RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (Full Version)

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1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/2/2008 4:48:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: _jjp_
You do realize that climatology is based on the basic sciences don't you (thermodynamics/physics/etc)

. . . But is still a specialized field.

quote:

you do realize that engineers are scientists don't you? Maybe they aren't climate scientists but they are scientists and therefore i would far sooner accept their assessment of scientific data than i would al gore or leo decaprios assessment.

So, let's follow your logic and apply it to another hypothetical:
Since a general practioner is a doctor, and a psychiatrist is a doctor, the two should be experts on one another's field because, after all, they are both doctors . . .

. . . doesn't work very well, does it.

quote:

well it is obvious that you don't read the data, you read the filtered accounts of the data that fit your mold (as evidenced by your link)

Want a few more? Here you go, and here, and here.

Seems that everyone is "filtering" the same way that I am.

quote:

Mapachito referred to actual measured data which shows that the current levels of CO2 are not the highest they have ever been and that the other times it was before the invention of SUVs.

mapachito13 showed us a cute little picture with no associated data, no references, and no sources.



_jjp_ -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/2/2008 4:56:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

. . . But is still a specialized field.


but having a scientific background makes reading the studies and actually understanding them much easier.

quote:


So, let's follow your logic and apply it to another hypothetical:
Since a general practioner is a doctor, and a psychiatrist is a doctor, the two should be experts on one another's field because, after all, they are both doctors . . .

. . . doesn't work very well, does it.


I never said that engineers would be experts in the field of climatology but they are most certainly better equipped to understand the science behind it than is Al Gore or the vast majority of those who are touting the scare tactics.

quote:

mapachito13 showed us a cute little picture with no associated data, no references, and no sources.


And i pointed you to the vostock ice cores which show the exact same correlations. You pick what data you choose to accept if it makes you sleep better. Myself i will take ALL of the data and form an informed opinion not based just on the very short time period of time that we have direct measured data for and definitely not based on the recommendations of the fear mongers.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/2/2008 5:08:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: _jjp_
but having a scientific background makes reading the studies and actually understanding them much easier.

Not necessarily. An engineer is actually no better equipped than I am to understand, say, evolution strictly on the basis of their engineering degree.

quote:

I never said that engineers would be experts in the field of climatology but they are most certainly better equipped to understand the science behind it than is Al Gore or the vast majority of those who are touting the scare tactics.

Why is Al Gore any less capable than an engineer to understand what climatologists and geologists are telling us?

quote:

And i pointed you to the vostock ice cores which show the exact same correlations.

Did I miss a link here? Sorry, where was that again?

quote:

You pick what data you choose to accept if it makes you sleep better.

Believe me, the prospects of global warming do not help me sleep like a baby.

quote:

Myself i will take ALL of the data

No you won't. I predict that you will continue to hang on every denial uttered by Rush Limbaugh, et al, no matter how much the obvious becomes increasingly obvious.



CatholicCritter -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/2/2008 5:19:33 PM)

Y'all can breathe easy. Global Warming is going on vacation apparently...

quote:

Researchers studying long-term changes in sea temperatures said they now expect a "lull" for up to a decade while natural variations in climate cancel out the increases caused by man-made greenhouse gas emissions.



This still doesn't mean that the global warming isn't the single biggest problem the world has ever known that will wipe us all out unless we abolish all free markets and implement world socialism NOW. ;)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/04/30/eaclimate130.xml



_jjp_ -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/2/2008 5:20:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

Not necessarily. An engineer is actually no better equipped than I am to understand, say, evolution strictly on the basis of their engineering degree.


Actually yes they are since they can understand the general format and verbage of scientific studies better. Besides that climatology is based on the same sciences that most engineering is therefore the studies are MUCH more understandable to them. They don't require that the data be filtered through others prior to their reading of it. Oh by the way, nice red herring with the evolution.

quote:


Why is Al Gore any less capable than an engineer to understand what climatologists and geologists are telling us?


Because due to the fact that engineers have been taught in a scientific structure and are often exposed to papers/studies/journals that deal with the sciences that climatology is built upon they are more well prepared to understand the unfiltered data.

quote:

Did I miss a link here? Sorry, where was that again?


