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[Poll]
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Could Jesus have sinned?
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| Jesus was God so he was infallible |
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| Jesus was tempted so he could have sinned |
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| I am not sure, but am leaning toward Him being infallible |
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| I am not sure, but am leaning toward him being fallible |
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| I have no idea. |
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Total Votes : 44
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(last vote on : 9/3/2008 1:56:50 AM)
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Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/21/2008 8:08:39 PM
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Beanteaser
Posts: 275
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From: Minnesota
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I discussed this topic several months ago but want know how people would respond to a poll.
I think most of agree that Jesus lived a perfect, sinless life. That isn't what this poll is about. This poll is about COULD he have sinned if He wanted to. Feel free to debate this if you'd like, but please pick the option that you agree with most.
Thanks!
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/21/2008 8:33:58 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1903
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No. Absolutely not.
And you might want to consider substituting "impeccable" for "infallible", although both terms apply to Christ.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/21/2008 10:16:08 PM
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Prairiehiker
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Wouldn't that not make him fully human if he wasn't given free will like the rest of us?
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/21/2008 10:19:12 PM
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heavensmailman
Posts: 97
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Was Jesus human just like us?
Was he tempted in everyway just like us?
Was his temptations real?
If Jesus could not have sinned, why was Satan allowed to tempt him?
Did Jesus ever say that he had over came temptation ?
Does Jesus call God our Father his God?
Did Peter and Paul also call God our Father, Jesus's God?
Did Jesus say to God our Father, not My will , but Your will ?
Did Jesus sin? NO!!
Could Jesus have sinned? God's word says Yes!
Peace
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/22/2008 12:18:24 AM
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bob97
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If Jesus was not perfect in His Spiritual Growth he would have sinned when tempted, just like man does today. If he was perfect in His Spiritual Growth then He was incapable of sin but I believe He could feel the temptation of the flesh in all its force.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/22/2008 12:33:01 AM
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Ezra
Posts: 1903
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
Wouldn't that not make him fully human if he wasn't given free will like the rest of us?
Prairiehiker:
The "rest of us", from Adam to the "best of us" are all tainted with what is called "the old man" or "the sin nature". We are sinners by birth and by choice.
Because Jesus was born of a virgin, and conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was unlike the rest of humanity in His soul, even though He had a human body and human feelings.
Furthermore, He was the God-Man, which means that the "free will" of the Son of God was always in perfect obedience to the will of His Father. He and the Father are "one". There was never a moment when Christ was not doing the Father's will, and the Father's will was that the Holy One of Israel would remain holy all His earthly days. Holiness is the absence of sin.
Once again, we are dealing with a mystery -- the mystery of godliness. That "God was manifest[ed] in the flesh" (1 Tim. 3:16).
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/22/2008 12:48:50 AM
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Ezra
Posts: 1903
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Was Jesus human just like us? Yes and No
Was he tempted in everyway just like us? Yes
Was his temptations real? Yes
If Jesus could not have sinned, why was Satan allowed to tempt him?
To prove that He could not be enticed to sin
Did Jesus ever say that he had over came temptation?
No. He said He had overcome "the world".
Does Jesus call God our Father his God? Yes
Did Peter and Paul also call God our Father, Jesus's God? Yes
Did Jesus say to God our Father, not My will , but Your will? Yes
Did Jesus sin? NO!!
Could Jesus have sinned? God's word says Yes! Where?
What the Word says in Hebrews 4:15 is "but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" [or apart from sin]. What this means is that the temptations were real, but the inner response from the Son of God to those temptations was complete and total indifference.
Scripture says that God cannot be tempted with evil (Jas. 1:13). Jesus is God (in human form). He cannot be tempted with evil.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/22/2008 12:52:29 AM
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Ezra
Posts: 1903
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quote:
If Jesus was not perfect in His Spiritual Growth he would have sinned when tempted, just like man does today.
bob:
It was not possible for Jesus to sin under any circumstances. He was the God-Man from His conception, and He remains so. God cannot sin, even when He is in human form.
Undoubtedly, this is a mystery, but true nonetheless.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/22/2008 1:04:21 AM
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bob97
Posts: 1774
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From: Kansas
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quote:
Undoubtedly, this is a mystery, but true nonetheless.
Ezra... I totally agree, Christ has the nature of God, He could not sin but at the same time He underwent all of the temptations of man so He could be our perfect High Priest;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Heb 5:10 Called of God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/23/2008 12:47:29 AM
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Ezra
Posts: 1903
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
Undoubtedly, this is a mystery, but true nonetheless.
