RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (Full Version)

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womaninchrist -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 10:01:13 AM)

Not all 14s are 14s because they're overweight, that's a presumption you're making CSL7037. Many simply don't have the bone/muscle structure to be a size 6/8. Maybe they could, in some cases, get down to a 12 or even a 10, but I'd bet the majority would never HEALTHILY meet society's ideal of a 6/8. Like in my case with 16.5" shoulders. Those often don't fit into a 14 even if the rest of me would.

I also don't eat like you're presuming. I eat lean meats in limited amounts, use some vegetarian proteins (usually a pairing of legumes/grains), lean dairy, fresh seasonal produce, etc. And if anything, per my docs, I undereat.

Nor am I slothful. No matter what - and Seattle's downtown offers plenty of whats - I get in at least 2 miles per day of walking/jogging. A series of leg deformities (stuff from birth) rule out running and the docs limit my jogging.

As to why I'm this size, I'd love to know. But I'm tall and skinny for my family. So I suppose that's a question to be answered by the bits of metabolism and genetics we don't yet understand or it might even be simply how the Lord made me on purpose. All I know is that I'm not a size 16 because I'm doing all the wrong things, nor am I - for how I'm built - fat. Though it did take quite a bit of therapy to learn to believe that.

See where these judgements and presumptions can be unnecessarily hurtful? And flat out wrong...



csl7037 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 12:35:23 PM)

womaninchrist, you have to be way beyond the "average" woman's height to be a "skinny 14". I just found the averages from the CDC National Center for Health Statistics...
Women
Height (inches): 63.8
Weight (pounds): 163
Waist circumference (inches): 36.5


...that's 163 pounds for a woman less than 5'4" as the average in this country - that's just wrong! I'm 5'4" and a very average build/bone structure and 163 would just be horrific on me. I was close to that several years ago and I wasn't just a blob, I was miserable and not healthy by any measure. I'm just saying we can't use "averages" or what other people look like as any kind of excuse because, by and large, as a society, we're in horrible shape all around! If society is telling everyone to be thin why are we all fat? We can't use marketing and the extreme as a scapegoat and dismiss healthy as unrealistic.

People need to take get honest and take responsibility for their own health for a change.



Konstantinos -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 12:51:52 PM)

quote:

If society is telling everyone to be thin why are we all fat?


thing is just as stupid.

when i was fat... i got fat again now but for a reason.. anyway.. when i was fat it was simply that i didnt really care that much. and that i had no idea how to lose fat. it seemed way hard and i thought i had to starve myself. heck when i started weightlifting and dieting properly about 8 months ago i didnt even know there were protein, carbs and fats, i just knew there were some 2-3 things. i had no idea what any of them did. i didnt evne know the muscles body parts(biceps, triceps, quads etc.)

i admit that i probably like weightlifting heck of a lot more than the average person if they tried it but still, misinformation was something that kept me from being healthy throughout my teen years. oh and also i didnt like "healthy" foods. haha now i just eat everything.. healthy.. unhealthy.

there are also some things that especially young people dont realize. older people may realize the health problems but thats about it. they forget that they would get less tired, they would be able to do more stuff, they would have more energy, they would be more happy, they would accomplish more, live more and be happier.. what more do you want from exercize and a proper diet?

oh and you save money from going to the doctors. granted that money goes to more expensive food(meat/fish), and to the gym, but thats still way less money than going to doctors, staying in the hospital maybe for months which can take you out of your job and your family may depend on them.

and the last problem is that people are lazy. and some are.. weak.. to start soemthing and keep to it.

honestly though, most may not like exercizing as much as i do.. they should try it. but definitely everyone should try a proper diet at least for a couple weeks. the difference they will feel is amazing.

especially by reducing sugars.. part of why so many people(mostly women) are so tired is because of sugars



StephK -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 1:16:41 PM)

