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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/4/2008 10:01:14 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
not involved with gangs but victims of the gang terrorists
Not to take this on another direction, but Obama is opposed to the death penalty for gang land killings. Then how would he treat a terrorist attack in one of our cities?
Have his pal Rev. Wright be their new spokesperson...
John
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/5/2008 8:23:58 AM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
But we don't fight for Sudanese Christians in Darfar.
But I thought we weren't to get involved in ethnic battles
Technically, it would be a religious battle. And it's not just Christian it's animist (pagan) Sudanese as well. Call it a Crusade by the Islamists.
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/5/2008 8:29:02 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2004
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TQ_Fan_4_Life
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: TQ_Fan_4_Life
I simply want to ask, what makes the wars different in Biblical days? when it talks of killing every man woman and child in the lands invaded, aren't they innocents? oh no, they were against the Christians.
When I see the United States military march around a terrorist camp for seven days in dead silence I'll take notice...
quote:
well America as a whole believes in God.
No, it doesn't... It believes in many things that are said to be God... In America God is more of a term than the God of the Bible... Half the people that claim Christ believe in abortion, homosexual rights, and other ungoldy concepts...
John
liberals.
and nowa days, terrorists will attack if they see you marching.
Usually when one has to result to hyperbole and ad homminem attacks (using the L word) they know their position is weak on facts.
BTW, I have read some of John's other posts so I feel the L word doesn't apply!
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/5/2008 11:04:56 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7425
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
darren.been and Jhud,
WOW your responces are very sad. The angels are not rejoycing, they are crying, and it is not something to be happy about. Inocents were killed and a muslim went to an eternal seperation from our Lord Jesus Christ. It is disgusting that beleivers would find this a hapy thing. Shame on the both of you. The deqath and damnarion of any person is an extreemly sad event.
While, as I said at the beginning the death of civilians is always sad, I don’t know why anybody would find the death of a terrorist sad. I’m not ‘sad’ when a mass murderer dies, I wouldn’t have been sad when Hitler died, and I am not sad when a member of a group dedicated to killing innocent people dies. It’s just, and I am not sad about justice being done to an evil person, and I see no evidence that God or the angels are either; after all, God created the government to do just that - why would he be sad when the government does what it is supposed to do?
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/5/2008 11:46:56 AM
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mcp
Posts: 109
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quote:
While, as I said at the beginning the death of civilians is always sad, I don’t know why anybody would find the death of a terrorist sad. I’m not ‘sad’ when a mass murderer dies, I wouldn’t have been sad when Hitler died, and I am not sad when a member of a group dedicated to killing innocent people dies. It’s just, and I am not sad about justice being done to an evil person, and I see no evidence that God or the angels are either; after all, God created the government to do just that - why would he be sad when the government does what it is supposed to do?
"rejoicing in" and "not sad that" - tricky semantics
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/5/2008 11:54:08 AM
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mcp
Posts: 109
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For most people it was a chance to thump their chest and make remarks about Arabs...
incredible statement...
of course you missed, for instance, Persians (and since Americans are internationally stupid, Dravidians) who were also the brunt of "most Americans' " hatred. You must be limited at pointing out all the racism that drives our policies. 
...and wrong.
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/5/2008 11:56:40 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7425
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
"rejoicing in" and "not sad that" - tricky semantics
I am not sure how that would be 'tricky' unless you are saying that one can't be glad about an outcome while not being exuberant about the reality that war is a nasty, brutish, and sober activity. That is why we have words, so we can use them.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/5/2008 12:58:29 PM
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mcp
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quote:
I am not sure how that would be 'tricky' unless you are saying that one can't be glad about an outcome while not being exuberant about the reality that war is a nasty, brutish, and sober activity. That is why we have words, so we can use them.
But they are using one set of words and you, the other; how are we to bring about a mutual understanding of where each stands on the death of a terrorist? I guess is why these threads go on and on and on..
Btw, I realize that one can be happy they won a battle without mocking a lost soul.
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/5/2008 1:12:35 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7425
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quote:
But they are using one set of words and you, the other; how are we to bring about a mutual understanding of where each stands on the death of a terrorist? I guess is why these threads go on and on and on..
Btw, I realize that one can be happy they won a battle without mocking a lost soul.
