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RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat - 5/2/2008 12:49:35 AM
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Kat_D
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I don't believe most studies. If they did what they are supposed to do, why, after years of intense study to approve medications, treatments and products, do we still find that 20 years later those very things that were studied so carefully give you cancer or worse??
The Bible says each of us is unique and wonderfully made by the Lord. That, to me, means that we are different from the inside out. I believe some are made to be thin and some are meant to be heavier and for many fighting that is a hopeless battle. Generalizations about weight means nothing and the studies that say they prove them mean even less. What works for one person to get or stay slim and fit will not work for another and that is a fact...and it didn't take years of studies and millions of our tax dollars to figure it out. That's why we have a zillion different diets out there...most of which don't work... at least not for long.
The "You can never be too thin" mentality of this nation is why we have thousands upon thousands of people with severe eating disorders. For many, the eating disorder started with a diet to lose a few pounds and ends up taking complete control of the dieter's life and making them very, very sick.
Like Elastic said, people who are heavy know that they are heavy. Threads like this one are not productive and usually just end up hurting people!
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I only have Eyes for You, Lord!
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RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat - 5/2/2008 8:29:57 AM
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bluestone
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My best friend is very, very overweight. She eats normal portions, and walks, hikes occasionally, and works out at a gym a couple of nights a week.
I have wondered how the weight stays on her, but figured it out while we were working on a scrap-booking project for her Aunt.
The family photos going back over 100 years showed some of her ancestors wearing heavy weight...in exactly the same places she did! There seemed to be one or two in every generation of her family!
Genetics are not the only cause of weight, but it is a factor for some people. Perhaps that is why it is hard to get rid of.
Her husband married her knowing full well she was fat. He loves her dearly, and thinks she is the most lovely woman on Earth. Perhaps that would make a good thread...men who can see past outer issues.
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RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat - 5/2/2008 10:35:04 AM
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Konstantinos
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quote:
Perhaps that would make a good thread...men who can see past outer issues.
you cant possibly totally ignore them, specially if its for marriage
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RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat - 5/2/2008 10:37:28 AM
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NoShow
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quote:
Perhaps that would make a good thread...men who can see past outer issues.
To be followed by a thread...women who can see past outer issues.
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RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat - 5/2/2008 10:49:48 AM
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agapetos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Konstantinos
quote:
Perhaps that would make a good thread...men who can see past outer issues.
you cant possibly totally ignore them, specially if its for marriage
No one is suggesting ignoring them, just seeing past them... there is a huge difference...
quote:
To be followed by a thread...women who can see past outer issues. I think that this was discussed in the same thread that talked about women who were overweight.
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RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat - 5/2/2008 11:16:58 AM
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bluestone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NoShow
quote:
Perhaps that would make a good thread...men who can see past outer issues.
To be followed by a thread...women who can see past outer issues.
women see past outer issues all the time. Bald as an eagle, pot bellied beer gut, bad teeth, etc.
_____________________________
"Ginger Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did..and did it backwards and in heels!
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RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat - 5/2/2008 11:19:49 AM
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bluestone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Konstantinos
you cant possibly totally ignore them, specially if its for marriage
What would you do if your thin bride packs the weight on in her mid 40's-50's as many women do?
Divorce her, or make her miserable?
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"Ginger Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did..and did it backwards and in heels!
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RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat - 5/2/2008 11:23:11 AM
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agapetos
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And I know several couples where the wife has an 'outer issue'. It's not a one-way street here...
We have to understand, both men and women have 'outer issues'. Some can be dealt with, some can't. Some are apparent early on in a relationship, others over time ~ years sometimes.
We do need to learn to see past the person because if we don't we are going to be looking for perfection...
And there is no such thing.
But while looking, we will be ostricising many people and missing valuable lessons they could teach us ~ not to mention the risk of superiority our attitudes may bring.
_____________________________
The loose cannon inside the ship is far more dangerous
than the storm that rages outside the ship.
My blog
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RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat - 5/2/2008 11:25:32 AM
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NoShow
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
quote:
ORIGINAL: NoShow
quote:
Perhaps that would make a good thread...men who can see past outer issues.
To be followed by a thread...women who can see past outer issues.
women see past outer issues all the time. Bald as an eagle, pot bellied beer gut, bad teeth, etc.