People do need to take responsibility for their health. Sometimes that is fighting doctors to get the proper treatment for underlying medical conditions. I've been taking care of a family member the past few months where she kept telling them what was going on, including a rapid weight gain but her doctor wouldn't listen. All he saw was a morbidly obese woman. She wasn't always that big. It was a symptom. Her problem was a very under active thyroid, common in women her age. She literally ballooned up to nearly 300 pounds. It wasn't her diet because she ate normal sized portions and fairly good nutrition. She looked like a lot of women look her age look, swollen, lethargic, uncomfortable and in dire need of some synthroid. Hypothyroidism can wreak havoc on the other organs of the body if left untreated, like heart disease. Once she found a good doctor who listened to her and found the problem, the weight has fallen off. As well as the depression and lethargy.



csl7037 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 1:27:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK

People do need to take responsibility for their health. Sometimes that is fighting doctors to get the proper treatment for underlying medical conditions. I've been taking care of a family member the past few months where she kept telling them what was going on, including a rapid weight gain but her doctor wouldn't listen. All he saw was a morbidly obese woman. She wasn't always that big. It was a symptom. Her problem was a very under active thyroid, common in women her age. She literally ballooned up to nearly 300 pounds. It wasn't her diet because she ate normal sized portions and fairly good nutrition. She looked like a lot of women look her age look, swollen, lethargic, uncomfortable and in dire need of some synthroid. Hypothyroidism can wreak havoc on the other organs of the body if left untreated, like heart disease. Once she found a good doctor who listed to her and found the problem, the weight has fallen off. As well as the depression and lethargy.


OK, so why all of a sudden do so may people have this thyroid issue? And the seasonal allergies and a million other ailments that it seems like everyone and their uncle is stuck to medication for that we'd never even heard of ten or twenty years ago? I'm sure there are lots of factors in this (we're little guinnea pigs for the pharmaceutical companies for starters). But this is something that really bothers me! It's not just the massive quantities of food that most Americans eat and the fact that most of it isn't even really anything that should be considered FOOD! There's got to be something severely wrong in our environment or something - maybe we're devolving or something. But, in general, the human race is in really dire straights, IMO.



StephK -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 1:52:08 PM)

From what I've read untreated hypothyroidism causes a cascade of illnesses because the other hormones and organs go into overdrive to compensate. When thyroid function is poor, usually due to a diet high in sugar and low in usable iodine, fat-soluble vitamins and other nutrients, the body floods the blood with cholesterol to heal tissues and produce protective steroids. Perhaps the rise in these symptoms goes back to all the "experts" deciding that a high carbohydrate, low fat diet was healthier. Remember carbohydrates are simply sugar when broken down to their basic chemical structure. Fat soluble vitamins are found in in fatty foods and iodine absorption can be disrupted by too much soy, broccoli and cabbage. Unfermented soy isn't a good thing and it's been dumped into many processed foods.

Lifestyle has made things worse in some cases but it's not necessarily the case in all situations. I really don't think people were as consumed with image and body shape conformity until recently with the advent of mass communication. I am not saying that all the overweight people have a medical issue but many do. Diet and exercise should always be the first means of correcting health issues if at all possible. I'm not a big pill pusher, in fact I think there is way too much but there are times when it is necessary.



Konstantinos -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 1:58:46 PM)

quote:

I am not saying that all the overweight people have a medical issue but many do.


i highly doubt it. i think most of them have the medical issues due to their past food choices/lack of exercize or the fact that they got overweight in the first place.

i think there are very few that actually have medical problems since birth and get fat due to them that they can do nothing about.

you see them only on TV... 300 pound 8 year olds.



womaninchrist -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 2:01:43 PM)

Actually, I'm only 5'6" but the Lord still saw fit to give me shoulders that'd make a linebacker happy and the rest of my frame follows suit. I have a very sturdily built large frame, around 150# of lean body mass, and what's just a plain athletic (and muscular) build. In no way do I really look like what society thinks a woman "should" look like - no matter what I try to do with my body (and trust me, I've tried - even the unhealthy stuff). But see, there are many people like me that just DO NOT fit chart or averages. Based on my weight and lean body mass, I could maybe lose 20 pounds. Based on a weight chart, based on averages, or on BMI, it's more like I should lose 50-70. That's the thing, beauty and weight standards attempt to make a one-size-fits-all standard when what's right varies quite a bit from one individual to the next. The thing about averages - both those of how we are and those of how we "should be" - is that there will ALWAYS be those whose numbers are above or below the stated number. So if the ideal/average/standard weight is 150 or the size is a 14, there's going to be many who will be healthy and quite a bit above or below that even if the numbers are restricted to those of a specific height range. Which means you can't really look at a person's size or weight and "know" if they're overweight - it's still at best guesswork unless you know a lot about them.

