Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (Full Version)

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WanServ -> Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (4/30/2008 9:55:44 AM)

Ben Stein didn't use the word tyrants to describe Darwinists
in positions of influence and authority, but he could have and should have.

His latest movie, "Expelled, No Intelligence Allowed"
is correct in its inderect and direct assertions and theme.

Darwinists who hold authority in Schools, Universities and Science Institutes
throughout NA play the role of tyrant very well, showintg no tolerance
for alternatives to their paradigms and dogma.

And no wonder!
Communists and Nazis were some of the most fanatical followers of
Charles Darwin.
Yes, Charles Darwin was also a racist who used the figleaf
of "science' and his so-called 'scientific theories' to justify
his racism.
Nuff said.



Nothingman -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (4/30/2008 10:17:38 AM)

sources?

btw, the legitimacy of the science of "darwinism" has nothing to do with what Darwin the man, his scientific theories, his personal views etc... So you've really said nothing, other than he's a racist, of which I'm waiting for some sources ...



essentialsaltes -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (4/30/2008 10:57:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WanServ
And no wonder!
Communists and Nazis were some of the most fanatical followers of
Charles Darwin.


The Soviets (for a time, anyway) rejected Darwinian evolution and genetics in favor of a more Lamarckian view promulgated by Lysenko. Far from being a science-led movement, Soviet communism sent plenty of scientists to the gulags or worse.

As for the Nazis, the only person they followed fanatically was Hitler. In any case, their belt buckles didn't say "Darwin mit uns".



gluadys -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (4/30/2008 10:59:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WanServ
And no wonder!
Communists and Nazis were some of the most fanatical followers of
Charles Darwin.


Apparently WanServ does not know history either.



Real_Solitude -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (4/30/2008 2:45:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WanServ
Yes, Charles Darwin was also a racist who used the figleaf
of "science' and his so-called 'scientific theories' to justify
his racism.


Just as he's ignorant that we don't judge a person by todays morality, but by that of their own time.

Unless you want to call Lincoln a racist as well.
"I will say then, that I am not nor have ever been in favor of bringing about in any way, the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not, nor have I ever been in favor of making voters of the negroes, or jurors, or qualifying them to hold office, or having them to marry with white people...there must be the position of superior and inferior, that I as much as any other man am in favor of the superior position being assigned to the white man."
~Charleston, Illinois on September 18, 1858. Lincoln

And that from the man that stopped slavery in America.



unclemonkey -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (4/30/2008 5:20:44 PM)

ORIGINAL:Real_Solitude
quote:

And that from the man that stopped slavery in America.

That’s some slick selective quoting.
Why did you delete the heart of Lincoln’s statement: “and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality.” – your cite (emphasis mine)

Prior to Darwin many believed physical differences between the races existed making some races superior to others. The explanatory power of Darwinian evolution provided “scientific support” for such belief.



drj11 -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (4/30/2008 6:22:18 PM)

Scathing opinion peice on Ben Stein from the national review. I think this is relevant here. For the entire thing, follow the link:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZGYwMzdjOWRmNGRhOWQ4MTQyZDMxNjNhYTU1YTE5Njk=

quote:


If I write with more feeling than usual here it is because I have just shipped off a review to an editor (for another magazine) of Gino Segrè’s new book about the history of quantum mechanics. It’s a good, if not very remarkable, book giving pen-portraits of the great players in physics during the 1920s and 1930s, and of their meetings and disagreements. Segrè, a particle physicist himself, who has been around for a while, knew some of these people personally, and of course heard many anecdotes from their intellectual descendants. It's a “warm” book, full of feeling for the scientists and their magnificent enterprise, struggling with some of the most difficult problems the human intellect has ever confronted, striving with all their powers to understand what can barely be understood.

