RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (Full Version)

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Lizahana -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 10:44:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: davemiller7

Might as well save your breath, _jjp_. He (1dblthnk02) won't listen to common sense. He apparently drank the global warming Kool Aid, along with lots of other socialist concoctions.
-Dave



He, and I, and hundreds of countries around the globe and the EPA, the Bush Admin, NASA, the NOAA, the UN, the IPCC, hundreds of companies across the globe, billions of people across the globe, yeah, we all apparently drank some 'koolaid' - hmmm....NOT!

Peace and God bless,



lightshineon -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 12:21:22 PM)

I am good Liz, thank you. In my post, I was maybe was a little unclear I apologize. No it is not just Wal-Mart, Home Depot does not sell the aresol version anymore either. Many places I buy from have made green changes with products, forcing us to buy what they think, or the companies who make these products think we should or should not have. I disapprove of this strongly. Thank You, and many, many, blessings to you today.[:D]
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana

I'm great - thank you - how are you?

Sorry - I didn't know that's what you meant. So, you're asking why Walmart is taking dictator like action? Because, it sounds like they still are allowing your product to be sold (at Home Depot - in an even more concentrated form); so it 'sounds' like it's Walmart that you are saying is the dictator? Just trying to understand.

Thanks, Peace and God bless,

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Dear Liz, how are you today? I thank you for reply, though, my intent was not to ask for reaserch, I know why stores have pulled some cleaning products and a paint cleaner ( spray version off of the shelf) . It is the enviroment, going green, IMHO PC, and panic. One product I named was Goof-OFF, a cleaning solevent used infrequently, but necessary if a paint spills ( work alot with kids arts and crafts). Wal-mart stopped carrying it, along with oil based paints ( Big cans for household painting) because not enviromental friendly[8|] I can co to Home Depot, and buy Goof OFF in a can, very concentrated, pour out of can version. Children, and chemicaly sensistive people cannot be around it at all. I wear gloves and mask, with both spray and concentrate ( concentrate much stronger fumes) and room has to be well ventilated, and child or people free. This product, though smelly is so necessary for carpet, table paint spills, gum on floor. I am strange the product, smells good to me but burns brain cells, kind of like spray paint. There are other mild forms of cleaning solvents I use, stores have been taken off of shelves. I like to clean my home, and it slightly bothers me I cannot be pro-choice in this matter. So my intent with my Comment/question, was not about people reaserching this situation for me, but asking what people thought of this dictator like action, and if anyone else noticed these products being pulled, or products they use, like and are forced because of PC, and Global warming not to have access to now. Blessing Liz, Light
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

I wish someone would comment about products I and others find useful being taken off the shelf, because of the green thing. Is this fair in your opinion?


lightshineon,

I am not sure about the products you speak of - can you post a list of them? Did they, by chance, pull them off the shelves because the chemicals can be harmful to kids? I mean, can't you research this yourself via the internet? I don't mean to be mean or disrespectful in any way, but, it's pretty easy to research this type of thing on the internet.

Peace and God bless,





Lizahana -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 1:51:10 PM)

Hmmm...I guess I'm still not following you. I just did a google search on 'goof off' (made by Valspar), and I can buy the spray and aerosol on-line with free shipping from a mutlitude of stores including amazon.com. I have never used it before myself. There are eco-friendly sprays out there like 'Ready-Strip Spray' that you can also buy on-line.

I guess I don't understand that, you can buy the aforementioned without even leaving your house - so, what is the problem? I'm sorry - I'm just trying to understand.

Peace and God bless,

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

I am good Liz, thank you. In my post, I was maybe was a little unclear I apologize. No it is not just Wal-Mart, Home Depot does not sell the aresol version anymore either. Many places I buy from have made green changes with products, forcing us to buy what they think, or the companies who make these products think we should or should not have. I disapprove of this strongly. Thank You, and many, many, blessings to you today.[:D]
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana

I'm great - thank you - how are you?

Sorry - I didn't know that's what you meant. So, you're asking why Walmart is taking dictator like action? Because, it sounds like they still are allowing your product to be sold (at Home Depot - in an even more concentrated form); so it 'sounds' like it's Walmart that you are saying is the dictator? Just trying to understand.

