RE: Did Mary Co-sleep with baby Jesus? (Full Version)

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buckifn -> RE: Did Mary Co-sleep with baby Jesus? (5/13/2008 9:16:29 PM)

I'm not sure He had to learn anything we did, but it is interesting to think about isn't it.


Another thing I wonder..did he know beforehand when his earthly father, Josph was going to die?



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Did Mary Co-sleep with baby Jesus? (5/13/2008 10:03:03 PM)

I personally believe that Jesus had no for-knowledge of anything that God didn't tell him specifically. The Bible says that he set aside his "godness" and became human....so in essence, he took himself out of the realm of being the all knowing God that He is, and placed himself in a situation where He didn't know everything but where He himself had to fully lean on that higher being (God) just like we have to. If he hadn't done that then he couldn't have been the proof that WE as humans can do what God calls us to do...which was His whole purpose...to make a way for us to follow (that way being salvation). If HE had to rely on his "godness" to do it, then we can't accomplish it on our own. (I am not sure if that makes sense or not...I am not trying to say that WE can accomplish salvation on our own without God...we can't...but Jesus had to prove that we humans can be saved, and to do that He couldn't do it while being "God")



Jenny-Fair -> RE: Did Mary Co-sleep with baby Jesus? (5/13/2008 11:52:50 PM)

If I had to take my wife and child and flee to Egypt...mostly on foot...you can bet I wouldn't be hauling a crib/cradle/manger along with me!

Co-sleeping doesn't arrest anyones development. If that were so, we'd still be living in caves[8|]



clag4christ -> RE: Did Mary Co-sleep with baby Jesus? (5/14/2008 12:45:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair

If I had to take my wife and child and flee to Egypt...mostly on foot...you can bet I wouldn't be hauling a crib/cradle/manger along with me!

Co-sleeping doesn't arrest anyones development. If that were so, we'd still be living in caves[8|]



LOL! Did you used to live in a cave? I never did! [;)][8D][:D]


How exactly does co-sleeping arrest any child's development exactly?



nicole6598 -> RE: Did Mary Co-sleep with baby Jesus? (5/14/2008 2:04:44 AM)

Am I the only one who thinks who cares if Jesus slept with Mary or not? [8|]



Hislittleone -> RE: Did Mary Co-sleep with baby Jesus? (5/14/2008 2:16:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nicole6598

Am I the only one who thinks who cares if Jesus slept with Mary or not? [8|]


I was in a debate about whether or not it causes "arrested development" to co-sleep and thought that if Jesus Himself co-slept with His mother then how could it be considered a bad thing that would cause "arrested development". In posting this question here (on CW), I was hoping someone would have info (web link or book etc.) that describes what the customs were back then regarding sleeping arrangments for babies.

Sarah, that was an interesting post. You make some good points.



sen10tious -> RE: Did Mary Co-sleep with baby Jesus? (5/16/2008 11:00:07 PM)

I FOUND SOMETHING!

LUKE 11 : 5-8
5 Then He said to them, "Suppose one of you has a friend, and goes to him at midnight and says to him, `Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me from a journey, and I have nothing to set before him'; 7 and from inside he answers and says, `Do not bother me; the door has already been shut and my children and I are in bed; I cannot get up and give you anything.' 8 "I tell you, even though he will not get up and give him anything because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will get up and give him as much as he needs.
- That is New American Standard I usually use, and the foot note says the literal translation is children with me

So I kept looking ~

and my children are in bed with me. - Green's Literal translation

my children are with me in bed; - King James authorized

and my children are with me in bed; - Bible in Basic English

et pueri mei mecum sunt in cubili - Latin Vulgate [sm=icon_smile.gif]

the doore is nowe shut, and my children are with mee in bed: - Geneva Bible 1587

and my children with me are in the bed, - Young's Literal translation

. . . so there you have it! Co-sleeping in the Gospels.

and as for arrested development, there is evidence that the reverse is true:
"Children who spend hours during the night not being touched are also missing out on vital physiological stimulation they need to function properly." - Judie C. Rall

Edit to add this link: http://www.awareparenting.com/comfort.htm excerpt below ~

There is sufficient anthropological evidence to assume that, during prehistoric times, babies slept on their mothers' bodies or very near their mothers, and that babies were never ignored when they cried. Cosleeping is a common practice in many traditional tribal cultures today. However, where civilizations became more technologically complex, parents gradually abandoned the practice of sleeping with their infants and adopted the practice of separate sleeping arrangements, especially in Europe and North America.

