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Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/17/2008 11:25:32 AM
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Marcus.
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Here is a commentary with some thought provoking ideas. What are you're thoughts?
quote:
Posted: May 16, 2008
1:00 am Eastern
By William J. Federer
© 2008
Daily there are news reports of atheists offended by prayers at graduations and football games; offended by a Cross or Star of David; offended by Christmas carols or patriotic hymns; offended by Christmas trees and menorahs; offended by the Ten Commandments or "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance; offended a teacher might hint there may be a Creator; offended a soldier said "God bless you" at a funeral; offended the Boy Scout Oath says "Do my duty to God and my country"; or offended by a cross on a Veterans Memorial.
Whereas basic Christian teaching is to forgive when offended, these atheists, when offended, protest, intimidate, threaten and sue to have their will enforced as law.
But exactly how many atheists are in America, anyway?
Story continued
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/17/2008 12:08:32 PM
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tracydolls
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I was really surprised that there are only 1.6% atheists! It seems as if there are alot more. My cable co. started having a forum for atheist in the lineup. How can that small percentage have such a big voice?
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/17/2008 12:25:10 PM
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StephK
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There just seems to be more because they are whining the loudest at the moment.
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/17/2008 12:31:03 PM
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BlackCapnHarlock
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
I was really surprised that there are only 1.6% atheists! It seems as if there are alot more. My cable co. started having a forum for atheist in the lineup. How can that small percentage have such a big voice?
My Cable company does to it's called "Comedy Central, MTV, VH1, and Bill Maher."
That's the atheist line up right there.
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/17/2008 12:50:31 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
How can that small percentage have such a big voice?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/17/2008 12:52:50 PM
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ik3900
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I'm an atheist and I don't find any of those things offensive. I do get slightly irritated though when I see these broad generalisations which inevitably lump myself and others like me in with the whiny politically correct crowd.
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/18/2008 4:02:01 AM
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Annie64
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When you look at the percentage, 1.6% is very small. But if the population of the United States is 300 million, then we are talking about several million people here. And some of them, I think, tend to be wealthy, which gives them some leverage.
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/18/2008 4:27:40 AM
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mapachito13
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The constitution gave us freedom of religion. Has anyone had their Church or prayer service at their CHURCH stopped and its members arrested? Our government even allows the Guatanamo detainees to pray 5 times a day. I think the 1st amendment is alive and well, in this regard.
The government should not "establish" religion. In other words, the government cannot establish a "national church" or say one religion's doctine becomes law of the land. Even though Christians are the majority religion should all law reflect the doctines of this majority? Also, since Catholics & Baptists are the majority among Christians in this country should we just enact law according to only those churchs' doctrines marginalizing other denominations beliefs?
Becoming a theocracy would not serve this country well!!
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/18/2008 5:07:56 AM
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scutus
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As an atheist, I was offended by that article.
OH NO.
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/18/2008 8:16:22 AM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
I did'nt listen but I was surprised because don't you have to buy time on Cable?
Unless it's a free, public-access channel, who says you don't have to pay for time on cable?
quote:
Here is a commentary with some thought provoking ideas. What are you're thoughts?
It's usually the minority that's making all the noise before any sort of movement or change comes about. By this article's logic, blacks were being tyrannical in the 60's by fighting for civil rights. The founding fathers were being tyrannical when they rebelled against the King of England. WND's knows its readers - they push only the butons that will elicit the proper response.
-Dan.
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/18/2008 9:57:49 AM
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Marcus.
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For a Christian to follow Christ, we can't confine our practice to Sunday or the church building. We are commanded to go into the world and spread the message, the love, and be salt in the world. Doing that doesn't make our government a theocracy. That is a red herring. We just want to be free to practice our faith in public and at work.
I don't give up my inalienable rights when I go to work or step out in public. Yet many of these lawsuits are about silencing Christian belief in the public arena. I have started speaking more about God in public instead of letting those who would remove His Name have their way. Why should a few people muzzle me when I am outside of my private residence or church? If I want to give thanks to God for the sunset, rain, snow, natural beauty, or some miraculous event in public when I feel moved why shouldn't I. No one has the right to say my free speech and religious exercise must be curtailed and constrained to a single morning of the week in a particular building. If I apply Christ's teachings to policies that my company comes out with and admonish them for being inhumane or lacking compassion they can fire me if they wish but they can't silence me.
I didn't take an oath to support and defend the Constitution when I was an officer to see the original intent turned on its head the way some folks seem to wish it. I will speak out and even fight if that is the last recourse if need be. I gave my word to join with our Founding fathers and stand against tyrants of all stripes.
