RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (Full Version)

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covenant2 -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (4/28/2008 8:39:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hislittleone

Even so, if the only reason the counselors agreed to the change was because they thought the meeting might become volatile (dil temper) then that sounds like a good enough reason to me.


There were differing reasons given by the counselor:

  • Our DIL might say something she shouldn't.
  • You might say something and make things worse.
  • I thought you and your son should have some bonding time.


As far as saying things goes very sensitive issues had been brought up at the first meeting and yet progress had been made. There were tears, there were hugs, there was understanding, there was anger, there was laughter and apologies - and it was because of the anger that she had express at that meeting that I realized just what it was that she had held onto and acted upon for 18 months. Yet, it was not discussed at that first meeting. I didn't want to go into at that time because so much had taken place that there was not enough time for it. Instead, I suggested another meeting and all 5 of us agreed. Without her being there this time to continue those discussions, the meeting seemed useless to us.

Bless



agapetos -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (4/28/2008 8:58:34 PM)

I can understand you feeling the meeting would seem to be useless ~ but it's a shame that you couldn't stay (either for the meeting with your son) or just to see if you could spend time with your son and dil in the time you'd set aside for this purpose.

I wonder what your son would have said to you in that meeting?

You acknowledge that much took place at the first meeting and it seems that you were expecting much from the second meeting. Those kind of expectations can put a lot of pressure on people.



covenant2 -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (4/29/2008 6:16:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agapetos

I can understand you feeling the meeting would seem to be useless ~ but it's a shame that you couldn't stay (either for the meeting with your son) or just to see if you could spend time with your son and dil in the time you'd set aside for this purpose.


We did stay for 9 days. Our son and his wife would not see us or let us see the grandchildren. As I said above, we begged him to come over to our place and even suggested we come to their place to talk after I expressed how we felt about the counselors decision but they wouldn't compromise. I thought we did make a effort to compromise. We had lost trust in the counselor but my husband and I hadn't lost hope that we could resolve it ourselves.

quote:

I wonder what your son would have said to you in that meeting?


We had begun communicating with our son between the first meeting and the expected next meeting and it was going fine but we never talked about issues concerning his wife because we had all agreed that we would not talk about any sensitive issues until the next meeting when we would all be present with a counselor to guide the discussions.

quote:

You acknowledge that much took place at the first meeting and it seems that you were expecting much from the second meeting. Those kind of expectations can put a lot of pressure on people.


Yes, much progress did take place at the first meeting and we were expecting progress to continue. However, we all agreed at the first meeting that there were residual issues that would be discussed at the next meeting. No one felt that the expectations were unreasonable or unwarranted. In my opinion things really went sour because of "message relaying." Our discussions with the counselor were taken to our son and his wife. By the time our son gave us his version of what the counselor had told him about our objections to her cancelling the agreed upon session with all being present to discuss the residual issues that had been brougth up at the first meeting it had an extremely negative connation to it. No matter what we said to him we could not convince him that it was no more than a "key" that would unlock those misconceptions and clarify them in her mind - therefore, ending the turmoil. We tried to convince him that it was not a "bad thing" but a "good thing." We hold the counselor responsible for that. She should never have repeated anything we discussed with her - only that we disagreed with her decision to keep his wife out of the discussion against what had been previously decided upon by all.

Bless



pbaribeault -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (4/29/2008 9:26:14 AM)

quote:

I take it to mean that it is better to walk away than keep beating your head against a wall when you know you are getting nowhere.

That's not really quite what I mean. You can stop "beating your head" yes, but you can do that without "walking away".



Auben -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (4/29/2008 11:02:40 AM)

Ok, I've read this whole thread. These are my thoughts.

You have very specific expectations of the situation and what will work.
When those expectations were not met you became immobile. You would not give so your son and his wife would not give. You can not expect someone else to give (you son and his wife meeting with you) if you are first not willing to give. Stubbornness begats stubbornness.

It seems that your DIL and possibly your son have been seeing these counselors on their own. Perhaps in person. Perhaps on the phone. (Otherwise how or why would the counselors had time to develop this line of reasoning?)
During their time with the counselors on this issue the counselors saw something that they wanted to speak to you as a couple or you and your son alone.

It is completely reasonable for a counselor to wish to see one of the parties alone if they are dealing with a core issue, no matter what you think to the contrary. Perhaps DIL can't do the hardest part in person. Perhaps they need to verify some information without letting the situation digress into I-Said You-said behavior. Perhaps this situation only came to them as your DIL got closer to the meeting date and she started feeling things stronger. Perhaps they got an earful about you on the phone from your DIL and wanted to head-off a bad session by uniting you and your son before facing her.

