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Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 8:42:12 PM
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xc279
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Hi, I was a Christian for basically all my life. I went to a Christian school until junior high at which point I moved and started going to public school. I read the Da Vinci Code which (I know it is fiction) was enough for me to start doubting. I did research on my own to try and figure out the truth. I discovered that there are no historical records of anything that Jesus did outside of the Bible. The Bible also had no proof to support it.
On a spiritual level I also had my doubts. I never asked to be created. How can a loving God send people to Hell just for not loving him? I know that the reason for this was because all have sinned and fallen short the glory of God. But if he created sin (since he created everything), he created hell, he made the laws and decided that if anyone disobeyed them and chose not to love him that they would spend eternity in hell, then why should I love him?
Can anyone shed some light on this?
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 8:47:46 PM
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Jesusfreak108
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Ooooh deap questions. This is kinda huge, and it is normal to doubt stuff like this. Please read "Case For Christ" by Lee Strobel. He and his wife were atheists. His wife converted to Christianity so Lee Strobel decided to prove that Christianty was a HUGE hoax. Doing so, he realized just the opposite.
I will try to answer your question later, but I have a question for you: Why Buddhism?
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 8:48:13 PM
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violinist_for_jesus
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No historical records??? What about the writtings of Josephus?
And he did not directly create sin. He gave us the capacity to make choices. All choices have consequences. And if we choose to sin, then the consequence of that is death.
And why do you love Him? Because the ONLY righteous and holy man ever born, the only person to live a perfect life. First loved YOU before you even knew who He was.
He loved you so much that He was willing to die on that cross for you. He died in a horrible way. For you. So that you could escape the penalty of your sins. He became the payment for YOUR(and every person who's been born) sins.
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 8:54:41 PM
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xc279
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Yes but my point is that since he chose to send people to hell in the first place then why should I be thankful that he killed his son in order to stop people from going?
And the reason that I like Buddhism is that it offers a way to become a better person simply because you want to be a better person. There are no angry God's or punishment if you screw up. It just makes sense.
EDIT: Josephus was born after Jesus. Therefore he cannot be considered evidence.
< Message edited by xc279 -- 4/21/2008 9:00:50 PM >
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 8:55:42 PM
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GradySizemorefan24
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xc.... I know what it's like to suffer with doubt, I went through a period of my life where doubt was all my life consisted of. And to be honest it was a scary time, I suffered from panic attacks, but then one day God rescued me from this mess, with love, love beyond human capacity. Laurel is right about Lee Strobel, another book he wrote is called a Case for Faith, this may also help right now. But the thing that got me through was reading my Bible, and you know there were times that I didn't even believe what I was reading, I doubted it beyond belief, but I kept reading anyway, because God says His word will not return void, so I knew that if I kept reading that something would eventually click. The Bible is not just another book, it's alive it has power and it helps. I will pray for you, remember this Jesus loves you, repeat that to yourself if you have to, that's what I did.
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 9:08:06 PM
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xc279
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And yes, I have read The Case for Christ. He interviewed all the experts defending Christianity but none of those that disagreed with Christianity.
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 9:11:18 PM
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GradySizemorefan24
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well my best advice is pray to God, even if you don't want to, He'll listen, read His word, even if you don't want to, He'll bless you.
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 9:18:30 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: xc279
Yes but my point is that since he chose to send people to hell in the first place then why should I be thankful that he killed his son in order to stop people from going?
He didn't choose to send people there. People chose to rebel against their creator. It's our fault, not His.
I think you need to better research Christianity before you decide to walk away from it. . .
quote:
And the reason that I like Buddhism is that it offers a way to become a better person simply because you want to be a better person. There are no angry God's or punishment if you screw up. It just makes sense.
It just makes sense? You are willing to base your eternity on a whimsical feeling of warm-fuzzies?
Religion is about Truth. Not about "being a better person."
quote:
EDIT: Josephus was born after Jesus. Therefore he cannot be considered evidence.
That is false. Again, your research seems to be very incomplete. Keep pursuing truth.
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 9:29:23 PM
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xc279
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: xc279
Yes but my point is that since he chose to send people to hell in the first place then why should I be thankful that he killed his son in order to stop people from going?
He didn't choose to send people there. People chose to rebel against their creator. It's our fault, not His.
I think you need to better research Christianity before you decide to walk away from it. . .
quote:
And the reason that I like Buddhism is that it offers a way to become a better person simply because you want to be a better person. There are no angry God's or punishment if you screw up. It just makes sense.
