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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 3:57:42 PM
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elastic
Posts: 2809
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From: NYC
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quote:
So a tube of chap stick worth $1.69 is the same as a $20,000 purse?
i really can't explain this to you if you are going to ignore it because it doesn't 'pertain' to you.
do you need a tube of chapstick? why? that's $1.69 that could go to the poor. see how ridiculous it gets? one person's "poor" is another person's "rich"
you keep saying that you stick up for the "very poor". well, what defines what is poor, and what is very poor? you? do you decide who is poor enough to defend? who is rich enough to persecute?
that is the point i am trying to make.
_____________________________
"You are so right elastic" ~Qtman
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 4:16:06 PM
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elastic
Posts: 2809
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From: NYC
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most of the time, you are posting verses out of context and using them to try to condemn the rich.
and on chapstick, i would argue that you do not *need* it just because it is cold. it is a luxury to be able to buy something to keep your lips from chapping. not everyone can afford chapstick and they must suffer the fate of peeling, chapped lips. a person who has $2.00 and lives in MN and can't afford it can do without it so they can have food.
that is the point.
_____________________________
"You are so right elastic" ~Qtman
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 4:21:41 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4854
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quote:
for example, do you wear earrings? own a watch that you purchased? own a car that you purchased? buy chap stick? own a bottle of lotion or hair products? any of this could be construed as something that 'rich' people do because to some folks, these are luxury items. that was my point.
I think we all could look at our own lives and examine them, and see if perhaps there are areas where we could sacrifice a bit more and be more generous. Materialism can sneak up on us and we might not even notice.
A $20,000 purse is an example of extreme materialism. We shouldn't try to justify that purchase in order to justify our smaller examples of insidious materalism, rather we should let an extreme example cause us to check and see if we might possibly be doing the same thing on a lesser scale.
What makes it extreme materialism vs. normal every day materialism is the extra three zeros on the end of what would otherwise be a normally priced purse. Buying a $20,000 purse is like buying a $10,000 pair of earrings, a 50,000 watch, a $20,000,000 car, a $1,690 tube of chapstick, a $1,000 bottle of shampoo, or a $5,000 bottle of lotion.
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<--Me at age fourteen
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 4:23:24 PM
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stellaluna
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Does anyone know where the eight-purse lady got her handbags? Can we say for sure that she bought them? What if they were on sale? What if she got all eight for $20,000? What if she made eight $100,000 donations and handbags were the thank you gift?
The point is, we cannot judge her because we don't know the circumstances of her heart or her bank account.
I personally think spending $20,000 on a handbag is outrageous. I don't, however, think spending $20,000 on a computer, peripherals, software, etc. is outrageous. The handbag woman might think I'm out of my mind.
She doesn't need a handbag at all; she can use a plastic bag. I don't need a bunch of electronics; I can use pencil and paper and hum to myself.
We are all materialistic to some extent.
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CW Underground
"Everything Stellaluna said (I do agree with her, honest)." -- miasma
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 4:24:54 PM
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elastic
Posts: 2809
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From: NYC
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quote:
What makes it extreme materialism vs. normal every day materialism is the extra three zeros on the end of what would otherwise be a normally priced purse. Buying a $20,000 purse is like buying a $10,000 pair of earrings, a 50,000 watch, a $20,000,000 car, a $1,690 tube of chapstick, a $1,000 bottle of shampoo, or a $5,000 bottle of lotion.
again, that's by *your* definition.
to me, spending more than $5.00 on a purse is shameful. i'd rather use a plastic bag. you can't say one amount is sin, and another amount is ok.
what is the acceptable price to spend on a purse? $20.00? $30.00? $150.00?
_____________________________
"You are so right elastic" ~Qtman
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 4:42:40 PM
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CoeurdeLeon
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quote:
I realize the definition of "normal" is different for different people, but normal people shop at Walmart.
See, I look at this differently. I see buying things at Walmart that'll have to be repeatedly (and probably too soon) replaced as poor stewardship.
So, are we the Socialist Stewardship Police now? I like to buy hardback books instead of paperback. Quite a bit more expensive not to mention the fact that I could borrow the books from the library and not pay anything. I have well into the tens of thousands of $$$ in books in my home. Am I a bad steward? Can you (generic you) make that call without knowing any more about me than what I just told you?
What's the limit? Who sets the standard for what's excessive and what's reasonable. My reasonable is going to be somebody's excess. Who will we put in charge of deciding?
_____________________________
When I have a little money I buy Books.
If any left over I buy food and clothes.
Erasmus
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 4:51:34 PM
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Shrommer
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I think $20,000 for a purse is excessive no matter how much money you earn. Then I think of the trickle-down theory. Maybe this $20,000 goes to help 10 employees earn $60,000 per year instead of minimum wage jobs. Could buying this purse be helping those ten families make a decent living?
I try not to be judgmental. Judas objected about the expensive perfume: "Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages." Jesus replied, "Leave her alone ... " (John 12)
Presenting a purse as if it were your "baby" is scandalous to me, but I even mind it when people talk that way about their pets. I think the concern is legitimate about who Christians are and where are priorities are. Some people should devote more time and energy to other things. But, Is this a whole church congregation, or just some who are young in the faith, or perhaps churchgoers who are not even born again?
It is sinful of us to get offended, or at least for us to be easily offended. And we shouldn't be gossiping about the faults of others either.
