RE: "Secular" Discrimination Against Religion (Full Version)

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Jhud -> RE: "Secular" Discrimination Against Religion (4/29/2008 8:34:50 AM)

quote:

Christians are the ones in power. When those in powere complain about discrimination, whether they be Christians, males, whites, heterosexuals, it is hard to feel much sympathy. I realize it is possible to discriminate against Christians, and I'm sure discrimination agains Christians happens upon occasion, but when the privilidged complain, it comes across as whining.


Yeah, Christians have so much power in the schools, in the media, in the courts, in the government.

That's why we teach Christian principles in virtually every class, why newsreporters quote verses when they sign off, why judges and politicians regularly uphold the issues we hold dear, like ending abortion and strengthening marriage laws, and allowing greater freedom for religious expression in the public arena. Why Christian morality is widely displayed in popular movies and tv shows.

Feel the power brothers and sisters!



tracydolls -> RE: "Secular" Discrimination Against Religion (4/29/2008 8:48:19 AM)

I am not an evolutionist. In 6th grade, I was asked to write a paper on it. I went home, read it to my grandmother,(she picked cotton and never went to school) asked what she thought, she handed me the Bible. I have never looked back. I have debated evoluntionist, they sound great, real scientific, until you say where is the DNA that says we are related to any ape. HUM....AHhh...umm.....


We can NOT be the ones in charge, it would'nt be such a mess in the schools, there would be no abortions, gays would not be getting married or even thinking about it, they would know to repent from that sin,


As far as the movie, the 10 minute clip I seen, evoluntionist are having a fit about GOD being even thought of as a possiblilty.

Which is some of the craziest mess I have ever heard.



freakofnature -> RE: "Secular" Discrimination Against Religion (4/29/2008 9:38:11 AM)

quote:

Christians are the ones in power. When those in powere complain about discrimination, whether they be Christians, males, whites, heterosexuals, it is hard to feel much sympathy. I realize it is possible to discriminate against Christians, and I'm sure discrimination agains Christians happens upon occasion, but when the privilidged complain, it comes across as whining.


I doubt strongly that Christians are in power of any sort. I think you are getting a little confused with people professing a faith in Christ and living a life that is pleasing to Him, and those admiting there is a god of somesort somewhere? In reality the numbers of regular church attending Christians have been dwindling for several years now, I will link the page on the research as soon as I go back to find it. However, it is the elitist secularist that are attempting to close the discourse on religion, more specifically Christianity. I don't see the same vile hatred of Islam/Muslims as I see in Christianity. But Christ told us we would be persecuted. So bring it on!

OKAY, here is one link: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/april/32.85.html



cow451 -> RE: "Secular" Discrimination Against Religion (4/29/2008 10:58:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

Christians have become chronic whiners and complainers. So I get to use my favorite smiley today:


While I have no desire to be part of a victim group, I have never understood why the slightest remark about a racial group, or sexual orientation, or non-Christian religious group causes incredible consternation amongst those who claim to care about civil liberties, but when it comes to denigrating Christians, even Christians themselves are expected to say nothing. It’s not the denigration that bothers me as much as it is the hypocrisy of those who say we should be silent.


I always thought Christians should hold themselves to a higher standard. But maybe that's just me.



cow451 -> RE: "Secular" Discrimination Against Religion (4/29/2008 11:02:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Since you claim Christ, does this whinner group include you?
quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

People are too thin skinned.

Christians have become chronic whiners and complainers. So I get to use my favorite smiley today: [sm=crystreams.gif]



I claim Christ. I try not to whine about not getting special privileges from the secular world. I was making a general observation that, of course would not apply to every individual.



Jhud -> RE: "Secular" Discrimination Against Religion (4/29/2008 11:19:51 AM)

quote:

I always thought Christians should hold themselves to a higher standard. But maybe that's just me.


I didn't say anything about the proper Christian response; I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of those who claim to care about justice and civil liberties.



lightshineon -> RE: "Secular" Discrimination Against Religion (4/29/2008 11:45:08 AM)

Yeah, why are Christians excluded from civil rights? I pay taxes, just as the pagans do, so why is that fair? That, as a Christian I do not to have the same rights? Am labled a whinner, and the pagans well, they do not whine, it is "free speech".
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

I always thought Christians should hold themselves to a higher standard. But maybe that's just me.


I didn't say anything about the proper Christian response; I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of those who claim to care about justice and civil liberties.



davemiller7 -> RE: "Secular" Discrimination Against Religion (4/29/2008 4:14:34 PM)

Right, lightshineon! We pay taxes that go to help them trash our speech, deny us our rights to freely express our faith in public, and to help them teach our children how wonderful deviant lifestyles are, etc. I'm really overcome by all my power. I hope this absolute power doesn't corrupt me absolutely.

-Dave


quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Yeah, why are Christians excluded from civil rights? I pay taxes, just as the pagans do, so why is that fair? That, as a Christian I do not to have the same rights? Am labled a whinner, and the pagans well, they do not whine, it is "free speech".
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

I always thought Christians should hold themselves to a higher standard. But maybe that's just me.


I didn't say anything about the proper Christian response; I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of those who claim to care about justice and civil liberties.




cow451 -> RE: "Secular" Discrimination Against Religion (4/29/2008 4:30:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Yeah, why are Christians excluded from civil rights? I pay taxes, just as the pagans do, so why is that fair? That, as a Christian I do not to have the same rights? Am labled a whinner, and the pagans well, they do not whine, it is "free speech".