Gino Segrè’s book — and, of course, hundreds like it (I have, ahem, dabbled myself) brings to us a feeling for what the scientific endeavor is like, and how painfully its triumphs are won, with what sweat and tears. Our scientific theories are the crowning adornments of our civilization, towering monuments of intellectual effort, built from untold millions of hours of observation, measurement, classification, discussion, and deliberation. This is quite apart from their wonderful utility — from the light, heat, and mobility they give us, the drugs and the gadgets and the media. (A “thank you” wouldn’t go amiss.) Simply as intellectual constructs, our well-established scientific theories are awe-inspiring.

And now here is Ben Stein, sneering and scoffing at Darwin, a man who spent decades observing and pondering the natural world — that world Stein glimpses through the window of his automobile now and then, when he’s not chattering into his cell phone. Stein claims to be doing it in the name of an alternative theory of the origin of species: Yet no such alternative theory has ever been presented, nor is one presented in the movie, nor even hinted at. There is only a gaggle of fools and fraudsters, gaping and pointing like Apaches on seeing their first locomotive: “Look! It moves! There must be a ghost inside making it move!”

The “intelligent design” hoax is not merely non-science, nor even merely anti-science; it is anti-civilization. It is an appeal to barbarism, to the sensibilities of those Apaches, made by people who lack the imaginative power to know the horrors of true barbarism. (A thing that cannot be said of Darwin. See Chapter X of Voyage of the Beagle.)

And yes: When our greatest achievements are blamed for our greatest moral failures, that is a blood libel against Western civilization itself. What next, Ben? Johann Sebastian Bach ran a slave-trading enterprise on the side? Kepler started the Thirty Years War? Tolstoy instigated the Kishinev Pogrom? Dante was a bag-man for the Golden Horde? Why not go smash a few windows in Chartres Cathedral, Ben? Break wind in a chamber-music concert? Splash some red paint around in the Uffizi? Which other of our civilizational achievements would you like to sneer at? What else from what Waugh called “the work of centuries” would you like to “abandon … for sentimental qualms”? You call yourself a conservative? Feugh!



Jhud -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (4/30/2008 6:26:11 PM)

The money quote from this 'review':

"So what’s going on here with this stupid Expelled movie? No, I haven’t seen the dang thing."

[sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif]



drj11 -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (4/30/2008 6:28:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

The money quote from this 'review':

"So what’s going on here with this stupid Expelled movie? No, I haven’t seen the dang thing."

[sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif]


Have you watched any of Stien's barrage of TV interviews? You don't need to see Expelled to realize he has become an imbecile.

He's becoming a Jewish Mel Gibson.. Sailing right on over the deep end.



Jhud -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (4/30/2008 6:31:50 PM)

quote:

Have you watched any of Stien's barrage of TV interviews? You don't need to see Expelled to realize he has become an imbecile.

He's becoming a Jewish Mel Gibson..


Heck why watch any movie before we review it? Or read the book? Or know anything about the theory before we dismiss it?

Derbyshire (and apparently yourself if you agree with him) simply confirms the primary thesis of Expelled; evolutionist's opinions of ID have nothing to do with them actually knowing anything about it.

And that is the definition of irrationality.



essentialsaltes -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (4/30/2008 7:06:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: unclemonkey

ORIGINAL:Real_Solitude
quote:

And that from the man that stopped slavery in America.

That’s some slick selective quoting.
Why did you delete the heart of Lincoln’s statement: “and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality.” – your cite (emphasis mine)

Prior to Darwin many believed physical differences between the races existed making some races superior to others. The explanatory power of Darwinian evolution provided “scientific support” for such belief.


Here you can see how powerful a force Darwinian evolution is. It made Lincoln say something awful a year before On the Origin of Species was even published.



drj11 -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (4/30/2008 7:44:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

Have you watched any of Stien's barrage of TV interviews? You don't need to see Expelled to realize he has become an imbecile.

He's becoming a Jewish Mel Gibson..


Heck why watch any movie before we review it? Or read the book? Or know anything about the theory before we dismiss it?

Derbyshire (and apparently yourself if you agree with him) simply confirms the primary thesis of Expelled; evolutionist's opinions of ID have nothing to do with them actually knowing anything about it.

