RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants"

RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (Full Version)

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dbark -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/30/2008 8:12:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TomTurn quote: I'm just asking where you get your moral right to say no to any of them. To protect the lifeboat quote: What makes some people eligible and others not? (I'm talking about honest people, not criminals). Is based on what the lifeboat needs. The lifeboat cannot support millions and millions coming in legally and illegally who have little education and skills. If you want the life boat to stay afloat you have to draw a line on how many can get in it and the needs of the lifeboat quote: What made your family acceptable to immigrate to America and other families not acceptable? My ancestors came in the great wave (when many were sent back) and the big differences in then and now, they were not coming in and then grabbing a tax payer demanding the tax payer take care of them. The great wave was when the U.S had a much lower population in proportion to the amount of immigrants coming in. That is a quick two. If you want to use the metaphor of a lifeboat, fine, but I'll still ask where you get the moral right to sit in the lifeboat and watch others drown. Isn't it customary for men to allow women and children to get in the boat in our place? As a Christian, I don't see a lot of biblical teaching that shows me that I should protect my own interests over those of the needy. We are not called to look after ourselves above the needs of others, or even to practice our own personal righteousness as above the need to serve the needs of others. Matthew 23 "23Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel." Jesus said the more important matter of the law is putting the needs of others first. Justice, mercy, and faithfulness refers to our obligation to show Christ's love to others showing them justice (fairness?), mercy (showing compassion?), and faithfulness. Don't those things sound like they might have something to do with this issue? Do you think Jesus would agree with you in saying that Mexicans should stay and be poor in Mexico because we need to protect our wealth? I doubt it.

TomTurn -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 1:04:57 AM)
quote: As a Christian, I don't see a lot of biblical teaching that shows me that I should protect my own interests over those of the needy. There are well over 2,000,000,000 poor and needy in the world who want to get in the boat. It will not fit all, that is just a fact. Try and put them all in and you kill everyone in and out of the boat. quote: Isn't it customary for men to allow women and children to get in the boat in our place? You are welcome to set the example and get out at any time and give your space to one of the over 2,000,000,000 mentioned above. We all await your decision. .

dbark -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 2:40:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TomTurn quote: As a Christian, I don't see a lot of biblical teaching that shows me that I should protect my own interests over those of the needy. There are well over 2,000,000,000 poor and needy in the world who want to get in the boat. It will not fit all, that is just a fact. Try and put them all in and you kill everyone in and out of the boat. quote: Isn't it customary for men to allow women and children to get in the boat in our place? You are welcome to set the example and get out at any time and give your space to one of the over 2,000,000,000 mentioned above. We all await your decision. . That's your argument then? That trying to help the needy will kill us all? 2 billion people have not applied for entry into the US, that's absurd, but beside the point. My question is where, as a Christian, do you get your justification for your me first position? Do you believe that Christ's many, many teachings on caring for the needy line up with that attitude? Your glib response to me is that I should set the example and leave, but my assertion is not that you or I need to leave the country, but to share our wealth. Sharing means giving up some of what you have. Will you be as rich as you are now? No, but someone else will at least get a chance at what you've had all your life. I'm not talking about giving away everything, and I'm reasonably sure you know that's not what I mean - what upsets me is the all too prevalent attitude of the rich and privileged (which includes almost all Americans) that they are willing to give up NOTHING to help others get the same chances they've been given. It's selfish and anti-everything Jesus told us about loving each other.

mapachito13 -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 4:41:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TomTurn You are welcome to set the example and get out at any time and give your space to one of the over 2,000,000,000 mentioned above. We all await your decision. This quote shows the ultra-conservative mind set at its worst. Agree with me or you are un-American, therefore, you should leave. I guess we took this land by force so it's no wonder that people want to protect their own selfish interests by force. But you know what Jesus said about those who live by the sword.... Matthew 26:52 BTW, How come no one who takes the anti-immigrant position can back up their position with the Bible? And then, they act like a defense lawyer looking for a loophole in the law when it comes to Leviticus 19:33-34 when it is written in very plain language? I guess the Bible must bow before American immigration law!!![:'(][:'(][:'(]