I rest my case.



gengwall -> RE: "Secular" Discrimination Against Religion (4/29/2008 4:33:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Yeah, why are Christians excluded from civil rights? I pay taxes, just as the pagans do, so why is that fair? That, as a Christian I do not to have the same rights? Am labled a whinner, and the pagans well, they do not whine, it is "free speech".
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

I always thought Christians should hold themselves to a higher standard. But maybe that's just me.


I didn't say anything about the proper Christian response; I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of those who claim to care about justice and civil liberties.


What civil rights are you excluded from?



lightshineon -> RE: "Secular" Discrimination Against Religion (4/29/2008 4:54:39 PM)

gengwall, well I amtalking about the teacher making anti Christian remarks, pastors being banned as hate speech speaking out against homosexuality as sin. Where you been? I could go on and on.
quote:

ORIGINAL: gengwall

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Yeah, why are Christians excluded from civil rights? I pay taxes, just as the pagans do, so why is that fair? That, as a Christian I do not to have the same rights? Am labled a whinner, and the pagans well, they do not whine, it is "free speech".
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

I always thought Christians should hold themselves to a higher standard. But maybe that's just me.


I didn't say anything about the proper Christian response; I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of those who claim to care about justice and civil liberties.


What civil rights are you excluded from?



gengwall -> RE: "Secular" Discrimination Against Religion (4/29/2008 5:09:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

gengwall, well I amtalking about the teacher making anti Christian remarks, pastors being banned as hate speech speaking out against homosexuality as sin. Where you been? I could go on and on.
I'm sure you are well aware that I think the teacher in question has violated the rights of the student and that the court will back up that claim. So, although the student's rights presumably have been temporarily violated, things will ultimately be rectified. (although it's California, so who knows how long it will take for justice to be served).

I have heard a great outcry against "hate speech" legislation, prompted by the fear that pastors will be "banned...[for] hate speech speaking out against homosexuality as sin", but I know of no instance where such banning has actually taken place. Maybe you could cite a case for me.

So, as I commented earlier, I am not familiar with the civil rights of Christians being curtailed, at least not successfully when scrutinized by the courts. That isn't to say that certain legislative bodies don't occassionally get things wrong and try to trample on our rights, but that could be claimed by just about any group in this country. I don't see it happening more or less often to Christians than it does to, in keeping with a reoccuring theme, homosexuals. And in general, the courts have, IMO, been very consistent in setting things right.

But more to my point, what civil rights have you personally been excluded from?



lightshineon -> RE: "Secular" Discrimination Against Religion (4/29/2008 6:45:13 PM)

Well it was a job, all Christians were let go. One lady commented on it, that was a Christian. to the man firing her. All were Christians. You may scoff or make up this was something else, but I know what happened. Have you ben persecuted. I have, and am glad because if I am not persecuted for the name of Jesus, am I really standing for Christ. Jesus told his followers remember if the world hates you, they hated me first. He also said if everyone loves you, you are like the prophets of old who told lies. Gay rights another story, I saw on the news they are trying to say preaching against gays as " hate speech", well if I were a pastor drag you would have to drag me to jail. BTw not questioning your salvation just asking have you suffered persecution for following Jesus Christ, as you ask me.



gengwall -> RE: "Secular" Discrimination Against Religion (4/29/2008 6:55:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Well it was a job, all Christians were let go. One lady commented on it, that was a Christian. You will scoff or make up something else, but I know what happened.
Please understand that I don't doubt you, it has just not been my experience. Never-the-less, that is a private matter, not a public one (unless it was a government company the people were fired from).

quote:

Have you ben persecuted.
No, I haven't. At least not by the government. Certainly, I have had individuals who do not agree with my faith; that comes with the territory. But the government has never created a situation in which I was not able to engage in the free exercise of my religion. I have never been excluded from my civil rights in regard to my faith.

quote:

I have, and am glad because if I am not persecuted for the name of Jesus, am I really standing for Christ. Jesus told his followers remember if the world hates you, they hated me first. He also said if everyone loves you, you are like the prophets of old who told lies.
Please keep in mind that we are talking about the exclusion of civil rights. Has there been some law passed which promotes this persecution or prevents you from exercising your right to religious freedom? Have you indeed been prevented at all by the government from the free exercise of religion? If not, then you have not been excluded from your civil rights.

quote:

Gay rights another story, I saw on the news they are trying to say preaching against gays as " hate speech", well if I were a pastor drag you would have to drag me to jail. BTw not questioning your salvation just asking have you suffered persecution for following Jesus Christ, as you ask me.
Talk is cheap. There is no law on the books that I know of which would support or require a pastor be jailed for speaking against homosexuality. If one ever does come about, I have confidence in our constitution and freedoms, and the court's adjudication of those freedoms, that such a law would be struck down.

And to answer your question, no I haven't suffered persecution for following Christ. Ridicule, certainly, scorn and derision, of course, but persecution in the true sense alluded to, i.e. the "exclusion of my civil rights", not at all. That is the beauty of America.

I think that part of the problem is that we have fallen into the belief that "freedom from offense" is a civil right in America. It is not. There is nothing in the constitution or the law that guarentees me the right to not be offended by something or somebody. I am offended all the time in a wide variety of ways but that is no violation of my civil rights. I have probably been just as offensive to other people but I am not violating their civil rights. We need to get over this notion that disagreement with our faith amounts to persection. That is actually an insult to those martyrs past and present who truly understand what persecuation is. People can shout at me all they like but as long as they can't legally punish me for my faith or inhibit my free exercise of my faith, my civil rights are in tact.



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