Ezra... I totally agree, Christ has the nature of God, He could not sin but at the same time He underwent all of the temptations of man so He could be our perfect High Priest;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Heb 5:10 Called of God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.
Bob
Amen. The Lamb of God must be without blemish. And He must also be a merciful and faithful High Priest. Amazing Grace!
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/23/2008 1:24:52 AM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
Wouldn't that not make him fully human if he wasn't given free will like the rest of us?
Ezra's resonse:
Prairiehiker:
The "rest of us", from Adam to the "best of us" are all tainted with what is called "the old man" or "the sin nature". We are sinners by birth and by choice.
Because Jesus was born of a virgin, and conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was unlike the rest of humanity in His soul, even though He had a human body and human feelings.
Furthermore, He was the God-Man, which means that the "free will" of the Son of God was always in perfect obedience to the will of His Father. He and the Father are "one". There was never a moment when Christ was not doing the Father's will, and the Father's will was that the Holy One of Israel would remain holy all His earthly days. Holiness is the absence of sin.
Once again, we are dealing with a mystery -- the mystery of godliness. That "God was manifest[ed] in the flesh" (1 Tim. 3:16).
Ezra,
The best post I've read in a long time! The Holy Spirit gifted you with a flawless defense of our Lord's nature and the mystery of godliness. All I can say is....Amen and Praise God!
Heavendweller
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/23/2008 2:30:43 AM
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Sartrian
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It's an interesting thread, but yes, according to the Jewish law, Jesus sinned tremendously.
Deuteronomy 13:1- 13:6 states that any prophet who brings "signs or wonders," or miracles, and tells the people to worship a god besides Yahweh (Holy Spirit, Jesus himself), is not a prophet, and "must be put to death."
Also, he clashed with the law of the Tanakh (which permitted divorce in Deuteronomy 24:1) by saying that all divorce was illegal, and that the participants in the remarriages were adulterers (Mark 10:11, Matthew 5:32). While Judaism frowns on divorce, it regards the act as justifiable. Jesus's comments contrast completely with the law of the Tanakh.
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/23/2008 7:04:43 AM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sartrian
It's an interesting thread, but yes, according to the Jewish law, Jesus sinned tremendously.
And according to you? What do you think? Do you concur with what you understand to be the "Jewish law?"
Sartrian, I think you need to be very careful here. You just might be going against the TOS. Unless I'm misunderstanding your comment here.
Heavendweller
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/23/2008 10:11:47 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1903
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quote:
I'm an atheist. I don't believe that the Jewish law had any validity, and I don't think that Jesus had any validity either. I'm responding to the question, "Could Jesus have sinned?
Sartrian:
You may think that you have no belief system because (1) you do not believe that God exists, (2) you do not believe that the Law of Moses has any validity and (3) you do not believe that Jesus has any validity. In this situation, whether or not Jesus could have sinned is entirely moot.
Unbelief in itself is a belief system. The rejection of all that is God or godly is a belief system. That is why atheistic communism was a philosophy or belief system.
But rejection of anything does not necessarily validate the rejecter. All it proves is that you are incapable of believing. Which also means that there is a serious lack within you. A "void" if you will.
Furthermore, the rejection of any kind of objective reality by a human being does not mean that that reality is invalid. All it means is that that person prefers delusion to reality. And there are many deluded people on this planet.
God is real, and so is Christ Jesus (who is God). Scripture is real, and so are the truths revealed therein. They have validated themselves in the lives of millions. There is such a thing as truth (since even science strives to establish the truth objectively in the material world) and there is such a Being as God. Both Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein acknowledged this, and both were genuises.
Now Scripture says that "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God" (Romans 10:17).
Scripture also says that "But without faith it is impossible to please Him. For he that cometh to God must (1) believe that He is, and (2) that He is a rewarded of them that diligently seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6).
The only way that anyone can arrive at the truth is to read the Word of God and believe it. Millions have done so to their eternal benefit. But they have come to Scripture as "little children" to be taught. Not to sit in judgment over the Judge of all the earth.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/23/2008 11:37:57 PM
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JordanW
Posts: 691
Joined: 4/23/2008
From: Bakersfield, California
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Jesus was God so he was infallible, therefore there was no way he could have sinned.
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/24/2008 12:35:37 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7425
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quote:
And if I had an incorrect buzzer, I'd have hit it with the force of a thousand hammers. Unbelief itself is a conclusion reached on logic, whereas belief is a conclusion reached on faith. The two are utterly parallel.