TomTurn -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 8:52:42 AM)
quote: That's your argument then? That trying to help the needy will kill us all? We help the needy and I know of no one who does not want to help the needy but we cannot help all the needy, that is a fact, We cannot allow every "needy" person into the U.S., that is a fact. We have to help assure that life improves for people where they are. Thaose are facts and facts trump feelings on this. quote: My question is where, as a Christian, do you get your justification for your me first position? Do you believe that Christ's many, many teachings on caring for the needy line up with that attitude? I consider the U.S. a gift from God to the world. I think it is my duty to protect that gift so that it may continue to help others as it has. quote: Your glib response to me is that I should set the example and leave, but my assertion is not that you or I need to leave the country, but to share our wealth. We do share our wealth but wealth has a limit and God gives us instructions in Scripture to be wise stewards with what he has give. quote: Sharing means giving up some of what you have. Will you be as rich as you are now? No, but someone else will at least get a chance at what you've had all your life. Who does not want to give? Everyone I know loves to give. The question in this seems to be when it comes to alowing the poor and uneducated into the U.S, how many is enough? I want a limit and I want it controlled. quote: what upsets me is the all too prevalent attitude of the rich and privileged (which includes almost all Americans) that they are willing to give up NOTHING to help others get the same chances they've been given . Show me who? Who does not want to help others? Are we allowed to question when you want to say what we are going to give? That is what the representative questioned on this in allowing workers to enter. What is the proof of need? How will we know when it has been reached and how will we assure they will depart? He seems to think there is not a proven need for 5,000 more. Know it is shocking but he represents the citizens of his juridiction as he is supposed to. quote: It's selfish and anti-everything Jesus told us about loving each other. It has been my experience as soon as someone uses the statement anti-_____, it shows a lot about their narrow focus.

TomTurn -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 9:05:18 AM)
quote: This quote shows the ultra-conservative mind set at its worst. Agree with me or you are un-American, therefore, you should leave. History on this site shows you let your bias add a lot to what you read. It was posed to me "Isn't it customary for men to allow women and children to get in the boat in our place?' I responded with if that is what you think is supposed to be done, set the example. Seems fairly clear and an honest response quote: I guess we took this land by force so it's no wonder that people want to protect their own selfish interests by force. But you know what Jesus said about those who live by the sword.... Matthew 26:52 BTW, How come no one who takes the anti-immigrant position can back up their position with the Bible? And then, they act like a defense lawyer looking for a loophole in the law when it comes to Leviticus 19:33-34 when it is written in very plain language? See above about using the term "anti-____" Could post many Scriptures about obeying the law and various but Jesus is our savior and not my political tool. History has shown that using Scripture/Jesus is a favorite of the socialist/marxist movement. Then once what is wanted is gained, Jesus and Scripture go in the trash bin since the cannot co-exist with each other.

mapachito13 -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 10:31:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TomTurn I responded with if that is what you think is supposed to be done, set the example. Seems fairly clear and an honest response Could post many Scriptures about obeying the law and various but Jesus is our savior and not my political tool. History has shown that using Scripture/Jesus is a favorite of the socialist/marxist movement. Then once what is wanted is gained, Jesus and Scripture go in the trash bin since the cannot co-exist with each other. Then please do it! Refute this brother gone astray with the word of God! Doesn't the Word of God give us guidance in the political realm? How many people have voted for a particular candidate because of their religious convictions that they receive from the Word? Using your logic, let's disband all PAC's that are pro-life because too many of them use Scripture in the political realm. Repealing a law requires politics. Maybe they can "set the example." BTW, Is sharing "each according to his need" (Acts 2:45) communistic? Or merely charitable? Jesus is the God of all nations and all peoples are our brothers that we are commanded to love. Jesus transcends all borders. That was hard for the initial Jewish Christians to swallow. They wanted everyone to be circumcised, remember? God shows no partiality and we are cautioned against favoritism so why do we insist on dehumanizing people with calling them illegal and treating them like they are sub-human or an entity. And since you're still smarting from my previous anti- label. I will apologize, again. How about I say pro-strict immigration policy that will severely limit the amount of immigrants in this country so we don't tip our lifeboat. We don't see eye to eye on this issue and I doubt we ever will. But blessings upon you and you family. BTW, should I get all hot and bothered by your inference that I am a Marxist?[:D] If it means I like the Marx Brothers movies then I surely am one!

