RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (Full Version)

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OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/2/2008 11:46:22 PM)

I haven't read the whole thread, but I believe beliefs like this are fruits of the lie that the Song of Solomon is about a God/man relationship. IT IS NOT. It is about a husband/wife relationship, and how to have one, and how to have a good one, and to make it clear that a physical relationship WITHIN marriage is to be celebrated and enjoyed. Not all of scripture is about God and salvation. That is the most important part, of course, but God does give us some of the Bible to show us how to live our lives here on earth. For example, the Bible tells us about storing up food in summer for the winter, and that's not a salvation issue, it's a common sense issue.




SD456 -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/3/2008 10:27:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bride48

While at times I certainly did make marriage an idol, I can assure you I didn't misunderstand the teaching. Oh, I wish I could type faster, so I could explain it all, but please trust me. It was one woman in partcular...who happened to be the head of the women's ministry. She is divorced, and claims Jesus is her Husband. A wonderful Christian man proposed to her once (the marriage would have allowed her to be a missionary in India, where she had always dreamed of ministering), but she refused him because Jesus was her Husband.

Throughout my engagement, she always admonished me that my true Bridegroom was Jesus. Only once did she offer valuable marriage advice. The rest of the time she talked about the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Those who knew me better knew that, at that point in my life, I no longer idolized marriage. I think, subconsciously, she despised earthly marriage, and wanted me to remain single. She's hyper-spiritual, and wants to impose her hyper-spirituality on other women.


All of us can get a bit off somewhere sometimes. It sounds like she had more the mindset that a nun would have, though without being Catholic. In a spiritual sense Christ IS there husband or their husbandman. I can understand that. But perhaps she was offering help the only way that she knew how, which doesn't sound like it was very helpful. She was being a bit pushy in trying to get you to 'understand' things the way she understands them. And perhaps she has the gift of celibacy which made it easy or easier for her to turn down that marriage and truly has a calling to be single.




SD456 -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/3/2008 10:30:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels

I haven't read the whole thread, but I believe beliefs like this are fruits of the lie that the Song of Solomon is about a God/man relationship. IT IS NOT. It is about a husband/wife relationship, and how to have one, and how to have a good one, and to make it clear that a physical relationship WITHIN marriage is to be celebrated and enjoyed. Not all of scripture is about God and salvation. That is the most important part, of course, but God does give us some of the Bible to show us how to live our lives here on earth. For example, the Bible tells us about storing up food in summer for the winter, and that's not a salvation issue, it's a common sense issue.


I believe the Song of Solomon is an Allegory about Christ and the church. I don't believe that's a lie from the enemy. If you read from the Geneva study bible from the 1500's, christians back then believed it to be an allegory also and the Geneva Study Bible goes through the SOS line by line and explains what each part of the allegory is relating to according to our relationship with Christ.

It's quite beautiful.




OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/4/2008 12:15:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456

quote:

ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels

I haven't read the whole thread, but I believe beliefs like this are fruits of the lie that the Song of Solomon is about a God/man relationship. IT IS NOT. It is about a husband/wife relationship, and how to have one, and how to have a good one, and to make it clear that a physical relationship WITHIN marriage is to be celebrated and enjoyed. Not all of scripture is about God and salvation. That is the most important part, of course, but God does give us some of the Bible to show us how to live our lives here on earth. For example, the Bible tells us about storing up food in summer for the winter, and that's not a salvation issue, it's a common sense issue.


I believe the Song of Solomon is an Allegory about Christ and the church. I don't believe that's a lie from the enemy. If you read from the Geneva study bible from the 1500's, christians back then believed it to be an allegory also and the Geneva Study Bible goes through the SOS line by line and explains what each part of the allegory is relating to according to our relationship with Christ.

It's quite beautiful.



I disagree. People constantly try to say it is an allegory, because they are so squigged out that God could even acknowledge the sexual realm, but He does. After all, He DID create it. Yes, it's beautiful, and I can find you plenty of commentaries that don't see it as an allegory..maybe as the secondary purpose, but not the first. My pastor (who happens to be my dad) sees it the same way.




OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/4/2008 12:16:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456

quote:

ORIGINAL: bride48

While at times I certainly did make marriage an idol, I can assure you I didn't misunderstand the teaching. Oh, I wish I could type faster, so I could explain it all, but please trust me. It was one woman in partcular...who happened to be the head of the women's ministry. She is divorced, and claims Jesus is her Husband. A wonderful Christian man proposed to her once (the marriage would have allowed her to be a missionary in India, where she had always dreamed of ministering), but she refused him because Jesus was her Husband.

Throughout my engagement, she always admonished me that my true Bridegroom was Jesus. Only once did she offer valuable marriage advice. The rest of the time she talked about the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Those who knew me better knew that, at that point in my life, I no longer idolized marriage. I think, subconsciously, she despised earthly marriage, and wanted me to remain single. She's hyper-spiritual, and wants to impose her hyper-spirituality on other women.


All of us can get a bit off somewhere sometimes. It sounds like she had more the mindset that a nun would have, though without being Catholic. In a spiritual sense Christ IS there husband or their husbandman. I can understand that. But perhaps she was offering help the only way that she knew how, which doesn't sound like it was very helpful. She was being a bit pushy in trying to get you to 'understand' things the way she understands them. And perhaps she has the gift of celibacy which made it easy or easier for her to turn down that marriage and truly has a calling to be single.


Bride, I think she was envious of you.




THEREDCAPE -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/7/2008 1:02:49 PM)

We need to point out that it is not just women doing the romanticizing of Christ. Men are doing this too.




SD456 -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/8/2008 8:47:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels

quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456

quote:

ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels

I haven't read the whole thread, but I believe beliefs like this are fruits of the lie that the Song of Solomon is about a God/man relationship. IT IS NOT. It is about a husband/wife relationship, and how to have one, and how to have a good one, and to make it clear that a physical relationship WITHIN marriage is to be celebrated and enjoyed. Not all of scripture is about God and salvation. That is the most important part, of course, but God does give us some of the Bible to show us how to live our lives here on earth. For example, the Bible tells us about storing up food in summer for the winter, and that's not a salvation issue, it's a common sense issue.


I believe the Song of Solomon is an Allegory about Christ and the church. I don't believe that's a lie from the enemy. If you read from the Geneva study bible from the 1500's, christians back then believed it to be an allegory also and the Geneva Study Bible goes through the SOS line by line and explains what each part of the allegory is relating to according to our relationship with Christ.

It's quite beautiful.



I disagree. People constantly try to say it is an allegory, because they are so squigged out that God could even acknowledge the sexual realm, but He does. After all, He DID create it. Yes, it's beautiful, and I can find you plenty of commentaries that don't see it as an allegory..maybe as the secondary purpose, but not the first. My pastor (who happens to be my dad) sees it the same way.


And I can find just as many commentaries that say it is an allegory - but it also truly speaks about the relationship between two people. It is both.




SD456 -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/8/2008 8:48:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: THEREDCAPE

We need to point out that it is not just women doing the romanticizing of Christ. Men are doing this too.


Redcape, can you tell me specifically which churches and denominations are teaching this? I've not seen or heard of any that do this.

Thanks,
Stace




Kath -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/9/2008 11:29:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456

quote:

ORIGINAL: THEREDCAPE

We need to point out that it is not just women doing the romanticizing of Christ. Men are doing this too.


Redcape, can you tell me specifically which churches and denominations are teaching this? I've not seen or heard of any that do this.

Thanks,
Stace



Why would this teaching be restricted to females only? If the SoS is an allegory of Christ and the Church, are men not part of the Church, which is the Bride of Christ?

I know that sounds ridiculous but so does this whole "Jesus is my boyfriend" thing.

ETA: and what are men suppose to sing while the women are singing these "Jesus is my boyfriend" songs in church? Do they just stand there?




SD456 -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/9/2008 10:34:21 PM)

I am wondering if RedCape who created the OP is still on the thread.

RedCape what church or denomination teaches this? Your OP said that it's prevalent or sounded like it was. I'm figuring you must have been at a church somewhere that teaches it? If not, where do you get the idea that this teaching is everywhere?




