RE: is the time of Christ's return near? (Full Version)

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tracydolls -> RE: is the time of Christ's return near? (6/23/2008 7:31:04 AM)

You try to discuss/debate prophecy with others and right away your written off as crazy. I have been like we can't discuss 1/4? of the Bible. All the Good Chapters and Books on prophecy, and I can't find 1/4 of Christians to discuss it with?

I've been called names I had to go look up...let me see a TL dispensionalist?

LOL. But ya know what I learned that I am not one and what it meant. I just like learning.

I like reading other's opinions, isnt that all we are doing here?


Do I think we are near Christ's return, yes.

Am I worried? Naw...

Somedays I say come back for the millions of babies starving, dying everyday. Come get them, please!

I'm watching Israel every chance I get.


http://www.aish.com/wallcam/


Still buying book's about it.

Don't try to put dates on it.

Remember 9/11, it means in America, Emergency call for help! America truly needs to be getting G-d on the line!

WE are in the end times.

The gay marriage amendment was a step closer. Look at the weather now since OP posted on 5/12.

Not only is it almost over... we (americans) are who in the Bible?

WHO?



bob97 -> RE: is the time of Christ's return near? (6/23/2008 10:08:33 AM)

Don't always agree with you Tracy...some times I do...but I love you and your spirit.

Bob



Ntech -> RE: is the time of Christ's return near? (6/23/2008 12:15:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

If we are talking about how Jesus used the word "generation," then the definition given in Psalm 90 is completely out of date, given that generations change based upon lifespans and reproduction cycles, throughout different lands and different cultures.


It's not out of date at all. According to wikipedia the average lifespan of a human on earth today is about 78 years. The verse is rather accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_lifespan

One more thought here. If the curse of Malachi was imposed at the death of John the Baptist instead of the death of Jesus Christ then that curse had started a year or two before his death.

The date to look for may be closer to 2025 than 2028.



Ntech -> RE: is the time of Christ's return near? (6/23/2008 12:39:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tracydolls

You try to discuss/debate prophecy with others and right away your written off as crazy. I have been like we can't discuss 1/4? of the Bible. All the Good Chapters and Books on prophecy, and I can't find 1/4 of Christians to discuss it with?

I've been called names I had to go look up...let me see a TL dispensionalist?

LOL. But ya know what I learned that I am not one and what it meant. I just like learning.

I like reading other's opinions, isnt that all we are doing here?


Do I think we are near Christ's return, yes.

Am I worried? Naw...

Somedays I say come back for the millions of babies starving, dying everyday. Come get them, please!

I'm watching Israel every chance I get.


http://www.aish.com/wallcam/


Still buying book's about it.

Don't try to put dates on it.

Remember 9/11, it means in America, Emergency call for help! America truly needs to be getting G-d on the line!

WE are in the end times.

The gay marriage amendment was a step closer. Look at the weather now since OP posted on 5/12.

Not only is it almost over... we (americans) are who in the Bible?

WHO?


Who are the Americans? It appears to me that what is happening is a repeat of history. That is by some weird thru the mirror darkly series of events the world is repeating the history that happened before and after Jesus Christ.

The Americans are playing the role the Greeks of the ancient world played back then. And the United States is the Grecian empire that preceded the Roman Empire. And as the Greeks were absorbed by the Romans so will the United States by a larger confederacy of nations. It will be a toe of the statue of Daniel 2. Or a horn of the beast in Revelation. And it will wind up battling the Barbarians like the Romans of old.



ta_mosquito -> RE: is the time of Christ's return near? (6/23/2008 12:44:29 PM)

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JimboFletch -> RE: is the time of Christ's return near? (6/23/2008 5:07:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ntech


So what is Jesus Christ trying to say here? Look at the verse again.

This generation shall not pass, until all these things are fulfilled.

And he is saying that in conjunction with the fig tree parable he just delivered. So the meaning is what? This "generation" as in group of people "shall not pass" will not die "until all these things are fulfilled" all events prophesied by the fig tree prophesy is complete.

So the meaning I get is that the group of people being born as of the event of the opening of the first fig leaf will still be around substantially by the time of the last predicted event.

"Generation" is being used to define a group of people not as a timespan. The timespan is their lifetime. Not their reproduction cycle.

And my guess is the "generation" is just over 60 years old at present.

You stretch the meaning of the fig tree beyond its clear meaning, that the time of His return could be recognized by the events He foretold, just like summer can be observed by the fig tree sprouting. That is exactly what verse 34 states.