It goes on to discuss how Western cultures first began abandoning the practice in the 13th century... but was not widespread until the 18th century.



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: Did Mary Co-sleep with baby Jesus? (5/17/2008 6:33:44 AM)

quote:

. so there you have it! Co-sleeping in the Gospels.


[:D]



Consecrated2God -> RE: Did Mary Co-sleep with baby Jesus? (5/17/2008 8:07:19 AM)

Of course, you also have to remember the ladies in Solomon's day and one of them accidentally smothered her baby. That's in the Bible, too.



Sideways -> RE: Did Mary Co-sleep with baby Jesus? (5/17/2008 9:42:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Of course, you also have to remember the ladies in Solomon's day and one of them accidentally smothered her baby. That's in the Bible, too.


Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily want the available medical advice and care that was available in Mary's time. I'm quiet grateful to be living in the century I'm in. [:D]



Jenny-Fair -> RE: Did Mary Co-sleep with baby Jesus? (5/17/2008 9:53:56 AM)

quote:

Of course, you also have to remember the ladies in Solomon's day and one of them accidentally smothered her baby. That's in the Bible, too.

I have read in many different places that she was most likely drunk at the time (which makes sense, given their profession). If one uses alcohol or drugs--and I would include some scrips in there--then it is not safe. For instance, Vicodin totally knocks me out. I co-slept with mine, but never had to take it during those years. I would be too scared to co-sleep and use Vicodin, because I happen to know that it makes me unconcious for ten hours.



Sunnymom -> RE: Did Mary Co-sleep with baby Jesus? (5/17/2008 10:33:19 AM)

I think the problem with connecting co-sleeping to arrested development is the assumption that co-sleeping is a form of 'spoiling' a child, just as nursing on demand is often considered to be spoiling a baby. Both stupid and short-sighted ideas that have nothing to do with the reality of nurturing children.

There are plenty of adults who suffer from Peter Pan Syndrome who were not nursed nor shared a bed with their parents. I think what results in arrested development is allowing self-indulgence and instant gratification.

Co-sleeping has nothing to do with preventing kids from becoming responsible, compassionate adults. There is a relevant article refuting some of Ezzo's theories on emotional development here. I have also read some research (I'd have to Google to find it again) about the link between arrested emotional development and excessive stress during infancy. A stable and calm parental presence allows the child's brain (amygdala and hippocampus) to mature and function properly, especially in response to fear. This totally contradicts the idea that children must be put through the mill in order to be able to handle stress as adults. The more nurtured the child, the better able they are to handle tough situations as their brains and bodies mature.

This is not to be confused with allowing a child's desires and emotions to dominate a household. But one has to use common sense to realize that these are separate issues, and unfortunately, when it comes to kids, we as adults can have a difficult time not responding emotionally.



Jenny-Fair -> RE: Did Mary Co-sleep with baby Jesus? (5/17/2008 10:40:03 AM)

quote:

I think the problem with connecting co-sleeping to arrested development is the assumption that co-sleeping is a form of 'spoiling' a child, just as nursing on demand is often considered to be spoiling a baby. Both stupid and short-sighted ideas that have nothing to do with the reality of nurturing children.