I agree, so do men. My point was it's not gender specific.
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RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat - 5/2/2008 12:12:27 PM
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Miss Giggles
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The best thing to do is know your own numbers, cholesterol, resting heart ,etc rate and keep on track of them.
Fitness Assessments are provided at many gyms and give a good baseline as to whether you are actually improving your physical fitness.
Everyone's numbers will be different.
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RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat - 5/2/2008 12:33:10 PM
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Konstantinos
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quote:
Yeah, I tried to ignore that post, but since you brought it up Bluestone, I will now express my heartfelt feelings about it. They are as follows:
PATOOEY!!!
as always
_____________________________
I'm best friends with the boogie man.
I'm a beast.
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RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat - 5/2/2008 2:43:03 PM
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lanalounsbury
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Don't be decieved. Being obese (Body mass index over 30) is NOT HEALTHY regardless of how many walks go you on.
Oh wouldn't our society love to believe we can stuff everything into our mouths we want, stretch our stomachs beyond the capacity they were created to be, load our bones and joints down with the extra weight of all that excess fat, crowd our lungs and other organs with layers and layers of internal fat and still be "healthy" just because we pay our $50/month to the gym and lift weights once a week.
Because then there would be nothing wrong with us, then our greed for food wouldn't be wrong, then our overindulgence isn't sinful. Then there would be no need for a saviour.
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RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat - 5/2/2008 2:57:46 PM
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ta_mosquito
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I'm obese. I'm working on it. I have lost over 16 lbs this year through eating better and exercising more. I'm more fit than I was when I started - that's for sure. I don't huff and puff as much when climbing flights of stairs; I'm developing muscle under this fat. My digestive system is healthier with the fiber, vitamins, and other good things I'm eating. I'm more fit than I was before... but am I as fit as I could be? Of course not. Am I as fit (healthy) as I will be when I've lost my final 50 lbs? Of course not. I'm lugging around extra weight that makes my heart work harder, my joints stress more, etc.
It's just common sense.
ETA: Oh, and I'm not depriving myself, either. Just thought I'd make that clear.
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 5/2/2008 3:18:40 PM >
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RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat - 5/3/2008 1:57:13 PM
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agapetos
Posts: 5313
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quote:
Don't be decieved. Being obese (Body mass index over 30) is NOT HEALTHY regardless of how many walks go you on. Don't be decieved... BMI is a tool that is used to determine whether a person is within a healthy weight for their height and age ~ but it should not be used as a stand-alone tool. I know someone who's very fit and his BMI is high, but he's not obese. Infact many athletes have a high BMI.
And while having a high bmi (and indications from other tools that there is a weight problem) even though you go on long walks, it's healthier than having a high bmi etc and sitting on your butt all day!
_____________________________
The loose cannon inside the ship is far more dangerous
than the storm that rages outside the ship.
My blog
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RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat - 5/3/2008 7:04:27 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
The "You can never be too thin" mentality of this nation is why we have thousands upon thousands of people with severe eating disorders. For many, the eating disorder started with a diet to lose a few pounds and ends up taking complete control of the dieter's life and making them very, very sick.
Frankly, I think there are millions more people who are overweight or obese costing this nation Billions more in health care and other costs than there are the anorexic, diet-obsessed. And eating disorders are much more complex than a simple diet gone bad. It's much deeper than that and really isn't about food or weight at all most of the time.
There isn't a "you can never be too thin" mentality in this country. We have a blame somebody else or "at least I'm not as bad as that person" mentality, if anything. The days of Twiggie and Calista Flockharts bones protruding in tabloid photos are in the past. Those photos are the gross examples now and way out of fashion. The "fashion" or ideal now is the Jessica Alba or Angelina Jolie type and those ladies certainly don't starve themselves. The eat pretty much a perfect diet, I'm sure and they work very very hard to keep that shape.
The skinny message isn't what's hurting us, it's the disgusting quality and absurd quantity of food that most of us eat. There are certainly genetic components for some people but I've never met one of those people who was eating a clean, natural diet and doing any real working out. I've also never met anyone with a consistenly clean diet and a moderate level of exercise who was overweight. I've never met a fat vegetarian!
