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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/1/2008 7:52:36 PM
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rlj
Posts: 1422
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The original form of government by God wasn't a king or a president or even democracy it was a theocracy with judges. The only guidelines I see in scripture for government are to pray that we can worship freely and peacefully. Democracy is man's invention I believe.
Anyway as to the OP whether or not my family eats is pretty important to me. I also don't see the Republican Party as this group of superior holy and moral people to anyone else.
_____________________________
And the money says 'In God We Trust' but it's against the law to pray in schools... don't ask me for the answers I've only got one, that a man leaves his darkness when he follows the Son.
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/1/2008 11:02:33 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3316
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What about the scriptures I quoted? Your take on them? Have you gone hungry? I never have. I sure did not say anything about Republicans, just how these scriptures mesh with voting on moral issues vs. economical. These seem to be promises of God, and being a Christian, as you are wanted to know your opinion on how scripture backs up voting for economic prosperity vs. moral issues such as, abortion, gay marriage. It says not to worry about food, drink, clothes, whatever, that is what unbelievers do, but do things Gods way, and all these things will be added to you. A baby lost it's life today in Oklahoma, makes me sad, I do not believe that is seeking the Kingdom of God first. I believe these scriptures are ment for the poor also BTW, it does not mention economic status, just said he will provide. I have seen him provide so many times, and I believe his word beyond a shadow of a doubt. I cannot serve two Master either. I will be loyal to one or another.
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
The original form of government by God wasn't a king or a president or even democracy it was a theocracy with judges. The only guidelines I see in scripture for government are to pray that we can worship freely and peacefully. Democracy is man's invention I believe.
Anyway as to the OP whether or not my family eats is pretty important to me. I also don't see the Republican Party as this group of superior holy and moral people to anyone else.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/1/2008 11:31:51 PM
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Leslie35
Posts: 657
Joined: 9/6/2007
From: SW Missouri
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Is there someone running that has any morals?
_____________________________
If I speak with the tongues of angels and have not love I am nothing but a clanging symbol. ~Love is patient and kind, Love is not ill mannered or easily angered.
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/2/2008 12:16:10 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 652
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
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quote:
Is there someone running that has any morals?
No. you have to pick your fights. what is the number one issue with yourself.
If killing is important to you, do you a pick a person that supports abortion, death penalty.
If economics is important to you, do you pick someone close to your economics policy.
If the war is important to you, do you pick someone who is gonna continue it or say they are gonna leave it.
since Death Roe, we have had Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Carter, Bush Clinton, Bush,
the point; voting one way or other does not guarantee Death Roe will go away.
_____________________________
Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/2/2008 12:23:21 AM
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ljmac
Posts: 741
Joined: 11/20/2006
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The two, money and abortion, are NOT separate issues. The lust for money is routinely used an excuse to murder the unborn. I've got to finish HS, go to college, get my career started, protect my other children, etc, so this baby has to die. The love of money is a primary reason people want abortion.
Christians who support abortion are the intellectual great grandchildren of Christians who suppored slavery. They attempt to dehumanize the unborn by comparing them things like kidneys. They dream up catastrophic events about women dying because they can't get an abortion even though nobody wants to ban abortions where the mother's life is truely threatened. They whine about parents and churches needing to be involved while actively supporting pols who insist that children get abortions without parental knowledge.
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/2/2008 12:45:06 AM
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ljmac
Posts: 741
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Christians who support abortion are the intellectual great grandchildren of Christians who suppored slavery.
now I could take this statement and say those that do not feed the children that are not aborted are the great grandchildren, watching them die slowly from starvation, I don't support abortion, If up to me, it would have never been enacted, never still be going, but I am not in control 
I don't think it works. No children starve to death in America because of lack of charity or government programs. If a child starves to death it is because their direct caregivers, parents or otherwise, are grossly negligent.
There are no people actively working to have laws that make it easy to starve children. There were people who wanted laws to make it easy to enslave someone and there are people who hold dear laws that make it easy to kill the unborn.
