RE: Global warming- do you know the truth?

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Lizahana -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 7:51:27 PM)
That's cool that we agree on that and that you recycle! Well, the liberals I know do recycle; we use canvas bags at the grocery store, stores; we have compost piles; we buy the 'greenselect' napkins and papertowels (that use the most post consumable <recycled> content; we buy the 'green' cleaners; we use flourescent lighting rather than incandescent; we bought front loading washer that uses much less energy and 50% less water. I'd say that about half of my liberal friends have bought local farmer shares: you support local farmers who do not use pesticides and you help out your local farmers - it's a win, win situation, but expensive. I'm trying to see if my mom wants to buy a share with my husband and I. Most of my environmental, liberal friends drive hybrids. I have always driven compact cars, so my mileage has always been good. I am currently saving for a hybrid - the next car we will buy. So...I'm not sure why the liberals you know don't do this - maybe they vote liberal because of other issues? I don't know... Well, I believe, as does the UN, IPCC, our own governments EPA and even the Bush Admin - that humans are at least partly to blame for global warming; so I respectfully disagree with you on that. Peace and God bless, quote: ORIGINAL: lightshineon I truly agree with your views on scripture on this matter. Is it not great, though we disagree greatly on some issues, we are like minded of stewardship and care of Gods creation[:)]I like you see it as a gift also. I do not think much about the global warming theroy though. My daughter Biology major does, but, I do not know if it is because she has been brainwashed, or believes in Global Warming. I respect your view on this, but, how far does aperson go? How far do you go in protecting the enviroment? I said before I recycle, which I felt conviction, most of my liberal friends do not even do that. I guess I hear much talk about the fear ( this is in no way directed at you) but, if people really believe this theroy, why do I hear more talk then action. quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana quote: ORIGINAL: colliefan quote: Amen to that!!! Ever since Adam and Eve and the Tower of Babel humans have wanted to usurp God's power over the universe and make it our own. WRONG. We were command do to the following: Gen 1:28 - 31 (ESV) 28And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. 30And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. 31And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. God also commands us to be stewards, to take care of HIS creation: Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. Psalm 24:1 The earth [is] the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. Why would you NOT want to take good care of what is the Lord's, ESPECIALLY when HE tells us to take care of what is HIS? Peace and God bless,

Lizahana -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 8:06:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: colliefan So when did trees stop taking up CO2 Let's take a look at some quotes from some evironmentals and see true agenda of global warming quote: I get the impression that instead of going out to shoot birds, I should go out and shoot the kids who shoot the birds. Greenpeace co-founder Paul Watson Access to Energy Vol. 10.4 12/82 and from our non-baised media (cough, cough) quote: Us homo sapiens are turning out to be as destructive as an asteroid. Earth's intricite system of ecosystems survived for millions pf years as natural paradises before we came along.....The stark reality is that there are too many of us, And we consume way too much. Especially here at home...The solutions are not secret; control population , recycle, reduce consumption Matt Lauer MSNBC Countdown to Doomsday 6/06 Man is bad Capitalism is bad, Earth is to be worshiped above God 1) where are these two people saying to worship the earth? Please show me; 2) you never did answer my question: God also commands us to be stewards, to take care of HIS creation: Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. Psalm 24:1 The earth [is] the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. Why would you NOT want to take good care of what is the Lord's, ESPECIALLY when HE tells us to take care of what is HIS? The earth is God's - why would you not want to take care of it? Especially since he tells us to... Peace and God bless,

colliefan -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 8:19:08 PM)
quote: Why would you NOT want to take good care of what is the Lord's, ESPECIALLY when HE tells us to take care of what is HIS? The earth is God's - why would you not want to take care of it? Especially since he tells us to... He does tell us to care for the earth. Look at all the levtical laws regarding crop rotation. But there is a huge difference between using something that can be obtained in a manner to cause mimal environmental damage and not using that critical resource at all. Especially when this resource is needed for so much in the world.

