Think they are kind of missing the point? (Full Version)

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HisLamb26 -> Think they are kind of missing the point? (4/21/2008 10:39:40 AM)

Ok...Talk about a poor witness. Seems Two groups of Christians exchanged blows, and tried to hit police with PALM Branches as the police tried to break up a fight during the Orthodox Palm Sunday.

Is it me, or are a few of these folks kind of MISSING THE POINT?

[&:]

quote:

Dozens of Greek and Armenian priests and worshippers exchanged blows at one of Christianity's holiest shrines on Orthodox Palm Sunday,
and used palm fronds to pummel police who tried to break up the brawl.....

.....It erupted when Armenian clergy kicked out a Greek priest from their midst, pushed him to the ground and kicked him, according to witnesses.

When police intervened, some worshippers hit them with the palm fronds....


They'll Know We Are Christians By Our Love



mapachito13 -> RE: Think they are kind of missing the point? (4/21/2008 10:47:01 AM)

One can find that type of division between Christians in the US. I have seen "Christians" damning Christians of other denominations to hell (ie, calling them "unsaved") on these boards.

I guess that's what Jesus meant by not bringing peace but a sword. Paul admonished those people that stirred these things up.



HisLamb26 -> RE: Think they are kind of missing the point? (4/21/2008 10:53:10 AM)

Yea...I know. But it's not often I hear of Christians actually coming to blows over minor differences in doctrine or POV.



Leslie_JnJs_mom -> RE: Think they are kind of missing the point? (4/21/2008 11:25:32 AM)

Imagine what an unstopable force christians could be in world politics if they stood together as one instead of fighting one another over silly doctrine differences.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Think they are kind of missing the point? (4/21/2008 11:46:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2monkeysmom
Imagine what an unstopable force christians could be in world politics if they stood together as one instead of fighting one another over silly doctrine differences.

Doctrinal differences are not that trivial. It does matter what you believe, otherwise what is the point of religion?

It's ironic that you seem to endorse an unstoppable, united force of Christians:
"And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth."

Fundamental differences between people seems to be divinely ordered, according to the bible.



rabstark -> RE: Think they are kind of missing the point? (4/21/2008 11:54:06 AM)

The situation at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher is about as bad as it gets anywhere in christendom. The buildings are controlled by half a dozen Eastern Orthodox and Catholic sects, each of which loathes the others, and all of which loath the Ethiopian Coptic sect which has been reduced to having been perpetual squatters for several hundred years on one particular rooftop. The Israeli police have to break up fights like this on a fairly regular basis, and the worst incidents tend to fall during the period between Western and Eastern Easter celebrations.

The situation has been so bad for so long that the keys to the main doors to the church are held by a local Muslim family which was appointed several hundred years ago by the Ottoman government in order to prevent one sect from locking the others out of the complex.



HisLamb26 -> RE: Think they are kind of missing the point? (4/21/2008 2:36:43 PM)

quote:

The situation has been so bad for so long that the keys to the main doors to the church are held by a local Muslim family which was appointed several hundred years ago by the Ottoman government in order to prevent one sect from locking the others out of the complex.


I'd never heard that. Pretty sad state of affairs when a 3rd party has to hold the keys to keep 2 Christian sects from hurting each other.

Gee...I wonder how many converts they've won over by their love for one another.

(I'm thinking...."If you have not love...you are a noisy clanging gong...." thing might apply here.)

[8D]



mapachito13 -> RE: Think they are kind of missing the point? (4/21/2008 4:09:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

Fundamental differences between people seems to be divinely ordered, according to the bible.


The story is about presumptuous man trying to set himself apart from God and how God punished man.

God does not want man divided. Man wants man divided. Until Christians can respect each other in spite of their doctrinal differences and be more grown up than two year olds and share a space, problems like this are bound to occur.

It's amazing how people use their doctrinal differences as an excuse to demonize other Christians. Why can't we just recognize the fact that all denominations or non-denominations recognize "Jesus is Lord!"

Jesus commanded us to "Love our neighbor AND our enemies!" "If you love only those that love you, the pagans do as much!"

Boy, talk about making it tough to walk His walk!



rcjames -> RE: Think they are kind of missing the point? (4/21/2008 4:16:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

Fundamental differences between people seems to be divinely ordered, according to the bible.


The story is about presumptuous man trying to set himself apart from God and how God punished man.

God does not want man divided. Man wants man divided. Until Christians can respect each other in spite of their doctrinal differences and be more grown up than two year olds and share a space, problems like this are bound to occur.

It's amazing how people use their doctrinal differences as an excuse to demonize other Christians. Why can't we just recognize the fact that all denominations or non-denominations recognize "Jesus is Lord!"

Jesus commanded us to "Love our neighbor AND our enemies!" "If you love only those that love you, the pagans do as much!"

Boy, talk about making it tough to walk His walk!


So you do not concur with the Apostle Paul when he wrote;

(Gal 1:6) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

(Gal 1:7) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

(Gal 1:8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

(Gal 1:9) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

You think all believers should believe whatever anyone says and just live with it; well Paul did not thinks so, nor did the other writers of Scripture; who were witing under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Strange


Thanks
RC



mapachito13 -> RE: Think they are kind of missing the point? (4/21/2008 4:43:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

Fundamental differences between people seems to be divinely ordered, according to the bible.


The story is about presumptuous man trying to set himself apart from God and how God punished man.

God does not want man divided. Man wants man divided. Until Christians can respect each other in spite of their doctrinal differences and be more grown up than two year olds and share a space, problems like this are bound to occur.

