RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others)
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 3:24:28 PM
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Tinkerbell_
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"The higher the pedestal the farther the fall"
Miley has been put on a pedestal by Christian's and by teenagers because she says she's a Christian.
I don't understand how we can keep pointing fingers at her. She is not supposed to be the role model for our children. If she is then we are in a heap of trouble. I'm sorry, but I don't want my children looking up to a 15 year old character who dates in middle school and high school, kisses all the time, and leads a double life. The Things may watch the show but that's about it. They look up to their teachers and the men of the church and their family members. I know they're boys but girls can be the same way. She became a role model because we as a society are allowing her to be a role model.
How many people here enjoy the beauty and grace, and poise of Katherine Hepburn? I hear many women talk about how they love her and the way she carried herself. Not once have I heard someone criticize her for living with a married man for over 20 years.
No, I don't think Miley has any obligation to be anything other than who she is. She doesn't owe it to us.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 3:29:24 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4377
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
everyone here is distracted by the fabric issues with miley. it's about what's on the inside.
Our actions don't lend a clue to what's going on inside? Try again...
quote:
those close to here are who she is accountable to. they are the ones that should monitor and confront when needed.
Nobody here has said they are going to confront her...
quote:
can we and should we critique culture? of course. but we need to remember that as a person, even public figures have limited accountablilty to us.
I believe it's time to mention this is a forum for the exchange of ideas...
quote:
we can well say what we think crosses a line, but we cannot possibly judge a heart, and how we say what we think has potential to bring harm rather than life.
Judging something wrong or right is what we are to do... No one here is judging what is eternal and if people cannot grasp the difference between what is eternal and what is temporal and the clear distinctions they need to spend some time in study...
I must say... I find it very interesting that the only mention of harm in all this by some is some hypothetical harm from the topic being discussed in this forum....
John
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 3:29:41 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
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The deal is that Miley Cyrus is just like any other 15 year old Christian girl. She is bombarded with different kinds of temptation, just like anyone else, and like anyone else, she stumbles sometimes. I'd like to meet the person who didn't stumble over temptation at all when they were 15. Sin is sin, regardless of what it is. No one pretend that her sin is more atrocious than theirs or anyone else's. Plank and sliver, my brothers and sisters.
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“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 3:29:46 PM
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StephK
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From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
She doesn't have to live in that world though. Like everything else it's a choice she and her family made. She's still 15 years old and a minor. When will we say enough of this sexualizing of young girls? Girls today are clueless about this issue. They don't know that it's wrong to take nudie pics of themselves and broadcast it worldwide on the internet. That is the issue that bothers me more than anything. Girls are putting themselves in real danger and heartbreak down the road and this is not about art either.
i didn't discount critiquing culture.
i don't think christians need to leave the entertainment industry, or southern california, or new york or any other place the "culture beach" exists.
I don't think Christians should leave the entertainment industry as long as they are not compromising their walk to do so. It's hard to not be affected by Hollywood when you are a young kid. It's hard as an adult.
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Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 3:30:41 PM
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OLEEguacamole
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it's VERY hard.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 3:32:49 PM
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OLEEguacamole
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
I believe it's time to mention this is a forum for the exchange of ideas...
John
why?
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 3:33:26 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4377
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
I said you shouldn't judge people. I'm not judging without judging. Do you truly not understand what I mean or are you trying to insult my words?
You wanna say you can judge the sin to be bad, but not the person... As if they are two complete separate items...
I say... Good luck...
Insult your words? Is that a new term? You tried to make disern not mean making a judgment...
John
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 3:35:07 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
I believe it's time to mention this is a forum for the exchange of ideas...
John
why?
Because people put to much stock into what is posted here... Like it's a court of law, or God must act on what is said...
can we and should we critique culture? of course. but we need to remember that as a person, even public figures have limited accountablilty to us.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 3:35:25 PM
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StephK
Posts: 1861
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From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
"The higher the pedestal the farther the fall"
Miley has been put on a pedestal by Christian's and by teenagers because she says she's a Christian.
I don't understand how we can keep pointing fingers at her. She is not supposed to be the role model for our children. If she is then we are in a heap of trouble. I'm sorry, but I don't want my children looking up to a 15 year old character who dates in middle school and high school, kisses all the time, and leads a double life. The Things may watch the show but that's about it. They look up to their teachers and the men of the church and their family members. I know they're boys but girls can be the same way. She became a role model because we as a society are allowing her to be a role model.
How many people here enjoy the beauty and grace, and poise of Katherine Hepburn? I hear many women talk about how they love her and the way she carried herself. Not once have I heard someone criticize her for living with a married man for over 20 years.
No, I don't think Miley has any obligation to be anything other than who she is. She doesn't owe it to us.