And that is the definition of irrationality.


The article was more on ID in general and Ben Stein, not so much the movie...

Besides... like I said.. you just have to watch a few of the interviews with Ben Stein lately to see he is a few beers short of a six pack.

"That's where science leads you... science leads you to killing people." - Ben Stein



Jhud -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (4/30/2008 10:42:18 PM)

quote:

The article was more on ID in general and Ben Stein, not so much the movie...

Besides... like I said.. you just have to watch a few of the interviews with Ben Stein lately to see he is a few beers short of a six pack.


Yes, well, its fairly well established at this point evolutionists only think people who don't question them have anything worthwhile to say, so comments like this can generally be ignored.



Boofhead -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (5/1/2008 6:09:11 AM)

quote:



sources?



http://www.google.com

That is an excellent website that has a wealth of information at your finger tips.

Honestly, what 'sources' do you wish for someone to put up? Rain falls after clouds become heavily saturated with water vapour to the point that gravity starts becoming a driving factor. The colour of the sky is blue. Do you wish for sources on these also? It could be wrong, but it is well known. I am guessing by these type of replies, one is only trying to find a lever to discredit the author of the OP by scrutinising the information provided.



drj11 -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (5/1/2008 7:15:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Boofhead

quote:



sources?



http://www.google.com

That is an excellent website that has a wealth of information at your finger tips.

Honestly, what 'sources' do you wish for someone to put up? Rain falls after clouds become heavily saturated with water vapour to the point that gravity starts becoming a driving factor. The colour of the sky is blue. Do you wish for sources on these also? It could be wrong, but it is well known. I am guessing by these type of replies, one is only trying to find a lever to discredit the author of the OP by scrutinising the information provided.


You do know that Hitler was a Christian, and believed he was acting "in the name of God", when he started all that madness, right? Through Christianity and the Christian German population, he was able to create a climate of extreme anti-semitism. So you could really say Hitler and the Nazi's were also followers of Christ. That would be about as accurate as saying they were followers of "Darwin". If your going to condemn Darwinism then you better get busy condemning Christianity in this case as well.

As anyone can tell you, Hitler's view of Darwinism, if indeed thats where any of his ideas came from, were as warped and twisted as his views of Christianity, which he abused to no end. But go ahead... blame the belief system and the science instead of blaming the man behind it all.



waitingforreturn -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (5/1/2008 8:43:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drj11

quote:

ORIGINAL: Boofhead

quote:



sources?



http://www.google.com

That is an excellent website that has a wealth of information at your finger tips.

Honestly, what 'sources' do you wish for someone to put up? Rain falls after clouds become heavily saturated with water vapour to the point that gravity starts becoming a driving factor. The colour of the sky is blue. Do you wish for sources on these also? It could be wrong, but it is well known. I am guessing by these type of replies, one is only trying to find a lever to discredit the author of the OP by scrutinising the information provided.


You do know that Hitler was a Christian, and believed he was acting "in the name of God", when he started all that madness, right? Through Christianity and the Christian German population, he was able to create a climate of extreme anti-semitism. So you could really say Hitler and the Nazi's were also followers of Christ. That would be about as accurate as saying they were followers of "Darwin". If your going to condemn Darwinism then you better get busy condemning Christianity in this case as well.

As anyone can tell you, Hitler's view of Darwinism, if indeed thats where any of his ideas came from, were as warped and twisted as his views of Christianity, which he abused to no end. But go ahead... blame the belief system and the science instead of blaming the man behind it all.


Wrong. A "christian" is a follower of Christ. Do you think he was? Murdering 7 million? What one claims to be, and actually are, are 2 different things.
He WAS a Darwinist....to the extreme. And he was just helping "evolution" along. It is an ugly unGodly evil theory that makes human life useless.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (5/1/2008 9:20:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: unclemonkey
The explanatory power of Darwinian evolution provided “scientific support” for such belief.