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/2/2008 12:52:20 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 652
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
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quote:
in America
Key word, america, I tend to look at all the children in the world.
_____________________________
Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/2/2008 1:10:51 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 1846
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
I don't think many Christians believe that anyone has the right to murder a child.
Like it or not that what is comes down to... Killing a child in the womb is murder, no less if were outside the womb... First degree premeditate murder...
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The question is whether the US should have the authority to regulate what goes on inside a person's body. Would you want them to force you to donate a kidney? How 'bout have a chip implanted in your right hand or forehead?
That's not the quesiton but the excuse...
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What if they did it because their life was threatened by the pregnancy? Will self-defense be allowed as a defense at trial?
Only if one can prove the unborn child is willfully attempting to take the mother’s life... Motive?
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We punish thefts here at home but don't punish them on cruise ships- because the government does not have the authority to punish crimes committed on the high seas.
You have something better? That's a matter of jurisdiction, not hypocrisy...
John
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/2/2008 2:09:44 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1107
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Like it or not that what is comes down to... Killing a child in the womb is murder, no less if were outside the womb... First degree premeditate murder...
More likely manslaughter, but I'll let you get away with calling it premeditated murder for now.
In any case, the fact that you don't believe abortion is a right doesn't necessarily mean you have to want the government to make it illegal.
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That's not the quesiton but the excuse...
No- it's a serious question. Many things are more important than life, including freedom. Do we really want the government to have authority over what goes on inside our bodies?
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Only if one can prove the unborn child is willfully attempting to take the mother’s life...
Well, since it's a human being it must know that it is killing its mother by keeping her pregnant.
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You have something better? That's a matter of jurisdiction, not hypocrisy...
Exactly, and something that most libertarians also don't want under the US's jurisdiction is our bodies.
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/2/2008 8:22:30 AM
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WesP
Posts: 1524
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From: Where God needs me to be
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quote:
Well, since it's a human being it must know that it is killing its mother by keeping her pregnant.
What is your purpose in stating this? Are you attempting to deny humanity to unborn children based on this statement? If so, consider the abilities of developmentally disabled individuals who can never have this amount of mental capacity. Are they not human beings? It would seem by your statement that they are not.
_____________________________
Peace,
Wes
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/2/2008 8:23:42 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3316
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Hi, everyone I am more interested in what you think of the Biblical view, everyone is ignoring these verses, I know this is not theology 101, but it is a main and plain question for Christians, I have heard say economic reasons take precedence over moral issues.
< Message edited by lightshineon -- 5/2/2008 8:35:38 AM >
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/2/2008 9:27:26 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1107
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
quote:
Well, since it's a human being it must know that it is killing its mother by keeping her pregnant.
What is your purpose in stating this? Are you attempting to deny humanity to unborn children based on this statement? If so, consider the abilities of developmentally disabled individuals who can never have this amount of mental capacity. Are they not human beings? It would seem by your statement that they are not.
I never said it wasn't human.
I just said that if a pregnancy threatens the mother's life, she should have the right to end it under any circumstances. I'm not saying she should end it, but don't you think she should have that option if her other option is to die from medical complications?
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 5/2/2008 9:34:20 AM >
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/2/2008 9:37:27 AM
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freakofnature
Posts: 323
Joined: 1/17/2008
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The OP question was to vote either Morals/ethics or personal economics. I don't really know if I want to get involved in this conversation but my opinion is that you have to vote morals/ethics first, economics will follow naturally if the morals/ethics of those voted into office are on the up and up.
Blessedinnyc my friend...Abortion is murder, you have agreed with that, it isn't a matter of "government intervention over our bodies" it is government protecting the sanctitiy of life. And I am not sure about what you mean when you say that freedom is more important than life? I don't know about that one. I don't think there is anything more important than the life God gives to each of and everyone. Just me tho???