TomTurn -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 11:11:02 AM)
quote: Then please do it! Refute this brother gone astray with the word of God! Not going to play the Scripture game, especially to refute something taken out of context. You work out your own understanding. quote: Doesn't the Word of God give us guidance in the political realm? In context (yours are not in my opinion). Which is the game of the modern liberal/socialist/marxist/communist (just picking words and statements and plugging them in wherever to reach a goal regardless of what they truly mean). I would say try not to fall into it. quote: How many people have voted for a particular candidate because of their religious convictions that they receive from the Word? Using your logic, let's disband all PAC's that are pro-life because too many of them use Scripture in the political realm. Repealing a law requires politics. Maybe they can "set the example." Better yet, lets go all the way and apply Old Testament law. Or we can keep things in context. quote: BTW, Is sharing "each according to his need" (Acts 2:45) communistic? Or merely charitable? Context (any one can quote scripture, takes a bit more to study) quote: Jesus is the God of all nations and all peoples are our brothers that we are commanded to love. Jesus transcends all borders. That was hard for the initial Jewish Christians to swallow. They wanted everyone to be circumcised, remember? So let's drop all borders and attempt to make everyone see that Jesus is the God of all Nations, that He trancends all borders. Or lets keep borders, enforce the law and require people to obey the law. In your study of the Word which one is spoke of most as the thing to do regarding the world before Jesus returns? quote: God shows no partiality and we are cautioned against favoritism so why do we insist on dehumanizing people with calling them illegal and treating them like they are sub-human or an entity. See my comment elsewhere that modern liberalism/socialism/marxism/communisum are masters at attempting to change words or their meaning in an attempt to reach a goal. And in the context of a Christan attempting to follow or falling into the same, what countries have we seen that become modern liberal/socialist/marxist/communist in which the Church becomes stronger and God and Faith more real to all? quote: And since you're still smarting from my previous anti- label. I will apologize, again. Am not smarting over anything, just stating a fact that an attempt to enter into any discussion the term "anti-_____" , is an attempt to silence without fact. A narrow focus. And no aopolgy needed. quote: How about I say pro-strict immigration policy that will severely limit the amount of immigrants in this country so we don't tip our lifeboat. Have repeated over and over that I am all for immigration, it makes us stronger (look at the nation it built), but only when controlled. Wide open borders, little to no control does not help anyone in the long run. Which goes to what this representative was questioing. What is proof of need? How will it be controlled? And his statement to that was we seem to have plenty of illiterate (poorly educated) peasants (farm workers). And as to peoples outrage at those terms, he cannot be responsible for their lack of understanding the english language. But then the modern liberal/socialist/marxist/communist are masters at attempting to change words and/or their meaning. quote: We don't see eye to eye on this issue and I doubt we ever will. But blessings upon you and you family. Think we actually agree on more than you think but I also think you have a built in bias to see what you want to see and not what is there. quote: BTW, should I get all hot and bothered by your inference that I am a Marxist? If it means I like the Marx Brothers movies then I surely am one! Please do not think I am calling you such. I do point out the ideals of the modern liberal/socialist/marxist/communist and see where we are on them and also judge statements based on those ideals.

mapachito13 -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 12:51:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TomTurn Not going to play the Scripture game, especially to refute something taken out of context. You work out your own understanding. I did and I know you did also. They seem to be different understandings though. quote: In context (yours are not in my opinion). Which is the game of the modern liberal/socialist/marxist/communist (just picking words and statements and plugging them in wherever to reach a goal regardless of what they truly mean). I would say try not to fall into it. So what person could tell me what they truly mean? I am asking from the perspective of the Ethiopian Eunuch. Is it a person? A particular church? quote: Better yet, lets go all the way and apply Old Testament law. Like Leviticus 19:33-34? [:@] Sorry, couldn't resist. quote: Context (any one can quote scripture, takes a bit more to study) It so easy to be dismissive of a Scripture quote that refutes a person's held position with this word. It's harder still to show why. quote: In your study of the Word which one is spoke of most as the thing to do regarding the world before Jesus returns? Would that be Matthew 25:31-46. Or is that "out of context"?[;)] quote: Have repeated over and over that I am all for immigration, it makes us stronger (look at the nation it built), but only when controlled. I guess the question is how many people should be let in every year. Experience has shown us that the current quotas are insufficient to keep up with the actual demand. It would be fiscally prudent, with the current method of taxation that is in place, to get these people into the system ASAP. This will not be solved unless we change over to a consumption tax, as opposed to an income tax or abolish currency so big brother (the gov't) could track where all the money goes to. This would abolish the concept of paying someone under the table to avoid detection. But then, this would require us to be more under gov't scrutiny which would IMO be worse than my gardener employing illegal immigrants. BTW, thanks for the spirited debate. I guess these boards would be boring if we all parrotted the same line. I hope that I have not been too personally critical. I know we just have different views on certain areas of this subject that's all.