Thanks, Peace and God bless,

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Dear Liz, how are you today? I thank you for reply, though, my intent was not to ask for reaserch, I know why stores have pulled some cleaning products and a paint cleaner ( spray version off of the shelf) . It is the enviroment, going green, IMHO PC, and panic. One product I named was Goof-OFF, a cleaning solevent used infrequently, but necessary if a paint spills ( work alot with kids arts and crafts). Wal-mart stopped carrying it, along with oil based paints ( Big cans for household painting) because not enviromental friendly[8|] I can co to Home Depot, and buy Goof OFF in a can, very concentrated, pour out of can version. Children, and chemicaly sensistive people cannot be around it at all. I wear gloves and mask, with both spray and concentrate ( concentrate much stronger fumes) and room has to be well ventilated, and child or people free. This product, though smelly is so necessary for carpet, table paint spills, gum on floor. I am strange the product, smells good to me but burns brain cells, kind of like spray paint. There are other mild forms of cleaning solvents I use, stores have been taken off of shelves. I like to clean my home, and it slightly bothers me I cannot be pro-choice in this matter. So my intent with my Comment/question, was not about people reaserching this situation for me, but asking what people thought of this dictator like action, and if anyone else noticed these products being pulled, or products they use, like and are forced because of PC, and Global warming not to have access to now. Blessing Liz, Light
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

I wish someone would comment about products I and others find useful being taken off the shelf, because of the green thing. Is this fair in your opinion?


lightshineon,

I am not sure about the products you speak of - can you post a list of them? Did they, by chance, pull them off the shelves because the chemicals can be harmful to kids? I mean, can't you research this yourself via the internet? I don't mean to be mean or disrespectful in any way, but, it's pretty easy to research this type of thing on the internet.

Peace and God bless,






rhippie -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 2:30:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

But God is irrelevant to the empirical evidence supporting global warming.


Sorry to disagree (not really[:D]) but God is not irrelevant to anything; if He were then He wouldn't be God (not the lack of exclamation points although I was sorely tempted to insert them)



lightshineon -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 3:29:26 PM)

Liz, Hi. I live in a small town, and maybe I might need it then. Goof-Off was just an example of things, I feel, I guess it stores forcing the "Green view on" The spray is not sold in stores here anymore, on the goof-off, like I said it is something, I wish we had pro choice on . In a year they will not sell anything but swirly lights ( cannot think of name), that is wrong. Blessings
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana

Hmmm...I guess I'm still not following you. I just did a google search on 'goof off' (made by Valspar), and I can buy the spray and aerosol on-line with free shipping from a mutlitude of stores including amazon.com. I have never used it before myself. There are eco-friendly sprays out there like 'Ready-Strip Spray' that you can also buy on-line.

I guess I don't understand that, you can buy the aforementioned without even leaving your house - so, what is the problem? I'm sorry - I'm just trying to understand.

Peace and God bless,

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

I am good Liz, thank you. In my post, I was maybe was a little unclear I apologize. No it is not just Wal-Mart, Home Depot does not sell the aresol version anymore either. Many places I buy from have made green changes with products, forcing us to buy what they think, or the companies who make these products think we should or should not have. I disapprove of this strongly. Thank You, and many, many, blessings to you today.[:D]
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana

I'm great - thank you - how are you?

Sorry - I didn't know that's what you meant. So, you're asking why Walmart is taking dictator like action? Because, it sounds like they still are allowing your product to be sold (at Home Depot - in an even more concentrated form); so it 'sounds' like it's Walmart that you are saying is the dictator? Just trying to understand.

Thanks, Peace and God bless,

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Dear Liz, how are you today? I thank you for reply, though, my intent was not to ask for reaserch, I know why stores have pulled some cleaning products and a paint cleaner ( spray version off of the shelf) . It is the enviroment, going green, IMHO PC, and panic. One product I named was Goof-OFF, a cleaning solevent used infrequently, but necessary if a paint spills ( work alot with kids arts and crafts). Wal-mart stopped carrying it, along with oil based paints ( Big cans for household painting) because not enviromental friendly[8|] I can co to Home Depot, and buy Goof OFF in a can, very concentrated, pour out of can version. Children, and chemicaly sensistive people cannot be around it at all. I wear gloves and mask, with both spray and concentrate ( concentrate much stronger fumes) and room has to be well ventilated, and child or people free. This product, though smelly is so necessary for carpet, table paint spills, gum on floor. I am strange the product, smells good to me but burns brain cells, kind of like spray paint. There are other mild forms of cleaning solvents I use, stores have been taken off of shelves. I like to clean my home, and it slightly bothers me I cannot be pro-choice in this matter. So my intent with my Comment/question, was not about people reaserching this situation for me, but asking what people thought of this dictator like action, and if anyone else noticed these products being pulled, or products they use, like and are forced because of PC, and Global warming not to have access to now. Blessing Liz, Light
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