Yes you did but only long after i first mentioned the study on the cores since i would rather you go find your data than to think that I cherry picked the parts of the study that suit me.

quote:


No you won't. I predict that you will continue to hang on every denial uttered by Rush Limbaugh, et al, no matter how much the obvious becomes increasingly obvious.


I actually haven't listened to Rush limbaugh in years. And for your information i have studied both sides of the equation and have never denied that there were some years that we were warmer and there were some periods where we experienced cooling (40's) and I have never denied the less than one degree celcius of warming that did in fact occur. I have simply looked at ALL of the data and applied logic and scientific reasoning to it and see that in the overall scheme of things, based on the data, that it is not anything of great concern. Yes it will require some changes in the way and places we live but i am not so arrogant as to believe that the climate that i find comfortable is the one and only correct way for the climate to remain. It is important to look at the overall picture not just the past 153 years that you choose to continue to flaunt over and again, I have formed an objective opinion based on the data and find people on the far ends of both sides of the spectrum and they are both offering nothing more than knee jerk reactions in an uninformed manner.



mapachito13 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/2/2008 6:15:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

mapachito13 showed us a cute little picture with no associated data, no references, and no sources.


That's because a picture is worth a thousand words! You still haven't explained away the previous spike in CO2 whether its equal to todays readings or not. It seems every 100K years there is spike in CO2. I would say we're repeating a cycle.

Also see the link below from the NOAA and pay attention to Figure 2 that shows CO2 level trending upward since 6500 years ago. So were ancient farmers trolling around in Ford F-series pickups and we didn't know about it? Producing pottery in smoke-belching factories?

More Pretty Pictures

BTW, how come they only show the uncertainty with time (I've seen error of plus or minus 200 to 600 years and not how much error (uncertainty) in the CO2 measurements. Why the secrecy? All scientific measurements have an uncertainty attached to it. Are the modern CO2 measurements shown from direct measurements or are they also from the ice sample? I am searching to find methodology.

BTW, the first pretty picture was derived from data taken from sample from the Vostok, Antartica core samples.



colliefan -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/2/2008 8:20:00 PM)

Thirty some years ago these so called experts were certain we were entering a new ice age. Snow fell in Tampa (I was there) and all the bridges iced-up and had to be closed.

Now these "experts" are calling for "climate change" and term they can use to explain any flucutations in the weather. Like why the Dakotas got hit by a blizzard this week.

All this driven in part by albore. The following are 36 lies in his film "Convient Lies"



_jjp_ -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/3/2008 12:02:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan
Now these "experts" are calling for "climate change" and term they can use to explain any flucutations in the weather.


It sure is intresting how it went from "the world will warm and we all will die" to CO2 being responsible for both cooling and warming and rain and dry.



Pat-rebel_lady -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/3/2008 12:10:54 AM)

quote:

Thirty some years ago these so called experts were certain we were entering a new ice age.Snow fell in Tampa ........ and all the bridges iced-up and had to be closed.

Now these "experts" are calling for "climate change" and term they can use to explain any flucutations in the weather. Like why the Dakotas got hit by a blizzard this week.

That's right.

quote:

The following are 36 lies in his film "Convient Lies"

[sm=icon_smile_question.gif]



_jjp_ -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/3/2008 12:36:58 AM)

So some cooling data

Here
and

here
and

here



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/3/2008 11:42:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: _jjp_
And for your information i have studied both sides of the equation and have never denied that there were some years that we were warmer and there were some periods where we experienced cooling (40's) and I have never denied the less than one degree celcius of warming that did in fact occur.

Then we agree. So why are you arguing with me?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13
You still haven't explained away the previous spike in CO2 whether its equal to todays readings or not.

My friend, did you not see the four different links, that I provided, all declaring that the previous spikes were not equal to the current one, but were actually less?



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/3/2008 11:46:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: _jjp_
So some cooling data

So, there's a cold spell right now. So what? One or two cold years does not break the warming trend. Now, if it lasts for several decades in a row, then perhaps we'll have something to talk about.