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 1:17:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 BTW, it's amazing how these "law and order" people who keep saying how these people are criminals akin to murderers and rapists are so willing to ignore the law when it conflicts with God's law or His Word. How about His Words on how we are to treat foreigners. "The stranger who lives as a foreigner with you shall be to you as the native-born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you lived as foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh your God." Lev. 19:34 How does the treatment of foreigners in one's land equate to open borders? Or having a secure and controlled borders being an issue with God, who set borders Himself... As well... Are you contending that Leviticus 19:34 allows a person to cross the border illegally? What law of God's outlaws a nation from having secure established borders? Both concepts are very biblical... quote: "For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich to all who call on him." Rom. 10:12 Again... You are mixing the eternal with the temporal... God raises up nations, hence He raises up different people, cultures with clear and distinct differences... The fact that the body of Christ extends across borders doesn't mean that borders are not valid... You need to discern what is eternal and what is temporal... God didn't ordain ONE civil government, but many and for anyone to argue that borders don't serve a purpose in regards to keeping order doesn't understand the concept to start with... John

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 1:23:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 ]This quote shows the ultra-conservative mind set at its worst. Agree with me or you are un-American, therefore, you should leave. I guess we took this land by force so it's no wonder that people want to protect their own selfish interests by force. But you know what Jesus said about those who live by the sword.... Matthew 26:52 It's not the use of the sword, but who you place your trust in when using it... quote: BTW, How come no one who takes the anti-immigrant position can back up their position with the Bible? And then, they act like a defense lawyer looking for a loophole in the law when it comes to Leviticus 19:33-34 when it is written in very plain language? You had no answers for what I posted in the Racial thread regarding this issue... quote: I guess the Bible must bow before American immigration law!!! Nope, the onus is on you to show that immigration laws are against God's law... And a verse about the treatment of foreigner in one's land doesn't come close to sufficing... John

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 1:26:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dbark what upsets me is the all too prevalent attitude of the rich and privileged (which includes almost all Americans) that they are willing to give up NOTHING to help others get the same chances they've been given. I am rich and privileged? This is news to me... Can I call my boss and tell him? What dolt I am... I am rich and privileged and I have been working myself to the bone the last 25 years... John

GroupW -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 1:31:01 PM)
If you compare the average American to the average person including those in Asia, Africa, etc, then yes the average American is rich and quite privileged. It just doesn't feel like it quite often.

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 2:05:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GroupW If you compare the average American to the average person including those in Asia, Africa, etc, then yes the average American is rich and quite privileged. It just doesn't feel like it quite often. And I am sure there are people that make the average person in Asia, Africa, etc "appear" to be rich and quite privileged... John

mapachito13 -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 2:06:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe Nope, the onus is on you to show that immigration laws are against God's law... And a verse about the treatment of foreigner in one's land doesn't come close to sufficing... John Then show me where it says how to treat illegal immigrants. Why be so quick to dismiss the plain wording of Lev. 19:33-34 with a dismissive "out of context". The Bible doesn't differentiate as to the legal status of a foreigner. Unless, you have one that does. As far as immigration policy, in it's current form, I feel it's unjust and dehumanizing. Can it exist, yes, but it would need a massive overhaul and a new mindset behind the system.