I am not sure who the 'they' is in your comment mcp, though I will say this - when I say I am 'glad' that a terrorist is dead and can no longer perpetuate his terroristic activities, and that it is sad that innocents died in the action, and they say, "How can you celebrate this" or rejoice that he "went to an eternal seperation from our Lord Jesus Christ", they aren't using 'different words', they are being fundamentally dishonest.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/5/2008 5:22:46 PM
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mcp
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'they' being whom you refer to in our last post. Nice guess  I did'n't want to name them to protect the 'fundamentally dishonest'.
Actually, I wouldn't have considered it dishonest of them to argue this way; though, I don't know the history of posters in this forum. I would think it more an inability to see that the same emotional jargon can be used to refer to multiple aspects of an event. A lesser example being: happy someone is with the Lord, yet sad they are no longer on earth. But I cede your point that the fallacy in their arguement wasn't the words but the attributions of those words; it was just that different words were being used as well.
Or like posters here quoting scripture with the word liberal in it; thinking it means Liberal. Now that actually may be fundamentally dishonest.
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/5/2008 5:40:57 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1596
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quote:
Or like posters here quoting scripture with the word liberal in it; thinking it means Liberal. Now that actually may be fundamentally dishonest.
MCP, isnt this dishonest? it was me Tracy that posted Scripture, I wanted to see how the word is used in the Bible. Just like one would look up the words, murder, kill, war in this thread.
I also posted the current dictionary version..
what do you think liberal means, are we all on one page with the meaning?
I get so tired of liberal being thrown around, "well you can't be a Christian your liberal!
When the war comes, the real war, not the one we think G-D would have us to wage, the one between G-D and the enemy, I'm not gonna look for my liberal or conservative friends, I'm gonna look for the Christian.
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/5/2008 6:03:28 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2519
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
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quote:
I'm gonna look for the Christian.
Liberal or conservative?
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/5/2008 6:41:42 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
Liberal or conservative?
Not any of them. liberal, conservative, republican, democrat, black, white, the one who has Christ. A follower of Christ.
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/5/2008 10:05:21 PM
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mcp
Posts: 109
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quote:
MCP, isnt this dishonest? it was me Tracy that posted Scripture, I wanted to see how the word is used in the Bible. Just like one would look up the words, murder, kill, war in this thread.
Hello, Tracy. I don't know how this is dishonest. I had thought that in this and other threads, the liberal definitions had been parsed out. When some of these people on here call others a liberal, they mean this dictionary definition:
Liberal- Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.
You can use the sense of liberal (as illustrated in the Bible) for yourself if you want. That is fine; but that is not the definition of liberal that the others are using. It makes me think about Allen Colmes' book, with a chapter called Jesus was a liberal. That is not true. Jesus was liberal in some senses of the definition. Another confusing thing is that liberal is a comparative term. When it comes to rejecting original scriptures (a 'liberal' act), that is inappropriate in Jesus' view: "I am the way the truth and the Life". Modern liberal churches are defined usually by their rejection of biblical authority, traditional doctrine, or that Christ is Way.
However, when Pharisees tried to force the upholding (a conservative act) of traditional Jewish laws they had created or added to G-d's law , Jesus took a liberal stance (implying there were higher principles than not lifting a hand too high on the Sabbath).
quote:
I also posted the current dictionary version..
what do you think liberal means, are we all on one page with the meaning?
your definition is one definition, but we are not on the same page, because many here see Liberalism (political or spiritual doctrine senses) as a corruption of a good kind of liberal.
quote:
I get so tired of liberal being thrown around, "well you can't be a Christian your liberal!
When the war comes, the real war, not the one we think G-D would have us to wage, the one between G-D and the enemy, I'm not gonna look for my liberal or conservative friends, I'm gonna look for the Christian.
You are right, if people say that first line, that isn't exactly fair; nor can they defend it scripturally; after all, they have to know more about you, and even then are not the final judge on salvation. Yes, it is true that Liberalism as an idealogy which supports abortion rights, among other things that may affront scripture, but that isn't a deal breaker if one is a Liberal, yet saved by grace.
But then, your view on people who believe that wars other than G-d's final war are unjustified, is not fair either; or demands proper reason or biblical justification. It is another subject unto itself, I know, but this OP indirectly has to do with what role a nation's government plays in foreign policy.
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/5/2008 10:53:49 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1596
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quote:
Hello, Tracy. I don't know how this is dishonest. I had thought that in this and other threads, the liberal definitions had been parsed out. When some of these people on here call others a liberal, they mean this dictionary definition:
Liberal- Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.
I'm sure if you had put my name next to your statement it would not have been dishonest.