Until the likes of Lindsay & LaHaye, "this generation" was commonly understood to mean the generation listening to Jesus at the time. That would certainly throw a monkey wrench into the pop-eschatlogical nation-of-Israel-is-a-fig-tree gears if that is the case.



JimboFletch -> RE: is the time of Christ's return near? (6/23/2008 5:11:07 PM)

quote:

I'm watching Israel every chance I get.

Prophecy interpretation by news headlines has been around at least since I was a kid and it is just as useful as it was back then - little to none.
[:D]



tracydolls -> RE: is the time of Christ's return near? (6/23/2008 8:57:16 PM)

quote:

Prophecy interpretation by news headlines has been around at least since I was a kid and it is just as useful as it was back then - little to none.



I said I'm watching Israel. I showed a link to the WAll Camera.

Reading and trying to understand ALL of the Bible is very useful!



JimboFletch -> RE: is the time of Christ's return near? (6/24/2008 7:46:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tracydolls

quote:

Prophecy interpretation by news headlines has been around at least since I was a kid and it is just as useful as it was back then - little to none.



I said I'm watching Israel. I showed a link to the WAll Camera.

Reading and trying to understand ALL of the Bible is very useful!

A little old lady is hungry and living on the street near your home...

A little child shivers from cold because of insufficient clothing down the road from you....

A teenager is starving for godly love and direction and an introduction to the Savior in your city jail....

Which of them receive Christ's ministry through you by your watching Israel and viewing the WALL camera? This obsession with end times runs contrary to what Jesus revealed as USEFUL Christianity.

Need an example? See the parable of the Good Samaritan, find where worrying over signs of the last days helped that poor man beside the road (but note the "religious" folk worrying over their personal agendas).

For another, take a look at Matthew 25:41-46:

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.



c_smith1234 -> RE: is the time of Christ's return near? (6/24/2008 3:22:11 PM)

No, I would argue we're probably not significantly closer to the "end times" relative to where we were a hundred or a thousand years ago.

Humanity is far better off today than at any point in its history. You wouldn't think it from the "bad news" news media, but we've eliminated more diseases, brought a larger percent of the population out of poverty, and increased the worldwide literacy rate and access to education to a higher level than ever before.

There's a lot of work to be done still, and major challenges to address (energy, environment, etc), but we are making progress.

Compare our circumstances to any time/place in history.

More countries are developing economically than ever before, rejecting dictatorships as a thing of the past.

Fewer people live under Communism or Fascist dictatorships, with more people voting for their leaders than at any point in history.

Slavery has been eliminated almost everywhere where it was once common.

More people have access to information, and to other cultures, and other worldviews and other ways of thinking. It's harder for one religion to dominate a culture or a people (e.g. the church in middle-ages Europe), and while this still occurs in some places (e.g. the Taliban), a far greater share of the people on Earth live freer lives than any other time in history.

Mour countries are trading with each other, and trade relationships strengthen political relationships and make countries cooperate, rather than go to war together.

Fewer people (as a percentage of the population as a whole) are dying in wars around the world. Obviously there are still conflicts, and each one is certainly terrible, but comparing the world today to history (see the Holocaust, the 30-year war, the crusades, WWI, the Civil War, any other major conflict), and you'll see that humanity as a whole today, with a few exceptional places, are doing a better job of limiting armed conflict and cooperating with each other.

We've cured more diseases and provided better access to health care for a greater percent of the world population than ever before. Of course there is still disease, but we no longer have the Bubonic Plage on a large scale (for example), and the global infant mortality rate is a fraction of what it used to be.

Of course, if you see the world through the lens of "we're living in the end times", then maybe it seems like every conflict or local dictator or political event in Isreal or the Middle East is playing a part of paving the way for the antichrist.

But as for me, I just don't see it. Sure, we still live in a fallen world, but we've come so far already. If history is our guide, we'll continue on this path, with hiccups to be sure...

I can more easily see us fixing our energy woes and beginning to colonize space than see some major event in the next century that we can't handle. I believe that, 700 years from now (and 1000 years and 2200 years), Christians' worldview and understanding of the "end times" will be far, far different from what it is today (and what it was 1000 years ago or 1900 years ago).



tony.nz -> RE: is the time of Christ's return near? (6/24/2008 6:56:01 PM)

2 Peter 3 (KJV) Chapter

1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


I am sure that in the 1st century BC, there were people going around saying "Where is this Messiah of whom you speak? We have been waiting for hundreds of years! We will probably still be waiting in 1,000, even 2000 years! Is life not great under the Romans! We used to have to fight all those tribes, all we have to do now is pay our taxes, and bow to Ceaser! It's not perfect - but it's great progress!"