dbark -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 2:33:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: dbark what upsets me is the all too prevalent attitude of the rich and privileged (which includes almost all Americans) that they are willing to give up NOTHING to help others get the same chances they've been given. I am rich and privileged? This is news to me... Can I call my boss and tell him? What dolt I am... I am rich and privileged and I have been working myself to the bone the last 25 years... John Yes, you certainly are. You are richer than 98% of all the people in the world. You have food, you have clean water, you have shelter - you are so rich, you don't even consider those things as part of what makes you rich. The reason you don't feel like you are rich is because you are surrounded by wealth. If you compare yourself to your next door neighbor, you may not feel rich, if you realize that the fact that you have clean, running water right away makes you richer than 2/3 of the population of the planet, you might get a new perspective. You don't simply "appear" rich, you are obscenely wealthy just the same as me. Roughly half the world's population (about 3 billion people) live on less than $2 US/day. Knowing that is only a very small part of the battle. Giving a **** is the next step, hopefully followed closely by action.

TomTurn -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 3:08:09 PM)
quote: Like Leviticus 19:33-34? "If a man does not work he does not eat" - If we take that as it reads, it reads that no mattter which man, no matter why does not work, he does not eat. But children and women can. If we take it in the context, then we see it's meaning and can apply it Context is everything and I do not have the desire to teach you or any other what it is or how to apply it.

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 3:08:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 Then show me where it says how to treat illegal immigrants. The bible says not to be partial in judgment... I believe the fact that those who are caught breaking the law by illegally entering the country are generally simply returned to their own country it seems to be pretty mild treatment. They are fed, and if medical attention is needed, they receive treatment, so what more could be ask by a person who is willfully breaking the law? I beleive the above more go above what is called for in Lev. 19:33-34... quote: Why be so quick to dismiss the plain wording of Lev. 19:33-34 with a dismissive "out of context". Quick? That's not going to fly here... I have made many a post on this subject... The verse speaks to the treatment of people residing in another's country... Given the bible's concept of law and order it must be assumed the verse is speaking of those folks didn't break laws and or country breaking laws in the land they currently residing in... Until you can produce something biblical that strikes down the immigration laws of the United States you have nothing. The laws regarding immigration are there in respect to order. There is a process in place regarding immigration and those people who circumvent the law and process are not following the law. quote: The Bible doesn't differentiate as to the legal status of a foreigner. Unless, you have one that does. The biblie is very clear on the concept of law and order, and you have not shown that it's unlawful for a nation to control its borders for the sake of order, which the VERY reason God ordained civil governments... quote: As far as immigration policy, in it's current form, I feel it's unjust and dehumanizing. Can it exist, yes, but it would need a massive overhaul and a new mindset behind the system. As I stated on another thread to you about this... By all means if you feel it needs to be fixed, have at it, but like I said prior that doesn't mean the concept of controlling one's border is ungodly, and you haven't shown otherwise... John

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 3:14:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dbark quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: dbark what upsets me is the all too prevalent attitude of the rich and privileged (which includes almost all Americans) that they are willing to give up NOTHING to help others get the same chances they've been given. I am rich and privileged? This is news to me... Can I call my boss and tell him? What dolt I am... I am rich and privileged and I have been working myself to the bone the last 25 years... John Yes, you certainly are. You are richer than 98% of all the people in the world. You have food, you have clean water, you have shelter - you are so rich, you don't even consider those things as part of what makes you rich. The reason you don't feel like you are rich is because you are surrounded by wealth. If you compare yourself to your next door neighbor, you may not feel rich, if you realize that the fact that you have clean, running water right away makes you richer than 2/3 of the population of the planet, you might get a new perspective. You don't simply "appear" rich, you are obscenely wealthy just the same as me. Roughly half the world's population (about 3 billion people) live on less than $2 US/day. Knowing that is only a very small part of the battle. Giving a **** is the next step, hopefully followed closely by action. I am blessed... To use terms like "rich and privileged" implies things... John