This was not Darwin's fault, nor was so-called "social Darwinism." It is illogical to make Darwin take responsibility for how other people misapplied his ideas.

As for Ben Stein, he's not a scientist; therefore I don't give two hoots about his movie. Mel Gibson may just as well have made it, or Adam Sandler for that matter.
I read what it's about, and it's no big deal.



essentialsaltes -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (5/1/2008 10:18:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: waitingforreturn

He WAS a Darwinist....to the extreme. And he was just helping "evolution" along. It is an ugly unGodly evil theory that makes human life useless.


Darwin is mentioned zero times in Mein Kampf. There is only the faintest allusion to biological evolution. On the other hand, he writes:

"Anyhow, the Jew has attained the ends he desired. Catholics and Protestants are fighting with one another to their hearts' content, while the enemy of Aryan humanity and all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve."

"The two Christian denominations look on with indifference at the profanation and destruction of a noble and unique creature who was given to the world as a gift of God's grace. For the future of the world, however, it does not matter which of the two triumphs over the other, the Catholic or the Protestant. But it does matter whether Aryan humanity survives or perishes. And yet the two Christian denominations are not contending against the destroyer of Aryan humanity but are trying to destroy one another. Everybody who has the right kind of feeling for his country is solemnly bound, each within his own denomination, to see to it that he is not constantly talking about the Will of God merely from the lips but that in actual fact he fulfils the Will of God and does not allow God's handiwork to be debased. For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties. Whoever destroys His work wages war against God's Creation and God's Will."

Hitler's antisemitism was rooted in religious and racial bigotry (and economic scapegoating). What's more, his racial attitudes seem solidly rooted in creationism.

People can argue endlessly about what Hitler 'really believed', but regardless... this is what Hitler was selling to the German people in his rise to power, and very unfortunately, they were largely willing to buy into it.



jbow -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (5/1/2008 10:27:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

quote:

ORIGINAL: unclemonkey
The explanatory power of Darwinian evolution provided “scientific support” for such belief.

This was not Darwin's fault, nor was so-called "social Darwinism." It is illogical to make Darwin take responsibility for how other people misapplied his ideas.

As for Ben Stein, he's not a scientist; therefore I don't give two hoots about his movie. Mel Gibson may just as well have made it, or Adam Sandler for that matter.
I read what it's about, and it's no big deal.


Again, the idea that only a scientist and criticize a scientist is completely weird. It is a way to avoid discussion. It is like saying that only a chef can criticize another chefs cooking. It is foolishness.

I am really glad that Ben has done something to bring the farse of evolution and the tactics of evolutionists into the light. All of evolution theory is based solely on assumptions, it is a faith based system that is in place because men do not want t acknowledge their creator, the Lord Jesus. Evolution sceince is completely flawed. They can offer no missing link, no instance of any species evolving into another, no fossils of such a thing. Carbon 14 dating does not work on anything over a few thousand years old, unless you use assmuptions. The scientist, Dr. Willard Libby, who developed C14 dating admitted that after 30,000 years C14 and C12 would be in a steady state of equilibrium with each other BUT... there is a problem, there is more than a 25% difference between the two.

We have been taught a lie and our children are being taught a lie. Our God, our saviour created this world, He created it mature, just like Adam, just like the plants and the animals, He didn't plant seed, He created a mature universe.

He created the earth and in fact, the whole universe as a place for man. His creation. Man created in the image of God, to have dominion over creation. What possible reason would God have for creating the universe 4.5 billion years ago if man were the central reason for creation?

I choose to believe God over ungodly men. He said that He did it in six days and much evidence points to just that... unless you choose to believe tha assumptions of men who do not believe in God and who do not believe His word. Do you think that a God who can create all we see, all we feel and al we know, Who can create out of nothing the universe... do you think that He is incapable of getting a book to us with the truth in it? Do you think He cannot keep fables out of a book? Not me, I believe His word.

