RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame?

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freakofnature -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/13/2008 11:04:46 AM)
quote: Actually, we are about to bury enough U-238 in Yucca Mountain to power the US, at current levels of energy consumption, for 200 years. Of course, it would take about $1 Trillion worth of infrastructure to do this. If we were to have a $2/gallon tax on both diesel and gasoline for three years, we could pay for it all. At the end of the day, the NIMBYs may be at fault for blocking solutions, but it's ultimately consumption and an entitlement mentality about $1.25/gallon gasoline that are the problems. Once a tax always a tax. So just throw on $2.00 more a gallon and watch the American economy come to a screeching HALT. No one will go anywhere. We couldn't afford to even go to work. If these nuclear power plants can come on line by 2015, there will be a huge drop in demand. Prices of Oil would be greatly reduced. But I blame: 1) Global Warming Alarmist 2) Washington (dems and spineless repubs) 3) THE RICH (Just for comedic purposes) 4) Oil Companies, (just to feel like I am on the bandwagon although I don't really blame them) 5) CHINA AND RUSSIA 6) Hollywood, media and elitist scuzz (for aiding and ebedding in the culture of consumerism) I don't blame 1) American men and women just trying to live their lives, just like all of the rest of us.

blessedinnyc -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/13/2008 11:53:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freakofnature Once a tax always a tax. So just throw on $2.00 more a gallon and watch the American economy come to a screeching HALT. No one will go anywhere. We couldn't afford to even go to work. It would be like a tax on stagecoach horses. And of course people could afford to go to work. $1.25/gallon gas is not an entitlement; neither is $3.50/gallon tax. quote: If these nuclear power plants can come on line by 2015, there will be a huge drop in demand. Prices of Oil would be greatly reduced. The five nuclear plants coming online in 2015 would represent about a 5% increase in generation capacity. This is roughly 0.45% of the US's energy consumption, or about half the wind production capacity the state of Texas has installed in the past three years. More importantly, though, how do we make the electricity produced by these plants an effective substitute for gasoline? quote: I don't blame 1) American men and women just trying to live their lives, just like all of the rest of us. I hate to state the unpopular but obvious truth, but these people consume gasoline. There is no entitlement in this country to getting anything at a certain price, so if these people consider $3.50/gallon gasoline a problem, it is their problem, not the government's. The government can help a bit by opening up ANWR or help a lot by helping us improve efficiency or transition us off oil, but it's not the government's job to supply cheap gas.

Sophie11 -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/13/2008 12:01:45 PM)
While it may be each individual persons problem that they cannot afford the prices of gas, it is the governments rules and regulations that get in the way of fixing the problem. So yes the government is partly to blame.

HighPlainsDrifter -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/13/2008 12:02:19 PM)
quote: It would be like a tax on stagecoach horses. And of course people could afford to go to work. $1.25/gallon gas is not an entitlement; neither is $3.50/gallon tax. Good thing it's not up to you to decide what the people can and cannot afford.