It just makes sense? You are willing to base your eternity on a whimsical feeling of warm-fuzzies?
Religion is about Truth. Not about "being a better person."
quote:
EDIT: Josephus was born after Jesus. Therefore he cannot be considered evidence.
That is false. Again, your research seems to be very incomplete. Keep pursuing truth.
quote:
That is false. Again, your research seems to be very incomplete. Keep pursuing truth.
Josephus was born in 37 AD meaning he was born three years after Jesus died.
And no, if he created a place and demanded that if people not follow his rules that they would go there then that would be his fault not ours. It would be our fault if we made our own rules and then disobeyed them.
And Buddhism isn't about eternity. It isn't about getting "warm-fuzzies". It is about truth. It just doesn't tie it into a hope of the afterlife or belief in a book which has evidence disproving it.
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 9:34:30 PM
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IceQueen15
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it seems now i'm starting to doubt and i know something that is real and that is when u feel the Lord's presence u feel like your dizzy but its actaully him right 1love1God1way?
< Message edited by Holybattleaxe -- 4/21/2008 9:50:20 PM >
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 9:49:10 PM
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Real_Solitude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: xc279
I discovered that there are no historical records of anything that Jesus did outside of the Bible. The Bible also had no proof to support it.
This is only half true. There is a little bit of extra biblical evidence for the existence of Jesus. A greater majority of historians with relevant learning agree that Jesus existed. This includes a greater majority of secular historians. However, there is no agreement that the Jesus that existed is the 'same' person as the Jesus of the Bible. The major opinion (among secular historians) seems to be that Jesus was simply a spiritual leader of a group of people. There is no extrabiblical evidence that Jesus was the son of God, nor had 'powers'.
quote:
On a spiritual [...] Can anyone shed some light on this?
A better spot for these questions might be the "God" folder, or the "morality and ethics" folder.
quote:
And the reason that I like Buddhism is that it offers a way to become a better person simply because you want to be a better person. There are no angry God's or punishment if you screw up. It just makes sense.
There are some major misconceptions about Buddhism that should probably be gotten out in the open before you make a decision.
Let's look at some of the fun things that Buddhism says. The first of the Four Noble truths is "Life is Suffering." Not exactly a positive outlook on life. Number two is that "Attachment causes suffering." This applies not only to attachment to 'worldly' things like money, but also to attachment to people. Good fun in that one.
The Eightfold path is okay in and of itself, but when applied to the Four Noble truths become useless. For instance, "Right actions" seems like a good aspiration until you realize that it means actions that lead you away from any attachment, including those pesky relationships.
Another good one is "Right Livelihood", which includes harming no animals. That means no cheeseburgers for you.
Then we get to the real fun stuff. Three of the Eight Precepts are as follows:
6. To refrain from eating at the wrong time. (only eat from sunrise to noon)
7. To refrain from dancing, using jewelry, going to shows, etc.
8. To refrain from using a high, luxurious bed.
So no food after noon, no concerts, and you have to sleep on the floor (or a mattress on the floor).
Buddhism has some good stuff in it, like the contributions it's made towards meditative technique. However, most of the religion is complete rubbish. You might as well just look through it, take the stuff you like (assumedly dealing with self-improvement) and ditch the rest. Or for that matter, just be a humanist that meditates. If you're just going for self-improvement, you might as well follow Jainism. At least Jainism has, perhaps, the most peaceful history of any religion. Buddhism has as bloody a history as Islam or Christianity.
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 9:53:28 PM
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xc279
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Actually there are only five precepts. They are:
1. I undertake the training rule to abstain from taking life.
2. I undertake the training rule to abstain from taking what is not given.
3. I undertake the training rule to abstain from sexual misconduct.
4. I undertake the training rule to abstain from false speech.
5. I undertake the training rule to abstain from drinks and drugs that cause heedlessness.
< Message edited by xc279 -- 4/21/2008 10:13:02 PM >
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 10:07:37 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Holybattleaxe
it seems now i'm starting to doubt and i know something that is real and that is when u feel the Lord's presence u feel like your dizzy but its actaully him right 1love1God1way?
Sometimes there is a "quiver in the liver" when you are in God's presence. . .
But feelings are not a necessity.
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 10:12:02 PM
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IceQueen15
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well if iremember right my dad (hes a pastor) said thats the Lord when i feel the Lord i think thats what he said =) thank the Lord for his presence!!!!!!!