She was marketed as a wholesome Christian girl because that is her target audience. Miley needs to be allowed to be a kid, get an education and when she's an adult then make the decisions for herself so she doesn't end up like the majority of all the other child stars. As far as the role model issue, whether people like it or not, kids do emulate who they watch, even on tv. It shouldn't be that way but it is.
Katherine Hepburn was at least an adult when she was in her heyday. While she was wrong in her choices, she was legally old enough to decide for herself and understand the consequences of her actions.
< Message edited by StephK -- 5/6/2008 3:47:32 PM >
_____________________________
Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 3:38:44 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1089
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
I believe it's time to mention this is a forum for the exchange of ideas...
John
why?
Because people put to much stock into what is posted here... Like it's a court of law, or God must act on what is said...
can we and should we critique culture? of course. but we need to remember that as a person, even public figures have limited accountability to us.
one must also remember that it is a public forum. the words are being published and googled.
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there's life in a pit.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 3:43:35 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
I said you shouldn't judge people. I'm not judging without judging. Do you truly not understand what I mean or are you trying to insult my words?
You wanna say you can judge the sin to be bad, but not the person... As if they are two complete separate items...
I say... Good luck...
Insult your words? Is that a new term? You tried to make disern not mean making a judgment...
John
Thank you for the wishing of luck. I never said it was easy, but Jesus never said anything about ease either.
I tried no such thing. I used two synonyms to try to show you separation between one (the sin) and the other (the sinner). Apparently it didn't work. Oh well. I'm not the perfect wordsmith.
I do believe a sin and a person are two completely different things.
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 3:54:20 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 3885
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
She was marketed as a wholesome Christian girl because that is her target audience.
She was marketed as a wholesome girl...her target audience is not Christian. "Hannah Montana" does not belong to her; in fact, the guy who created it also created "That's So Raven." (Another wholesome girl who happens to be psychic.)
quote:
Miley needs to be allowed to be a kid, get an education and when she's an adult then make the decisions for herself so she doesn't end up like the majority of all the other child stars.
Agree.
quote:
As far as the role model issue, whether people like it or not, kids do emulate who they watch, even on tv. It shouldn't be that way but it is.
And I still think this is a parent problem, not necessarily a Miley Cyrus problem.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 4:01:47 PM
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StephK
Posts: 1861
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
She was marketed as a wholesome Christian girl because that is her target audience.
She was marketed as a wholesome girl...her target audience is not Christian. "Hannah Montana" does not belong to her; in fact, the guy who created it also created "That's So Raven." (Another wholesome girl who happens to be psychic.)
That's more what I meant but it comes down to the fact that she was marketed as a wholesome kid.
quote:
And I still think this is a parent problem, not necessarily a Miley Cyrus problem.
It is but the influence is still going to rub off.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 4:14:02 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Does that include the person in the picture who said they were a mistake? Of course there are the pictures of her pulling down her top and in her underwear... Oh, and the ones where she is playing around with another girl...
With all the elpotation of children going on you'd think people would even consider to error on the side of caution... Nope...
I have to ask... What is being defended here? The idea that it is edifying for a 15 year old girl to have pictures of her partially covered in for all to see? Sorry, these are't tub pictures of a 2 year old...
Given what the bible says about lust and mankinds inherent issues with things of the sexual nature how does one say the picures are, I believe the word is innocuous...
Again what is being defended? It's not the 15 year old girl, that's for sure..
John
Of the photos I have seen none are offensive or at least should not be to a non-lustful person.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 4:25:50 PM
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2shaye
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From: So. Cal.
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It seems to me that those who are strongly condemning (judging, forming negative opinions, or whatever the term d'jour is) might be Christians who have never had the experience of really blowing it as a Christian and experienced Gods mercy and grace. For those of us who aren't perfect and know all about grace and forgiveness, maybe we are the ones who have more understanding of the situation.
Just a thought...
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 5:35:24 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
one must also remember that it is a public forum. the words are being published and googled.
And carry the weight of what?
John
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 5:45:43 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1089
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it is not just what we say but how we say it. we are not speaking in the privacy of our own homes and how we are heard counts.
colossians 4:5
Conduct yourselves with wisdom toward outsiders , making the most of the opportunity. 4:6 Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 5:47:41 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4377
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
I used two synonyms to try to show you separation between one (the sin) and the other (the sinner).
Apparently it didn't work. Oh well. I'm not the perfect wordsmith.
What doesn't work is your attempt to remove the sin from the person... Consider the fact that in this post you referred to a person as a sinner People have a sinful nature...
quote:
I do believe a sin and a person are two completely different things.