freakofnature -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 10:19:17 PM)
Liz and 1dblthink02 Please review the following and reply in kind: http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=97457&referralPlaylistId=949437d0db05ed5f5b9954dc049d70b0c12f2749 the statements at about 1:14 and then also this: http://climateaudit.org/ The trend seems to be changing. I don't know how ice can continue to get larger on a planet that is too hot to maintain it... oh wait... it caint!!!!! ( i know it is spelled wrong)

1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 10:38:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 How miniscule then is 150 years to say 2 Billion years? It doesn't matter. What matters is what has been going on in these last 150 years that has not been going on throughout the previous of Earth's history: a massive population explosion to unprecedented levels, the proliferation of worldwide industry on an equally massive scale, and an interconnected worldwide market. quote: And out of 150 years we only have 30 years of direct global temperature mesurement that doesn't resort to inferential analysis. The facts that we do have are enough to go on. The last 30 years are the most crucial ones, btw. The three conditions that I listed have increased exponentially-- especially human population and consumerism. quote: ORIGINAL: colliefan need to do it to get corn for bio-fuels Oh, there's a good deal more to it than that.

1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/6/2008 10:52:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freakofnature Liz and 1dblthink02 Please review the following and reply in kind: the statements at about 1:14 As I have stated over and over throughout this thread, a momentary cold snap is not in and of itself enough to reverse a trend spanning centuries. No one talks about the fact that last summer saw record high temperatures in all but four states in the U.S. There were massive wildfires and drought conditions in many regions, and this is not unique to the U.S. I find it very disingenuous of Fox News to make a big deal about ice levels temporarily building back to normal levels in Antarctica, but not drawing any conclusions about the heat waves and increase in hurricane activity. quote: and then also this: The trend seems to be changing. Again, we are looking at a spike punctuating a 29 year record that otherwise shows very low ice levels. What do the low levels tell us? One thing is for sure: one spike doesn't make a long range trend. quote: I don't know how ice can continue to get larger on a planet that is too hot to maintain it... oh wait... it caint!!!!! Exactly, and in the long run this is what shall be observed.

Lizahana -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/7/2008 7:32:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: colliefan quote: Why would you NOT want to take good care of what is the Lord's, ESPECIALLY when HE tells us to take care of what is HIS? The earth is God's - why would you not want to take care of it? Especially since he tells us to... He does tell us to care for the earth. Look at all the levtical laws regarding crop rotation. But there is a huge difference between using something that can be obtained in a manner to cause mimal environmental damage and not using that critical resource at all. Especially when this resource is needed for so much in the world. You mean a resource, whose exhaust exacerbates asthma, and has been linked to higher incidents of asthma in children, cancer and reproductive problems? Is this what you mean, colliefan? Or is it that you have not considered these people that have these conditions? See, I have asthma, and I am having a hard time concieving, and have read studies showing the aforementioned, and they are of particular interest, to at least me. Peace and God bless,