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RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat - 5/3/2008 11:44:01 PM
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StephK
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Both extremes are dangerous. Read up on the Cult of Ana. There are many fat vegetarians too.
< Message edited by StephK -- 5/3/2008 11:50:24 PM >
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"If one starts with an impersonal beginning, the answer to morals eventually turns out to be the assertion that there are no morals." ~Francis Schaeffer
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RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat - 5/4/2008 12:37:57 AM
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womaninchrist
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Steph's right. It's very possible to be an overweight - and even more unhealthy than normal because you're not getting proper protein - vegetarian. She's also right that it's very possible - and still quite encouraged - to be TOO thin and that TOO thin is unhealthy too.
Either I live in a weird spot or the point of fit but fat that I've always heard was misstated or understated by the media blurbs about this study. I never heard ANYONE (not even my docs) say that it was possible to be fit but fat AND be just as healthy as if you weighed what you should, just that if you were making an effort to be fit (i.e. execising properly but not necessarily losing the excess weight) you were better off than being JUST fat (i.e. overweight and not exercising) and in many ways potentially better off than thin (i.e. those of normal weight, not the underweight) and not exercising.
But that whole loop leads back to the fact that there are as many reasons for being overweight as there are overweight people. Sure, some do overeat. But some undereat. Some don't exercise, some even can't exercise. But others are more active than lots of people of "normal weight". Some eat junk. Others eat a lot healthier than many of "normal weight". Don't pretend to know why a person is overweight unless you REALLY know the person and their eating and exercise habits.
Also, this society has a nasty habit of presuming that normal weight comes as one size fits all. That all women, for example (and I'm only going with the example of women because as a woman I've repeatedly been made painfully aware of society's standards for my appearance), should be no larger than size 8 or no heavier than 120 or so. This overlooks things like that the average woman is a size 14. That at least some of us have bone structures that'd never fit a size 8 even if we lost ALL fat (and most muscle - and perhaps even some bones). It even ignores that some women have lean body masses than the "allowed" weight - such of us would have to be UNHEALTHY to be accepted as healthy. Something is very twisted in all that mess.
As a side note, BMI is sort of best guess. It's better than nothing, but it presumes a certain type of frame and a certain ratio of fat/lean. This is why for some it's reasonably close and for others it'll say they're morbidly obese while they've actually got a normal amount of body fat. I don't know why doctors don't invest in a bioimpedance tool. They're not that expensive and a lot more accurate.
< Message edited by womaninchrist -- 5/4/2008 12:44:46 AM >
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RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat - 5/4/2008 7:42:15 AM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: womaninchrist
Also, this society has a nasty habit of presuming that normal weight comes as one size fits all. That all women, for example (and I'm only going with the example of women because as a woman I've repeatedly been made painfully aware of society's standards for my appearance), should be no larger than size 8 or no heavier than 120 or so. This overlooks things like that the average woman is a size 14. That at least some of us have bone structures that'd never fit a size 8 even if we lost ALL fat (and most muscle - and perhaps even some bones). It even ignores that some women have lean body masses than the "allowed" weight - such of us would have to be UNHEALTHY to be accepted as healthy. Something is very twisted in all that mess.
But an "average" 14 is a problem. Especially when you consider a 14 now is more like what a 16 or 18 was ten years ago - we gotta be honest, they're making clothes (and everything else) bigger because we're getting bigger! I'm short and of medium build (certainly not naturally petite by any stretch) but I'm also very much "average". I understand (and envy) my tall beautiful friends who tower over me and realize they aren't and shouldn't be a size 4. But we can't use the "average" as any kind of guage of what's healthy.
I think what's important is the flip side of this topic - whether a 4 or a 14, it's very possible to be very unhealthy. If we focused on eating correctly and getting more activity as a society, we'd fare better in every aspect (but if we did that, the average wouldn't be a size 14 either).
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RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat - 5/4/2008 8:46:41 AM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 10672
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From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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quote:
I think what's important is the flip side of this topic - whether a 4 or a 14, it's very possible to be very unhealthy. If we focused on eating correctly and getting more activity as a society, we'd fare better in every aspect
Amen.
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Tricia
Beauty isn't in the eye of the beholder as much as beauty exists for those who have eyes to see it.
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