You will never know now.

When you agreed to go into counseling you agreed to let go of some issues and try to bend a little and make the family work. You were not agreeing to only have meetings your way or only have your point of view vindicated.

I do not know your DIL. I'm assuming that the original problem is all her fault. However, you were not a big enough person, not a flexible enough person to let counseling truly work. You let anger over being 'deceived' stop you from attempting to make progress with your son.

If you truly wanted this to work you would have attended the disappointing session AND THEN made the opinion that it was worthless and renegotiated with the counselors in person from a position of power. There's no way you can really know that it wouldn't work ahead of time, no matter what your past experience. If you had waited until after the session you would have looked good to your son.

The only thing you would have been out then was the wasted money for the trip. Now you may be out that and have further estranged your relationship with your son.

I come from a very stubborn family. The kind of family in which a minor issue can cause people to stop speaking for years. Please, call your son and admit that you were too stubborn. Try to reconnect with the counselors on their terms but talk to them about why they really changed the session. See if they can level with you about where the session was going. Let them know their original reasons did not sound realistic to you and ask them to talk to you on the phone about the situation.

I hope you can reconnect with your son and his family.



covenant2 -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (4/29/2008 1:24:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Auben

Ok, I've read this whole thread. These are my thoughts.

You have very specific expectations of the situation and what will work.
When those expectations were not met you became immobile. You would not give so your son and his wife would not give. You can not expect someone else to give (you son and his wife meeting with you) if you are first not willing to give. Stubbornness begats stubbornness.

Perhaps you missed this above when you "read the whole thread..."we begged him to come over to our place and even suggested we come to their place to talk after I expressed how we felt about the counselors decision but they wouldn't compromise. I thought we did make a effort to compromise.

quote:

It seems that your DIL and possibly your son have been seeing these counselors on their own. Perhaps in person. Perhaps on the phone. (Otherwise how or why would the counselors had time to develop this line of reasoning?)...During their time with the counselors on this issue the counselors saw something that they wanted to speak to you as a couple or you and your son alone.

First, you should not present a hypothetical case and then proceed to talk as if they DID have sessions with the counselor on their own! As far as the hypothetical goes THEY WERE NOT GETTING COUNSELING ON THEIR OWN. We were in communication with our son during the time between the first meeting and the next intended meeting. We had conversations with the counselor. Neither gave any indications whatsoever that they had discussed anything with each other during that time. Secondly, the counselor swore to me that the decision not to have his wife present was ENTIRELY her decision and that it had only been made the day before we arrived. Therefore, we did not hold it against them for any part of the decision. If anything at all, the counselor could very well have said that she wanted to have a discussion with my husband and I before all 4 family members came together in a group if she was concerned about my saying that my husband and I wanted to discuss residual issues. But no, it was her way, one way or now way!

quote:

It is completely reasonable for a counselor to wish to see one of the parties alone if they are dealing with a core issue, no matter what you think to the contrary.

I would have had NO problem with that and, quite frankly, wish they would get counseling!
quote:

Perhaps DIL can't do the hardest part in person. Perhaps they need to verify some information without letting the situation digress into I-Said You-said behavior. Perhaps this situation only came to them as your DIL got closer to the meeting date and she started feeling things stronger. Perhaps they got an earful about you on the phone from your DIL and wanted to head-off a bad session by uniting you and your son before facing her.

Phew! There are so many hypothetical "what ifs" in your post I'm not even going there!

quote:

You were not agreeing to only have meetings your way or only have your point of view vindicated.

ONE MORE TIME....WE ALL (5) AGREED THAT WE WOULD BE MEETING AS A GROUP TO DISCUSS THOSE THINGS THAT HAD BEEN BROUGHT UP AT THE FIRST MEETING!

quote:

However, you were not a big enough person, not a flexible enough person to let counseling truly work.

It was our great expectation that the group meeting would be the last one to clarify important misconceptions.

quote:

You let anger over being 'deceived' stop you from attempting to make progress with your son.

I was angry yes. We spent a great deal of time and wasted money based on the assurance that the meeting would handled in the manner in which we had all agreed upon. A counselors word has to be kept - otherwise confidence is lost in that counselor. Someone above said it best; "A counselors job is to guide and counsel - not to control those in the process."

quote:

If you truly wanted this to work you would have attended the disappointing session AND THEN made the opinion that it was worthless and renegotiated with the counselors in person from a position of power.