mapachito13 -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/13/2008 12:22:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc quote: ORIGINAL: freakofnature Once a tax always a tax. So just throw on $2.00 more a gallon and watch the American economy come to a screeching HALT. No one will go anywhere. We couldn't afford to even go to work. It would be like a tax on stagecoach horses. And of course people could afford to go to work. $1.25/gallon gas is not an entitlement; neither is $3.50/gallon tax. I saw an interesting story on this morning's newscast about how the struggling economy AND high gas prices are keeping more people off the freeways thus reducing people's commutes on certain freeways. Let's raise the price of gas to 10 bucks a gallon and it'll be smooth sailing from now on. [;)] quote: quote: If these nuclear power plants can come on line by 2015, there will be a huge drop in demand. Prices of Oil would be greatly reduced. The five nuclear plants coming online in 2015 would represent about a 5% increase in generation capacity. This is roughly 0.45% of the US's energy consumption, or about half the wind production capacity the state of Texas has installed in the past three years. More importantly, though, how do we make the electricity produced by these plants an effective substitute for gasoline? My brother and I were talking about this the other weekend and he brought up an interesting point. If we ran our nuclear generation facilities like the French, (yes I am serious) we actually would make nuclear power generation more economical and we would cut the time it takes for the fuel rods to become inert from centuries to decades. You're right that five nukes won't make as much of a difference but fifty would. quote: quote: I don't blame 1) American men and women just trying to live their lives, just like all of the rest of us. I hate to state the unpopular but obvious truth, but these people consume gasoline. There is no entitlement in this country to getting anything at a certain price, so if these people consider $3.50/gallon gasoline a problem, it is their problem, not the government's. The government can help a bit by opening up ANWR or help a lot by helping us improve efficiency or transition us off oil, but it's not the government's job to supply cheap gas. Oil is the most strategic asset a country has. I think that the government's job is to make sure that certain companies aren't manipulating the supply of this strategic asset to insure that the economy is well oiled (pun intended). Also it should be enacting legislation to insure that vehicle manufacturers are not wasting this resource by continuing to make inefficient designs. Wind energy is one of the least efficient and most land inefficient forms of power generation. And that's not mentioning the tens of thousands of birds that it kills every year; chopped up in their rotor blades. So truthfully it is NOT environmentally friendly.

blessedinnyc -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/13/2008 2:24:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 I saw an interesting story on this morning's newscast about how the struggling economy AND high gas prices are keeping more people off the freeways thus reducing people's commutes on certain freeways. Let's raise the price of gas to 10 bucks a gallon and it'll be smooth sailing from now on. [;)] I really think, though, that if we don't do something about gas now, it will be the equivalent of $5-$10/gallon in ten years. If we can transition to plug-in hybrids, we can save ourselves a bundle in the long-run. If you can't afford $5 gas now, you probably won't be able to afford $10 gas in ten years. Let's just get this over with. quote: My brother and I were talking about this the other weekend and he brought up an interesting point. If we ran our nuclear generation facilities like the French, (yes I am serious) we actually would make nuclear power generation more economical and we would cut the time it takes for the fuel rods to become inert from centuries to decades. Well, there have been some criticisms that breeder reactors- used for recycling fuel- are expensive to operate, but I do think that if U-235 gets expensive enough, it might make sense. I will say that we have to plan out the design of the reactor very carefully and site it in a place that won't affect the economy too badly if anything happens. I would be perfectly fine living next door to a western LWR. I'm not sure if I'd want to live next door to France's Phoenix breeder reactor. One of the main problems with breeder reactors is that you can't convert U-238 to Pu-239 using a water-moderated reaction. This provides a lot of inherent safety most commercial nuclear plants- the reactor needs a moderator to operate, and the laws of physics gaurantee that no matter what happens, if the reactor loses coolant, it shuts down. An example where a reactor lost coolant but didn't shut down would be Chernobyl, and one of the things that kept TMI from turning into a disaster was the fact that the reaction shut down immediately. So this inherent safety feature is something that we should think very carefully about before we start building breeder reactors. However, if we can make breeders about as safe as existing reactors, I'm all for it. quote: Oil is the most strategic asset a country has. I think that the government's job is to make sure that certain companies aren't manipulating the supply of this strategic asset to insure that the economy is well oiled (pun intended). Also it should be enacting legislation to insure that vehicle manufacturers are not wasting this resource by continuing to make inefficient designs. That's a great point, but I think it's much more likely that countries would manipulate supply than companies. The five largest oil firms produce less than the single largest producer in OPEC. quote: Wind energy is one of the least efficient and most land inefficient forms of power generation. And that's not mentioning the tens of thousands of birds that it kills every year; chopped up in their rotor blades. So truthfully it is NOT environmentally friendly. But it's cheap to build and people can make money doing it. Wind energy is an example of hard assets that the country really needs more of to get ourselves out of this inflation cycle we seem to be entering.