Ok, then I am not a liberal according to that def. my point was stop throwing "liberal" around, it can be good.
but then I just found out that Don Imus is suppose to be a liberal? I had to be shown where he said he is liberal. I did'nt believe it.
quote:
You can use the sense of liberal (as illustrated in the Bible) for yourself if you want. That is fine; but that is not the definition of liberal that the others are using. It makes me think about Allen Colmes' book, WHO?
quote:
with a chapter called Jesus was a liberal. That is not true. Jesus was liberal in some senses of the definition. Another confusing thing is that liberal is a comparative term. When it comes to rejecting original scriptures (a 'liberal' act), that is inappropriate in Jesus' view: "I am the way the truth and the Life". Modern liberal churches are defined usually by their rejection of biblical authority, traditional doctrine, or that Christ is Way.
However, when Pharisees tried to force the upholding (a conservative act) of traditional Jewish laws they had created or added to G-d's law , Jesus took a liberal stance (implying there were higher principles than not lifting a hand too high on the Sabbath).
Ok somewhere in the middle, like I have said plenty of times. I just know a lot of people that would be considered liberal do NOT fit the political scheme.
ie-AA's do not believe in abortions, or gay marriage as a whole, give more than any group, etc.
quote:
your definition is one definition, but we are not on the same page, because many here see Liberalism (political or spiritual doctrine senses) as a corruption of a good kind of liberal.
That is true. I supposedly live in a liberal state(MN), I don't see them being any better than a conservative, not at all.
quote:
BUT then, your view on people who believe that wars other than G-d's final war are unjustified, is not fair either; or demands proper reason or biblical justification. It is another subject unto itself, I know, but this OP indirectly has to do with what role a nation's government plays in foreign policy.
this is my biblical translation-Jesus lived in a colonized Israel(Romans)
Even though He had the power to "get those" Romans in a war,
He did not. He said turn the other cheek...... I'm simply saying US needs to do!
so we don't kill every guy with a turban on
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/6/2008 12:16:30 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3755
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
this is my biblical translation-Jesus lived in a colonized Israel(Romans)
Even though He had the power to "get those" Romans in a war,
He did not. He said turn the other cheek...... I'm simply saying US needs to do!
so we don't kill every guy with a turban on
Jesus didn't turn the other cheek at Jeriho... It's ok to take out the bad guys... I just question the idea of killing people who are not bad...
John
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/6/2008 12:40:06 AM
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tracydolls
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quote:
Jeriho...
? who
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/6/2008 2:49:26 AM
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TQ_Fan_4_Life
Posts: 3654
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Fort Rucker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
this is my biblical translation-Jesus lived in a colonized Israel(Romans)
Even though He had the power to "get those" Romans in a war,
He did not. He said turn the other cheek...... I'm simply saying US needs to do!
so we don't kill every guy with a turban on
Jesus didn't turn the other cheek at Jeriho... It's ok to take out the bad guys... I just question the idea of killing people who are not bad...
John
and what proof do you have they are good civilians not bad civilians??
_____________________________
Let go of a sanitized Christianity and get back to the powerful, raw and ancient faith that chooses revolution over compromise, peril over safety, and passion over lukewarm and watered-down religion.
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/6/2008 2:52:05 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3755
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Jeriho...
? who
Jericho...
John
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/6/2008 2:53:17 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3755
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TQ_Fan_4_Life
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
this is my biblical translation-Jesus lived in a colonized Israel(Romans)
Even though He had the power to "get those" Romans in a war,
He did not. He said turn the other cheek...... I'm simply saying US needs to do!
so we don't kill every guy with a turban on
Jesus didn't turn the other cheek at Jeriho... It's ok to take out the bad guys... I just question the idea of killing people who are not bad...
John
and what proof do you have they are good civilians not bad civilians??
Proof? The burden of proof isn't on me... It's on those who killed them... That's how it works...
John
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/6/2008 3:01:14 AM
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TQ_Fan_4_Life
Posts: 3654
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Fort Rucker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Beruit
First Twins Towers attack
Somalia
USS Cole
Second Twin Towers
doesn't sound like they wanted to sit down for tea
Us helped Sadaam to fight Iran for 8 years, then we killed him.
Nicagurara-CIA helped those in power torture those inncoent people
Iraq-Desert Storm
Haiti-took their democaratically president. We have ignored them since Jefferson
We joined WW2 when Japan bombed us, but we did not help the Jews for 7 years.
But we don't fight for Sudanese Christians in Darfar.
