree to 'court'? Does the young lady have a say in this? Doesn't sound like something I'd be interested in. I'm all for getting established with the young lady's family, but I'm not trying to marry them- my interest involves her. There should be some personal choice and privacy involved, since we are both adults, right? It almost sounds like you want your folks to make the decision for you. Besides, like some of the other guys have said, it's not likely that we would be friends for so long and then escalate to 'courting'.



dinomax55 -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/19/2008 9:00:07 AM)

PS:
In order to meet more guys, you may have to stick your neck out a bit..



colliefan -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/19/2008 2:09:34 PM)

quote:

And what I don't understand is, why is it all of sudden OK for thirty-something year old to put him or her self in potentially tempting situation with the opposite sex but not OK for teens to twenties?


As has been posted, at your age one would assume that you have been out on your own enough and have learned enough life lessons as to know whom to date or not to date. Also, one would assume that you have enough female friends to give you advice about your selection in guys. And I am assume that you are wise enough not to but yourself in tempting situation.

You are a mature, grown woman. In the process of developing a relationship I would assume that you would involve your intended in family situations. In this process, I would hope that your intended would want to get to know your father. As he does, you can use your father as a sounding board as to what he thinks of your man.

Could it be that your image of courting is more founded in books such as "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" than in reality?



realist_man -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/19/2008 4:53:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: relientkat

THERE!!! All the stuff between friends and married is courtship. Guys, would you be willing to find your future wife that way?



In a word, no. Jumping through those kinds of hoops just to please a woman and her daddy isn't really my thing. I'd move on to someone less demanding. Not that I have to worry about that any more.



DaveW -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/21/2008 6:36:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: relientkat

My parents and I believe courting to be this: Lets say "Bob" is a really good friend of mine. We hang out a lot with other friends but we've never been alone together. We've had lots of good talks and know each other well. Bob talks to my dad about pursuing a deeper relationship - hopefully marriage - with me. My dad agrees. I accept. Bob starts coming over to my house more regularly to spend time with me and my family. I do the same with Bob's family. Maybe a couple months, weeks, or even days go by and Bob asks my father's permission to marry me. I accept. We get married.
That sounds a whole lot better than what my former congregation did. (and yes they were a very controling group) I like the part of including your parents (assuming they are believers) in the process but perhaps his (believing) parents should also be involved?



Technophile -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/21/2008 7:17:31 PM)

i dont consider dating to be something lead by lust/temptation. the way i see it, a guy meets a girl that he is interested in (due to appearance, qualities, personality, etc). he asks her out on a date, maybe for coffee first, then dinner, and so on. the dates go well and they spend more time together. after a while (months, maybe over a year) of getting to know each other and enjoying dating, the guy asks her to marry him. the guy could ask her parents before this, but that is optional depending on the situation (parent may already be aware of their relationship, she could be an adult on her own, etc). at least thats how i see it going.



1love1God1way -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/21/2008 9:27:55 PM)

I think this courting vs. dating relationship debate is ridiculous.

I think courting puts WAY too much pressure on the relationship.

Guys and girls can't just have fun anymore. . .

By date one, we are already talking long-term commitment? Give me a break!



vikingfan -> RE: Courtship: Guys, Are You Willing? (4/21/2008 11:49:19 PM)

I agree.

That being said, parents should have WAY more input into the relationship and the families (both of them) should have quite a bit of say, but I don't believe to quite the extent that courtship does. That and I don't want to have to think 'do I want to marry this girl?' so early. The way I'd prefer to do it is to get to know her well and when I decide I am really interested in asking her to be my girlfriend, then I can ask her father if I know him well enough to do so.



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