I wish someone would comment about products I and others find useful being taken off the shelf, because of the green thing. Is this fair in your opinion?


lightshineon,

I am not sure about the products you speak of - can you post a list of them? Did they, by chance, pull them off the shelves because the chemicals can be harmful to kids? I mean, can't you research this yourself via the internet? I don't mean to be mean or disrespectful in any way, but, it's pretty easy to research this type of thing on the internet.

Peace and God bless,







1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 3:30:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhippie
Sorry to disagree (not really) but God is not irrelevant to anything; if He were then He wouldn't be God

In a theological discussion, you would be right on target. However, in a discussion based soley on empirical evidence, God apparently will not deign to be fingerprinted, so to speak.

quote:

(not the lack of exclamation points although I was sorely tempted to insert them)

Don't let me cramp your style . . .



Lizahana -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 3:51:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Liz, Hi. I live in a small town, and maybe I might need it then. Goof-Off was just an example of things, I feel, I guess it stores forcing the "Green view on" The spray is not sold in stores here anymore, on the goof-off, like I said it is something, I wish we had pro choice on . In a year they will not sell anything but swirly lights ( cannot think of name), that is wrong. Blessings


I'm not entirely sure of the products you're talking about - you gave me one: Valspar Goof-off - like I said, I found not only the aerosol, but the spray that you can buy online from a variety of vendors, including amazon. You have internet service, so why don't you just buy it online? I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't understand why you can't buy these products online when they sell them a plenty on line.

Peace and God bless,



_jjp_ -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 7:23:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
I did. Apparently you didn't understand.


No you side stepped the question I asked, set up a straw man and set it on fire in hopes that no one would notice.



_jjp_ -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 7:35:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana
Sorry - missed it. jjp - even at 1 degrees F - the change is significant, so what is your point? The red flag that is going up to the UN, the IPCC, NASA, NOAA, the EPA is that this change in temperature, even at one degrees F - happened quickly due to the contribution to it by humans. And even if we do something, we're still looking at another increase of:



This from a site that is backing the claims of global warming.

quote:

Greenland ice cores indicate one spike in which the area's surface temperature increased by 15 degrees Fahrenheit (9 degrees Celsius) in just 10 years.


They also state that the earth has experienced warmer AND colder times as well. So let me get this straight, temperatures HAVE risen faster in the past, it HAS been both warmer and colder in the past BUT somehow this miniscule rate (in comparison to 15 degrees over a much shorter span) of 1 degree in decades is somehow an anomaly? Climate CYCLES PERIOD!!!!



lightshineon -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 8:59:33 PM)

LIZ, why can I not buy it in stores?



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 9:07:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: _jjp_
No you side stepped the question I asked, set up a straw man and set it on fire in hopes that no one would notice.

What question? You stated that I have no argument other than "I am right" when I told you that evidence of past cyclical warming and cooling trends were being misinterpreted.
Where is the question?

quote:

So let me get this straight, temperatures HAVE risen faster in the past, it HAS been both warmer and colder in the past BUT somehow this miniscule rate (in comparison to 15 degrees over a much shorter span) of 1 degree in decades is somehow an anomaly?

The current trend coincides exactly with increased gaseous emissions, particularly CO2, that are a byproduct of the Industrial Age and deforestation. To not even consider connecting the two is pure denial at the very least.

quote:

Climate CYCLES PERIOD!!!!

_jjp_, what fuels your sadly desperate need to dismiss global warming as a likely result of manmade emissions in the atmosphere?