How on earth can you attend a session to discuss the misconceptions of the primary component without that primary component speaking for herself about what is going on in her head???? Would you or anyone else here be willing to let their spouse go to a counseling session and talk about what was going on in your head and have total confidence that he is going to get it straight??? I don't think so! In fact, I spoke to the counselor, the counselor spoke to my son, my son spoke to his wife, my son spoke to me and what got back to me DID NOT EVEN COME CLOSE TO WHAT I HAD SAID TO THE COUNSELOR in the first place! That is really what made this whole last series of events deteriorate.
quote:

There's no way you can really know that it wouldn't work ahead of time, no matter what your past experience.
The counselor advocated "message relaying" - there is absolutely no way that message relaying is a good thing when trying to resolve issues with the primary source absent.

quote:

Try to reconnect with the counselors on their terms but talk to them about why they really changed the session. See if they can level with you about where the session was going. Let them know their original reasons did not sound realistic to you and ask them to talk to you on the phone about the situation.

They know what they have to do to set this right - we're waiting for them to do it.

quote:

I hope you can reconnect with your son and his family.


So do we but we aren't expecting much.



dradynsmom -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (4/29/2008 2:21:07 PM)

There is no reason to yell at people. You said in your opening post that all opinions were welcomed. Don't say that if your not wanting ALL opinions. If you just wanted opinions that benifited your side than you should have said so.



covenant2 -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (4/29/2008 2:58:58 PM)

I apologize for sounding like that...it seems as though I have had to say things over and over again that I thought that caps, bold and italics might fix that.



Auben -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (4/29/2008 9:33:52 PM)

Honestly, I'm not sure why you posted asking for opinions either.

From your story you say your DIL got a wrong impression of you and that carried over and colored everything afterward. From your story I can see that you have gotten an impression of the events and that you're unwilling to look beyond your anger and feelings about the situation. You're unwilling to see how the other participants (your son, his wife, the counselors) may view the situation or why they may have done what they've done. Anytime someone tries to give their impression of why things happened or disagree with you you repeat your story with a greater sense of frustration.

Your version just doesn't make sense to me. The counselors didn't do this just on a whim or to manipulate you. Your son and DIL aren't necessarily acting to punish you. You may have begged them to do things your way, but it did have to be your way. Not the previously agreed-upon counseling (they also have a broken promise to hold up).

I'm sorry you're so fed up. If this is how its been I can see why counseling was in order for all of you. I pray time will heal this and one day you will be with your grandchildren again.



covenant2 -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (4/29/2008 10:00:53 PM)

Auben,

Perhaps you shouldn't be so judgmental until you have walked a mile in my shoes. There is much that I have chosen not to put in writing here and judging from the responses, I'm glad I didn't. I said I wanted opinions and I have not regretted that. I have disagreed and clarified but I don't think I have been harsh.

Thank you, even to those who have been unkind but I don't have anything else to add to what I have said thus far.

God Bless!



Hislittleone -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (4/29/2008 10:28:24 PM)

You said that you asked/begged your son (and his wife) to meet with you without the counselors because you believed this could all be solved without them (counselors). Apparently your son and his wife didn't want to do that. So why didn't you just enjoy a nice visit with your son? Maybe the reason they wouldn't visit with you was because they were afraid you'd try to bring up these issues instead of just enjoying a nice visit. Personally, if it were my child, I would do ANYTHING (short of sinning) to maintain a healthy relationship. My husband's oldest brother walked away from the family for 7 years because of some really poor choices on his parents part. It tore the family apart.

I still don't understand why you wouldn't just meet with them without the dil there. So what if not as much could be resolved. At least if you'd done that you would be on better terms with your son.

Your question was who should concede in this family conflict? With the information you've given here, I say you and your husband should.



pbaribeault -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (4/30/2008 6:29:13 PM)

As for the question, "Who should concede in this family conflict?" My answer is obviously EVERYBODY should... But when was the last time you were able to make anybody other than yourself behave as they should? Therefore, out of the 6 people who should concede, why not just pick the person that you are actually in control of and go ahead with some conceding?



3tulips -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (4/30/2008 7:07:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pbaribeault

As for the question, "Who should concede in this family conflict?" My answer is obviously EVERYBODY should... But when was the last time you were able to make anybody other than yourself behave as they should? Therefore, out of the 6 people who should concede, why not just pick the person that you are actually in control of and go ahead with some conceding?