Sure, many ARE overweight. Sure, being overweight does carry health risks - esp. if you're also sedentary. It's just not something easily determined by casual observation, especially not since it's possible to be thin but carry lots of body fat.



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 2:20:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Konstantinos

quote:

I am not saying that all the overweight people have a medical issue but many do.


i highly doubt it. i think most of them have the medical issues due to their past food choices/lack of exercize or the fact that they got overweight in the first place.

i think there are very few that actually have medical problems since birth and get fat due to them that they can do nothing about.

you see them only on TV... 300 pound 8 year olds.

not all medical problems are from birth, but them being there later in life doesn't exclude them from being real medical problems. What about women who gain weight or size because of pregnancy? It's not like you can say from birth that it is going to happen. I know with me, it doesn't matter what I eat or don't eat...what I do or don't do activity wise...what I gain or don't gain during pregnancy, I still end every pregnancy being the same size. Doesn't matter what I started out being....or what I gained (or lost in some cases)...it's just what my body gets to after each pregnancy....medically that's what my body does. Medically also I can't lose weight while nursing....a lot of women have that problem. My body thinks obviously that the baby needs all that extra to stay there so the baby can get the goods from it.
Anyway...you can't just say that it isn't a medical issue if it isn't from birth....many medical issues come about because of just life in general (and are not related to unhealthy eating or inactivity)



StephK -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 2:26:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Konstantinos

quote:

I am not saying that all the overweight people have a medical issue but many do.


i highly doubt it. i think most of them have the medical issues due to their past food choices/lack of exercize or the fact that they got overweight in the first place.

i think there are very few that actually have medical problems since birth and get fat due to them that they can do nothing about.

you see them only on TV... 300 pound 8 year olds.


In some cases poor choices are the problem but you missed my point, many people followed the guidelines put out by the established medical field stating that a low fat, high carb diet was healthier when it hasn't been. Many people ruined their health when they did what they were supposed to do. Those severely obese kids are usually dealing with real endocrine issues. It's very rare for 8 year olds to be that overweight.

This particular study dealt with older women. Average age 54. Menopausal women are often not correctly diagnosed because everything is blamed on female problems. That's not the case all the time. Again, it's not a one size fits all problem with a one size fits all solution. One of the symptoms of an underactive thyroid is excessive cholesterol production which triggers heart disease. HELLO!

quote:

New research challenges the notion that you can be fat and fit, finding that being active can lower but not eliminate heart risks faced by heavy women.

"It doesn't take away the risk entirely. Weight still matters," said Dr. Martha Gulati, a heart specialist at Northwestern Memorial Hospital.

Previous research has gone back and forth on whether exercise or weight has a greater influence on heart disease risks.

The new study involving nearly 39,000 women helps sort out the combined effects of physical activity and body mass on women's chances of developing heart disease, said Gulati, who wasn't involved in the research.

The study by Harvard-affiliated researchers appears in Monday's Archives of Internal Medicine.

Participants were women aged 54 on average who filled out a questionnaire at the study's start detailing their height, weight and amount of weekly physical activity in the past year, including walking, jogging, bicycling and swimming. They were then tracked for about 11 years. Overall 948 women developed heart disease.



Konstantinos -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 3:09:01 PM)

quote:

not all medical problems are from birth, but them being there later in life doesn't exclude them from being real medical problems. What about women who gain weight or size because of pregnancy? It's not like you can say from birth that it is going to happen. I know with me, it doesn't matter what I eat or don't eat...what I do or don't do activity wise...what I gain or don't gain during pregnancy, I still end every pregnancy being the same size. Doesn't matter what I started out being....or what I gained (or lost in some cases)...it's just what my body gets to after each pregnancy....medically that's what my body does. Medically also I can't lose weight while nursing....a lot of women have that problem. My body thinks obviously that the baby needs all that extra to stay there so the baby can get the goods from it.
Anyway...you can't just say that it isn't a medical issue if it isn't from birth....many medical issues come about because of just life in general (and are not related to unhealthy eating or inactivity)


actually that is barely a "problem" and IS from birth. its in your genetics to gain fat when pregnant and when nursing.