Lizahana -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/7/2008 7:48:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freakofnature Liz and 1dblthink02 Please review the following and reply in kind: http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=97457&referralPlaylistId=949437d0db05ed5f5b9954dc049d70b0c12f2749 the statements at about 1:14 and then also this: http://climateaudit.org/ The trend seems to be changing. I don't know how ice can continue to get larger on a planet that is too hot to maintain it... oh wait... it caint!!!!! ( i know it is spelled wrong) freakofnature, I went to the very source of the information that your fox news quoted, the noaa, and this is what THE NOAA says about global change: "What is the greenhouse effect, and is it affecting our climate? The greenhouse effect is unquestionably real and helps to regulate the temperature of our planet. It is essential for life on Earth and is one of Earth's natural processes. It is the result of heat absorption by certain gases in the atmosphere (called greenhouse gases because they effectively 'trap' heat in the lower atmosphere) and re-radiation downward of some of that heat. Water vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas, followed by carbon dioxide and other trace gases. Without a natural greenhouse effect, the temperature of the Earth would be about zero degrees F (-18°C) instead of its present 57°F (14°C). So, the concern is not with the fact that we have a greenhouse effect, but whether human activities are leading to an enhancement of the greenhouse effect by the emission of greenhouse gases through fossil fuel combustion and deforestation. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. Are greenhouse gases increasing? Human activity has been increasing the concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere (mostly carbon dioxide from combustion of coal, oil, and gas; plus a few other trace gases). There is no scientific debate on this point. ... 3. Is the climate warming? Global surface temperatures have increased about 0.74°C (plus or minus 0.18°C) since the late-19th century, and the linear trend for the past 50 years of 0.13°C (plus or minus 0.03°C) per decade is nearly twice that for the past 100 years. The warming has not been globally uniform. Some areas (including parts of the southeastern U.S. and parts of the North Atlantic) have, in fact, cooled slightly over the last century. The recent warmth has been greatest over North America and Eurasia between 40 and 70°N. Lastly, seven of the eight warmest years on record have occurred since 2001 and the 10 warmest years have all occurred since 1995. ... 11. What about the future? Due to the enormous complexity of the atmosphere, the most useful tools for gauging future changes are 'climate models'. These are computer-based mathematical models which simulate, in three dimensions, the climate's behavior, its components and their interactions. Climate models are constantly improving based on both our understanding and the increase in computer power, though by definition, a computer model is a simplification and simulation of reality, meaning that it is an approximation of the climate system... The IPCC Special Report on Emission Scenarios determines the range of future possible greenhouse gas concentrations (and other forcings) based on considerations such as population growth, economic growth, energy efficiency and a host of other factors. This leads a wide range of possible forcing scenarios, and consequently a wide range of possible future climates. According to the range of possible forcing scenarios, and taking into account uncertainty in climate model performance, the IPCC projects a best estimate of global temperature increase of 1.8 - 4.0°C with a possible range of 1.1 - 6.4°C by 2100, depending on which emissions scenario is used. However, this global average will integrate widely varying regional responses, such as the likelihood that land areas will warm much faster than ocean temperatures, particularly those land areas in northern high latitudes (and mostly in the cold season). Additionally, it is very likely that heat waves and other hot extremes will increase. ..." http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html#q2 Now, you are the one who brought the noaa (you are aware that the fox clip spoke of the noaa) into the picture and the aforementioned. And my answer to your question, "I don't know how ice can continue to get larger on a planet that is too hot to maintain it... oh wait... it caint" My guess would be that this is over a long trend - that increases in temperature will in the long run cause our climate to change drastically - and according to the NOAA, UN, IPCC, it already has started. And, if you want to believe a test from a work safety engineer that is 10 years old, over the scientific consensus that includes the UN, the IPCC, our own government EPA, the NOAA, and even the Bush Admin has conceded that global warming is here and that humans play at least a part in it - if you choose to believe 10 year old test from a work saftey engineer over the aforementioned - I can't do anything about that - that is your problem, not mine. Peace and God bless,

mapachito13 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/7/2008 8:04:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 How miniscule then is 150 years to say 2 Billion years? It doesn't matter. What matters is what has been going on in these last 150 years that has not been going on throughout the previous of Earth's history: a massive population explosion to unprecedented levels, the proliferation of worldwide industry on an equally massive scale, and an interconnected worldwide market. Wrong my friend. During much of the Paleozoic era, CO2 levels were several orders of magnitude HIGHER than they are today. And while they were this high, average global temperatures dropped. (450-438 million years ago). Even more "cute" pictures!

Lizahana -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/7/2008 8:13:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 How miniscule then is 150 years to say 2 Billion years? It doesn't matter. What matters is what has been going on in these last 150 years that has not been going on throughout the previous of Earth's history: a massive population explosion to unprecedented levels, the proliferation of worldwide industry on an equally massive scale, and an interconnected worldwide market. Wrong my friend. During much of the Paleozoic era, CO2 levels were several orders of magnitude HIGHER than they are today. And while they were this high, average global temperatures dropped. (450-438 million years ago). Even more "cute" pictures! Wow, another quote from the work safety engineer that gives out 10-year old global warming tests on his website...mmmmm...gotta love that new technology and data! Peace and God bless,

mapachito13 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/7/2008 8:28:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana Wow, another quote from the work safety engineer that gives out 10-year old global warming tests on his website...mmmmm...gotta love that new technology and data! Peace and God bless, Sorry. But thanks for playing ad homminem attack! Christopher R. Scotese, Associate Professor, Ph.D., University of Chicago, Associate Professor, plate tectonics, paleogeography 1985. Research interests include plate tectonics, paleogeography, and paleoclimatology. The PALEOMAP Project, which produces lithologic maps of the past configuration of the continents and ocean basins, is the primary focus of this research.