I think so too. And I have to agree with Laura that the counselors are professionals and may be you should have trusted their judgement. Maybe they were just gauging your reaction.



covenant2 -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/1/2008 6:10:33 AM)

quote:

I have to agree with Laura that the counselors are professionals and may be you should have trusted their judgement.

They were unpaid members of our sons church that have never had professional training and it was also clear to us that they were biased towards them and that they were coaching our son to stand firm against his own parents. No matter what our legitimate objections were about the unfair way they had handled it, it fell on deaf ears.
quote:

Maybe they were just gauging your reaction.

A professional counselor would never do that. Would you trust a counselor who did that to you?

I will only end with this. I never like to put a label on people as "victims" too quickly but there are circumstance that do occur when it is clear that sometimes that does happen and I do believe that we have been the "victims" of unfair treatment by our son and his wife that began 2 years ago. We were doing our utmost to set aside "odd and hurtful" incidences for the sake of peace with our sons wife. We are in our 60's and he is our only son. Other that relatives that we only see at weddings and funerals, we have no family other than our son and his wife. If you are not near our ages you cannot understand what it is like to be in a situation where you realize that it is a real possibility that in the very near future you may have to become dependant on someone other than yourself. My mother became very dependant on me and I was the only one there for her until she died last mothers day. It was then that I looked to my son and his wife and began asking myself; "How would they treat me if I were in these circumstances based on the way he had allowed his wife to treat us so disrespectfully in the last few years?" The answer to that has been quite discomforting. Perhaps because of this, it has caused us to "dig our heals in" and in essence try and get across the message that "we are not going to take over-the-top disrespectful and deliberately hurtful behaviors simply because we are getting old and vulnerable." To us, it is a matter of asking; "If this is the way we are treated over somewhat minor issues, what on earth can we expect when we do become so vulnerable that we can do nothing about it?" Our DIL once made the statement; "Old people should not have to go to nursing homes, they should just be allowed to die." They are not "evil" people but I would say that they are quite self-centered. As far as his wife goes, she herself had previously said that she tended to be controlling. That is an understatement. In the past she has said of herself that she also had the tendency to "speak too quickly with a sharp tongue and without thinking first" and even said; "Please tell me when I do." I did and she really didn't care.

I have nothing else whatsoever to say on this matter. Thank you to those who have been kind in their opinions and to those who have not - I do hope that when your children get older and you become "the dreadful evil in-laws" you do not have a daugher-in-law like we have.

Bless



pbaribeault -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/1/2008 9:46:52 AM)

quote:

"dig our heals in" and in essence try and get across the message that "we are not going to take over-the-top disrespectful and deliberately hurtful behaviors simply because we are getting old and vulnerable."

That's your fear talking, and it's a great way to get yourself put in a "home". Kids and kids-in-law tend to only take personal care of elderly folks who are kind, agreeable and pleasant to be around. You're not going to win any kind of power struggle at this point. At this point you are powerless to control how they treat you... in fact, you always were.

If you are really that afraid of aging, it's time for you to make a plan for self sufficiency. Calculate your pensions, make a budget, pay off any debts, research senior's services in your area, move to a home without stairs while you still can... etc.

I'm a nice dil, and I'm not often in any kind of conflict with my in-laws. But I guess I'm self centred too. I have no intention of doing much more than visiting my aging in-laws (or parents). I hope they don't expect to just show up on my doorstep and make me responsible for their growing-towards-incapacity years. If there was any conflict and/or digging in of heels, I probably wouldn't even visit them that often.



covenant2 -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/1/2008 10:36:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pbaribeault

quote:

But I guess I'm self centred too. I have no intention of doing much more than visiting my aging in-laws (or parents). I hope they don't expect to just show up on my doorstep and make me responsible for their growing-towards-incapacity years. If there was any conflict and/or digging in of heels, I probably wouldn't even visit them that often.

Yes, it does sound like you are the kind of person that would cross to the other side of the road if they saw someone lying in the ditch.

Alzheimer's is a disease that affects 50% of those over 80 years old. I do hope that you have children that are kinder than you seem to be and that they may have it in their heart to look after you if you shouldn't be able to take care of yourself. My mother was the kind of person that "hid" her Alzheimer's well for quite a few years because she was so independent. My mother wiped my dirty butt, fed me with a spoon, cleaned up my throw-up and held my hand when a boyfriend broke up with me. I owed her bigtime when she became "as a little child" that couldn't take care of herself. Unfortunately, she eventually did have to go into a nursing home but I was the only child that visited her - the rest were too self centered and too busy with their own families.