freakofnature -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/13/2008 2:41:19 PM)
quote: I hate to state the unpopular but obvious truth, but these people consume gasoline. There is no entitlement in this country to getting anything at a certain price, so if these people consider $3.50/gallon gasoline a problem, it is their problem, not the government's. The government can help a bit by opening up ANWR or help a lot by helping us improve efficiency or transition us off oil, but it's not the government's job to supply cheap gas. So you propose to make it the governments problem by adding another $50.00 to the already strained weekly budget of American families trying to survive as it is. Food cost, on the rise, health cost, on the rise, education cost on the rise, American workers payday declining because of the tax debt. But at least you have the sensible idea to open up ANWR. I am all free market, I am not a proponet of any more taxes. I agree that there is an entitlement problem with most American citizens. But you live in NYC (according to your signon name) You have everything you need with in a short walk maybe a bicycle ride. Those living in smalltown middle America and running farms and family owned hardware stores don't have that luxury. But that is okay who needs the religious small minded gun tottin' bible thumpin middle American's anyway. If they were smart, they would move to the big city. sarc/off

freakofnature -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/13/2008 2:52:41 PM)
quote: And of course people could afford to go to work. They could afford to go to work, but by the time they filled up the gas in the automobile at say the current amount of $4.00/gallon, a 15 gallon tank that is $60.00 so add another $30.00 in taxes ( BTW is this on top of the already $.40 per gallon tax we currently suffer through)??? Eitherway now we are talking about $90.00 to fill up your car. $90.00 to you in NY may be just another $90.00. To me, father of 4, living modestly in a 3 bedroom house in a small town in Florida that is called a burden. $360/month in gas. Now I have to make a choice between my kid playing football at $85/month x 2 boys so $170 /month or getting gas to get to work. Then my two daughters, tennis and soccer do I pay for their soccer stuff and tennis raquets, tennis shoes/balls and other required items or gas for my car. I know for you living in NY who cares. For me and countless others it is a heartwrenching decission. My boys have aspirations of playing in the NFL, do I take away that dream by taking them out of sports because I can't afford to get them to practice, get them to their games, get them the uniforms and supplies just so I can pay $90.00 a week for gas. I know I know, entitlements. No I am not encouraging the entitlement argument, I am encouraging the "We have to drill for our own oil now until a suitable replacement is in place and affordable" argument. Tell me blessed, what is my choice? Football/soccer/tennis or gas money??? Your choice... I know decissions decissions, tough. How many kids you got blessed????

SteveSund -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/13/2008 2:59:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sophie11 So even through this maybe you say that we are still to blame. Fine. But then let me ask you what should we do then? We have never had much, we have enough just not any extra! [:D] But we have been living the same as everyone else in this country long before the gas prices went sky high. So when they did, we had no money to buy the expensive housing closer to my husbands job. And with what money would you have us buy a hybrid? We have a small 4 door car that gets pretty good gas mileage, and no payment (which is the best thing about that car!). What more should we do? I think you are already doing a lot. I am certainly not suggesting that people give up their cars and ride horses or bikes. I am also not suggesting that everyone move right by where they work. I think people should take steps to lower their consumption that are feasible and realistic. My next car will probably be one that gets decent mileage. My BIL makes fun of our minivan, but it gets way better mileage than his Chevy Tahoe. quote: I am encouraging the "We have to drill for our own oil now until a suitable replacement is in place and affordable" argument. Even optimistic predictions from ANWR won't put that much of a dent in the price of oil. With how much it is costing, do you really think that people aren't trying to get oil onto the market?

blessedinnyc -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/13/2008 3:22:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freakofnature So you propose to make it the governments problem by adding another $50.00 to the already strained weekly budget of American families trying to survive as it is. If they can't make it with $5/gallon gas now, they won't be able to survive $5/gallon gas in five years. Let's get it over with now, while inflation isn't totally out of control, yet.

freakofnature -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/13/2008 3:44:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc ORIGINAL: freakofnature So you propose to make it the governments problem by adding another $50.00 to the already strained weekly budget of American families trying to survive as it is. quote: If they can't make it with $5/gallon gas now, they won't be able to survive $5/gallon gas in five years. Let's get it over with now, while inflation isn't totally out of control, yet. So just to make sure the knife is in all the way and well we can't afford it anyway, let's just throw on $2.00/gallon more. That is great domestic policy. I heard the president of an airline the other day saying that soon, travel will once again be a thing for the superrich. Well, it seems going to work and trying to live will be a thing of the superrich to with $2.40/gallon taxes. Why bother???