_jjp_ -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 9:23:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02


What question? You stated that I have no argument other than "I am right" when I told you that evidence of past cyclical warming and cooling trends were being misinterpreted.
Where is the question?
Please try to follow a train of thought please. I asked you "Can you deny that one who is trained in thermodynamics and fluids would be more able to decipher the data from a thermodynamic study of the climate? " to which you began your straw man arguement

quote:


The current trend coincides exactly with increased gaseous emissions, particularly CO2, that are a byproduct of the Industrial Age and deforestation. To not even consider connecting the two is pure denial at the very least


Ok first off NOWHERE have i claimed that humans haven't added CO2 to the equation. What i have pointed out is that THIS IS NOT AN ANOMALY which means that even if man is playing a part it is NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. The climate cycles, it always has, always will. If we all ceased to exist this very instant then the climate would still cycle as it always has, it would get warmer, it would get colder, CO2 levels would rise and fall just as they always have.

quote:


_jjp_, what fuels your sadly desperate need to dismiss global warming as a likely result of manmade emissions in the atmosphere?


OK i will try one last time, hopefully you actually read what i write. I DO NOT DENY THAT THERE IS GLOBAL WARMING. There have been numerous cycles throughout the history of the climate of warming and as I have already pointed out (as stated in an article that supports anthropogenic warming) some of those times the earth warmed faster than it is doing now to temperatures that are greater than what we see now. I have also stated if the connection was direct with increased emissions = global warming then why was there a 25 year cooling cycle in the middle of the increase? Both the greenland and vostock ice cores show that both CO2 and temperature have increased at greater rates and to greater degrees than what we see now WITHOUT THE INPUT OF MAN so we have no way of knowing that the current warming trend is not a normal cycle.



_jjp_ -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 9:41:34 PM)

Let me try to frame this another way. Let's say that there is an area that 2000 years ago experienced an average 10 earthquakes in one year and between that time and 2500 years before there was an average of 1/yr then at the 2500 year mark it averaged 15 per year for a few years up from 1/yr then we fast forward to say 225 years ago and we pick that as the beginning of our frame of reference and there are an average of 5 earthquakes/yr for 125 year then for 15 years there were an average of 8/yr then for 30 there was an average of 3/yr then for the last 55 we have an average of 7 which is 2/yr more than it was 225 years ago. Is the 7/yr an anomaly or is it just a part of cycle?



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 9:45:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: _jjp_
Please try to follow a train of thought please. I asked you "Can you deny that one who is trained in thermodynamics and fluids would be more able to decipher the data from a thermodynamic study of the climate? " to which you began your straw man arguement

A strawman is an incorrect caricature of another person's argument, which is then self-answered instead of the actual argument.
I did not do this. I stated plainly that engineers are not any more experts on global warming than lay people like me. Some engineers are more capable of "deciphering the data," and others are not.

The degree itself does not make an engineer more of an authority. This is my point. This is all that matters as it relates to this topic.

quote:

What i have pointed out is that THIS IS NOT AN ANOMALY which means that even if man is playing a part it is NOT THE END OF THE WORLD

Global warming does not theorize the end of the world.
Now we are looking at a strawman.

quote:

OK i will try one last time, hopefully you actually read what i write. I DO NOT DENY THAT THERE IS GLOBAL WARMING.

Good-- then we agree. Why are you arguing with me?



_jjp_ -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 9:55:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02


A strawman is an incorrect caricature of another person's argument, which is then self-answered instead of the actual argument.
I did not do this. I stated plainly that engineers are not any more experts on global warming than lay people like me.


which was not my arguement so therefore the beginning of your straw man. Nowhere in the question did i use the words engineer or expert yet you set up your answer as if i had then proceeded to defeat, not my actual question, but your made up one.


quote:

Some engineers are more capable of "deciphering the data," and others are not.


OK let's try this exercise one more time. Would an engineer trained in the sciences more likely be able to decipher the analytical data than would a "lay person" with no scientific training? The rest of the paragraph was very important to the point and your ignoring the rest of it and attempting to portray us as being in agreement is illogical.


quote:

The degree itself does not make an engineer more of an authority. This is my point. This is all that matters as it relates to this topic.


no matter how arrogant you come off, you are not the decider of what matters. You can't even see that since in the pursuit of the vast majority of engineering degrees those people are trained in the same sciences upon which climatology is built giving them an advantage in reading the data, on top of that the vast majority of engineers spend their days analyzing data of one sort or another and therefore are more equipped to read and understand the data presented in the actual warming studies.

quote:


Global warming does not theorize the end of the world.
Now we are looking at a strawman.