It was unfair of you to assume that I would just "suddenly show up on their doorstep, bags in hand and say; "I'm here to ruin the rest of your life, take care of me now and forget your own needs!" So, yes I would say that you do sound like you are very self centered. It is your parents that I am concerned about.



WalkingwithHim2 -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/1/2008 11:22:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: covenant2

quote:

ORIGINAL: pbaribeault

quote:

But I guess I'm self centred too. I have no intention of doing much more than visiting my aging in-laws (or parents). I hope they don't expect to just show up on my doorstep and make me responsible for their growing-towards-incapacity years. If there was any conflict and/or digging in of heels, I probably wouldn't even visit them that often.

Yes, it does sound like you are the kind of person that would cross to the other side of the road if they saw someone lying in the ditch.

Alzheimer's is a disease that affects 50% of those over 80 years old. I do hope that you have children that are kinder than you seem to be and that they may have it in their heart to look after you if you shouldn't be able to take care of yourself. My mother was the kind of person that "hid" her Alzheimer's well for quite a few years because she was so independent. My mother wiped my dirty butt, fed me with a spoon, cleaned up my throw-up and held my hand when a boyfriend broke up with me. I owed her bigtime when she became "as a little child" that couldn't take care of herself. Unfortunately, she eventually did have to go into a nursing home but I was the only child that visited her - the rest were too self centered and too busy with their own families.

It was unfair of you to assume that I would just "suddenly show up on their doorstep, bags in hand and say; "I'm here to ruin the rest of your life, take care of me now and forget your own needs!" So, yes I would say that you do sound like you are very self centered. It is your parents that I am concerned about.




That was totally uncalled for....is that the same approach that you have taken with your dil!?



covenant2 -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/1/2008 11:50:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WalkingwithHim2
That was totally uncalled for....is that the same approach that you have taken with your dil!?

quote:



That was totally uncalled for....is that the same approach that you have taken with your dil!?


Actually, I think it was quite appropriate based on the post. I was merely re-iterating what she was saying of herself. And "no" I do not take that approach with my DIL or most other people for that matter.



WalkingwithHim2 -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/1/2008 12:27:06 PM)

This is the vibe that you are giving out here covenant: it's alot of what about me what about me! The underlying issue has to do with your dil not doing things YOUR way and now YOU are out of money and YOU were incovenienced and YOU were not allowed to visit with your son and YOU don't trust the counselors. Pb merely disagrees with you about the "responsibilities of your son" and you jumped all over her for it ... [8|]

Forgive me if I am wrong but this is the impression that I got.



covenant2 -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/1/2008 2:04:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WalkingwithHim2

Forgive me if I am wrong but this is the impression that I got.


You are forgiven - because you can't be more wrong and that is not what she was saying. Actually I feel quite sorry for her[:)]



pbaribeault -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/1/2008 2:37:30 PM)

I assure you my parents are fine. They were the ones that taught me that it is important to be independent, and they have their own futures adequately planned. Should they have medical needs, they plan to seek the services of a medical professional. Should they need to go into a home, I will provide comfort through the transition, and visit every week or two, or perhaps more frequently depending on their status.

I have every intention of making similar provisions for myself and my husband.

I am currently in the bottom-wiping spoon-feeding stage of parenting. I cleaned up a copious amount of puke just yesterday, but I absolutely don't feel that my children owe me a thing. When my husband and I decided to have babies, we decided to give them everything they needed as a free gift, without strings attached. I feel that it is my personal responsibility to BOTH provide for myself (long term) and for my children (while they are children). There is no, 'pay me back in 60 years' clause in my family life.

If I saw someone laying in the ditch, I would, (1) ensure that my children had a safe place to wait while I checked into it, (2) approach cautiously, calling out in a calm voice and smelling for alcohol, (3) touch the person gently while talking to them in a normal tone, (4) make stronger attempts to revive them while checking their vital signs, (5) call emergency services and continue with first aid according to the circumstances.

I did not say that you were planning to, "suddenly show up on their doorstep, bags in hand and say; "I'm here to ruin the rest of your life, take care of me now and forget your own needs!" I was speaking of myself and my own in-laws when I said, "I hope they don't expect to just show up on my doorstep and make me responsible for their growing-towards-incapacity years." (It is considered impolite to use quotation marks around something that is not actually a quote.) The correlation I was attempting to make is that your dil probably hopes the same thing when/if she thinks about that sort of thing... I was not trying to imply that you would actually do it.