blessedinnyc -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/13/2008 3:50:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freakofnature So just to make sure the knife is in all the way and well we can't afford it anyway, let's just throw on $2.00/gallon more. That is great domestic policy. I heard the president of an airline the other day saying that soon, travel will once again be a thing for the superrich. Well, it seems going to work and trying to live will be a thing of the superrich to with $2.40/gallon taxes. Why bother??? First, it's $2/gallon. Second off, if you can't afford $5/gallon now, you certainly won't be able to in five years. Third, we should gas prices peak at $5/gallon, not $10. And when gas prices are at $10/gallon, people like you will still be resisting the extra $2/gallon it will take to replace oil. We need a solution, and the only solution is replacing our existing infrastructure so that we don't have to depend on Iran being nice to run the country.

freakofnature -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/13/2008 4:18:38 PM)
quote: First, it's $2/gallon. I asked you earlier is this on top of the taxes already applied??? quote: Second off, if you can't afford $5/gallon now, you certainly won't be able to in five years. I don't know where I will be in 5 years, do you? If we deflate the economy by adding another tax liability, you are right, I would not be able to afford $5.00/gallon in 5 years, because we will all be out of work. I will hopefully be close enough to a soup line that I can walk. AND you aren't taking into consideration the cost of any other products and services. Food is on the rise, health care, education. Also, gas won't be $5.00 a gallon in 5 years it will be $15.00/gallon, so it is okay to make it $17.00/gallon because.... well why not, your already paying through the nose. quote: Third, we should gas prices peak at $5/gallon, not $10. I'm sorry??? UHHH??? WHAT??? quote: And when gas prices are at $10/gallon, people like you will still be resisting the extra $2/gallon it will take to replace oil. We need a solution, and the only solution is replacing our existing infrastructure so that we don't have to depend on Iran being nice to run the country I happen to agree with this statement.. in principal. It is the how I am concerned with. Why do we have to raise taxes. Why can't they... CUT SPENDING??? In other areas. I think you and I have had this argument/discussion before. It is all dejavu!!!

relady -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/13/2008 6:29:30 PM)
quote: The problem is that demand has not risen very much at all, relatively, in the past decade or two, yet gas prices have almost quadrupled in the past twenty years. Demand isn't the answer. Oh, but demand in China and India HAS increased dramatically, and the supply and demand for oil is GLOBAL, not local. It affects us negatively even when it's not OUR demand going up. The only answer is to decrease our demand dramatically, as in getting off foreign oil first and then getting off oil altogether. quote: We have the eneegy reserves to be oil independent for over 50 years and in that time could develop alternative energy sources. Perhaps, but most of our reserves are reserved for a reason.....military use being the main one. They are not going to open up all our reserves to the average consumer. Ever. quote: I wonder how families managed before the invention of mini vans. well, my parents squeezed 3 kids and 2 adults into a VW beetle, LOL. We are very spoiled.