Are you so sheltered as to not know that saying something is not the end of the world is not actually claiming that the world will end? It was not a straw man just a saying.
quote:


quote:

OK i will try one last time, hopefully you actually read what i write. I DO NOT DENY THAT THERE IS GLOBAL WARMING.

Good-- then we agree. Why are you arguing with me?


way to ONCE AGAIN not address what i actually said. If you are unable to honestly address what i say then I would appreciate it if you did not attempt to debate me.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 10:28:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: _jjp_
Nowhere in the question did i use the words engineer or expert

But that was what we were initially talking about; don't try to tell me that we weren't. I refer to page 11, post #272:
quote:

And if you are so intellectually dishonest as to not be able to realize that an engineer who is schooled in the sciences and most often by necessity is quite adept at reading scientific papers and studies and INTERPRETTING DATA is more apt to have a better understanding of global warming studies and data than would your average Joe

This was your post, was it not?

quote:

OK let's try this exercise one more time

Yes, let's . . .

quote:

Would an engineer trained in the sciences more likely be able to decipher the analytical data than would a "lay person" with no scientific training?

More likely . . . yes.
In much the same manner that a cop is likely to know law better than your average lay person. But cops are not allowed to practice law, are they.
Likewise, engineers are not responsible for the global warming theory. Why are we pleading from their authority?
(I am allowed to question you, too, aren't I?)

quote:

You can't even see that since in the pursuit of the vast majority of engineering degrees those people are trained in the same sciences upon which climatology is built

No, they aren't trained in the specific sciences that global warming relies upon.

quote:

the vast majority of engineers spend their days analyzing data of one sort or another and therefore are more equipped to read and understand the data presented in the actual warming studies.

Basically you are suggesting that all scientific data is essentially the same. You've seen one set of data, you've seen them all. The data that engineers analyze is essentially the same as the geological, climatological data that global warming is based on, correct?

quote:

Are you so sheltered as to not know that saying something is not the end of the world is not actually claiming that the world will end? It was not a straw man just a saying.

Don't expect me to infer around your hyperbole. I go by what you say, not what you secretly mean in a manner of speaking.

quote:

If you are unable to honestly address what i say then I would appreciate it if you did not attempt to debate me.

Just tell me, straight out: since you do not deny global warming and neither do I, what is your problem with my position other than you don't seem to like me very much?



Bettawrekonize -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 10:34:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
I know better. They discredit him personally, sometimes without directly addressing his arguments at all.


Some might, but that doesn't mean all do. This, however, is a different argument than the one I am disputing. The quote I am disputing is, "Conservative websites disagree with Al Gore; therefore, they need not deal with the scientific merits of global warming." This quote suggests that, just because a site disagrees with you, it isn't dealing with the scientific merits of the issue. I am pointing out that this is not true.

quote:


The ones that do are guilty of ad hominem: a fallacious form of argument.


Even if true, this is not what I am disputing.

quote:


There is when they don't apply the same standard to the critics of global warming. Most of them aren't experts, either.


It doesn't take an expert to point out that someone has no credentials.

quote:


And I told you that I am not fair and impartial.


I didn't ask you not to take a position, I am asking you to be fair to the opposite side.

quote:


I don't see very many other fair and impartial GW critics on this thread, either. Why single me out?


Just because they disagree with you doesn't mean they are being unfair. If they really are being unfair (like you), then I would say they shouldn't.

quote:


I didn't think you could admit it, and once again I was right.


Whether or not you submitted arguments is irrelevant to the point I was making.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 10:49:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
Some might, but that doesn't mean all do.

So? It's alright if only some do?

quote:

This quote suggests that, just because a site disagrees with you, it isn't dealing with the scientific merits of the issue.

No, I said that they disagree with Al Gore and seek to discredit him rather than what he is saying.

quote:

It doesn't take an expert to point out that someone has no credentials.

That's not my point. My point is that it is hypocritical for people with no credentials taking aim at Al Gore's lack of credentials. It's that whole pot-calling-the-kettle-black thing.

quote:

I didn't ask you not to take a position, I am asking you to be fair to the opposite side.

I am. I used to be there once upon a time.

quote:

Just because they disagree with you doesn't mean they are being unfair. If they really are being unfair (like you), then I would say they shouldn't.

Oh, I get it: it's only unfair if I disagree with someone. Okay, thank you for pointing out the double standard that I was oblivious to.