WE could pick some better fights.
I will argue these points. and then ask a question. we kept Saddam out of Kuwait and taking over a country to continue his genocidal ways in Desert Storm.
first off we did not kill Sadaam. It was Iraqi's that killed him. we actually treated him very well in prison there. don't go by what the C[/ib]ommunist News Network says and how about asking some guys that actually was over there in Iraq. of course the people of his tribe will be upset he was killed. but I am pretty sure the ones that killed him(((of the tribes his main goal was genocide of))) are glad he no longer is in power. Like in the North of Iraq, where they have a booming economy and building a strong industrial base(((this is an area he wanted to"cleanse"))). but no, we had no business there. is funny you asking about why we didn't fight in one area. did you know is Christians in Iraq? but wait, the US gov't is racist I guess because we didn't go there immediately. please. don't insult my intelligence people.
_____________________________
Let go of a sanitized Christianity and get back to the powerful, raw and ancient faith that chooses revolution over compromise, peril over safety, and passion over lukewarm and watered-down religion.
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/6/2008 3:15:57 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3755
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TQ_Fan_4_Life
I will argue these points. and then ask a question. we kept Saddam out of Kuwait and taking over a country to continue his genocidal ways in Desert Storm.
Only because it was in our national interest... Not because we care about his genocidal ways. He was no better when he was fighting Iran prior and we were giving him intel on Iran... He become "Hitler" when he invaded Kuwait, yet he wasn't any different before when we had relations with him... He came into power the same way he went out...
quote:
first off we did not kill Sadaam. It was Iraqi's that killed him. we actually treated him very well in prison there. don't go by what the C[/ib]ommunist News Network says and how about asking some guys that actually was over there in Iraq. of course the people of his tribe will be upset he was killed. but I am pretty sure the ones that killed him(((of the tribes his main goal was genocide of))) are glad he no longer is in power. Like in the North of Iraq, where they have a booming economy and building a strong industrial base(((this is an area he wanted to"cleanse"))). but no, we had no business there. is funny you asking about why we didn't fight in one area. did you know is Christians in Iraq? but wait, the US gov't is racist I guess because we didn't go there immediately. please. don't insult my intelligence people.
Most of the Christian have fled Iraq given that radical Islamic factions are buying for power in Iraq... Tariq Aziz, Sadam's Deputy Prime Minister claimed to be a Christian(go figure...) Even met with the Pope before the first Gulf War was the reason Christians were allowed there...
John
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/6/2008 9:18:42 AM
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TQ_Fan_4_Life
Posts: 3654
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Fort Rucker
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AHEM. once again, what about the genocide he was doing? do you condone it since you won't agree it was wrong
_____________________________
Let go of a sanitized Christianity and get back to the powerful, raw and ancient faith that chooses revolution over compromise, peril over safety, and passion over lukewarm and watered-down religion.
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/6/2008 10:21:38 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3755
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TQ_Fan_4_Life
AHEM. once again, what about the genocide he was doing? do you condone it since you won't agree it was wrong
No more than I condone the genocide against the unborn in this country... I doubt Sadam's body count is even close...
We didn't care about his genocide when he was keeping Iran in check...
We have no moral high ground to stand on to say Sadam is evil, and we have let far greater evil go on than Sadam... Why? Because it wasn't in our national interest to do anything...
John
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RE: US Airstrike in Somalia - 5/6/2008 1:14:59 PM
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TQ_Fan_4_Life
Posts: 3654
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Fort Rucker
Status: offline
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if you dislike America so much, why don't you leave?
no wait, you dislike the military. the ones that give you the very freedom to sit and type the words that talk poorly about me and my brothers and sisters in arms. and for what reason, most likely following what someone else says trying to be cool.
this country ((America)) was founded on religious freedom. and what happened when the British tried to pull them back? a war. for what? Freedom. do you not think the Iraqis are glad for some freedom? do you not think the people of Somalia would love the same thing? to not live under the warlords?
no because it bothers and ruffles your feathers. guess what, deal with it. only a very minor amount of people in America will ever wear the uniform of a soldier/sailor/airman, and they are the true hero's of America. along with the policemen, firemen, and anyone who puts their lives on the line for little or no pay. now instead of badmouthing the military. grow a spine and show support for the ones that give you the freedom.
_____________________________
Let go of a sanitized Christianity and get back to the powerful, raw and ancient faith that chooses revolution over compromise, peril over safety, and passion over lukewarm and watered-down religion.
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