blessedinnyc -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/13/2008 6:45:33 PM)
quote: I asked you earlier is this on top of the taxes already applied??? Only on the state. For the federal, I don't see why we should be building new highways while gas prices are starting to make commuting and travel cost-prohibitive for some folks. quote: I don't know where I will be in 5 years, do you? If we deflate the economy by adding another tax liability, you are right, I would not be able to afford $5.00/gallon in 5 years, because we will all be out of work. I will hopefully be close enough to a soup line that I can walk. AND you aren't taking into consideration the cost of any other products and services. Food is on the rise, health care, education. Also, gas won't be $5.00 a gallon in 5 years it will be $15.00/gallon, so it is okay to make it $17.00/gallon because.... well why not, your already paying through the nose. But why waste all that money for those five years? Why not start coming up with a solution now? The market will eventually come up with a solution, but I think that the government in this case can help speed it up a bit. There's a lot of investments out there that are too big for even Exxon, General Electric, or GM alone to make (IE: we'd need roughly 300 new nuclear plants and about 100 million new plug-in hybrids to largely get off of foreign oil.) America is in much better shape today than it was back in 1974 in terms of energy costs. Even if we had $5/gallon gas, fuel expenses would still make up a smaller proportion of GDP than it did 33 years ago. And if we make this investment now, it will pay off big time in ten years. quote: I'm sorry??? UHHH??? WHAT??? We should let gas prices peak at $5/gallon instead of $10. The market is concerned right now because it really doesn't know how the economy will get energy in the future. As a result, we have runaway oil prices. If the federal government so much as comes up with a plan for getting off oil, we can expect longer-term oil futures to decrease in value, which will in turn help lower oil prices. Of course, we have to do things right. quote: I happen to agree with this statement.. in principal. It is the how I am concerned with. Why do we have to raise taxes. Why can't they... CUT SPENDING??? In other areas. I think you and I have had this argument/discussion before. It is all dejavu!!! Ok, so we have a $200 Billion/year budget deficit. Most spending goes towards entitlement spending- stuff like Medicare and Social Security. Much of the rest goes towards childrens' health insurance, WIC coupons for single-mothers who decide not to get abortions, and military spending. Pork spending makes up less than 1% of the federal budget. I'm all for cutting pork, but there's not a whole lot to cut. One option is raising taxes. Another option is directly taxing those who would benefit from lower energy prices- people who buy gasoline and diesel fuel.

jemaevan -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/13/2008 8:53:32 PM)
There are mutliple reasons: Politicians in Washington, Enviromentalists who are against any type of new energy development be it nuclear, wind farms, water. Higher demand in China and India, while supply has not increased. One article states China's oil consumption would rise by 1/2 a million barrels per day by 2006 or 38 percent of the total increase in world demand. Per the energy departments article " Petroleum Products Consumption" in 2005 the USA used 20.8 million barrels per day, 60 % from imports. Oil is not only used for gasoline, it's also used for: synthetic fibres. rubber, detergents, fertilizers, kerosene, heating fuel, jet fuel, plastics and asphalt. Another interesting article at the energy dept. website is: "A Primer on Gasoline Prices"

ToolmanUF -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/13/2008 11:31:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freakofnature quote: And of course people could afford to go to work. They could afford to go to work, but by the time they filled up the gas in the automobile at say the current amount of $4.00/gallon, a 15 gallon tank that is $60.00 so add another $30.00 in taxes ( BTW is this on top of the already $.40 per gallon tax we currently suffer through)??? Eitherway now we are talking about $90.00 to fill up your car. $90.00 to you in NY may be just another $90.00. To me, father of 4, living modestly in a 3 bedroom house in a small town in Florida that is called a burden. $360/month in gas. Now I have to make a choice between my kid playing football at $85/month x 2 boys so $170 /month or getting gas to get to work. Then my two daughters, tennis and soccer do I pay for their soccer stuff and tennis raquets, tennis shoes/balls and other required items or gas for my car. I know for you living in NY who cares. For me and countless others it is a heartwrenching decission. Freakofnature, I understand your situation very well. I am from Florida, the Tampa/St. Petersburg area. And while I definitely feel sorry for the financial burden that people in Florida and other states will be facing with the rise in gas prices, this country has brought it on itself. Florida as a whole does a HORRIBLE job at providing transportation options for its citizens. In the sprawling Tampa Bay area there is hardly a lick of public transportation, 8 lane highways criss-cross the city, and it is nearly impossible to walk or ride a bike anywhere. One day when I was studying at UF, as I was driving from Tampa to Gainesville I counted how many people were driving SUVs and it seemed like 1 out of 3. This is the way that Florida has let its growth unfold, and it is a very unsustainable growth and eventually the gas prices will not allow people to maintain it. But, nothing is done about it. So many peope still drive SUVS, and everytime there is an initiative to build intercity trains or innercity lightrails or bus-only traffic lanes, people vote it down. So many cities in the US have much better transit options than Florida, which has none. Of course the big cities like NY, DC, and Chicago offer them but there are some other smaller ones that offer some options, like Portland, Seattle, and somebody told me that even Dallas and Houston are beginning to develop light rail systems. And, when I was in Gainesville, I used the bus system a lot, often choosing to take the bus to go downtown or to the mall because I knew that it was a lot less expensive than driving my own car. (Plus, I could read while I traveled!) Florida will continue to suffer until the state as a whole helps to reduce the extreme dependence on the automobile that the state suffers from.