Lizahana -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 10:59:26 PM)

lightshineon,

I don't know, because I don't own the stores - why don't you ask Walmart - ie, why you can buy a product online, but not in their stores?

Sorry, but I have no way of knowing...or did you for some reason think I owned Walmart ;) [:D]

Peace and God bless,

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

LIZ, why can I not buy it in stores?



Lizahana -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 11:04:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: _jjp_

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana
Sorry - missed it. jjp - even at 1 degrees F - the change is significant, so what is your point? The red flag that is going up to the UN, the IPCC, NASA, NOAA, the EPA is that this change in temperature, even at one degrees F - happened quickly due to the contribution to it by humans. And even if we do something, we're still looking at another increase of:



This from a site that is backing the claims of global warming.

quote:

Greenland ice cores indicate one spike in which the area's surface temperature increased by 15 degrees Fahrenheit (9 degrees Celsius) in just 10 years.


They also state that the earth has experienced warmer AND colder times as well. So let me get this straight, temperatures HAVE risen faster in the past, it HAS been both warmer and colder in the past BUT somehow this miniscule rate (in comparison to 15 degrees over a much shorter span) of 1 degree in decades is somehow an anomaly? Climate CYCLES PERIOD!!!!


jjp,

The EPA said, and I quote, "An “unequivocal” warming trend of about 1.0 to 1.7°F occurred from 1906-2005."

In any event:

"2007 Was Tied as Earth's Second-Warmest Year
01.16.08

Climatologists at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) in New York City have found that 2007 tied with 1998 for Earth’s second warmest year in a century.

Image right: Click this image for the "Earth's Temperature" Web video. Credit: NASA / Goddard Space Flight Center

"It is unlikely that 2008 will be a year with truly exceptional global mean temperature," said Hansen. "Barring a large volcanic eruption, a record global temperature clearly exceeding that of 2005 can be expected within the next few years, at the time of the next El Nino, because of the background warming trend attributable to continuing increases of greenhouse gases."

The eight warmest years in the GISS record have all occurred since 1998, and the 14 warmest years in the record have all occurred since 1990.

..

"As we predicted last year, 2007 was warmer than 2006, continuing the strong warming trend of the past 30 years that has been confidently attributed to the effect of increasing human-made greenhouse gases," said James Hansen, director of NASA GISS..."

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2008/earth_temp.html

Now, the big difference in this last warmest 'cycle' is that the EPA, NOAA, NASA, the IPCC, the UN say that it was largely caused by humans, and has happened at an accelerated rate. Understand? In other words, it is not 'normal' because it not caused by 'natural' things, jjp. How much clearer can those links be? And this is precisely why hundreds of countries joined together to sign Kyoto; this is why NASA's leading climatologist is calling for more action; why the UN lists restricting global warming chemicals a top priority; this is why 18/50 state governments are suing the EPA for not complying with tougher restrictions on global-warming causing agents.

And again, both the IPCC and the NOAA are predicting:

"According to the range of possible forcing scenarios, and taking into account uncertainty in climate model performance, the IPCC projects a best estimate of global temperature increase of 1.8 - 4.0°C with a possible range of 1.1 - 6.4°C by 2100, depending on which emissions scenario is used. However, this global average will integrate widely varying regional responses, such as the likelihood that land areas will warm much faster than ocean temperatures, particularly those land areas in northern high latitudes (and mostly in the cold season). Additionally, it is very likely that heat waves and other hot extremes will increase."

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html#q11

Again, please DO let me know if you need to see more links.

Later...

Peace and God bless,



lightshineon -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 11:25:58 PM)

HUH? I did ask wal-mart, it is because they are going green, I stated there are other products. I want pro-choice shopping. We have a failure to communicate. But bless you, and thanks for the information. And btw I did not fiqure you were Liz Walton[;)]
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana

lightshineon,

I don't know, because I don't own the stores - why don't you ask Walmart - ie, why you can buy a product online, but not in their stores?

Sorry, but I have no way of knowing...or did you for some reason think I owned Walmart ;) [:D]

Peace and God bless,

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

LIZ, why can I not buy it in stores?




