Anyone read Karl Rove's stuff at Newsweek? (Full Version)

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rlj -> Anyone read Karl Rove's stuff at Newsweek? (4/29/2008 8:49:09 AM)

Anyone read Karl Rove's stuff at Newsweek? It's really good. 4 of the columns he's written have been posted over there. Out of curiousity I figured I'd see what the idiot had to say.

I was wrong- about him being an idiot. The columns are about the election this year and they're pretty interesting. I have never read anything by someone with election experience but he seems to make an awful lot of sense with his comments.

LINK HERE

Here's a clip from a column called "Crackup? Not So Fast":

quote:

Every presidential election is about change, and no more so than at the end of a two-term president's time in the White House. Parties have to constantly update themselves if they hope to remain relevant. The difficulty for both Republicans and Democrats is that our political system is at a point where more than the normal amount of party growth and development is needed. Both parties are suffering the consequences of seeing substantial parts of their 20th-century agendas adopted; both parties are struggling to fashion new answers to the new challenges of a young century.

But that's not to say that the Reagan legacy is exhausted. Ronald Reagan's legacy was not simply that he was "a campaigner and orator of uncommon skill," as Don Campbell argued last week in USA Today. President Reagan's gifts to the Republican Party were ideas: growing the economy through tax cuts, limiting government's size, forcefully confronting totalitarian threats, making human rights a centerpiece of America's foreign policy, respecting unborn human life, empowering the individual with more freedom. Those ideas endure. They give Republicans a philosophical foundation on which to build. The Reagan coalition has a natural desire to stick together. Fiscal, defense and values conservatives have more in common with each other than with any major element of the Democratic Party's leadership.


Enjoy because I'm still kind of stunned that I did. I'll read the lst one later.



Jhud -> RE: Anyone read Karl Rove's stuff at Newsweek? (4/29/2008 2:09:40 PM)

quote:

I was wrong- about him being an idiot. The columns are about the election this year and they're pretty interesting. I have never read anything by someone with election experience but he seems to make an awful lot of sense with his comments.


Yes, I think Rove is a political genius, and part of his genius was to get people to underestimate him (even think that he was an idiot [;)] ).

He has great advise for Obama here; we'll find out how smart the Illinois Senator is by how closely he follows it.



davemiller7 -> RE: Anyone read Karl Rove's stuff at Newsweek? (4/29/2008 2:23:48 PM)

I think Obama's so indebted to his core backers, that to change now, will cause him to lose a lot of them and cause the rest of us to wonder if he really has any core beliefs that he is willing to stand up for.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

I was wrong- about him being an idiot. The columns are about the election this year and they're pretty interesting. I have never read anything by someone with election experience but he seems to make an awful lot of sense with his comments.


Yes, I think Rove is a political genius, and part of his genius was to get people to underestimate him (even think that he was an idiot [;)] ).

He has great advise for Obama here; we'll find out how smart the Illinois Senator is by how closely he follows it.



Jhud -> RE: Anyone read Karl Rove's stuff at Newsweek? (4/29/2008 2:50:02 PM)

quote:

I think Obama's so indebted to his core backers, that to change now, will cause him to lose a lot of them and cause the rest of us to wonder if he really has any core beliefs that he is willing to stand up for.


I don't know - I think Obama is reading Rove...

Obama says he's outraged by former pastor's comments



rlj -> RE: Anyone read Karl Rove's stuff at Newsweek? (4/29/2008 4:03:42 PM)

quote:

Yes, I think Rove is a political genius, and part of his genius was to get people to underestimate him (even think that he was an idiot ).


I ate some humble pie reading that stuff. [sm=blush.gif]



GroupW -> RE: Anyone read Karl Rove's stuff at Newsweek? (4/29/2008 4:10:54 PM)

I've always thought the man was extremely smart.

Whether or not he is wise is a different question....



henny -> RE: Anyone read Karl Rove's stuff at Newsweek? (4/29/2008 11:59:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud
Yes, I think Rove is a political genius, and part of his genius was to get people to underestimate him (even think that he was an idiot ).


People underestimated Rove?

I disagree. The main view of the Bush administration held by many liberals over the past 8 years was that Bush was the "idiot" while Rove was the superhuman genius behind the scenes pulling all the strings (he was usually referred to somewhat derisively as "Bush's brain" -there's even both a documentary and book about him by that name). To hear some liberals talk you would think that Rove had magical powers.

Rove's a PR genius. The basic strategies he used to win the election were very smart (i.e. how he played off of fear, and worked the Republican base -including evangelicals- in order to win by "just enough." In fact, I suspect Hilary was paying attention to some of this). But he's terrible at policy, and I think his magic wore out towards the end of the Bush administration. He failed to switch his game up and used the same tricks so many times that they eventually got old.

Even he couldn't spin something like Iraq or Katrina.