It's amazing how people use their doctrinal differences as an excuse to demonize other Christians. Why can't we just recognize the fact that all denominations or non-denominations recognize "Jesus is Lord!"

Jesus commanded us to "Love our neighbor AND our enemies!" "If you love only those that love you, the pagans do as much!"

Boy, talk about making it tough to walk His walk!


So you do not concur with the Apostle Paul when he wrote;

(Gal 1:6) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

(Gal 1:7) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

(Gal 1:8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

(Gal 1:9) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

You think all believers should believe whatever anyone says and just live with it; well Paul did not thinks so, nor did the other writers of Scripture; who were witing under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Strange


Thanks
RC


No. I didn't say you had to accept it as truth. The trouble is there are so many denominations that have been around for hundreds, if not two thousand years. You are allowed to discern, according to Scripture, but we are not allowed to judge.

Discern: I am going to belong (or not belong) to this or that congregation due to my personal, prayerful, reflection of Scripture.

Judge: You're going to hell because you belong (or not belong) to this or that congregation.

Only God has the power to JUDGE. I surely wouldn't be that presumptuous.



martyfran -> RE: Think they are kind of missing the point? (4/21/2008 4:44:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames



So you do not concur with the Apostle Paul when he wrote;

(Gal 1:6) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

(Gal 1:7) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

(Gal 1:8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

(Gal 1:9) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

You think all believers should believe whatever anyone says and just live with it; well Paul did not thinks so, nor did the other writers of Scripture; who were witing under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Strange


Thanks
RC


I am not sure that the Gospel says that we should have fist fights to determine the truth.



rabstark -> RE: Think they are kind of missing the point? (4/21/2008 4:55:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: martyfran

I am not sure that the Gospel says that we should have fist fights to determine the truth.


And in the case of the situation at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher as referred to in the OP, the fist fights in question weren't over "truth" or doctrine... Both sects are Eastern Orthodox and believe basically the same things re. doctrine. The fight was over whether or not a Greek Orthodox priest should have been in the inner sanctuary at a time when only Armenian Orthodox priests were supposed to be there.



rcjames -> RE: Think they are kind of missing the point? (4/21/2008 5:01:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: martyfran
I am not sure that the Gospel says that we should have fist fights to determine the truth.


Well I am not sure about fist fights, Pausl says accursed (sent to hell) and Peter in referrencing false teachers that their end is worse that their beginning; with their beginnin being eternity is hell, what is worse.

Thanks
RC



mcleod -> RE: Think they are kind of missing the point? (4/21/2008 5:01:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

Fundamental differences between people seems to be divinely ordered, according to the bible.


The story is about presumptuous man trying to set himself apart from God and how God punished man.

God does not want man divided. Man wants man divided. Until Christians can respect each other in spite of their doctrinal differences and be more grown up than two year olds and share a space, problems like this are bound to occur.

It's amazing how people use their doctrinal differences as an excuse to demonize other Christians. Why can't we just recognize the fact that all denominations or non-denominations recognize "Jesus is Lord!"

Jesus commanded us to "Love our neighbor AND our enemies!" "If you love only those that love you, the pagans do as much!"

Boy, talk about making it tough to walk His walk!


So you do not concur with the Apostle Paul when he wrote;

(Gal 1:6) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

(Gal 1:7) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

(Gal 1:8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

(Gal 1:9) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

You think all believers should believe whatever anyone says and just live with it; well Paul did not thinks so, nor did the other writers of Scripture; who were witing under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Strange


Thanks
RC


Okay RC you come up with some good verses on the negative side of life.
Here's on for you to ponder over Philipians 2:1-4. If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love being one spirit and purpose. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interest, but also to the interest of others.
Let's start wars over a triva stuff. Yes I can see it now in heaven God is just smiling from spectrum of the galazy to the next how we treat each other.
By the way that is from the person who said was a crude human being. Yet to when I studying him and his writings found it to be the opposite and had great love and compassion.



URForgiven -> RE: Think they are kind of missing the point? (4/21/2008 5:02:56 PM)

In answer to the question, yes , they are missing the point.



rcjames -> RE: Think they are kind of missing the point? (4/21/2008 5:04:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Discern: I am going to belong (or not belong) to this or that congregation due to my personal, prayerful, reflection of Scripture.

Judge: You're going to hell because you belong (or not belong) to this or that congregation.

Only God has the power to JUDGE. I surely wouldn't be that presumptuous.


Paul says if they teach differntly then they should be in hell.

So is that judging or discerning.

Thnnks
RC



mapachito13 -> RE: Think they are kind of missing the point? (4/21/2008 5:38:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Discern: I am going to belong (or not belong) to this or that congregation due to my personal, prayerful, reflection of Scripture.

Judge: You're going to hell because you belong (or not belong) to this or that congregation.

Only God has the power to JUDGE. I surely wouldn't be that presumptuous.


Paul says if they teach differntly then they should be in hell.

So is that judging or discerning.

Thnnks
RC


How about Jesus' own words!
Matthew 7:1-5,21-23; 18:1-4; 23:12-15

What is Jesus' judgement criteria? Matthew 25:31-46

And that is just from ONE Gospel.



lightshineon -> RE: Think they are kind of missing the point? (4/21/2008 6:25:08 PM)

Good Heavens! Well yeah I would say they missed it. I know of two men ( brothers) who stabbed each other, over if speaking in tounges is still for today. I think though, maybe sometimes on this board we miss the point too. I know I get out of sorts sometimes too.[:@]



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