mapachito13 -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/14/2008 4:43:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc Well, there have been some criticisms that breeder reactors- used for recycling fuel- are expensive to operate, but I do think that if U-235 gets expensive enough, it might make sense. I will say that we have to plan out the design of the reactor very carefully and site it in a place that won't affect the economy too badly if anything happens. I would be perfectly fine living next door to a western LWR. I'm not sure if I'd want to live next door to France's Phoenix breeder reactor. One of the main problems with breeder reactors is that you can't convert U-238 to Pu-239 using a water-moderated reaction. This provides a lot of inherent safety most commercial nuclear plants- the reactor needs a moderator to operate, and the laws of physics gaurantee that no matter what happens, if the reactor loses coolant, it shuts down. An example where a reactor lost coolant but didn't shut down would be Chernobyl, and one of the things that kept TMI from turning into a disaster was the fact that the reaction shut down immediately. So this inherent safety feature is something that we should think very carefully about before we start building breeder reactors. However, if we can make breeders about as safe as existing reactors, I'm all for it. Well, I haven't heard of any incidents in France for as long as I can remember so someone there must have it right. Or maybe they hide all that radioactivity in their cheese! quote: That's a great point, but I think it's much more likely that countries would manipulate supply than companies. The five largest oil firms produce less than the single largest producer in OPEC. You do make a good point there! We do need to get to a point where we can tell the House of Saud what they can do with their oil. But that takes our government telling our automakers and energy producers to produce more with less. But we'll have to tackle campaign finance reform before that to reduce the clout of the moneyed interest in this political game that is starting to have major economic consequences because we refused to learn from 1973.

garsyt -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/14/2008 8:15:07 AM)
quote: They could afford to go to work, but by the time they filled up the gas in the automobile at say the current amount of $4.00/gallon, a 15 gallon tank that is $60.00 so add another $30.00 in taxes ( BTW is this on top of the already $.40 per gallon tax we currently suffer through)??? Eitherway now we are talking about $90.00 to fill up your car. $90.00 to you in NY may be just another $90.00. To me, father of 4, living modestly in a 3 bedroom house in a small town in Florida that is called a burden. $360/month in gas. Now I have to make a choice between my kid playing football at $85/month x 2 boys so $170 /month or getting gas to get to work. Then my two daughters, tennis and soccer do I pay for their soccer stuff and tennis raquets, tennis shoes/balls and other required items or gas for my car. I know for you living in NY who cares. For me and countless others it is a heartwrenching decission. My boys have aspirations of playing in the NFL, do I take away that dream by taking them out of sports because I can't afford to get them to practice, get them to their games, get them the uniforms and supplies just so I can pay $90.00 a week for gas. I know I know, entitlements. No I am not encouraging the entitlement argument, I am encouraging the "We have to drill for our own oil now until a suitable replacement is in place and affordable" argument. Tell me blessed, what is my choice? Football/soccer/tennis or gas money??? Your choice... I know decissions decissions, tough. How many kids you got blessed???? Freakofnature - Just wanted to let you know that I'm with you on this. Having 4 children and live itn itty bitty small town Indiana. We've already had to cut out golf, tennis and swimming lessons this summer - and the sad thing is that the lessons themselves were free- we simply can't afford the gas money it would take to get the kids to the lessons at a park in a neighboring bigger city 3 days a week. My kids do scouts - which is done for the year except for one more meeting for my eldest dd and summer camp for the girls (which they earned 90% of by selling cookies til they had absolutely no more time to sell.). I have two that do basketball in the winter (thankfully at a church down the street so transportation isn't an issue), and one doing soccer this spring (again at the church). My eldest ds acts in school plays - and I'm not sure yet how that will work since he is moving on up to high school this next fall - but in Middle school I had to go nd pick him up every day for month after play practice! He also volunteers roughly 60 hours every summer at a nearby zoo. My eldest dd wants to be involved in her schools flag and rifle team in the fall too. It is SO hard to look at your children - see their desires and dreams in their eyes and then look at the budget and know that you are going to have to make some serious decisions that might hurt. And before one thinks my children are spoiled little brats that get anything they ask for - Think again. We don't really have the luxury of having decent shopping even for groceries, within 10 miles. The nearest gas station is roughly 8 miles away. My husband when he was employeed worked at a factory 20 miles away. AND DON'T talk to me about finding either a job closer to home or a home closer to the job - in this economy we simply can't afford to move either - and are looking into jobs closer to home, although that might not be easy to do. Layoff's STINK! Especally when the prediction is that it may be for at LEAST a year now. One also has to factor in that unemployment is at an ALL TIME high in many states. And it's not like these are temporary job losses with folks called back in a month or two. These are LONG TERM losses with companies shipping jobs off overseas. Blessings, Garsy