1 Thessalonians 5 (KJV)

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.


I am reminded of one other time when men tried to build a utopia by their own wisdom, and used such words as these

Genesis 11
1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. 2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. 3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter. 4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. 5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. 6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another' speech. 8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. 9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

So, here we are then. Rebuilding this tower to reach the heavens.



Ntech -> RE: is the time of Christ's return near? (6/25/2008 12:03:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ntech


So what is Jesus Christ trying to say here? Look at the verse again.

This generation shall not pass, until all these things are fulfilled.

And he is saying that in conjunction with the fig tree parable he just delivered. So the meaning is what? This "generation" as in group of people "shall not pass" will not die "until all these things are fulfilled" all events prophesied by the fig tree prophesy is complete.

So the meaning I get is that the group of people being born as of the event of the opening of the first fig leaf will still be around substantially by the time of the last predicted event.

"Generation" is being used to define a group of people not as a timespan. The timespan is their lifetime. Not their reproduction cycle.

And my guess is the "generation" is just over 60 years old at present.

You stretch the meaning of the fig tree beyond its clear meaning, that the time of His return could be recognized by the events He foretold, just like summer can be observed by the fig tree sprouting. That is exactly what verse 34 states.

Until the likes of Lindsay & LaHaye, "this generation" was commonly understood to mean the generation listening to Jesus at the time. That would certainly throw a monkey wrench into the pop-eschatlogical nation-of-Israel-is-a-fig-tree gears if that is the case.

*******************************************
Is Israel the fig tree? And was he really talking to the generation that was alive at that time or one 1900 years later. Lets look here shall we?

If he was talking to that generation about their generation then when did verse 29 happen?

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

It hasn't. Which means it is still a future event. Also look at Luke 21. A similar prophecy but the question was asked at a different time in the temple. Matthew 24 was asked later after he had left the temple for the day. Luke 21 also gives a rough series of events to follow. And what it mentions that Jerusalem would be surrounded by armies and conquered and the survivors would be exiled and Gentiles would occupy Jerusalem until the times of the Gentiles was complete.

Gentiles still occupy Jerusalem today. (Muslims) Jerusalem must become Gentile free before Matthew 24 and Luke 21 can complete. Also look at Luke 21-29 thru 32. Again he mentions the fig tree and the generation.

These 2 prophesies must be read together to fully understand what has to happen before his return.

Now is Israel the fig tree? Well using the let the bible solve the bible method of bible interpretation lets see what other times Jesus Christ mentioned a fig tree.

In Matthew 21 is a story about a fig tree that was cursed because it wasn't bearing fruit. And in Luke 13 verses 6 thru 8 there is another story about a fig tree not bearing fruit.

The question becomes here "Is the fig tree a symbol for something?" There is a lot of symbology in these parables of his. Another question is "Is there enough evidence to decipher it?" We may have a clue. The curse mentioned in Matthew 21. Assuming it's a clue you then need to look up what the old testament says about curses.

Leviticus 26 is the old covenant of Judaism. It details the benefits of being a member of Judaism for a society as a whole. And the punishments when the law is violated and the people fall away from it.

So the question becomes "Is the fig tree a nation cursed under Leviticus 26?"

So I went looking for the curse. Found it in the book of Hosea. The time frame for the curse in Hosea 6 verses 1, 2, and 3 is 2 days out of 3. And after studying Hosea and 2nd Peter 3-8 plus the history of the Jews for the last 2000 years I could only come up with one conclusion. The Jews had been given a 2000 year top level Leviticus 26 curse. And approximatly 1980 years have passed so far. Assuming it was the death of Jesus Christ that marked the start of the curse.

One other clue here. Luke 21 mentions the fig tree and all the trees. What other trees could he be talking about? Then I remembered the prophesies of Genesis 48 and 49. Israel in the end times isn't just one nation. Its dozens of nations. Each tribe was destined to become a nation in it's own right. Except for Ephraim which was to become a company of nations. And that would be a forest. Or an orchard.

So while the above is all circumstancial taken as a whole well, people have gotten the death sentence on less.



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