Lizahana -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/7/2008 8:33:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana Wow, another quote from the work safety engineer that gives out 10-year old global warming tests on his website...mmmmm...gotta love that new technology and data! Peace and God bless, Sorry. But thanks for playing ad homminem attack! Christopher R. Scotese, Associate Professor, Ph.D., University of Chicago, Associate Professor, plate tectonics, paleogeography 1985. Research interests include plate tectonics, paleogeography, and paleoclimatology. The PALEOMAP Project, which produces lithologic maps of the past configuration of the continents and ocean basins, is the primary focus of this research. I thought you were talking about the global warming test. I mean, this all relates back to global warming, correct? Is it or is it not happening due to humans, correct? In any event, on the main site, http://www.geocraft.com, it states: "THIS SITE BY: Monte Hieb-- 1996" Monte Hieb is a chief engineer for mining safety in Virginia. And, btw, the global warming 'test your knowledge' site, states this: "Take the Global Warming Test This site last updated October 4, 1998 " Perhaps you read 10 year old data vs getting the latest data, but I don't. Peace and God bless,

freakofnature -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/7/2008 9:28:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 quote: ORIGINAL: freakofnature Liz and 1dblthink02 Please review the following and reply in kind: the statements at about 1:14 As I have stated over and over throughout this thread, a momentary cold snap is not in and of itself enough to reverse a trend spanning centuries. No one talks about the fact that last summer saw record high temperatures in all but four states in the U.S. There were massive wildfires and drought conditions in many regions, and this is not unique to the U.S. I find it very disingenuous of Fox News to make a big deal about ice levels temporarily building back to normal levels in Antarctica, but not drawing any conclusions about the heat waves and increase in hurricane activity. quote: and then also this: The trend seems to be changing. Again, we are looking at a spike punctuating a 29 year record that otherwise shows very low ice levels. What do the low levels tell us? One thing is for sure: one spike doesn't make a long range trend. quote: I don't know how ice can continue to get larger on a planet that is too hot to maintain it... oh wait... it caint!!!!! Exactly, and in the long run this is what shall be observed. Explained as follows: http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/ "You've heard Al Gore comment that the "Earth has a fever"? It may also have major tooth decay. ......the dramatic loss of multiyear sea ice over the past year. Multiyear sea ice is older and generally thicker ice - sea ice that has survived at least one melt season. " Otherwise, I'm not going to get into a long discussion on this matter, I hesitated making any comments at all, I'm not convinced on either side of the isle on this one. But! Explain to me why some of the noaa temperature monitors are sitting in the middle of some parking lots where it is obviously going to be warmer. http://www.surfacestations.org/ Also, all I'm sayin' is that I am not spending inordinate amounts of time on this issue and researching it, I have four children and lots of homework to go over. There by no means is a consensus on this issue and the fact that there are large corporations and governments pushing this issue to make money and raise taxes and intrude on personal rights makes me real suspicious. But the following links should clear up my thoughts on the matter, it is a weak argument... http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=58024 http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=364265 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88520025 http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23411799-7583,00.html Finally, what do you propose we do. Eliminate half of the world population? Legislate that we have to walk to work.. ride a bike?? Only drive vehicles that are of the Governments standards. Happy fascism my boy.. happy fascism.. http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?r=1&z=y&EAN=9780385511841&itm=1&popup=0

freakofnature -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/7/2008 9:37:00 AM)
Here: Try this link on for size: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001416.html explain record high temps now. Also, not buying the Hurricane argument: http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastdec.shtml Between 1940 and 1951 there were 24 Hurricanes. 2001-2004...9