Why would you need 'logic' not to believe in anything? I mean, couldn't you just choose not to believe in anything? That path would seem to require the least amount of thought.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/24/2008 1:52:15 AM
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Kath
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Sartrian
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/24/2008 10:38:44 AM
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Prairiehiker
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Ok, I'm beginning to get it. Jesus couldn't sin because it is not in his nature to sin. He had the freedom to choose, but because of who he is, he would always choose to follow the will of the father. Just like I have the freedom to choose to run or ride my bike, I would always choose to run as it is what I do. Ok, maybe that's not a good analogy, but it explains to me about the different views about freedom. We are only free to choose if we can choose between two options, but are choices are still dictated by who we are, and that makes us not completely free. Does that make sense?
So, Jesus wasn't like Adam who only has the image of God, and was free to choose between good or evil, but Jesus was God and can only choose good because that is who God is. Am I getting it?
< Message edited by Prairiehiker -- 4/24/2008 10:45:35 AM >
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/24/2008 10:56:31 AM
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Judah1966
Posts: 135
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He could have but He did not or He would not have been raised from the dead to be our PERFECT substitute.Hebrews 4:15 For we have not a high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities but was in all points tempted like as we are yet without sin.Luke22:44And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly:and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling to the ground.Hebrews12:4Ye have not yet resisted unto blood,striving against sin.The question that may be asked is.. Is it a sin to even ask such a question?Is Jesus still a stranger to you?He would not have strove so much against sin if it had not been possible for him but praise God He did strive and conquered sin hell and the grave. He won, it was the most couragious battle fought that we know of in histories past.The Victories full comprehension is still yet to be seen but highly antisipated by some.
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Treat others the way you want to be treated and you will fulfill the requirements of the law and live.My pic is some of Hurricane Katrina coming on land in 05.We relocated because of it and will continue to feel its affects maybe for life.
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/24/2008 11:16:49 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Judah1966
...He would not have strove so much against sin if it had not been possible for him but praise God He did strive...
Can you show some examples of Jesus striving mightily against sin? That sounds more like Hollywood's image of Christ to me. I find that He was offered things by Satan that would have been sin to accept in the way presented, but there doesn't seem to be a striving against sin. The only place I notice Jesus under intense pressure was just before His arrest since, being God incarnate, He knew what He was about to endure for our sin.
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/25/2008 6:37:58 AM
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DaveW
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If it were impossible for him to sin, the concept of temptation becomes meaningless.
That totally invalidates the devil tempting him in the wilderness and renders these verses meaningless:
Heb 2:18 For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/25/2008 11:46:18 AM
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bob97
Posts: 1774
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From: Kansas
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Not really sure what I’m talking about here but….I will anyway.
Christ who is the expressed image of God and the brightness of His glory but also born of flesh.
It seems that Christ could feel the pull of all the temptations of the flesh and experience the desire but at the same time because of His other self actually being God was incapable of doing wrong…How can God do wrong? If He could do wrong, then it would be right.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/25/2008 12:04:57 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3165
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quote:
It seems that Christ could feel the pull of all the temptations of the flesh and experience the desire but at the same time because of His other self actually being God was incapable of doing wrong Sorry, Bob, this explanation borders on the gnostic concept of separating physical body from spiritual soul. God was BOTH fully human and fully divine, not two parts of different "other selfs". DaveW is 100% correct - it cannot be a real temptation without the capacity to succumb to it!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/25/2008 12:41:47 PM
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Sabellius
Posts: 51
Joined: 6/27/2005
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The term infallible should probably be changed to impeccable, in this poll. No, I do not believe Jesus could sin. Jesus was tempted as it was possible in the realm of the Incarnation. Jesus could not sin because He was truly a God-man. The only begotten from God the Father. It is not possible to consider Jesus as being ONLY man and acting independently of His divinity. God cannot sin, and cannot be tempted by sin (Jesus did not experience immoral temptations). The only way Jesus could have sinned was if He was ONLY a man. This was not the case. He was fully God and man. A union of true humanity with deity infused inseparably. When God wanted to come close to man and allow him to see Him...He gave us Jesus. Jesus is our perfect example. Through Jesus we experience a New Birth and are being spiritually transformed to what He intended us to be in the first place. At the dawn of Creation, before sin. It is a restoring of relationship between God and man.
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 4/25/2008 12:44:37 PM
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Sabellius
Posts: 51
Joined: 6/27/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
If it were impossible for him to sin, the concept of temptation becomes meaningless.
That totally invalidates the devil tempting him in the wilderness and renders these verses meaningless:
Heb 2:18 For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
Jesus was tempted but He was only tempted as something He could be tempted of as God. There were no immoral temptations that came to Christ. A temptation presupposes a desire if only for a moment. If He is merely a man, then yes He could have sinned and experienced immoral temptation.
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