freakofnature -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/14/2008 8:51:51 AM)
quote: live itn itty bitty small town Indiana What county you live in? I am from Decatur/Shelby County, Southeast of Marion County/Indianapolis.

mcp -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/14/2008 3:26:58 PM)
quote: Well, I haven't heard of any incidents in France for as long as I can remember so someone there must have it right. Or maybe they hide all that radioactivity in their cheese! Smells like they hide something in their cheese... Well, I've been reading/listening a little on oil debates. It appears that there is a growing contention that speculation is the sole culprit in the rushing fuel prices. There are other dynamics and this contention isn't cut and dried. But the last congressional meeting seemed to conclude that oil demand is modest in growth and supplies are heavy. I read somewhere else that projections for 2008 shows US demand down 200K b/d and China up 400K b/d. In a combined market of over 28M b/d, that is less than 1% uptick in demand for two major/main users that import heavily. Supplies appear to be up not just in strategic reserves, but in additional crudes and gasoline reserves as well. All this with the reduction and profit losses in refining in the US. Some of the profit strains on the refiners is the regulation to ultralow sulfer diesel; they would rather refine a traditional distillate diesel to export. Also, I know personally that different grades of oil sit stockpiled in floating assets (ships/ barges). I read an article earlier today that stated that Iran has had problems with land storage of their crude and are holding ships full of sour crude. The same article also suggested that despite just meeting over the oil pricing matter, congress plans to convene again in June. I suspect that Enron type media/speculator activities will be pointed at again. I have believed for some time that gasoline/diesel prices were under priced based on the inflation of other commodities and real wage rates. In 2003, I was buying diesel for 99 cents/gal. Then I think when Katrina and Rita hit, it caught on that media news events could drive oil up. One thing we can be thankful for though: 2002: $20/barrel of oil = $1/gallon of unleaded 2008: $125/barrel of oil = $3.50/gallon of unleaded

blessedinnyc -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/14/2008 4:09:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mcp I read somewhere else that projections for 2008 shows US demand down 200K b/d and China up 400K b/d. In a combined market of over 28M b/d, that is less than 1% uptick in demand for two major/main users that import heavily. Supplies appear to be up not just in strategic reserves, but in additional crudes and gasoline reserves as well. All this with the reduction and profit losses in refining in the US. Some of the profit strains on the refiners is the regulation to ultralow sulfer diesel; they would rather refine a traditional distillate diesel to export. Also, I know personally that different grades of oil sit stockpiled in floating assets (ships/ barges). I read an article earlier today that stated that Iran has had problems with land storage of their crude and are holding ships full of sour crude. First off, there are roughly 80 million barrels per day of consumption. Second off, 200 kbpd is a huge number. This is roughly equivalent to all of Alaska's offshore oil consumption. This is roughly 10 times the amount that Texas increased production over the past year. Third off, I think it's a bit of an underestimation. You're leaving out India, which has just as many people and perhaps a larger middle class than China. We could see perhaps an additional 150kbpd demand from them. European demand has been growing at a rate of perhaps 70kbpd. South America; 100 kbpd- especially when Chavez is giving it away for 20 cents/gallon. The middle east; perhaps 100-200 kbpd- again, likely due to subsidized oil prices. So looking at just China and the US doesn't really capture the whole picture. I think the real question is how much production we'll be able to get online in 2008- and whether it will be enough to both offset production declines in existing fields and meet new demand.