1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/7/2008 9:37:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 During much of the Paleozoic era, CO2 levels were several orders of magnitude HIGHER than they are today. But not due to industrial pollution, artificial deforestation, and a human population of 6.7 billion (and climbing) all participating in an interconnected worldwide market. None of the aforementioned were a factor; they are a factor today. I'm not letting you sidestep reality, sir. quote: And while they were this high, average global temperatures dropped. (450-438 million years ago). . . . But was probably preceded by extensive global warming to the greatest mass extinction in earth's history (the Permian Extinction). Thank you for further proving my point about global warming. quote: Even more "cute" pictures! . . . And that's all they are so far as your argument goes.

freakofnature -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/7/2008 9:43:20 AM)
quote: . . But was probably preceded by extensive global warming to the greatest mass extinction in earth's history (the Permian Extinction). Thank you for further proving my point about global warming. And there is just nothin' you or I can do about it... if the Earth warms, so be it. Were all dead. Then when I get to heaven, I'll ask God, why did the earth warm, and IF he says because I made it to do so, I'll be satisfied... If he says, I allowed it to warm to wipe you all out, again I'll be satsified. NOT sure He is going to "Man-made global warming, and there was nuttin' I could do about it!"

freakofnature -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/7/2008 9:49:43 AM)
quote: But not due to industrial pollution, artificial deforestation, and a human population of 6.7 billion (and climbing) all participating in an interconnected worldwide market. None of the aforementioned were a factor; they are a factor today. I'm not letting you sidestep reality, sir. OH WAIT! HALT PROGRESS... We all have to live under new rules. You must build a home in a cave (better hurry, there are limited supplies) and then you have to grow your own food, and then sit still all day and watch out how much you breath, too much CO2. Oh and then if you aren't able to secure a cave, too bad, you can't build homes from wood any more, so you'll just have to die out there... We are the government... we are here to confiscate your car sir, it polutes too much. And since we are at it, we are going to confiscate your water heater, you have it set too high... and then we are going to force you into putting up these completely inefficient solar panels on top of your house.... WHEN! OH WHEN WILL IT END! It won't until "WE" have complete control over every facet of your life. Then "WE" will end your life. We can abort babies and now the elderly. To many carbon footprints and all... It's for the good of Mother earth.

1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/7/2008 9:53:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freakofnature Explained as follows: "You've heard Al Gore comment that the "Earth has a fever"? It may also have major tooth decay. ......the dramatic loss of multiyear sea ice over the past year. Multiyear sea ice is older and generally thicker ice - sea ice that has survived at least one melt season. " Which only underscores my position. Then you agree with me? quote: But! Explain to me why some of the noaa temperature monitors are sitting in the middle of some parking lots where it is obviously going to be warmer. Because they need flat surfaces unaffected by artificial heating sources. quote: There by no means is a consensus on this issue Wrong. There is consensus that global warming is happening and why. The differences are in interpreting the long term implications. quote: Finally, what do you propose we do. Admit that I am right. quote: Eliminate half of the world population? that may very well happen on its own. quote: Legislate that we have to walk to work.. ride a bike?? Only drive vehicles that are of the Governments standards. Happy fascism my boy.. happy fascism.. Happy head in the sand, sir . . .

1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/7/2008 9:58:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freakofnature And there is just nothin' you or I can do about it... if the Earth warms, so be it. Were all dead. I don't know if all of us will die; hopefully just the naysayers (I'm being sardonic, btw). quote: Then when I get to heaven, I'll ask God, why did the earth warm, and IF he says because I made it to do so, I'll be satisfied... If he says, I allowed it to warm to wipe you all out, again I'll be satsified. NOT sure He is going to "Man-made global warming, and there was nuttin' I could do about it!" Now, there's a good, solid, scientific outlook for ya. You couldn't possibly convince me with an argument like this.

stellaluna -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/7/2008 10:03:01 AM)
There's a pretty big problem with the people who cry "global warming" and "too much population." They are the same people who want free food and free health care for those who can't afford it. Stop the giveaways and you curb the population.