Robert_G -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/3/2008 1:04:50 PM)

Is it just me, or was the tiny ice cube floating at the North Pole (the normally giant Arctic Ice Cap) last summer just a figment of people's imagination???
The Arctic IceCap shrank by over 1,000,000 square miles in ONE YEAR. This is an event like we've never seen. We have photos from space to prove it.
This year, the colder winter (which came about only by a moderate La Nina Pattern) brought some ice back, but overall the melting this year is accelerating quickly. A hot summer could shrink it further.
I thought Canada was a Climate Change denying country, but from the responses in this thread, I'm ready to conclude that the U.S. is much worse.



colliefan -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/3/2008 1:19:44 PM)

quote:

thought Canada was a Climate Change denying country, but from the responses in this thread, I'm ready to conclude that the U.S. is much worse.


Good for Canada.



rcjames -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/3/2008 2:07:24 PM)

Oh yea the truth, In the mid 1970's there were notions of Global cooking, the coming ice age, etc. as evidenced by this aritcla in TIME Magazien found HERE.

And just for me I think the global warming hysteria if just that; hysteria.

It is May 3, I live in Central Oklshoma, all the buds on my fruit trees have been killed by frost, and it was 36 degrees this morning.

Global warming? Nay.

THsnks
RC



colliefan -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/3/2008 7:52:33 PM)

This global warming hoax shows how easily the anti-Christ will take control. Have a few phony miracles - as in a phony movie - and predict dire consequences unless he assumes control. Never mind the facts - the bible - he alone has the solutions for the world's problems. He will have the world bowing at his feet and eating out of his hands.



ToolmanUF -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/3/2008 9:50:58 PM)

Here is something that I simply don't understand:

Even if one could prove that global warming is not true at all, what do we have to loose by adapting more environment friendly policies? What harm would there be in driving less, using less fuel, building greener cities, increasing public transportation, watching out for endangered species? How would this be a bad thing?

If global warming is not true, we still win by building healthier cities. However, if there is some validity behing the scientiests' claims, then in the long run we could be in for a shock.

I have a question for those of you who seem so anti- everything pro-environment. Have you ever been to a city that suffers from the results of too much smog? I am about to move to Cairo for a year, and I am very nervous because I hear that due to the overcrowding and the poor filter quality for facturies and cars the air is down right disgusting. Of course, there are also cities in the US with horrible pollution (like LA). What do have to loose by taking better care of the Earth, regardless of whether global warming is a major threat or not?



Lizahana -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/3/2008 10:29:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: _jjp_

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2monkeysmom

How much do you really know about global warming? Take the test and find out if you know the fact or the hype.

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/GlobWarmTest/start.html


Wow - a chief engineer for the West Virginia Office of Miner’s Safety somehow has the credentials to give a quiz about earth's climate?! LOL! Why is he giving a test on climate change?

Peace and God bless,


At least as an engineer he is trained in the sciences unlike the current spokespeople for global warming. I think i would rather have an engineer than an ex VP or a hollywood idiot speaking for me on matters which require at least a modicum of understanding of science.


Well, I mean compared to most climatologists who agree that humans are at least party to blame for the global warming...so the information I read is from real climatologists, not celebrities.

And...hmmm.....look at what the global warming test is dated:

"Take the
Global Warming Test
This site last updated October 4, 1998"

LOL! Nothing like being up to date! Unreal that this site is even taken seriously at all...it's amusing, though, that it is taken seriously I guess. I mean, all one can do is laugh!

Peace and God bless,



colliefan -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/3/2008 10:41:04 PM)

quote:

increasing public transportation,


Public transportation ALWAYS operates at a loss. And fbe rich elite do not have to use it.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be a steward with what God has given us. The problem comes is when adopt policies that do more harm than good. The shift to ethanol has taken a product that was intended for a food product only and has shifted it to an inefficent energy chain.

The internal combustion engine has been demonized but it has brought us great good. Do you really want to return to the lifestyle of the late 1800s and early 1900s. Look at the advances in everything. Look at the increased life span. Look at the transportation advances, the communication advances, the advances in just daily living. Not having to wait for the ice man to come to chill your food.

This climate scare has been going on for over 30 years. Add to that the Zero Population scare. What is taking place is a sheer hate of capitalism and a love of socialism. No one in their right mind is suggesting a total destruction of the planet. Just that we use what God has given in a manner that will do minimal damage to the Earth.



colliefan -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/3/2008 10:45:11 PM)

quote:

...so the information I read is from real climatologists, not celebrities


Then why trust albore to tell the truth...he is making a fortune selling carbon credits for the adsolution of sins against the environment.