Lizahana -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/12/2008 11:53:41 PM)

Well, I don't know what to say on behalf of Walmart. However, there are a multitude of vendors out on-line that will assist you on your 'goof-off' buying pleasures (aerosol and spray ;), including amazon.com. So, if Walmart does not want your business, amazon, and many others, do!)

Peace and God bless,

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

HUH? I did ask wal-mart, it is because they are going green, I stated there are other products. I want pro-choice shopping. We have a failure to communicate. But bless you, and thanks for the information. And btw I did not fiqure you were Liz Walton[;)]
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana

lightshineon,

I don't know, because I don't own the stores - why don't you ask Walmart - ie, why you can buy a product online, but not in their stores?

Sorry, but I have no way of knowing...or did you for some reason think I owned Walmart ;) [:D]

Peace and God bless,

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

LIZ, why can I not buy it in stores?





Bettawrekonize -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/13/2008 12:09:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
So? It's alright if only some do?


I didn't say that. I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing out that he lacks credentials (if he does) though.

quote:


No, I said that they disagree with Al Gore and seek to discredit him rather than what he is saying.


What you said was, "Conservative websites disagree with Al Gore; therefore, they need not deal with the scientific merits of global warming." This is a quote from you, this is exactly what you said. You said that they disagree with Al Gore and thus do not need to deal with the scientific merits of global warming, suggesting that they are not dealing with the scientific merits (just because they disagree with him). I am quoting this from you and I am telling you that what I quoted is not a fair statement. If you want to argue that they are not dealing with the scientific merits of global warming, that's fine. But just because they disagree with you is not an argument for the notion that they are not dealing with the scientific merits of global warming. What I quoted from you suggests otherwise.

quote:


That's not my point. My point is that it is hypocritical for people with no credentials taking aim at Al Gore's lack of credentials. It's that whole pot-calling-the-kettle-black thing.


I don't think there is anything wrong with someone with no credentials pointing out that his opponent doesn't have credentials either.

quote:


I used to be there once upon a time.


So?

quote:


Oh, I get it: it's only unfair if I disagree with someone.


No, that's not what I said. I said it's unfair for you to suggest that just because someone disagrees with you, they are not dealing with the scientific merits of the subject. This is true for both sides, not just your side.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/13/2008 10:16:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
I didn't say that. I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing out that he lacks credentials (if he does) though.

. . . Only if he claims to be an accredited expert. Then you examine his claim, not his character.

quote:

What you said was, "Conservative websites disagree with Al Gore; therefore, they need not deal with the scientific merits of global warming." . . . But just because they disagree with you is not an argument for the notion that they are not dealing with the scientific merits of global warming. What I quoted from you suggests otherwise.

I am not Al Gore. I do not speak for him, and he does not speak for me. Therefore, if someone disagrees with Al Gore, they are disagreeing with him, not me. But their argument against Al Gore will receive my criticism if the argument is nothing but ad hominem.

quote:

I don't think there is anything wrong with someone with no credentials pointing out that his opponent doesn't have credentials either

It's called hypocrisy. If I criticize you for being the same way that I am, then I am actually criticizing myself, am I not?

quote:

So?

So, I can be fair about this topic because I have been on both sides of the fence.

quote:

No, that's not what I said. I said it's unfair for you to suggest that just because someone disagrees with you, they are not dealing with the scientific merits of the subject.

But I have not done this, so you can let it go now.



Sophie11 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/13/2008 11:18:37 AM)

Just a thought. I've noticed some of you arguing that it's all those nasty "right-wingers" and "conservatives" that don't believe global warming is caused by man, as if their reason is simply that that is what the right is supposed to believe so they follow.

By saying that you are showing that this is a political issue for you. So then one could say that you are actually the ones who are biased, and maybe you are the ones simply following the party line.

If someone really cares about this issue, and they're not just using it as a political argument, then shouldn't they be more concerned with getting whatever facts they believe to be true across to as many people as they can instead of using it to bash the other side?

For the record, I do believe that the weather has been changing, but I do not believe the cause to be mankind. I believe it to be caused by other factors, namely sunspots. I am one of those horrible conservatives, but yes I do also think President Bush is wrong when he blames it on cars. It is just what I believe, and it is not based on what side of the aisle the information is coming from, but rather what seems to me to be the most logical explanation. I think this conversation about global warming has become extremely nasty for a lot of people, and it doesn't need to be so. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions on the subject, be them right or wrong.



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