freakofnature -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/7/2008 10:03:28 AM)
quote: Wrong. There is consensus that global warming is happening and why. The differences are in interpreting the long term implications. The stated articles I linked are reflective of no consensus SIR! That is wrong... quote: Finally, what do you propose we do. Admit that I am right. Typical elitist liberal speak. I will admit you are right only when you are right? In this case, I'm sorry you may or may not be! And if I were to admit you are right, then what, give you my first born, my SUV and move to a cave? There are two sides to this argument, my head is far from in the sand. You prefer to close the door to discussion on the matter and then chose to believe that I am some flatearther, who can't seem to find enough inteligence to see things your way. Well the earth is round, and you are unfortunately not seeing the bigger picture.

freakofnature -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/7/2008 10:08:17 AM)
quote: Now, there's a good, solid, scientific outlook for ya. You couldn't possibly convince me with an argument like this. You are in a forum created by a Christian organization. Henceforth the belief in Christ. Uh, did you not read the TOS?? And it was a bit on the uh.. sarcastic side sorry if I may have confused your already liberal eaten brain.

mapachito13 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/7/2008 10:19:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana Wow, another quote from the work safety engineer that gives out 10-year old global warming tests on his website...mmmmm...gotta love that new technology and data! Peace and God bless, Sorry. But thanks for playing ad homminem attack! Christopher R. Scotese, Associate Professor, Ph.D., University of Chicago, Associate Professor, plate tectonics, paleogeography 1985. Research interests include plate tectonics, paleogeography, and paleoclimatology. The PALEOMAP Project, which produces lithologic maps of the past configuration of the continents and ocean basins, is the primary focus of this research. I thought you were talking about the global warming test. I mean, this all relates back to global warming, correct? Is it or is it not happening due to humans, correct? In any event, on the main site, http://www.geocraft.com, it states: "THIS SITE BY: Monte Hieb-- 1996" Monte Hieb is a chief engineer for mining safety in Virginia. And, btw, the global warming 'test your knowledge' site, states this: "Take the Global Warming Test This site last updated October 4, 1998 " Perhaps you read 10 year old data vs getting the latest data, but I don't. Peace and God bless, So there is data that refutes the data of 100's of millions of years ago that has come about in the past 10-15 years? My point was in refuting that at no time in the history of the earth that CO2 levels were as high as today. So unless you can refute the data from the paleozoic era with "more current" data it still stands! Hey, we haven't been to the moon in a long time maybe all the data we brought back from there is wrong too! I mean that data is more than 30 years old!

StephK -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/7/2008 10:29:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stellaluna There's a pretty big problem with the people who cry "global warming" and "too much population." They are the same people who want free food and free health care for those who can't afford it. Stop the giveaways and you curb the population. Have you ever asked one of these believers why they don't do the world a favor and off themselves to conserve those precious resources? [8D]

1dblthnk02 -> RE: Global warming- do you know the truth? (5/7/2008 10:31:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freakofnature The stated articles I linked are reflective of no consensus SIR! That is wrong... They do not refute a consensus about the reality of global warming or its cause. quote: I will admit you are right only when you are right? In this case, I'm sorry you may or may not be! No, I am right. You have utterly failed to dismantle the facts as I have interpreted them. quote: And if I were to admit you are right, then what, give you my first born, my SUV and move to a cave? No, there is no "then what." I am right-- period. quote: There are two sides to this argument And sometimes the two sides are "right" and "wrong." I am on the side of "right." quote: You prefer to close the door to discussion on the matter No, not at all. I prefer to discuss this to cut through the fog of disinformation that clouds this topic. quote: and then chose to believe that I am some flatearther, who can't seem to find enough inteligence to see things your way. You are not even considering what I am saying. quote: You are in a forum created by a Christian organization. Henceforth the belief in Christ. Uh, did you not read the TOS?? We are discussing a scientific topic, not a religious one. An argument pleading from God's authority carries no weight when we are comparing strictly empirical evidence. quote: And it was a bit on the uh.. sarcastic side That is correct. quote: sorry if I may have confused your already liberal eaten brain. Hmmm . . . dangerously close to an ad hominem remark. Have you not read the TOS?

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