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/2/2008 10:44:57 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3316
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Thank you, Fon, for taking a stand I do not understand everyones reluctance to deal with truth. Early Christians took a stand on God's word, and gave their lives for truth. FON, I like your response it is truth, God's word says "And all these things shall be added to you."This is a Christian forum, and this is our faith, to believe God's word. I may get in trouble for this, but I am not getting eaten by lions.  BTW I am not judging those who disagree, I am humble enough to understand I am not always right, these verses came to me, when the baby was murdered yesterday. I do not know why, seriously just take it for what it is worth or not.
quote:
ORIGINAL: freakofnature
The OP question was to vote either Morals/ethics or personal economics. I don't really know if I want to get involved in this conversation but my opinion is that you have to vote morals/ethics first, economics will follow naturally if the morals/ethics of those voted into office are on the up and up.
Blessedinnyc my friend...Abortion is murder, you have agreed with that, it isn't a matter of "government intervention over our bodies" it is government protecting the sanctitiy of life. And I am not sure about what you mean when you say that freedom is more important than life? I don't know about that one. I don't think there is anything more important than the life God gives to each of and everyone. Just me tho???
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/2/2008 10:53:51 AM
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choose2live
Posts: 6
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Vote the way God would vote and He'll take care of everything else. God wouldnt be concerned about economics. Moral and ethical standards are what is important. We need to make sure we have decent, like minded people governing us and from there just trust the LORD.
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/2/2008 11:58:01 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3316
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Guess what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! good news prayer works, the girl got to the clinic, and changed her mind, did not murder her baby. I stand by scripture I gave, yes amen is. God is good.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/2/2008 12:51:07 PM
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Leslie35
Posts: 657
Joined: 9/6/2007
From: SW Missouri
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Oh wonderful!! You know I am starting to come to the realization that abortion will never be illegal in this country. There are just too many people including christians who are for it. I am not by the way I think it is horrible! I do not think a single president can stop abortion either. I think people need to reach out to people in their own family. Parents need to make their sons accountable if they get a girl pregnant then they need to take responsibility for it. Talking a girl into an abortion is not responsible it is selfish. Girls need to be taught that no matter what mom and dad are there. I wonder how many girls run off to get abortions so they will not get into trouble. It would be great if we got rid of abortion not by laws but by lack of business.
_____________________________
If I speak with the tongues of angels and have not love I am nothing but a clanging symbol. ~Love is patient and kind, Love is not ill mannered or easily angered.
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/2/2008 1:01:22 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 652
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
Status: offline
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quote:
I wonder how many girls run off to get abortions so they will not get into trouble. It would be great if we got rid of abortion not by laws but by lack of business.
ding, ding, ding,
_____________________________
Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/2/2008 2:21:08 PM
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Evangel70
Posts: 242
Joined: 10/28/2006
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quote:
Hi, everyone I am more interested in what you think of the Biblical view, everyone is ignoring these verses, I know this is not theology 101, but it is a main and plain question for Christians, I have heard say economic reasons take precedence over moral issues.
Lightshineon, perhaps a little clarification is needed. Are you asking whether or not the bible calls Christians to vote based on certain characteristics?
Because our American political system is secular in nature, we are not voting for a head of the "church" or for some type of pope. We are voting for someone who will uphold the law of the land (which by it's very nature is changable) and abide by the guidelines set forth in our consitutional governmental system. Of course, we want such a leader to be "moral" but he or she must first be competent and qualified for the job. No political role or position will EVER point us to Jesus.
If you read your bible, you will not see a single example where God comanded his people to have a political say in the government of the countries they were in. As Peter, Paul and the early church fathers were planting churches wherever they went, they gave no instructions or commands as to which whom they should have in the Roman senate or which Ceasar they should support. There is a reason for that. The kingdoms of man have NOTHING to do with the kingdom of God.
So what are we to do? Pray that God will give you guidance as to whom to vote for whomever you believe will do the best job. God is ultimately in control anyway so He will always have the last say. 