< Message edited by Marcus. -- 5/18/2008 10:25:49 AM >
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/18/2008 11:15:48 AM
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rnershigh
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
Christiantiy is being pushed to the side. It's sad. WE need to get stronger in our voices.
I agree, like Marcus said, we are not to confine our faith to only Christians and inside the haven of the church. That's not what we've been called to do.
We are to live our faith in our everyday lives. At school, work, and wherever we encounter people in the world. If if weren't for Christians going out and living their faith in front of non-Christians EVERY day, well, there would never be new Christians coming to Jesus. I know I would never have come to Christ if it weren't for my interactions with Christians.
I don't care if an atheist, Buddhist, wiccan, Muslim, agnostic, etc, etc, etc wants to exercise their right of their beliefs in public. I think most Christians don't want to stifle the voices of others, but I agree it is a double standard and it can get frustrating.
Anyways, we should expect this type of response from those who are not followers of Jesus Christ. Jesus said people, the world, would be offended by His name and His followers (us!!  ) and the truth. We should expect resistance. Hey, we've all been on the "other side" (the dark side..LOL  ) at some point in our life, I know I was blind to Jesus and was probably the most anti-Jesus person out there before I finally believed in Him.
But I suppose the only thing we can do is to keep living our faith in the every day world with non-believers and to let Jesus shine through in our actions and behavior. To stay strong and respond with love instead of anger when we hear about Christians being given the cold shoulder or our faith being stifled in the public arena.
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/18/2008 5:21:21 PM
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Evangel70
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quote:
I was really surprised that there are only 1.6% atheists! It seems as if there are alot more. My cable co. started having a forum for atheist in the lineup. How can that small percentage have such a big voice?
Most people start off with the false premise that those asking for separation of church and state are atheists. I would venture that the majority are actually christians.
As a parent, it is MY responsibility to teach my children my faith and values and NOT that of a public school or government institution. Imagine your 6 year old coming home from school wanting to become a wiccan because his favorite teacher recited a wiccan prayer. Or perhaps your 8 year old wants to become a buddist because her science teacher has a statue of the goddess Bali in the classroom.
Imagine a scenario where your employer requires everyone to stop working several times a day so they can pray toward Mecca or requires women to cover their heads while working.
quote:
We are to live our faith in our everyday lives. At school, work, and wherever we encounter people in the world. If if weren't for Christians going out and living their faith in front of non-Christians EVERY day, well, there would never be new Christians coming to Jesus. I know I would never have come to Christ if it weren't for my interactions with Christians.
quote:
I suppose the only thing we can do is to keep living our faith in the every day world with non-believers and to let Jesus shine through in our actions and behavior.
I couldn't agree with you more. It is only by LIVING out our faith on a consistent and daily basis that we will draw others to the gospel. We can TALK about our faith and proclaim the truths of the bible until we're blue in the face but it the lost don't SEE Christ in our lives, we're just "babble" to them. As Christians, we should be shinning examples in our workplaces but how we represent Jesus in our dealings with other co-workers and the integrity we show in our business dealing. Are we modeling the behaviors an values that we want our children to imitate while they are in school. If we want them to be good witnesses, are WE teaching them how to present the gospel to others while at the same time showing respect to other children and meeting them where they are. Are OUR lives representing the truths of the bible to our friends and neighbors by how we treat newcomers and inviting others to church with us?
That is what is means to be salt and light. IMO, a lot of the animosity we see toward Christianity is well deserved. We let the Jim Bakkers and Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons be our public voices instead of standing up and denouncing "God told me...." statements and showing the lost what AUTHENTIC Christianity is all about. Perhaps if we stopped "talking" about our faith and demanding our "rights" and instead starting behaving more like Jesus, we wouldn't have to worry about the "tyranny" of those who disagree with us.
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/18/2008 5:43:59 PM
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tacitus
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quote:
Most people start off with the false premise that those asking for separation of church and state are atheists. I would venture that the majority are actually christians.
Evangel is right, non-believers of all stripes make up no more than around 10-14% of the population, but many more Christians want to keep religion out of school. And, if you had any sense, you would agree with them.
Take one quick look at the state of Christianity in the UK. Perhaps 30-35% of the population say they are Christians but the percentage of active participants is down well below 10%. That is what you risk getting when you remove the separation of church and state. There is no such thing in Britain and never has been and Christianity is all but dying out as a result. The vast majority of children go to state schools which are directly affiliated with Christian churches -- mainly Catholic and Church of England -- they have daily assemblies, with prayers and hymns and yet probably 80% of those children are agnostic or atheist when they leave.