I did read his advice to Obama, though, and it was very good (I agreed with basically all of it). His advice about coming up with one line and sticking to it, however, was basically the Bush play book. In the 2004 election, it seemed like Bush basically just had a series of prepared lines that he would say over and over without actually "talking" himself -which is incredibly frustrating (and you could really tell when he would start to talk for himself, because it was often completely non-nonsensical, but that's probably a point for the Bush bashing thread). While I think Obama would do better for himself if he did something like this, I actually hope he doesn't. I like to hear a politician actually speak for themselves, as oppossed to parroting pre-processed sound bites, even if it means he might put his foot in his mouth from time to time.



tracydolls -> RE: Anyone read Karl Rove's stuff at Newsweek? (4/30/2008 12:23:02 AM)

Anytime, a man can make a rich, dumb, kid born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and make him look like an ordinary, average, american from Texas, he is a genuis, he repackaged bush and sold him to millions of American. Rove is very smart. Great article, good advice.

BO should come out and say he was lying in the beginning trying to be nice, and go off on Wright.

Ok edit that, Bo should come out and say he really was'nt paying attention in Church, when I see video of him there in TUCC, he is dancing off beat, looking around, clapping when he is not suppose to, when he says he can't remember if he was there for a particular sermon, I believe him.

My eyes started to gloss over after about 5 or 6 sermons, I know BO, after 20 years stopped paying attention along time ago. He should just go on and admit that, and be careful, the NOI killed Malcolm X.

I'm glad that Rove is giving advice freely. John Kerry would have paid all of Teresa's Heinz Ketchup money for it in 2004.

Rove understands the political landscape, i like that in him, he is good at what he does.



TomTurn -> RE: Anyone read Karl Rove's stuff at Newsweek? (4/30/2008 7:48:21 AM)

quote:

I know BO, after 20 years stopped paying attention along time ago.


Michelle sure bought into it and goes to my point that she is the one "in charge". BHO is just a puppet



rlj -> RE: Anyone read Karl Rove's stuff at Newsweek? (4/30/2008 2:38:15 PM)

quote:

I'm glad that Rove is giving advice freely. John Kerry would have paid all of Teresa's Heinz Ketchup money for it in 2004.


He is most definately getting paid for his columns I would assume. Perhaps he's setting himself up to get back into politics for future elections? I know if I was running now (on either ticket) I would try and hire him as a consultant in a DT kind of way so no one would know I'm consulting with him. (DT is from
"All The Presidents Men")

quote:

Rove understands the political landscape, i like that in him, he is good at what he does.


That is what I underestimated about him in the political arena. I used to consider him and Republicans in general as aloof to the general population- not really understanding it. He possibly has the best grasp of the populace of anyone in politics today. That is what impressed me about him in a "Bill Belichek" kind of way- I don't like him but I now have a respect for his ability in this field.

quote:

The main view of the Bush administration held by many liberals over the past 8 years was that Bush was the "idiot" while Rove was the superhuman genius behind the scenes pulling all the strings (he was usually referred to somewhat derisively as "Bush's brain" -there's even both a documentary and book about him by that name). To hear some liberals talk you would think that Rove had magical powers.


I attributed the reason to the '00 and '04 losses to Bush more a result of the people the dems nominated then anything that Bush and his camp did. Gore and Kerry both cames off as incompetent to me and aloof from many of the voters. I attributed both losses as to poor candidates as opposed to strategy on the Bush side. I underestimated Rove.

quote:

But he's terrible at policy,


Some of his shortcomings concerning "policy" made the news moreso than his efforts during the 2 Presidential campaigns and even the 1994 Texas Gubernatorial when from a distance I was quite stunned that Richardson lost. Since his shortcomings in the White House were what I was more privy to it helped shape my low opinion of him.

quote:

in order to win by "just enough."


I thought of that to after I read this it reminded me of a quote I read years ago attributed to JFK:

quote:

I just received the following wire from my generous Daddy; Dear Jack, Don't buy a single vote more than is necessary. I'll be darned if I'm going to pay for a landslide.


This quote from Rove is something that has been on my mind for the last couple of weeks:

quote:

It's powerful when you say America is not "Red States or Blue States but the United States." The problem is, you don't have a long Senate record of working across party lines.


I am slowly leaning towards McCain for this reason. The nation can't run with the polarization among party lines that it now has. The two parties have to actually work together on a more consistent basis. I don't agree with a considerable portion of McCain's politics but I do respect that he "crosses the aisle" as often as he does.



wing2000 -> RE: Anyone read Karl Rove's stuff at Newsweek? (4/30/2008 9:36:29 PM)

quote:


I did read his advice to Obama, though, and it was very good (I agreed with basically all of it). His advice about coming up with one line and sticking to it, however, was basically the Bush play book. In the 2004 election, it seemed like Bush basically just had a series of prepared lines that he would say over and over without actually "talking" himself -which is incredibly frustrating (and you could really tell when he would start to talk for himself, because it was often completely non-nonsensical, but that's probably a point for the Bush bashing thread). While I think Obama would do better for himself if he did something like this, I actually hope he doesn't. I like to hear a politician actually speak for themselves, as oppossed to parroting pre-processed sound bites, even if it means he might put his foot in his mouth from time to time.


I agree (Rove made some good points). And I do prefer a President who speaks for himself. Obama is not as smooth as either of the Clintons or the ultimate script reader, Ronald Reagan....but when I hear him speak (not the stump speech of course), it's clear he is speaking for himself.



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