what's been your experience? (Full Version)

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kernsfamily -> what's been your experience? (4/17/2008 10:32:06 AM)

And, your observations?

Why? It's that time of year again, when we spend quite a bit of time with my in-laws up in Northern Arkansas. Actually, my wife and the kids spend alot more time up there than I do (as I stay here and work)....usually for about a 4 week stretch in June/July...and, i'll fly up there once or twice while they are there to have a "vacation", too, because we love the area....and, primarily to get in some trout fishing time!

ANYWAY....

their church is dominated by "militant" homeschooling families. My wife cannot show up at their church without getting bombarded by "disdain" for the educational choice that God has led us to (public school)...and, has blessed us greatly for it....(and we are GUESTS at their church!!!!).....this has led to doing all we can to avoid attending their church altogether, but, understandably, her parents get all "upset" when we don't want to go to their church, while they do attend OUR church when they visit us.....

we've even tried to convince them to change churches....and, there are a ton of "issues" which keeps them there (primarily, because, according to them, it's the "only" church in their small town that has "Godly" music in the worship services)...

therein lies my question.....people such as those, LOVE to throw around this little "statistic":

According to the latest research, the decision to place one's kids in public school results in a 90% probability that they will walk away from Christianity soon after leaving home.

and, that's from something called "Nehimiah Institute"....went to their website, and still can't figure out what they do exactly....

I don't know about you, but that 90% number is so far "out of the ballpark".....it's laughable.....i dismiss it as pure propaganda...

so, for people who actually have kids in public school.....or have kids who have graduated from public school, what's your response when confronted with "statistics" like that? Iam sure y'all have at one time or another.....



garsyt -> RE: what's been your experience? (4/17/2008 10:55:03 AM)

While I've never been totally lambasted by a "miltant" homeschooler, I have been questioned routinely here and in real life about our decision to STOP homeschooling and send our children to public school.

Most of the time however all I say is that my husband and I prayed diligently about this matter, sought counsel from homeschoolers, public schoolers and private schoolers, researched the schools in our area, researched more, prayed more and didn't feel but KNEW God's answer when he gave it to us. All the doors that opened for us would have never opened had we not sought God in this matter. And this wasn't a short process either. It took a couple of years of work, especially on my heart and pride. I didn't want to be seen as a quitter, a "giver-upper." I feared ridcule from my homeschooling friends. I didn't want to FEEL like I gave up on my kids. Now however, my children are in a great school system, with wonderful teachers, a mostly challenging program, great parental involvement that is encouraged by the teachers and support personal. I tell people that God led me to this point and to do anything else would not be listening to him or following his guidance.

I'd like to see the actual research that that statistic is based off of.

ETA: Oh and ALL of my siblings and I were raised in a Christian home out of the six of us, 4 of us attend services regularly and all of us are Christians. And before someone refutes this by saying school were a lot different back in the day. I'm NOT that old! My baby brother is 13 years younger then me and a Former highschool/early college drug addict and he is the strongest Christian man that I KNOW! And he graduated from highschool only 7 years ago.

Blessings,

Garsy



Sideways -> RE: what's been your experience? (4/17/2008 10:56:42 AM)

May I speak as a child who was raised by Christian parents and attended public schools? I am now 30, and still hold to the faith, still attend church. My brother appears to have fallen away. He does not attend church, and refused to when I asked him to come with me to Easter service when I was visiting. He probably still believes in God, but does not consider himself to be a "religious person".

My husband and his brother were raised in private Christian and Catholic schools, and both still appear to be holding to their faith.

ETA: We will probably be sending our son to the local public schools, unless God directs us otherwise. We do live in a strong HSing area, but our church has its own school, so there might be more pressure to attend there. My inlaws are also Lutheran school teachers, so they feel pretty strongly about sending kids to Lutheran schools whenever possible. They've not given us any grief about it, though.



csl7037 -> RE: what's been your experience? (4/17/2008 11:34:24 AM)

You need to find your own bogus statistic to counter it, I think. You're not going to be able to reason with and satisfy people with that attitude. You need something to just get them off of it.



stellaluna -> RE: what's been your experience? (4/17/2008 11:57:36 AM)

My brothers and I were public schooled until I hit 9th grade. We had moved to a new city and we were attending a church that had a school. My parents got the same thing--totally bombarded with people telling them that Christian parents didn't have any business sending their kids to public school, that there was a government conspiracy to do away with Christianity by teaching kids "humanism" and all kinds of word-against-TOS.

My parents listened and put all of us in this school, where we were told we were way behind their academic standards. They started us all on schoolwork for the grade below where we had been in public school. Guess what? It was a joke. I breezed through a year's worth of work in a little over a semester; my brother's did the same. We were working so fast through their workbooks the teachers complained to my parents that we weren't "absorbing" any teaching.