mcp -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/14/2008 6:36:56 PM)
quote: First off, there are roughly 80 million barrels per day of consumption. Second off, 200 kbpd is a huge number. This is roughly equivalent to all of Alaska's offshore oil consumption. This is roughly 10 times the amount that Texas increased production over the past year. 200k is a huge number in real terms but not based on increases in production; even with your numbers it is a 1/4 of 1percent increase. India consumption is less than China usage which is like a 10th of American usage. ANWR is estimated at producing 4 times the increase in demand (I noted) for several years and will rank with Prudhoe bay production. Comparing the demand increase with any fields does not paint an accurate picture imho. I do agree that we are not necessarily working to provide the independence from imports we used to have in the early years of oil. Europe was all up in arms over oil while we sat comfortable, even agreeing to pay the now OPEC nations a cut of ownership rights for extraction in their fields. Being that the next big upstream sources for crude are in the arabian peninsula, we have our work cut out for us. however, short-term we are not in a glut on supply side.

jbow -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/14/2008 7:43:42 PM)
We are to blame but the reason we are to blame is that we keep sending these politicians to Washington and they keep causing problems. The reason gas prices are high is simply supply and demand. The Chinese and others are increasing demand and we have allowed our politicians to thwart all efforts to build new refineries and to drill for more oil. We need to vote them all out, in the primaries if possible and in the general if not and keep doing it until they get the message. They are responsible for the high cost of healthcare and prescription drugs. They are responsible for many of our woes. For instance, my mower is now in the shop. Why? Because it has so many government mandated safety features. One malfunctions and the blades don't turn. Let me tell you... I do not need the government to protect me from my lawn mower. FWIW, it is illegal for the mechanic to tell me how to disable the safety stuff. Our government needs to get out of the way and let the market work. What is really a shame is that they make problems, big problems, and we the people, we go to them to fix those problems, and they either make the problem worse or create new problems. What is more of a shame is that we the people have, in our hands, the power to change it all and we, like lemmings, continue to march over the cliff. I think a good first step would be to repeal the 17th ammendment and at some point we need to take the step toward a new party. This year we may as well have three democrats running. I am very disallusioned by our politics and our mass ignorance. I really don't know if there is a way out now. All our politicians care about is getting re-elected. They don't care a bit about you and I, if they did they would be allowing for the building of refineries, nuclear power plants, and clearing the way for oil exploration in Anwar, off the Florida coast, and anywhere else we might find it. We need some leadership, but we ain't getting none. Frankly I do not know how I am going to vote in Nov. The issue of judicial appointments may cause me to vote for McCain but that is the only reason I can think of... otherwise I will vote for Bob Barr, if he indeed runs. I am really sick of the whole lot of them and no longer want to lend my support to this "do nothing" meddlesome governmnent. I want them to get out of the way and let capitalism work. J

cog41 -> RE: Gas Prices..Who is to blame? (5/14/2008 9:08:17 PM)
quote: Our government needs to get out of the way and let the market work. What is really a shame is that they make problems, big problems, and we the people, we go to them to fix those problems, and they either make the problem worse or create new problems. What is more of a shame is that we the people have, in our hands, the power to change it all and we, like lemmings, continue to march over the cliff. Nice. We have become tooooooo accustomed to voting for the lesser of two evils. Personally I'm sick of it. Barr looks good. I just keep thinking of 2 possible appts. to the Supreme Court. We have to assume some responsibility for our current mess. VOTE!

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