I think many people, especially in this culture, see both breastfeeding and co-sleeping as sexual in nature, as well. That is not true, of course, but people are not logical about it, and have basically been brainwashed. I can remember when a Canadian reporter said on television that nursing in public caused rape! [sm=fireanger.gif]



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: Did Mary Co-sleep with baby Jesus? (5/17/2008 12:43:39 PM)

quote:

Of course, you also have to remember the ladies in Solomon's day and one of them accidentally smothered her baby. That's in the Bible, too.


True. But the woman mentioned was a prostitute. THe likelihood was that she was also engaging in behavior that is risky for co-sleeping.


quote:

I think many people, especially in this culture, see both breastfeeding and co-sleeping as sexual in nature, as well. That is not true, of course, but people are not logical about it, and have basically been brainwashed. I can remember when a Canadian reporter said on television that nursing in public caused rape!


Oh, now that is weird. I remember totally making a fool of myself in Ethiopia, teaching English. The guys I was teaching were to write an essay about their day, and one of them ended up his essay with "And then I went to bed with my daughter". [&:] When I tried to explain why one might not want to use that particular phrase, and that most Americans would think it odd, at best, I just dug myself deeper and deeper in. These guys were preachers in training and I could just imagine how dirty they thought my mind was. [:o]



1love1God1way -> RE: Did Mary Co-sleep with baby Jesus? (5/20/2008 1:51:26 AM)

If my memory serves me correctly. . . during those times, the entire family all laid down on the same mat(s) in the center of the floor to sleep. mom, dad, kids, grandma, grandpa, fido and fluffy. . .



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: Did Mary Co-sleep with baby Jesus? (5/20/2008 8:40:42 AM)

quote:

If my memory serves me correctly. . . during those times, the entire family all laid down on the same mat(s) in the center of the floor to sleep. mom, dad, kids, grandma, grandpa, fido and fluffy. . .


Yup. It's still that way in many cultures.

Dh told me that where he grew up, when people are traveling, at night wherever they end up, they go ask for the pastor in the village, and the pastor is basically socially obligated to put them up. He remembers sometimes three or four guests (usually itenerant preachers) sharing a mat in his family home for the night. Strangers to each other and strangers to the family, but I guess when you're getting free room and board, you can't be picky. [;)]



sen10tious -> RE: Did Mary Co-sleep with baby Jesus? (5/20/2008 2:51:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
But we can know for sure what the customary practices were with sleeping arrangments and potty training etc., right? I'm sure there are books/articles that speak on the subject (daily life back then). I just can't find anything. [&:]

You probably ought to talk to a really good reference librarian, but I did find this little peek into the Jewish way of thinking toward sleep prior to the Industrial Revolution:

quote:

Source: Sheila Wilensky, Arizona Jewish Post
From the author’s interview with Rubin Naiman, psychologist and clinical assistant professor at the University of Arizona’s Program in Integrative Medicine.

The common pattern, says Naiman, … was retiring to bed at dusk, waking in the middle of the night for prayer, contemplation or to make love, and going back to sleep. “It was considered a very sacred time,” says Naiman. For Jews, this concept of tikkun chatzot, or midnight service, refers to the “sweetest hour,” he says. “In the middle of the night the gates of heaven are visible; the permeability between earth and heaven is much greater.” [...]

The Talmud recommends a 30-minute daily nap, but, says Naiman, “what happened with industrialization is that we stopped napping. We began working like machines. Because we were so overtired, we overrode middle-of-the-night waking. We’ve industrialized sleep.”

I added the bold. One of the things that struck me as interesting about that is that when middle-of-the-night waking is considered normal, there is no stressing about having baby sleep through the night.



W.O.F. -> RE: Did Mary Co-sleep with baby Jesus? (5/24/2008 10:30:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God

Of course, you also have to remember the ladies in Solomon's day and one of them accidentally smothered her baby. That's in the Bible, too.

of course you have to keep it in context...she was a prostitute and probably had been drinking, etc as well..and all information on co-sleeping says NOT to do it if you have been imbibing alcohol or taking medications that may make you sleepy.



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