But anyway, we all hated it: the rules were stifling and we were all in trouble all the time, the work was either too easy or poorly explained, I knew pretty quickly that nothing I was learning was going to benefit me in terms of going to college. After a few months, we were begging our parents to send us back to public school. It was a full three years before they gave in, and we all left the church at the same time. Our family was seriously ostracized when my parents pulled us out of school. [&:]



danas_mom -> RE: what's been your experience? (4/17/2008 2:46:17 PM)

I'm sure you already know this since your IL's live there, but there is major flooding in that area this year. The White River is 4' above flood stage in some places. So, be careful.

Anyway, to the point...

quote:

what's your response when confronted with "statistics" like that?


I've never been confronted about HS vs PS because we live in a predominately PS area, but my general response to any any overblown statistics quote is:

You can find statistics to back up anything you want to believe.

And then I change the subject.

Love what garsy says here -

"I tell people that God led me to this point and to do anything else would not be listening to him or following his guidance."

- because really, what are they going to say at that point? That you're not really hearing from God? That you haven't prayed about it enough? That would be stepping on some dangerous ground with me and they would find themselves with an earful right quick.

Good luck. I can't imagine how frustrating it is to always feel like you're having to defend the decisions you make concerning your family.



artemis -> RE: what's been your experience? (4/17/2008 4:01:25 PM)

As a public school teacher, I get a lot of comments from private school and homeschool parents. Aparently, being a public school teacher and a pastor's wife is an oxymoron. For the most part I just ignore them. There's not anything I can say that will change their mind and they're not going to convince me with their "facts" when I spend 180 days a year at a public school that is nothing like what they discribe.

As far as public school students falling away, I have no idea what the real statistics are, but I know that in my family, my parents have had 5 kids graduate from public school and all 5 of us regularly attend church. (I am not sure if one of my brothers is a Christian or not). My husband was also public schooled and he is three weeks away from finishing his masters of theology at DTS and is currently serving as a pastor at a small church. Now that I think about it, ALL of the ministers that I know in real life went to public school.



kernsfamily -> RE: what's been your experience? (4/17/2008 4:02:38 PM)

thanks for the replies....

quote:

Good luck. I can't imagine how frustrating it is to always feel like you're having to defend the decisions you make concerning your family.


and, at first, my inlaws were totally against Public School....then, they were seeing how well our daughters were doing, and they actually have been to the school for "functions" and were very impressed. now, they are "big fans" of the school.

quote:

"I tell people that God led me to this point and to do anything else would not be listening to him or following his guidance."


Very true..though, these people would reply with saying that God would NEVER "lead" you into a place like "that"....and whoever you're listening to, it certainly can't be God.

quote:

You need to find your own bogus statistic to counter it, I think.


One statistic that I KNOW has to be out there somewhere, is the number of public high school graduates that go on to a Christian College/University. We recently attended a function at our local high school (the one that our daughters will eventually be going to), and there was a "digital sign" thing in the cafeteria.....it was displaying an ongoing list of this year's graduating seniors, along with the colleges/universities they have committed to for the fall. The number of Christian schools was overwhelming.....Oauchita Baptist, Dallas Baptist, Baylor, Hardin-Simmons, Liberty, etc....etc.... And, that REALLY left me wondering......when are these "public school" kids gonna be "walking away" from Christianity like many have been convinced they would?????
Now, those kids attending Univ. of Texas, well, they better watch out! ha ha ha ha.... (we're aggies....just a joke)...

My main reason for asking "What is your experience?" it has to do with "Do YOU see many kids REALLY "walk away" from Christianity after public schooling?" Obviously, there are people who think so....if only to reinforce their pre-conceived notions....



Auben -> RE: what's been your experience? (4/17/2008 4:02:56 PM)

My personal response to that statistic would be to ask questions. Most people don't know anything more than the one-liner.

Is that based on the Barna surveys? How do they define christian? How many people were sampled? What area was covered? What were the survey questions? Etc.

I've been to that website before and I was impressed with the lack of scientific information given. In general they came off as a very passionate group with a lot of opinions and no reviewable data.

In my own life I've met very few rude homeschoolers. Most of them are pretty nice in person (even if they hold those same thoughts in private). Online is another story. As much as I support homeschool education (and I have for years by either contributing time teaching co-op language classes for free before I was married or homeschooling one of my own children) I have received some of the cruelest words online because I allow one of my sons to attend public school.

I'm sure homeschoolers have faced some of the same though. Now I just try to let it roll off my back.



locomom -> RE: what's been your experience? (4/18/2008 3:13:25 AM)

I'm a former homeschooler, former because my dd graduated from highschool 2 years ago. I did finally get tired of the my way must be far better than yours on any side of the school debate. I got to see friends hurt by all 3 attitudes. Self-righteousness is not godly!