Kath -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/10/2008 12:41:18 AM)

I found a few good articles about this Jesus is my boyfriend thing.

“Jesus is my boyfriend”

Why Men Hate Church

From the book Why Men Hate Going to Church
quote:

There are signals in the sanctuary. Let’s say a common working stiff named Nick visits your church. What’s the first thing Nick sees? Fresh flowers on the altar. Soft, cushiony pews with boxes of Kleenex underneath. Neutral carpet abutting lavender walls, adorned with quilted banners (or worse: Thomas Kinkade paintings). Honestly, how do we expect Nick to connect with God in a space that feels so feminine?

The signals keep coming during the service. Nick may be asked to hold hands with his neighbor. He may be asked to sing a love song to Christ, such as, “Lord, You’re Beautiful,” or “Jesus, I am so in love with You.” Someone may weep. Then Nick will have his 8-minute male attention span put to the test by a 30-minute sermon. When this torture test is finally over, Nick is invited to have a personal relationship with Jesus.

Let’s spend a moment on that last one: a personal relationship with Jesus. That phrase never appears in the Bible. Yet in the past 50 years it’s become the number one way the evangelical church describes the Christian walk. It’s turned the gospel into a puzzle for men, because most guys don’t think in terms of relationships. Let’s say Lenny approaches Nick and says, “Nick, would you like to have a personal relationship with me?” Yuck! Men don’t talk or think like this, yet we’ve wrapped the gospel in this man-repellent package.




lightshineon -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/10/2008 1:01:36 AM)

Men, have to be macho. Jonathan and David kind of makes mens faces red. Where David says he loved Jonathan more than any woman. Many men I noticed scratch their heads is unison, when this is preached seen it.[:D]




tenfour -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/12/2008 12:06:26 AM)

I'm a man, and don't normally buy worship music. I got a Rebecca St. James CD as a gift.

When I listened to it, there is a song where she is singing "Jesus, I am so in love with You." As she sings, she is breathing deeply and audibly, in a passionate sort of way that to me seems to allude to sex or making out. Hearing her sing was actually a little bit of a turn-on. Not good for worship music, in my opinion.

Sorry if this offends any RSJ fans.




CoeurdeLeon -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/15/2008 7:39:48 PM)

I came across something interesting in my reading on an unrelated subject.

Here is part of a song written by Hildegard of Bingen, a nun and abbess of the 12th century...

O sweetest lover, sweetest hugger,
help us keep our virginity.
We rise from dust ~
alas, alas, from Adam's guilt.
How very hard to hold out against
whatever tastes of the Apple;

thou, savior Christ, set us aright,
Ardently we long to follow thee.
O what a struggle it is for us, the wretched ones,
to imitate the king of angels,
spotless, innocent.
Still, we trust in thee ~
that thou wouldst find again the jewel in the filth.
Now do we call upon thee, spouse and comforter,
who redeemed us on the cross.
In thy blood we couple with thee
in betrothal, refusing a husband
and choosing, thee, Son of God.
O most beautiful figure,
O sweetest smell of longed-for delights,
always do we sigh for thee in tearful exile...

Apparently, this is an ongoing theme for unmarried women through the ages and not a modern phenomenon at all.




stellaluna -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/15/2008 9:24:54 PM)

Love Hildegard! (You know, she created her own language. She was quite intelligent.)




CoeurdeLeon -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/15/2008 9:56:29 PM)

I knew she invented an alternate alphabet but not about the language (or would that be the same thing?). A pivotal and fascinating woman in history, certainly.




gmc4Jesus -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/15/2008 11:48:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

I find that modern day worship music could often be as easily sung to one's girlfriend as to one's Savior.


I agree, but if you listen, there is a lot of the world's music that could be just as easily sung as a love song to Jesus.

Jesus is love, but not in an emotional or sexual manner. While we want to focus on how much He loves us we also want to recognize that when He needed to be, Jesus' love was more committed at directing people to God.

I would like to see more Christians focus on how much they love Him. Portraying Jesus in a romantic manner makes me think of some of the Hollywood heresies that have been around. I prefer to see Jesus as a loving Savior, but not as a romantic interest.