I'm surprised that you can read your own words on the screen and consider them appropriate phrases to use towards a stranger who is making an effort to help you. It doesn't even make a lot of sense to make a connection between my potential wiliness to provide first aid to a stranger, and my stated unwillingness to provide long term lifestyle care for my parents or in-laws. Many of your statements are personal insults, not to mention off the topic of the thread (I did not start a thread asking for opinions about my treatment of my parents or in-laws). I don't plan to report this, because I know you are hurting and scared, and just acting-out, so I haven't taken it personally.

What you seem to miss in my posts is that if I wasn't trying to help you, I wouldn't bother typing.

I'm only trying to make clear that your current behaviour is not likely to result in the result you say you want. I'm sorry if that makes you angry, but I still think it's true. If you want to be loved and cared for in your old age, you're going to have to concede to your son and dil quite a bit, quite frequently. If you don't plan on doing that, I do think it would be wise for you to make plans to care for yourselves.

I hope you can see more sense when you read this again, because there is a true logical flaw deep in your understanding of relationships. When you said
quote:

"we are not going to take over-the-top disrespectful and deliberately hurtful behaviors simply because we are getting old and vulnerable." To us, it is a matter of asking; "If this is the way we are treated over somewhat minor issues, what on earth can we expect when we do become so vulnerable that we can do nothing about it?"
It seems clear to me that you think you can do something about the way they are treating you by somehow "not taking it" for now, and then hoping the precedent will stick once you "can do nothing about it" -- I hope that you will come to see that there is "nothing you can do about it" now. They make their own choices, and you either "take it" and make a fuss, or "take it" and make peace -- or you live without them. There is no real method of "not taking it" when someone behaves badly towards you. In reality, you can expect them to behave exactly the same as you get older, unless you do something that makes them want to be nicer. Nothing you do can make them act as you think they should.



Hislittleone -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/1/2008 11:11:49 PM)

I'm in my very early 30's but already I think about the future, about getting old and not being able to care for myself. I've seen my grandmother and my dh's grandmother get to the point of needing someone to care for them 24/7. They seem so lonely and afraid. When I'm that old I hope there is someone who loves me who's willing to care for me. When my parents are at the point of needing constant supervision I'll be there for them. I would never put someone in a nursing home unless there wasn't another choice. So Covenant2, I do understand how you feel.

But like Pbaribeault said, we can't make someone treat us in a certain way. The best way of insuring you'll be cared for and treated decently is to be as sweet as you can be. Then they'll be more likely to want to care for you as you age. Whereas, if there is much conflict they are likely to want to have little to nothing to do with you.

And Pbaribeault, you make a point about not having strings attached to the loving sacrifices we moms make. I do count on having my children take care of me should the need ever arise because I NEVER want to be put in a nursing home. But maybe that's wrong? I don't know....you did give me something to consider. [;)]



BadLuckBlackie -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/1/2008 11:40:44 PM)

Sadly, this has degenerated into, 'Who should concede in this thread?'



mostofall -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/1/2008 11:59:00 PM)

Your question was, who should concede. If you want to have any kind of meaningful relationship with your son and his family, you concede. Period. That's your job as his parents. The bible says that when a man and his wife are married, they are to go from their parents and cleave together. That is what your son should, and hopefully will, do. HIS job is to value his wife, and support her completely. YOUR job is to support their relationship in love and acceptance. Stop quibbling about who is right or wrong, apologize and move on.



abby_girl -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/2/2008 9:44:53 AM)

It's too bad that you don't have a close relationship with your son and his daughter, but I really think your attitude and perspective on this matter are slightly skewed. You talked about disrespect from your son and DIL, which isn't ideal, but essentially 'putting your foot down' is what works for 12 year olds, not grownups. Your son is a grown man. It's OK if you are last on his priority list - he is oneflesh with his wife and they are parents together. You should think of what you can do to support them, not what they can do to support you.

I think it is wrong to expect your children to care for you in old age. I think it's the right thing for kids to do, but it is not "owed" to parents, especially to parents that don't treat their children like adults. I'm not saying for sure that you do that, but it's definitely the vibe that comes across in your posts.

If your son is your only family, you are probably expecting way too much from him and his wife. You should join an older-adults group at an area church or volunteer to find other fulfilling relational outlets.

Christians should always concede to others. You can decide if it is worth you to continue the relationship with those boundaries they set, but we are to live at peace as much as we can control. You can't do anything about them. You can deal with you. I think you should apologize for any ways you might have stepped on son and DIL's toes, because no one is perfect, and pray privately (but not push) for reconciliation.



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