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 3:16:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TomTurn Context is everything and I do not have the desire to teach you or any other what it is or how to apply it. To be fair, if you are not willing to show and or teach on what grounds do you admonish those who you say don't understand? John

dbark -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 3:18:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: dbark quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: dbark what upsets me is the all too prevalent attitude of the rich and privileged (which includes almost all Americans) that they are willing to give up NOTHING to help others get the same chances they've been given. I am rich and privileged? This is news to me... Can I call my boss and tell him? What dolt I am... I am rich and privileged and I have been working myself to the bone the last 25 years... John Yes, you certainly are. You are richer than 98% of all the people in the world. You have food, you have clean water, you have shelter - you are so rich, you don't even consider those things as part of what makes you rich. The reason you don't feel like you are rich is because you are surrounded by wealth. If you compare yourself to your next door neighbor, you may not feel rich, if you realize that the fact that you have clean, running water right away makes you richer than 2/3 of the population of the planet, you might get a new perspective. You don't simply "appear" rich, you are obscenely wealthy just the same as me. Roughly half the world's population (about 3 billion people) live on less than $2 US/day. Knowing that is only a very small part of the battle. Giving a **** is the next step, hopefully followed closely by action. I am blessed... To use terms like "rich and privileged" implies things... John What does it "imply" that isn't true? As an American, you are rich and you have privileges that many, many other people do not have. By changing the wording to "blessed" you seem to be implying that God has chosen you to lavish wealth onto while cursing the vast majority of the world to poverty and suffering. That attitude is one that has doomed the human race to repeat the cycle of poverty and inequity for countless generations. It's time to start thinking of people in this world as simply people. Not Americans. Not Mexicans. Let's stop perpetuating labels and divisions and start loving and caring about each other ahead of ourselves.

JimboFletch -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 3:20:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dbark Yes, you certainly are. You are richer than 98% of all the people in the world. You have food, you have clean water, you have shelter - you are so rich, you don't even consider those things as part of what makes you rich. The reason you don't feel like you are rich is because you are surrounded by wealth. If you compare yourself to your next door neighbor, you may not feel rich, if you realize that the fact that you have clean, running water right away makes you richer than 2/3 of the population of the planet, you might get a new perspective. You don't simply "appear" rich, you are obscenely wealthy just the same as me. Roughly half the world's population (about 3 billion people) live on less than $2 US/day. Knowing that is only a very small part of the battle. Giving a **** is the next step, hopefully followed closely by action. I agree. I saw that first-hand during the 70s when I was in the Navy and visited places like the Domincan Republic and Brazil, where I saw families living in cardboard boxes and drinking& bathing in the run-off water from the city. One has to have lived a very sheltered life in the US to think they are less than wealthy in comparison to much of the rest of the world.

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 3:40:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dbark What does it "imply" that isn't true? As an American, you are rich and you have privileges that many, many other people do not have. It implies in many circles negative concepts... quote: By changing the wording to "blessed" you seem to be implying that God has chosen you to lavish wealth onto while cursing the vast majority of the world to poverty and suffering. So, I should believe that I am the source of the riches and privilege? The roof over my head is my doing, not God's? My job... God didn't bless me with talents, I made myself into somethign of value and I am owed what comes to me? quote: That attitude is one that has doomed the human race to repeat the cycle of poverty and inequity for countless generations. Believing that one is blessed by God is the attitude that has doomed the human race to repeat the cycle of poverty and inequity for countless generations? quote: It's time to start thinking of people in this world as simply people. Not Americans. Not Mexicans. Let's stop perpetuating labels and divisions and start loving and caring about each other ahead of ourselves. Given that I am not blessed, but that I earned my way I guess the best thing I can say to those who are not "rich and privileged" is, get to work...[8\|] John

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 3:42:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch I agree. I saw that first-hand during the 70s when I was in the Navy and visited places like the Domincan Republic and Brazil, where I saw families living in cardboard boxes and drinking& bathing in the run-off water from the city. One has to have lived a very sheltered life in the US to think they are less than wealthy in comparison to much of the rest of the world. Do you feel blessed? John

JimboFletch -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (5/1/2008 3:50:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch I agree. I saw that first-hand during the 70s when I was in the Navy and visited places like the Domincan Republic and Brazil, where I saw families living in cardboard boxes and drinking& bathing in the run-off water from the city. One has to have lived a very sheltered life in the US to think they are less than wealthy in comparison to much of the rest of the world. Do you feel blessed? John Absolutely. Those people did the best they could with what they had. I did too. The results showed me that it's not just my efforts but God's grace that makes the difference. I had nothing to do with being born here, to my parents, and with my opportunities.

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