Evolutionary scientists supress the truth in unrighteousness. They consistantly throw out test results that do not support their assumptions that the universe is billions of years old because they are obviously erronious... this is science? NASA did this years ago when they dated the moon rocks. First they said that they were 4 to 4.5 billion years old then a few years later they published that the rocks were 3 to 5.5 billion years old. When questioned, by Jobe Martin, on this range of dates and whether the range was any greater, (since trhey had changed it), a NASA geologist said that the range was actually between a few thousand years and 20 billion years however since they, NASA, know that the moon is between 3 and 4.5 billion years old they published those numbers... they did not want to confuse the public...

Mt. Saint Helens... in eleven years after the eruption 600' of strata formed. Of course geologists have taught that this takes hundreds of thousands of years, but it took eleven. There were trees deposited in Spirit lake, roots down, at different levels just like petrified forests on other places that "science" tells us are millions of years old... but there they are in Spirit lake randomly placed, like a forest. Some are buried in the sediment up their trunks and some just a few feet. Spirit lake is showing a fossil forest in production and it is happening very fast.

Science based on assumptions is not science...

Remember an equation with more than one variable cannot be solved and therefore cannot be proved. That is the problem with evolutionary science, it is not provable, it is not science, it is a faith based system of assumptions. The assumption determines the conclusion... that is bad science, if science at all.

J



Jhud -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (5/1/2008 11:18:55 AM)

Here is a nice little propaganda film from the Nazi era that sums up preety well what the basis for the thought process was...and it sure wasn't Christianity.

Incidentally, this was a worldwide phenomenon at the time, and the roots can be traced directly back to Darwin - his own family in fact.



essentialsaltes -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (5/1/2008 12:21:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbow
They can offer no missing link, no instance of any species evolving into another, no fossils of such a thing.


Tiktaalik is a 'missing link', a fossil embodying the transition of a fish species into land-dwelling tetrapod species.

quote:

Carbon 14 dating does not work on anything over a few thousand years old, unless you use assmuptions.


Radiocarbon dating does not work on anything, unless you use assumptions. The same assumptions are used to date 2000 year old mummy linen as are used to date 30,000 year old cave paintings.

quote:

The scientist, Dr. Willard Libby, who developed C14 dating admitted that after 30,000 years C14 and C12 would be in a steady state of equilibrium with each other BUT... there is a problem, there is more than a 25% difference between the two.


I don't even know what you're trying to say here.

quote:

I choose to believe God over ungodly men. He said that He did it in six days and much evidence points to just that... unless you choose to believe tha assumptions of men who do not believe in God and who do not believe His word.


Plenty of scientist Christians use the same assumptions and come to the same conclusions.

quote:

NASA did this years ago when they dated the moon rocks. First they said that they were 4 to 4.5 billion years old then a few years later they published that the rocks were 3 to 5.5 billion years old. When questioned, by Jobe Martin, on this range of dates and whether the range was any greater, (since trhey had changed it), a NASA geologist said that the range was actually between a few thousand years and 20 billion years however since they, NASA, know that the moon is between 3 and 4.5 billion years old they published those numbers... they did not want to confuse the public...


Do you have any evidence for this? This is hearsay at best. Surely, Jobe Martin could have named this duplicitous scientist in his book, in order to expose him.

quote:

Mt. Saint Helens... in eleven years after the eruption 600' of strata formed. Of course geologists have taught that this takes hundreds of thousands of years, but it took eleven.


Vulcanism is a lot different from sedimentary rock. Geologists do not think volcanic flows require hundreds of thousands of years.

quote:

Science based on assumptions is not science...


There's no other kind of science. You can't even do high school geometry without assumptions.

quote:

Remember an equation with more than one variable cannot be solved and therefore cannot be proved.


So much for Newton's 2nd Law.



drj11 -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (5/1/2008 12:24:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

Here is a nice little propaganda film from the Nazi era that sums up preety well what the basis for the thought process was...and it sure wasn't Christianity.