and of course survival-wise the baby has priority, and hence your body will prioritize fat over muscle as a woman in general compared to a man and specially when pregnant/nursing. those arent really problems, they just happen and for a reason. unless you gain 150 pounds or something crazy like that during a pregnancy then its fine.. i think.

but honestly i really think in your case, in almost everyone's case, with the right exercizing and food you can still not gain that much fat in whatever condition(pregnancy in your case). its as simple as calorie intake vs calorie outtake. if you give the right stimuli to your body it will change its priorities, it will burn more calories, it will make more muscle instead of fat etc etc.

it just is much harder in your case.

in my case i had reached 105 kgs without really all that muscle since i wasnt active really. then i dropped to 92kgs. compared to someone who has never been fat i am more prone to gaining fat till i reach the body fat that i used to have when i was 105. that makes it a bit harder for me to keep fat off. a bit. in your case i bet its mcuh harder, but i doubt its impossible.

its impossible for someone that say.. his body cant burn fat cells(if there is such a thing), then hes bound to get only fatter and fatter every time he eats above maintenance.



Jenny-Fair -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 3:59:15 PM)

quote:

but honestly i really think in your case, in almost everyone's case, with the right exercizing and food you can still not gain that much fat in whatever condition(pregnancy in your case). its as simple as calorie intake vs calorie outtake.
A popular notion, but not a true one, especially in Sarah's case..your methods would result in death to her baby, and possibly to her.

It really isn't laziness. If anything, this study proves that--I mean, DUH, it's about ACTIVE OBESE WOMEN. If they are ACTIVE, then according to you they ought to be skinny, but not all of us are made that way.

As for being 5 foot 3 and a 'skinny' 14, I can relate. I am that height and was told by nutritionist that it would be extremely unhealthy to go below 150 lbs...for some that would be unrealistic, but for ME, and the way I am built, 150 is the bare minimum for health. And that would put me at about a size 14.



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 5:19:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair

quote:

but honestly i really think in your case, in almost everyone's case, with the right exercizing and food you can still not gain that much fat in whatever condition(pregnancy in your case). its as simple as calorie intake vs calorie outtake.
A popular notion, but not a true one, especially in Sarah's case..your methods would result in death to her baby, and possibly to her.

yeah exactly Jennie....exactly.
I have medical issues during pregnancy that you also aren't taking into account for in your idea of weight loss too. I was vegetarian during several pregnancies and for several years between them (couldn't even stand to go to the meat dept of the store)...I L-O-V-E veggies over any other food. I don't eat sugary things. I eat a well balanced diet and don't overindulge. I always get put on bed rest during pregnancy because of medical problems that show up (and no, they didn't show up when I was a baby, they only show up when I am pregnant....true medical problems, like my kidney's not functioning properly and my BP doubling when pregnant). I have gone anywhere from losing 20 lb total for a pregnancy (sick the whole time)...all the way to gaining over 100lbs (I stopped counting at that because it was too depressing)...and yet I still was the same size at the end of each pregnancy. I am on my fifth so far and still the same thing. It's how my body works....and no amount of me exercising more or eating less or eating different foods is going to change how my body reacts to pregnancy. Many many women are one way before ever having kids and the pregnancy changes their bodies after having them...it's normal and natural for that to happen.

quote:

As for being 5 foot 3 and a 'skinny' 14, I can relate. I am that height and was told by nutritionist that it would be extremely unhealthy to go below 150 lbs...for some that would be unrealistic, but for ME, and the way I am built, 150 is the bare minimum for health. And that would put me at about a size 14.

yup...me too...only I am 5'4". Health wise though, at a size 14, my body would be more like 160-170 for still being healthy and that size (which actually according to the BMI chart is still "obese"). I have very muscular legs (and a wide shoulder stance) and muscle tends to make you weigh more...no matter what I do my legs will always be muscular...and I can live with that. I also have a larger bone structure then some women because of my muscle structure. So what might be 30lb too much on someone else would be bordering on too little weight on someone with my body structure.



solo_soprano22 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 5:31:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair

quote:

but honestly i really think in your case, in almost everyone's case, with the right exercizing and food you can still not gain that much fat in whatever condition(pregnancy in your case). its as simple as calorie intake vs calorie outtake.
A popular notion, but not a true one, especially in Sarah's case..your methods would result in death to her baby, and possibly to her.