Lizahana -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/5/2008 7:25:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

quote:

...so the information I read is from real climatologists, not celebrities


Then why trust albore to tell the truth...he is making a fortune selling carbon credits for the adsolution of sins against the environment.


colliefan,

Now, I am not here to talk about Al Gore - I don't know your qualms with him. Nor do I care.

I am talking about climate change, you know, the subject of this thread. We have the UN, IPCC, our OWN US EPA, and even the Bush Administration has conceded that humans are at least partly to blame for global warming.

Now, if you want to take the words of a mining safety engineer's words that are 10 years old over that of the UN, IPCC, our OWN government, go right ahead - that's your problem, certainly not mine.

Peace and God bless,



mapachito13 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/5/2008 8:14:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: _jjp_

So some cooling data

Here
and

here
and

here


What's amazing is that Ted Turner's CNN had an article on it at all. He likes to revise the news to fit his own political agenda.

I still haven't seen comment by the "chicken little's" on the NOAA (National Oceanic Atmoshpheric Administration) on the data showing CO2 levels have been trending upward since 6500 years ago when the ancient Sumerians were driving aroung in their SUV's! [;)] (Post # 56)

Hey LUUUUCY! You got some 'splaining to do!

BTW, just because someone doesn't believe in global "warming" or think even that it's man made doesn't mean that they are anti-conservationist. I think that we need to find ways to sever our reliance on Saudi Arabian oil so this financial backer of terrorism can go back to the obscurity from whence they came before oil made them one of the wealthiest nations on the planet.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/5/2008 9:49:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames
Oh yea the truth, In the mid 1970's there were notions of Global cooking, the coming ice age, etc. as evidenced by this aritcla in TIME Magazien found HERE.

We've learned just a few more things since 1974, rc.

quote:

And just for me I think the global warming hysteria if just that; hysteria.

The hysteria is coming from the right who are running scared from the very idea of global warming. Why does it frighten them much?

quote:

It is May 3, I live in Central Oklshoma, all the buds on my fruit trees have been killed by frost, and it was 36 degrees this morning.

Global warming? Nay.

One cold day does not break a warming trend spanning several centuries. This is the kind of lengths of bad logic that the right goes to in order to stay in denial. What is the deal . . . ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan
This global warming hoax shows how easily the anti-Christ will take control. Have a few phony miracles - as in a phony movie - and predict dire consequences unless he assumes control. Never mind the facts - the bible - he alone has the solutions for the world's problems. He will have the world bowing at his feet and eating out of his hands.

And this is just downright bizarre!

quote:

No one in their right mind is suggesting a total destruction of the planet. Just that we use what God has given in a manner that will do minimal damage to the Earth.

But this is not what we are doing, my friend. We are doing far more than "minimal" damage to the earth. Along with 150 years of global warming we have also seen the needless extinction of roughly 200 species of birds and mammals, with several more in danger of extinction, mass deforestation, and ecological disasters like the Exxon Valdez nearly destroying whole biomes.
You call this being "good stewards?"

quote:

What is taking place is a sheer hate of capitalism and a love of socialism.

No, what is going on here is sheer avarice and denial in order to justify the cupidity of our capitalistic mindset.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13
I still haven't seen comment by the "chicken little's" on the NOAA (National Oceanic Atmoshpheric Administration) on the data showing CO2 levels have been trending upward since 6500 years ago when the ancient Sumerians were driving aroung in their SUV's!

If this were just a continuation of a slow trend spanning several millenia, then there would be no cause for concern. But the fact is that the upward trend has spiked dramatically over the last 150 years-- a fact that the right just can't deal with.
Btw, the "chicken littles" at the NOAA are very conservative about global warming these days. They take into consideration the arguments against global warming when they present their data. However, they still don't deny the reality of global warming.



davemiller7 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/5/2008 1:02:09 PM)

The environmental fascists and Algore Kool-Aid drinkers motto: "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!"



StephK -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/5/2008 1:43:02 PM)

All I know is that it's 05/05/08 and only 63 on the gulf coast of Louisiana. Let's me say that it's been a long time since it's been this cool this time of year. I'm not complaining at all. The thing with climate change is that we don't know as much as we think we do. The climate will change because it has in the past and there is nothing we mere humans can do about it to be honest. Yes we need to be good stewards and be conservationists but not fear mongering chicken littles.



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