Incidentally, this was a worldwide phenomenon at the time, and the roots can be traced directly back to Darwin - his own family in fact.


All it takes is a quick little grep through Mein Kampf and you will find all sorts of references to why he felt it was God's will to purge the Jews from Germany. You can also see his thoughts on 'natural selection', which like essentialsaltes pointed out, resembles Lamarckism and not really Darwinian natural selection.

Another choice quote from Hitler:
"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who - God's truth! - was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. ...And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exploited."

Anyways... this is all really besides the point. Evolution != Nazi's but we all know thats what many would like us to think. Evolution does also not mean, 'no morality', or we have to live in a social darwinistic society. Continued attempts to conflate evolution with all this nonsense is ridiculous... you should know better Jhud... I think the OP actually fell for it hook line and sinker though, which truly is sad. Pump someone up with enough fear and they will believe anything.

Makes you wonder what some people here might have thought had they been in Nazi germany and just listened to the speech that quote came from. Also makes you wonder where this whole train of thought will end up leading some Christians. The anti-darwinist movement seems to be escalating in its vitriol.. just how far will the end up taking it?



Jhud -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (5/1/2008 12:36:26 PM)

quote:

All it takes is a quick little grep through Mein Kampf and you will find all sorts of references to why he felt it was God's will to purge the Jews from Germany. You can also see his thoughts on 'natural selection', which like essentialsaltes pointed out, resembles Lamarckism and not really Darwinian natural selection.

Another choice quote from Hitler:
"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who - God's truth! - was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. ...And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exploited."

Anyways... this is all really besides the point. Evolution != Nazi's but we all know thats what many would like us to think. Evolution does also not mean, 'no morality', or we have to live in a social darwinistic society. Continued attempts to conflate evolution with all this nonsense is ridiculous... you should know better Jhud... I think the OP actually fell for it hook line and sinker though, which truly is sad. Pump someone up with enough fear and they will believe anything.



Well, there is no doubt Hitler employed whatever he could to justify his actions in the eyes of the German people; but their is equally no doubt that eugenics was a product of evolutionary thought, and it's worldwide adoption by the scientific community was a product of the fact that it was considered sound science based on an evolutionary framework. You can harp about Hitler all you want, but this fact is undeniable, and for evolutionists to play it down now some 60 years after it's tragic consequences should frighten all thoughtful people.

quote:

Makes you wonder what some people here might have thought had they been in Nazi germany and just listened to the speech that quote came from.


Well, it's notable that most of those who resisted in Germany, and many other places (Bonhoffer, von Stauffenberg, Corrie ten Boom , etc) did so based on their Christian religious beliefs; if Dawkins et. al. had their way, no such resistance would have existed.



drj11 -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (5/1/2008 12:47:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud
Well, there is no doubt Hitler employed whatever he could to justify his actions in the eyes of the German people; but their is equally no doubt that eugenics was a product of evolutionary thought, and it's worldwide adoption by the scientific community was a product of the fact that it was considered sound science based on an evolutionary framework. You can harp about Hitler all you want, but this fact is undeniable, and for evolutionists to play it down now some 60 years after it's tragic consequences should frighten all thoughtful people.


Do they really play it down? Or are they put into the position of having to defend themselves from the likes of the Dr James Kennedy's, Ken Ham's as well as creationists the world over who go around telling people evolution kills jews, its the work of satan etc and the holocaust is all their fault and on and on?

Cmon... look at the OP here... proving my point.



Jhud -> RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. (5/1/2008 12:52:27 PM)

quote:

Do they really play it down? Or are they put into the position of having to defend themselves from the likes of the Dr James Kennedy's, Ken Ham's as well as creationists the world over who go around telling people evolution kills jews, its the work of satan etc and the holocaust is all their fault and on and on?

Cmon... look at the OP here... proving my point.


They don't just play it down, they attempt to deny it all together. But you can't deny the relationship between eugenics and Darwin, though many are horribly ignorant on the subject.



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