May God bless you as you focus on how much you love Jesus.




bluestone -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/16/2008 8:07:23 AM)

I would like to see more Christians focus on how much He loves us, and the obligation that implies.




CoeurdeLeon -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/16/2008 8:11:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluestone

I would like to see more Christians focus on how much He loves us, and the obligation that implies.

Hear! Hear! Beautifully said!




P31W -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/16/2008 8:48:28 AM)

quote:

Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner


I only see that type of stuff when I watch or read liberal scholars. Of course I don't veiw them as Christians rather as the anti-christ.




girlofmanycolors -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/22/2008 7:56:42 PM)

Ok, before I put my two cents in here, I want to say that I am a young single woman and have been in a position of longing for love and of unrequited love and so have been fair game for these false teachings. However, I have also known the real and true and passionate (spiritually), love of Christ, so although I certainly hope I'm right in saying that Jesus is my FIRST love, my only indespensible, I also know the difference by instinct in the way I love Him and the way I love the man I'm IN love with. Yet I don't feel uncomfortable using SOME of the same words for both relationships, and yes the Christian life is a relationship. The "wet sloppy kiss" line is irreverent and sacreligious; however, I find no problem with referring to Christ as the Lover of my soul since that's what he most certainly is. I have no problem with expressing deep emotion and passion in my faith. Passion doesn't always mean lust and the fact that this is the only connotation that people see here is evidence of our over-sexed society. This is one of those things where there is a fine line that is sometimes hard to see. I do believe the Song of Solomon was written both to portray a healthy marraige relationship and to portray God's love for man and vice-versa. However, it must be understood that the book is entirely metaphorical in that sense, describing a love and intimacy that is on an entirely different level than that of human love. The agape love is deeper and more intimate than any we are able to express even in the most intimate of moments. To those of you who said that God is a Father to you, that is wonderful. He is to me as well. I have an easier time, though, thinking of God as my Friend and spiritual Bridegroom (not in a sexual way at ALL), than as my Father. It doesn't take a genius to realize that this stems from the fact that my earthly father is nowhere near as close to me as Jesus is, and I have difficulty with the whole loving father image as a result, since I've never known that on a human level. About the metaphorical image of Jesus as the Bridegroom, I believe that applies to the church and to each individual saint. There is a void that only He can fill but He also made us for companions, to interact with others, so He certainly doesn't want us to avoid marraige if that's what we desire. He made us, so He KNOWS that we have human needs as well. That's ok! We can have both without conflict as they are in two totally different realms. This said, there are women, and men too for that matter, who choose to dedicate their lives to Christ and remain single and celibate. These people experience God in a unique way because He is their sole obsession and their consuming passion. That doesn't mean they have a better or deeper experience than those of us who choose differently, it just means they have a different kind. There is a vast difference in allowing God to be one's all in this way and having sexual fatasies about Jesus- which is just sick! People who bring Him down to such a level in their thinking are undermining the very qualities that make for the right kind of passionate relationship with the Savior. The deep, real experience of love between Christ and the Christian is manifested, on a far smaller scale, in the physical intimacy two people can experience in marraige. However, it blows the roof off any human relationship. So, while I would never refer to Jesus as my "boyfriend", a term that is fickle and can be applied to a myriad of people throughout a woman's life, in a purely spiritual way Christ is my Husband. He's everything though, as no human man could ever be. He's my Father, my Bridegroom, my Friend, my King, my Savior, and the list goes on and on. However, this is all on a spiritual level. There is emotion involved, though, and I don't think that it's wrong to say one is in love with Christ unless it is meant in a sexual or erotic way, although I don't choose to use that term myself. As in all things, it's about where the heart is. If you believe you are having sex with Jesus, you are deluded. If you are in the midst of a real experience with Him that trancends anything even remotely sexual and yet brings out deep feelings that are expressed in the language of love (which is the language many of us ladies speak), you are blessed beyond belief! These are my beliefs and feelings, but alas, I am a flawed and imperfect human being who tends to err on occasion so I can only say I did my best to express what is MY truth. God bless!




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