It really isn't laziness. If anything, this study proves that--I mean, DUH, it's about ACTIVE OBESE WOMEN. If they are ACTIVE, then according to you they ought to be skinny, but not all of us are made that way.



[sm=thumbsup.gif] I remember a while ago seeing some special... I think it might have been Dateline, that was talking about this subject. There was a considerably obese man on there, who jogged several miles a day and exercised...ate right, but remained obese. The doctors said he was healthy-- probably healthier than most skinny people... It happens.

My sis gets very sick when she's pregnant, but she eats better than anyone I know and still exercises as much as she can (she gets eclampsia and high bp). But she still gains "pregnancy fat." She actually can't seem to lose it now that she's done having children, and she's tried everything. (She still eats right and exercises.) Last I heard she was gonna get lipo. [8|] (You gotta know her to understand, lol.) And one of our high school teachers (we went to the same hs, her in the 80's and me in the 00's) was the same way... She gained maybe 50 lbs with her last pregnancy and never ever was able to get that off/keep from gaining it, despite the fact that she does everything right, still to this day. My sis was in her class when she was preg. with the last baby...she said toward the middle/end she could barely fit through the door frame....and the teacher herself has said that. [&:]



Konstantinos -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 5:46:23 PM)

quote:

DUH, it's about ACTIVE OBESE WOMEN. If they are ACTIVE, then according to you they ought to be skinny, but not all of us are made that way.


active is a very relative term. if all you do is jog every couple days 2 miles, you will only go so far. in fact 90% of the fat loss that you are gonna have with jogging will be due to the calories you'll burn while doing it.

there are many other ways to lose fat much more effectively. keep the metabolism increased, eat right, gain some muscle, it increases metabolism even further and they need more calories to be maintained than fat cells, do half the time sprints to increase heart beat rate, and half the other times jogging. and there are countless more benefits from weightlifting that i dont even bother to memorize cause they are too many every time i read a study on them.

if your metabolism drops, which is what happens if you dont eat enough and the right things, and only jog for example, you WILL plateau. and in fact chronic jogging makes you more prone to gain fat. its the calories that you burn while doing it that keep it low. jogging at a constant pace=1)burn calories while doing it 2) gives the body the stimuli that in the future you will probably have to do this often so it better save up on energy so it CAN do it. hence you are more prone to gaining fat instead of burning the food or gaining muscle instead. makes sense?

quote:

. I was vegetarian during several pregnancies and for several years between them (couldn't even stand to go to the meat dept of the store)...I L-O-V-E veggies over any other food.


losing fat is way, way hard without meat.

quote:

As for being 5 foot 3 and a 'skinny' 14, I can relate. I am that height and was told by nutritionist that it would be extremely unhealthy to go below 150 lbs...for some that would be unrealistic, but for ME, and the way I am built, 150 is the bare minimum for health. And that would put me at about a size 14.


thats understandable. thats what the whole endo/meso/ectomorph stuff is about.

the thing that matters most is the body fat percentage. i'd say women before getting pregnant are fine with one around 17% or so i think. men around 13-14%

quote:

I have very muscular legs (and a wide shoulder stance) and muscle tends to make you weigh more...no matter what I do my legs will always be muscular...and I can live with that.


how did you do that without meat?!?!

quote:

I remember a while ago seeing some special... I think it might have been Dateline, that was talking about this subject. There was a considerably obese man on there, who jogged several miles a day and exercised...ate right, but remained obese.


pretty much all superheavyweights in olympic weightlifting and powerlifting and even bodybuilding would probably show up as obese too on the BMI scale.