So a liar doesn't lie, a thief doesn't steal, a homosexual doesn't have fornicate with the same sex?
John
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 5:54:33 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4377
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Does that include the person in the picture who said they were a mistake? Of course there are the pictures of her pulling down her top and in her underwear... Oh, and the ones where she is playing around with another girl...
With all the elpotation of children going on you'd think people would even consider to error on the side of caution... Nope...
I have to ask... What is being defended here? The idea that it is edifying for a 15 year old girl to have pictures of her partially covered in for all to see? Sorry, these are't tub pictures of a 2 year old...
Given what the bible says about lust and mankinds inherent issues with things of the sexual nature how does one say the picures are, I believe the word is innocuous...
Again what is being defended? It's not the 15 year old girl, that's for sure..
John
Of the photos I have seen none are offensive or at least should not be to a non-lustful person.
Thanks
RC
I wonder if there is scripture for your view of this... I wasn't aware that considering partially covered pictures of a 15 girl inappropriate meant that one is lustful…
I am still trying to even remotely consider what could be edifying for a 15 year old girl to have pictures of her partially covered in for all to see.
Well there are more photos out there and in my opinion that reflect a far different image than what is being said... If you wish to remain in the dark about it that is your prerogative, but taken as whole it's not innocuous as you might want it to be...
John
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 5:54:57 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1089
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
I used two synonyms to try to show you separation between one (the sin) and the other (the sinner).
Apparently it didn't work. Oh well. I'm not the perfect wordsmith.
What doesn't work is your attempt to remove the sin from the person... Consider the fact that in this post you referred to a person as a sinner People have a sinful nature...
quote:
I do believe a sin and a person are two completely different things.
So a liar doesn't lie, a thief doesn't steal, a homosexual doesn't have fornicate with the same sex?
John
a believer that sins is not condemned, he's in need of repentance and correction. his sin needs to be corrected but he is not the "thief" liar" any longer. if you want to play semantics with that you can say if you lie, you are a liar-one who lies, but that is not true to what the bible says our standing in God's court is.
we are told to correct in love and fear for our own falling. we are to remember that we are redeemed in our fallen state and so is our brother. we are not to predict or suppose we know if a brother will stand or fall away because that is up to God to judge. what we are allowed to judge is limited.
< Message edited by mrsdash -- 5/6/2008 6:01:20 PM >
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 5:58:37 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4377
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2shaye
It seems to me that those who are strongly condemning (judging, forming negative opinions, or whatever the term d'jour is) might be Christians who have never had the experience of really blowing it as a Christian and experienced Gods mercy and grace. For those of us who aren't perfect and know all about grace and forgiveness, maybe we are the ones who have more understanding of the situation.
Just a thought...
Or maybe we have really blown it and hope that raising a red flag now will stop the train from going completely off the track...
Of course again we have the idea that anyone who has the nerve to pass judgment cannot forgive... Again... For there to be forgiveness and offence needed to take place... Right?
What is being defending here?
John
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 5:59:14 PM
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StephK
Posts: 1861
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2shaye
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2shaye
It seems to me that those who are strongly condemning (judging, forming negative opinions, or whatever the term d'jour is) might be Christians who have never had the experience of really blowing it as a Christian and experienced Gods mercy and grace. For those of us who aren't perfect and know all about grace and forgiveness, maybe we are the ones who have more understanding of the situation.
Just a thought...
I do know what it's like to mess up and make stupid choices. I also would have liked it if someone cared enough to put their foot down and said you are making stupid decisions that could affect the rest of your life. Maybe her family will see that they were getting caught up in the hype of celebrity and make some adjustments. The last time I looked it was okay to form opinions based on information at hand. She shouldn't even be the singing phenom she is because she's not that great of a singer. Without autotune and protools she wouldn't be selling all those albums. 
So are you saying that you made stupid choices because no one stopped you?
I think God allows us to make decisions for ourselves. Sometimes the bad ones are the ones that bring us closer to Him, and *I* think that's what this life is all about - getting closer and closer to God. Maybe this whole Miley thing is about God allowing her to make mistakes in order to get closer to him? If that's the case, why would any other Christian be condemning?
When I was a dumb kid I made stupid choices that have affected me long term. Had my parents not been so tied up with their own issues and dealt with the rebellion that I was obviously in then certain aspects of my life would be different. As a minor child, Miley Cyrus' parents are still the ones who should be looking out for her and saying no this is inappropriate not going along for the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Jessica Simpson's father still ick's me out in how he's handled his daughters career as an ordained minister.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/6/2008 6:00:28 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1089
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quote:
What is being defending here?
i think it's being suggested that stones not be thrown while discussing standards.
< Message edited by mrsdash -- 5/6/2008 6:06:31 PM >
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