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/2/2008 2:30:41 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3316
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Well the scriptures tell us, the ones quoted what he expects of us, though the goverment is secular believers are not. The verse said worrying about food, drink, clothes is what pagans do, we are to seek God, and his kingdom first, and all these things will be added to us. Yes God will have his way, he is soverign, and will put kings on thrones and take them down, but we are not, so we do his kingdom first, as instructed by his word.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
quote:
Hi, everyone I am more interested in what you think of the Biblical view, everyone is ignoring these verses, I know this is not theology 101, but it is a main and plain question for Christians, I have heard say economic reasons take precedence over moral issues.
Lightshineon, perhaps a little clarification is needed. Are you asking whether or not the bible calls Christians to vote based on certain characteristics?
Because our American political system is secular in nature, we are not voting for a head of the "church" or for some type of pope. We are voting for someone who will uphold the law of the land (which by it's very nature is changable) and abide by the guidelines set forth in our consitutional governmental system. Of course, we want such a leader to be "moral" but he or she must first be competent and qualified for the job. No political role or position will EVER point us to Jesus.
If you read your bible, you will not see a single example where God comanded his people to have a political say in the government of the countries they were in. As Peter, Paul and the early church fathers were planting churches wherever they went, they gave no instructions or commands as to which whom they should have in the Roman senate or which Ceasar they should support. There is a reason for that. The kingdoms of man have NOTHING to do with the kingdom of God.
So what are we to do? Pray that God will give you guidance as to whom to vote for whomever you believe will do the best job. God is ultimately in control anyway so He will always have the last say.
< Message edited by lightshineon -- 5/2/2008 2:39:45 PM >
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/2/2008 4:31:26 PM
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Leslie35
Posts: 657
Joined: 9/6/2007
From: SW Missouri
Status: offline
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You know a few years ago I would have said we need to vote for those conservative Republicans because they are the most moral in the government. Well the few scandals involving sex with minors and bathroom tapdanding surrounding moral conservative republicans leads me to believe that polititions just do a song and dance for the people they are trying to win votes from. It really seems that in the end it doesnt even matter any more.
I was at the annual church hayride one October evening when the subject of pregnant highschool girls came up between two women who both work for a high school. The music teacher thought girls who run out and get pregnant need to be ignored so they will be ashamed for what they have done but the other thought that doing so would only encourage young girls to have abortions to avoid the shame.
_____________________________
If I speak with the tongues of angels and have not love I am nothing but a clanging symbol. ~Love is patient and kind, Love is not ill mannered or easily angered.
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RE: Single Issue vs Big Picture Voters - 5/2/2008 5:39:29 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 652
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
Status: offline
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I don't struggle with the issue of abortion, It is wrong. but I have come to the realization that it is a law that I can not change, from the looks of it, who can. I wanna talk to Him. Are there other laws on the books I would like to change, yes!!!!
there's an morally wrong law in this country that has been going on for years. Out of the 2 votes I have cast, one was for a local guy that said he was gonna work to change this law.
It's finally getting looked at. This law. Do I like this guys religion, no, I pray he comes to Christ. Like I say that same prayer for myself and everyone.
His name is Keith Ellison, he is a moslem. And a senator from MN.
He is helping to get the law reversed of if you get caught with 1 oz of crack cocaine.vs. 1000 ozs of powder cocaine. You get more time.
A terrible law. a little water and baking soda turns the 1000 ozs. powder into 10000's ozs. of crack. It is crazy.
It was an unjust law. Targeted at blacks. It is hurting our community for young kids to get 30 years, no second chances, to see men leaving home and never coming back. Trying to do what the world is saying: GET money.
do I follow Keith for his theology, No. I follow Christ. do I expect Keith to do his job as a politicion and keep his promises, yes.
I don't trust none of them. I'm not casting a vote this year. I've realized that we are an immoral nation, and noone got the top hat on it.
1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
At this point I'm in fear.
< Message edited by tracydolls -- 5/2/2008 5:46:16 PM >
_____________________________
Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
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