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 10:19:36 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: xc279
Actually there are only five precepts. They are:
1. I undertake the training rule to abstain from taking life.
2. I undertake the training rule to abstain from taking what is not given.
3. I undertake the training rule to abstain from sexual misconduct.
4. I undertake the training rule to abstain from false speech.
5. I undertake the training rule to abstain from drinks and drugs that cause heedlessness.
And that is enough to make you are "good" person? To grant you eternal life?
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love.ben
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 10:23:58 PM
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xc279
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quote:
1love1God1way
And that is enough to make you are "good" person? To grant you eternal life?
No, there is more to it than that. They are simply the starting point to examine yourself and help you to become a good person. And no it does not lead to eternal life. I no longer believe in eternal life.
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 10:28:04 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: xc279
quote:
1love1God1way
And that is enough to make you are "good" person? To grant you eternal life?
No, there is more to it than that. They are simply the starting point to examine yourself and help you to become a good person. And no it does not lead to eternal life. I no longer believe in eternal life.
And what brought about this change in your views? What made you feel that you are only a temporal being?
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 10:35:45 PM
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ShutterBox
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I sense that some one is afraid of good old responsibility. If you want to be a good person, following Christ is the way. If the bible doesn't spell out righteousness clear enough, then I don't know what to say. And where is the proof that Buddha is truly a Godly being somewhere who can do the things God does? And if Buddhism is so great, why are the Bhudist countries mostly in poverty and why are their societies in such bad shape?
btw, all those "abstaining from"s, are in the bible to.
It does sound like you are basing your judgment on warm-fuzzies instead of what is hard truth.
btw... "it's our fault if we make our own rules and not follow them" was a joke right?
Brother, it's our fault when we chose to disobey any rule, ours or not. God didn't make us, makes rules and then make us break them so that he could mercilessly condemn us to Hell. That would completely defeat the purpose of him sending Jesus to die for us. We were given a free will to either serve the one who created us and cares for us, or to disobey and face punishment.
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 10:43:53 PM
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Real_Solitude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: xc279
Actually there are only five precepts. They are:
Before using "actually" to correct someone, it's good to do a Google search. Or even Wikipedia.
"The Eight Precepts are the precepts for Buddhist lay men and women who wish to practice a bit more strictly than the usual five precepts for Buddhists. The eight precepts focus both on avoiding morally bad behaviour, and on leading a more ascetic lifestyle. The five precepts, however, focus only on avoiding morally bad behaviour.[...]
In Theravada Buddhist countries such as Sri Lanka and Thailand, Buddhist laymen and laywomen will often spend one day a week (on the Uposatha days: the new moon, first-quarter moon, full moon and last-quarter moon days) living in the monastery, and practicing the eight precepts."
Not to be a jerk, but... actually, there are eight precepts. They are:
1. I undertake to abstain from taking life (both human and nonhuman).
2. I undertake to abstain from taking what is not given (stealing).
3. I undertake to abstain from all sexual activity.
4. I undertake to abstain from telling lies.
5. I undertake to abstain from using intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness.
6. I undertake to abstain from eating at the wrong time (the right time is eating once, after sunrise, before noon).
7. I undertake to abstain from singing, dancing, playing music, attending entertainment performances, wearing perfume, and using cosmetics and garlands (decorative accessories).
8. I undertake to abstain from luxurious places for sitting or sleeping.
_____________________________
"Instead of feeling alone in a group its better to have real solitude all by yourself."
~Faye Valentine
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 10:57:15 PM
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hawknelsonismyfriend
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I dont understand how THIS looks better to you than THIS. Jesus actually died on the cross for you because He loves you that much. All you gave to do is give Him your life. I mean, He DIED for you, giving you the free gift of salvation, so you can live in eternity with Him. I think we're all going to pray that God opens your eyes to what you're thinking about.
_____________________________
...You all laugh at me like I'm not happy
With anything, anytime, anywhere
And the half of me is all about apathy
And the other half just doesn't care...
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 11:19:51 PM
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xc279
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The eight precepts are for theravada buddhism. The five precepts are for mahyana buddhism which is the more common of the two. And Shutterbox, Buddha was not a "godly being. He was just human which is why we don't worship him. And disobeying was not what I said was god's fault. The choice to send people to hell for eternity for breaking a rule that he made and then killing his son and having him be dead for three days and expecting us to love him because if we don't we'll burn for all eternity was what I said was God"s fault.