Having said that, many homeschoolers feel called to teach their children at home. Although I could make a number of arguments for doing my version of school, the only real answer that no one can argue with is that through a solid month of prayer we began homeschooling because it was God's will for us. Of course we revisited this issue as time went on, we felt the same call all the way up through high school graduation. Were anyone to really want to know, I would be happy to talk about our practical reasons and our experience, but as Christians we make our decisions by taking our needs and wants to God in prayer.

Since I cannot claim any self-righteous superiority as a Christian, I assume you also have made a careful decision about your children. So tell these pesky people that God has led you to send your children to public school; that should minimize argument. I am so relieved I only had responsibility for my own child. Managing all my acquaintances children is just too hard.



JuliaHop -> RE: what's been your experience? (4/18/2008 9:30:25 AM)

quote:

My wife cannot show up at their church without getting bombarded by "disdain" for the educational choice that God has led us to (public school)...


By "disdain" do you mean that the membership verbally accosts your wife, or does she feel left out of the loop by the homeschool families?

Does the membership of this church confront your wife without her mentioning public school, or do you go in promoting public school as a great option?

I am sorry that you have faced this situation, however, I don't think it is the fact that the membership supports homeschooling as much as the church just has rude members.

People who make educational choices do not just limit their "disdain" to those who have made choices that are different. Homeschoolers will criticize other homeschoolers, public school parents will criticize other public schools, and private school parents will criticize other private schools. I know from first hand experience of using each of these educational resources.

Rather than concentrating on being angry at other people's ignorance, I would concentrate on praying for those individuals who lose their witness by constantly criticizing the decisions of other believers.



stampinlady -> RE: what's been your experience? (4/18/2008 10:11:53 AM)

Sadly, I think repect is lacking in all areas of life. I've homeschooled, private schooled and public schooled. All have been enjoyable. Had a few millitant hs'ers question me, but nothing no one was ever rude. When we chose to hs, we had family members act as if we were teaching our kids to be communists! Hmmmm, that one still sits in the back of my head. There's no way on earth that I'd ever return to a church that was so rude, even if my family attended.



kohls356 -> RE: what's been your experience? (4/18/2008 3:10:24 PM)

I sometimes wonder if people equate no longer attending church with turning away from Christianity.

My oldest will soon be 18 and she does not attend church. I used to wonder if the decision she made for Christ when she was young was genuine or not. But I no longer think that because her actions tell that she does have a geniune faith.

The sad thing is it is not the public schools that have turned my daughter away from attending church. It was a church that sounds a lot like your in-laws church that we left about 4 years ago that turned my daughter away from attending church. All but three families homeschooled in that church, (it was a small church) and my kids were made to feel inferior to those who hsed and put down for going to "that place". I could just go on about so much stuff my kids went through but it just opens old wounds that have healed.

We made her go to church up til about a year ago and then we stopped "fighting" with her about it. She will come to church at times but not every Sunday. We feel at this point this is her choice. I have talked to her quite a bit about it and she tells me yes mom I am a Christian, I just don't like sitting in a church being around people who think they are better than me when I see how they are outside of church. She just says that right now she doesn't want to go but does believe she will return to church at some point. I just pray and hope that she does but it is her choice. I do not believe in forcing church attendance on anyway because I think it backfires.

I haven't really been told that statistic, but I have heard so much other stuff from homeschoolers about how it is wrong for a Christian to send their kids to public school, how my children couldn't possibly be getting a good education you name it. I don't let it get to me and I really don't even give it any thought anymore. I am secure in my decision and don't need the approval of anyone and I don't feel the need to justify it either.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: what's been your experience? (4/19/2008 3:05:44 AM)

Do your in laws know the Duggars?

Anyway, regardless of that..

I would simply say to them, "Didn't you choose to homeschool, because you believed God gave you the responsibility to decide what was right for your child?" They, most likely, will say yes.

Then you say, "WELL, God gave ME the responsibility to decide what was right for MY child."

I am pretty pro home schooling, however, I also believe that one of the whole points of home schooling is that parents have perrogatives (sp), and that includes the perrogative not to homeschool. I also believe that another whole point of homeschooling is that every child is different. Because children are different, some will thrive better at home, and some will thrive better at school. Yes, I have seem children that were miserable and wilting in school, and then blossomed in homeschool (myself being one of them), but I have also seen children who did not do well at all homeschooling, and then started thriving when their parents put them in or returned them to school.

As big as homeschooling is getting, some of the groups may as well be a school. In some ways, I liked the idea of homeschooling my own kids (no I don't have any, I'm single), BEFORE it became as popular as it is now. Even homeschool people run into other homeschool people who pressure them to do it just like them. So, you can't win. As a parent, it's best to know you did your best, and just ignore them.



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