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 5:54:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Konstantinos


quote:

. I was vegetarian during several pregnancies and for several years between them (couldn't even stand to go to the meat dept of the store)...I L-O-V-E veggies over any other food.


losing fat is way, way hard without meat.


quote:

I have very muscular legs (and a wide shoulder stance) and muscle tends to make you weigh more...no matter what I do my legs will always be muscular...and I can live with that.


how did you do that without meat?!?!


you can eat a healthy diet of proteins/carbs/fats/whole grains without eating meat...and actually I tend to lose weight more easily when I don't eat meat (or rather when I didn't....now I am pregnant and crave meat again...I tend to hate it with the girls and like it again with the boys). I don't know why you think that meat itself is what causes muscles on you, but it's simply not true. I have muscular legs because that's how God made me....and that didn't change when I was a vegetarian. Neither did my bone structure.



Jenny-Fair -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 5:59:24 PM)

quote:

i'd say women before getting pregnant are fine with one around 17% or so i think.
A woman at that level may very well never GET pregnant since such a low body fat percentage can cause infertility! 21-32% is much better.



solo_soprano22 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 6:02:01 PM)

quote:

pretty much all superheavyweights in olympic weightlifting and powerlifting and even bodybuilding would probably show up as obese too on the BMI scale.


This man's was fat, not muscle (of course he had some muscle). He wasn't a bodybuilder; if he were, he wouldn't have been on the special. The special was about "fat" people who were healthier than most skinny people. That was the point of the show.



solo_soprano22 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 6:05:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair

quote:

i'd say women before getting pregnant are fine with one around 17% or so i think.
A woman at that level may very well never GET pregnant since such a low body fat percentage can cause infertility! 21-32% is much better.


True. The lowest a woman needs is 21% (from what I've seen). 17% is too low for a healthy female.



csl7037 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 6:15:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Konstantinos
but honestly i really think in your case, in almost everyone's case, with the right exercizing and food you can still not gain that much fat in whatever condition(pregnancy in your case). its as simple as calorie intake vs calorie outtake. if you give the right stimuli to your body it will change its priorities, it will burn more calories, it will make more muscle instead of fat etc etc.

it just is much harder in your case.


Konstantinos, you know oodles about fitness but nada about being pregnant. [;)] I do think almost everyone could fare quite well during pregnancy with great, extreme care taken in diet and exercise and ultra diligence. And some do. But some women are just made to be pregnant and some just are NOT. I was NOT! I blew up like a blob both times. I was so puffy it was just unreal too. I could've done much better, admittedly. I started out pretty well (at least the first time) but it's a crazy time in a person's life and I just got to a "when is this going to be over!??!" point and kinda gave in to it. Pregnancy does weird things to your body and mind, some moreso than others!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
As for being 5 foot 3 and a 'skinny' 14, I can relate. I am that height and was told by nutritionist that it would be extremely unhealthy to go below 150 lbs...for some that would be unrealistic, but for ME, and the way I am built, 150 is the bare minimum for health. And that would put me at about a size 14.


5'3" "unhealthy" below 150? I just find that so hard to comprehend. (I've been 5'3" and 150.) I'd agree that no one 5'3" should be under 115! That's my lowe limit - I'm nowhere near that now but I've been at 118 (as an adult) and knew I shouldn't have gone lower.



Jenny-Fair -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 6:28:54 PM)

quote:

5'3" "unhealthy" below 150? I just find that so hard to comprehend. (I've been 5'3" and 150.) I'd agree that no one 5'3" should be under 115! That's my lowe limit - I'm nowhere near that now but I've been at 118 (as an adult) and knew I shouldn't have gone lower.

Well, it's true, lol. I would not be healthy at less than 150. I have a lot of muscle, and very thick bones--for instance, I have to wear extra-large gloves to fit the width of my hands (which do not carry any excess fat!) but the fingers are always an inch too long, at the least. My firstborn has to wear extra large gloves to fig the length of his hands/fingers but they are too roomy the other direction. He has his dad's bone structure, not mine. I usually cannot wear storebought bracelets because my wrists are too thick--and they aren't chubby! When I wrap my right hand around my left wrist there is a large gap because I cannot reach. My feet are wide with a very high instep, and my hips--the bones themselves--are large and roomy. My knees are wide, my ankles are wide, my shoulders are wide...it's the way I am, and at 125 lbs I would be skin and bones, which is not healthy.