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 11:28:59 PM
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_MavericK_
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I look at it this way:
God created humans perfect. But He never forced them to love Him. What's the point in being loved by a being that has no choice? They'd be a puppet. On the same note, what's the point in having your created being obey you if they have no choice?
God gave Adam and Eve the choice to obey him or disobey him. They fell to temptation and disobeyed him--- just as Lucifer had before them. Because God is righteous and holy, he CANNOT allow imperfect creatures into perfect heaven. That would put him in the position of the ignorant grandfather who doesn't care how bad his grandchildren are because he'll still give them everything they want.
Then God gave the Israelites the Law of Moses, or the Ten Commandments. Ten laws, JUST ten laws that would prove to the Israelites that they were not perfect and needed him to save them. Through faith that God alone is perfect and can justify them, the early patriarchs were saved.
Fast forward. All of the sacrifices that the Israelites had to go through to make themselves sanctified were becoming too much of a religion and not a relationship. So God sent his Son to die once and for all to take the burden of sin from everyone who will take it. Through faith, you are sanctified. God doesn't want to condemn anyone to Hell. But if we choose to live our lives apart from him, he is ultimately giving us what we want-- an eternity apart from him.
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 11:30:43 PM
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hawknelsonismyfriend
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This might help. www.notreligion.com
_____________________________
...You all laugh at me like I'm not happy
With anything, anytime, anywhere
And the half of me is all about apathy
And the other half just doesn't care...
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 11:42:56 PM
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Real_Solitude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: xc279
The eight precepts are for theravada buddhism. The five precepts are for mahyana buddhism which is the more common of the two. And Shutterbox, Buddha was not a "godly being. He was just human which is why we don't worship him. And disobeying was not what I said was god's fault. The choice to send people to hell for eternity for breaking a rule that he made and then killing his son and having him be dead for three days and expecting us to love him because if we don't we'll burn for all eternity was what I said was God"s fault.
That's another reason to not join Buddhism. If you're going to leave a religion, might as well move onto one that's unified.
As far as your sin/punishment question, I don't think you're going to get a satisfactory answer. A lot of religions have inclusion clauses. If you follow the letter of the religion, you get rewarded. If you fail to believe, you're punished. This serves to benefit the religion by spreading its message through fear.
One interesting thing to note is that hell, as it's perceived by most Christians, wasn't even in the Old Testament. The Jewish people believe(d?) that everyone went to the same place when they died. People who were Jewish got to be closer to God, and people who weren't were separate from God. Other believed that only the souls of the Jewish people survived death. Still others believed that the soul died with the body. But the main thing to note is that there was no real 'punisment' (other than feeling shame) for not believing as they did. It's not until the later Jewish and New Testament that Hell as is familiar today was added. Wikipedia has a good synopsis of the history of the Christian hell. <- click that link.
_____________________________
"Instead of feeling alone in a group its better to have real solitude all by yourself."
~Faye Valentine
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RE: Thinking of converting to Buddhism - 4/21/2008 11:52:12 PM
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xc279
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Real_Solitude
quote:
ORIGINAL: xc279
The eight precepts are for theravada buddhism. The five precepts are for mahyana buddhism which is the more common of the two. And Shutterbox, Buddha was not a "godly being. He was just human which is why we don't worship him. And disobeying was not what I said was god's fault. The choice to send people to hell for eternity for breaking a rule that he made and then killing his son and having him be dead for three days and expecting us to love him because if we don't we'll burn for all eternity was what I said was God"s fault.
That's another reason to not join Buddhism. If you're going to leave a religion, might as well move onto one that's unified.
As far as your sin/punishment question, I don't think you're going to get a satisfactory answer. A lot of religions have inclusion clauses. If you follow the letter of the religion, you get rewarded. If you fail to believe, you're punished. This serves to benefit the religion by spreading its message through fear.
One interesting thing to note is that hell, as it's perceived by most Christians, wasn't even in the Old Testament. The Jewish people believe(d?) that everyone went to the same place when they died. People who were Jewish got to be closer to God, and people who weren't were separate from God. Other believed that only the souls of the Jewish people survived death. Still others believed that the soul died with the body. But the main thing to note is that there was no real 'punisment' (other than feeling shame) for not believing as they did. It's not until the later Jewish and New Testament that Hell as is familiar today was added. Wikipedia has a good synopsis of the history of the Christian hell. <- click that link.
I just have to point out that Christianity has the same type of thing. Catholic and Protestant. Both have different sects within them. And I never knew that hell is not in the old testament. Thank you for sharing that, it actually makes a lot more sense.
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