There are a lot of great things we can do with our money, but if the giving is out of pride and not love, it profits the giver nothing. In other words, if someone gave $20,000 to help starving orphans (humans) and sent a blog about their "babies" and how much they give to help them, that could be just as empty of an act as buying the purse. Empty, that is, for the giver. The difference is that the $20,000 might mean something more to the recipients.
I know Joyce Meier has some good testimonies of rich things she's bought, and then the Lord tells her to give those things away to people and it is a real step of faith to bless others, but she does it. If you walk around with a $20,000 purse and find a needy person to give it to, they could accept the gift, sell it, and have for their needs. It is a lot safer to do things that way than to carry $20,000 cash in your purse to give away to someone.
Anyway, this whole topic is really way out of my situation. I don't think anybody in my county of Pennsylvania has a $20,000 purse, and I'm glad. My house was worth $28,000 when I bought it 7 years ago. I wish someone would pay off our mortgage instead of buying a purse - but it is not for me to covet or envy. My role is to be content and rejoice with others.
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 4:54:08 PM
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Consecrated2God
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Strange, I shop at Walmart all the time and there's very few things there that I've found to be poor quality. Still, I agree that it is good stewardship to make the best use of your money by buying something of better quality and spending a little more. Sometimes we might spend twice as much on something to get a good one. But three extra zeros on the end? I can't think of anything that you would need to tack on three extra zeros to get something of good quality so you wouldn't have to replace it. So you don't want to buy $10 jeans at Walmart. I doubt you'd spend $10,000 on a pair of jeans. We bought a bookcase there that was of terrible quality. I think it was $40. Maybe $400 would be a good price for a quality bookcase. One extra zero. But is there any reason anyone would spend $40,000 on a bookcase? How about a $30,000 haircut? Or a $3,000 ice cream cone? Is anything, no matter how nice, really worth that much?
I'll say it again: A $20,000 purse is an example of extreme materialism. We shouldn't try to justify that purchase in order to justify our smaller examples of insidious materalism, rather we should let an extreme example cause us to check and see if we might possibly be doing the same thing on a lesser scale. And yes--normal, everyday materialism can happen at Walmart, and we could all probably examine our own lives and find evidences of it.
_____________________________
<--Me at age fourteen
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 4:56:27 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1163
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
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quote:
I think we all could look at our own lives and examine them, and see if perhaps there are areas where we could sacrifice a bit more and be more generous. Materialism can sneak up on us and we might not even notice.
A $20,000 purse is an example of extreme materialism. We shouldn't try to justify that purchase in order to justify our smaller examples of insidious materalism, rather we should let an extreme example cause us to check and see if we might possibly be doing the same thing on a lesser scale.
I agree. Materalism; ma·te·ri·al·ism 1. preoccupation with or emphasis on material objects, comforts, and considerations, with a disinterest in or rejection of spiritual, intellectual, or cultural values.
I reject the materalism in this country because it is against my Spiritual Values.
Am I perfect, naw.................just trying to meet the ONE who is.
_____________________________
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 4:59:42 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4854
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From: Jesus Land
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quote:
I try not to be judgmental. Judas objected about the expensive perfume: "Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages." Jesus replied, "Leave her alone ... " (John 12)
Don't cut it off in the middle of the verse. He wasn't saying not to judge her materialism. It was a lavish gift for Jesus. She poured it out on Him, for His burial. Also, Judas didn't want to feed the poor. He was stealing from the money bag.
quote:
What's the limit? Who sets the standard for what's excessive and what's reasonable. My reasonable is going to be somebody's excess. Who will we put in charge of deciding?
We can only answer to God. He's the one that will reward us according to our works, or the lack thereof. We need to examine our own hearts and actions and remember that it all belongs to Him.
_____________________________
<--Me at age fourteen
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 5:01:11 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 3641
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From: The higher lowcountry
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The stewardship issue is really about so much, isn't it?
I mean, do I spend $20.00 on a purse at Wal-Mart only to have the shoddy craftsmanship fall apart in 2 months and resort to buying another purse for $15.00 at Wal-Mart only to have it last less than 6 months and the cycle continues.
Or...do I spend $50.00 on a purse that is basic enough and of a quality that will not fall apart and not need to be replaced for several years.
Do I spend a ton of money in the long run on a bunch of disposable junky stuff or buy one or two quality items that will last.
What's the best stewardship? I mean if all my money is God's and I'm merely the manager of it, then how do I best steward what I have been given?
Like I said earlier...no one's saying that we should NOT defend the poor, but we don't do that at the expense of an attitude towards what we perceive as rich.
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 5:02:24 PM
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CoeurdeLeon
Posts: 6467
Joined: 9/4/2005
From: Inside my head
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quote:
We can only answer to God. He's the one that will reward us according to our works, or the lack thereof. We need to examine our own hearts and actions and remember that it all belongs to Him.
Right. EXACTLY right. So who are we to say what anyone else's heart is like? We might THINK we know by what we see but ONLY God knows the heart.
_____________________________
When I have a little money I buy Books.
If any left over I buy food and clothes.
Erasmus
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 5:02:51 PM
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Shrommer
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Wow! I just ran across the post that includes I Timothy 2:9-10 about women not adorning themselves with costly array, "expensive clothes" in the NIV, but the word "array" includes accessories and not just clothing the way I understand it. That pretty much sums up that whole issue.
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