I don't mind being sturdily-built. It has served me well[:D] I am strong, I birth babies well, and I only can wish it hadn't taken me thirty years to realize that the socially acceptable figure type simply isn't realistic for most women, and that there is nothing wrong with MY figure.



csl7037 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 6:30:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2
I have very muscular legs (and a wide shoulder stance) and muscle tends to make you weigh more...no matter what I do my legs will always be muscular...and I can live with that. I also have a larger bone structure then some women because of my muscle structure. So what might be 30lb too much on someone else would be bordering on too little weight on someone with my body structure.[/color]


I've always had "thunder thighs" and wonder if it's from cheerleading in HS and just overdeveloping those "jumping muscles". When I first started working out again after my pregnancies, I lost a little weight but my legs just got HUGE! And I plateaued rather quickly. My diet was not even close to "clean" and I was just building muscle under fat basically. That's what made my legs big. It's really actually quite difficult for women to build significant muscle and it not also be covered in a good layer of fat without serious training and a near perfect diet. Unless there's an over-abundance of testosterone (natural or otherwise), women just will not have a great deal of muscle, in reality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
My sis gets very sick when she's pregnant, but she eats better than anyone I know and still exercises as much as she can (she gets eclampsia and high bp). But she still gains "pregnancy fat." She actually can't seem to lose it now that she's done having children, and she's tried everything. (She still eats right and exercises.)


She's buying into the "after kids, the only option is a tummy tuck" myth. It's not true. I promise she hasn't tried "everything". She just hasn't talked to the right people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Konstantinos
if your metabolism drops, which is what happens if you dont eat enough and the right things, and only jog for example, you WILL plateau. and in fact chronic jogging makes you more prone to gain fat. its the calories that you burn while doing it that keep it low. jogging at a constant pace=1)burn calories while doing it 2) gives the body the stimuli that in the future you will probably have to do this often so it better save up on energy so it CAN do it. hence you are more prone to gaining fat instead of burning the food or gaining muscle instead. makes sense?


Metabolism is the krux of the issue for women, especially as we age. And how do we keep the metabolism going? Say it with me now...Lift Weights! Lots of weights, heavy weights. Osteoporosis and the middle aged "spread" are just the first two pitfalls of aging for women. We lose muscle definition, metabolism crashes, weight packs on, bone density diminishes, we get fatter, we get brittle, we get slower, we get OLD! Not happening here! There's just so much bad bad info out there. Women desperately need to be lifting weights - real weights. Put down the 5#'ers and get serious. We have to protect the bones and maintain the metabolism or it's all downhill from there!

I'm sorry if I sound opinionated. I'm in and around the fitness industry basically 24/7 and there's just so much misinformation and misunderstanding out there. Even the "experts" have been telling women just really stupid stuff for years.



solo_soprano22 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 6:38:37 PM)

quote:

She's buying into the "after kids, the only option is a tummy tuck" myth. It's not true. I promise she hasn't tried "everything". She just hasn't talked to the right people.


I honestly think she has, but only because there are an awful lot of healthcare professionals in my family (she is one also)... and I can't think of much else as a future biologist that she hasn't done. She had her children a while ago. She's been trying for over a decade to lose the weight (off her stomach), but alas, it will not leave. She's tried everything known to man I believe and spent plenty of money for anything that might help, unless there is some esoteric herb that she hasn't tried. (She believes in herbs more than I do. Lol.) I think her C-sections did mess up her up immensely though, moreso than what they "normally" do. She still has issues from that that aren't normal, but maybe irreparable.



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 6:40:57 PM)

quote:

Women desperately need to be lifting weights - real weights.

LOL....true true!!! You said about the middle aged part...it could also be that with women especially at younger ages they tend to have babies and carry them around...then they get older and by about that age the babies aren't being carried anymore. Babies make for good weight lifting, that's for sure!!! They make you do it when your muscles scream that they don't want to anymore!!!



Jenny-Fair -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 6:47:28 PM)

C-sections DO cause irreperable harm and she may be chasing after a flat stomach that she will NEVER be able to have again. Lipo won't cure the muscle damage done in surgery.



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