If you really want that to happen here in the US, then go ahead and integrate religion back into schools. Luckily for those who are against the separation of church and state, a majority of Christians see it as a sensible policy that will ensure the vitality of Christianity in the years ahead.
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/18/2008 6:24:29 PM
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FurGodWurLivin
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The problem with sociology reports like this is that it depends so much on what is popular in religion right now. In the 1990's, depending on the study you site, somewhere between 60% and 85% of Americans claimed to be Christians. Now, it is becoming increasingly popular to be agnostic. So while 1.6% may claim to be atheist, I'm willing to bet there are a lot of people who don't believe God actually exists who claim to be agnostics because that is the mood of pop culture.
Adam
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/18/2008 8:04:44 PM
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9drtr
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
So while 1.6% may claim to be atheist, I'm willing to bet there are a lot of people who don't believe God actually exists who claim to be agnostics because that is the mood of pop culture.
Adam
That's my experience, too. I know many atheists who refuse to admit it. One has been denying his blatant atheism for thirty years.
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/19/2008 9:50:34 AM
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tacitus
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Actually, surveys over the past few decades show that the proportion of believers to non-believers remains remarkably static *within* each generation as they grow older. What's changing is the number of young people in new generations who are rejecting Christianity. That number has rise from as little as 5% 40 years ago to about 20% or perhaps a little more today. Even that rate is still very low compared with many European countries that have no separation of church and state.
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/19/2008 10:10:43 AM
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tracydolls
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I agree, I don't want "Christians" teaching my children.. There are some like Pat Robertson or Rev. Wright that I don't wnat no where near my children.
Did you know there is a lawsuit going to take "In G-D we trust"off money?
They are very vocal! But I'm gonna keep living my life for Jesus.
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/20/2008 8:07:41 AM
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Strider33
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ik3900
I'm an atheist and I don't find any of those things offensive. I do get slightly irritated though when I see these broad generalisations which inevitably lump myself and others like me in with the whiny politically correct crowd.
I hear you. I get slightly irritated when I see broad generalizations that lump me in with the crusaders, with the Spanish Inquisition, or with the witch hunters in Salem.
I think there's a great difference between being offended and expressing offence on the one hand, and militating towards the silencing of the offensive communication on the other. And it doesn't matter much to me whether the silencing is done by law or by cultural pressure.
I am much less concerned about the 2% of Americans that are atheists than I am about the 50% or more of Americans who feel that religious expression should be confined to the inside of a building reserved for that purpose.
As far as refraining from giving offense, I think that Paul, in his missionary journeys, knew that he would offend some people by proclaiming the Gospel. I don't think he took particular delight in causing offence. But I do think he considered that causing offence was an unavoidable part of proclaiming the truth.
< Message edited by Strider33 -- 5/20/2008 8:14:22 AM >
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/20/2008 10:29:04 AM
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freakofnature
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quote:
As a parent, it is MY responsibility to teach my children my faith and values and NOT that of a public school or government institution.
Too many post to agree with or disagree with. However, evangel I agree with you about 80-90% but I take a bit of an exception to this statement. The problem as I see it is that unfortunately, schools are teaching their own brand of religion, it is called secularism. I think also, however, that the rights of individuals to pray and read bible passages in schools and public arenas are what is the bigger problem. No, I don't want a teacher, principal, school lunch lady or janitor leading the school prays as their doctrine may or may not be biblical. HOWEVER, it is an individuals right to be able to read and pray and that has been at least hampered by the secularist.
As far as why the minority/athiest get such a loud voice is mainly because yes, they have the funds and generally... they are running our institutions of higher learning. They are usually the well educated, professor elitist that have contacts and available funds to speak the loudest. But groups such as the American Center for Law and Justice run by none other than Jay Sekulow are fighting back. They do well to represent the Christian voice.
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/20/2008 10:33:07 AM
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freakofnature
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quote:
RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/17/2008 12:52:50 PM
ik3900
Junior Member
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Status: offline I'm an atheist and I don't find any of those things offensive. I do get slightly irritated though when I see these broad generalisations which inevitably lump myself and others like me in with the whiny politically correct crowd.
ik3900; Can I ask you then that if you don't wish to be "lumped in" with all of the militant athiest, what are you doing to stand up against those who give all athiest a bad name?
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/20/2008 12:39:51 PM
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ik3900
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quote:
ORIGINAL: freakofnature
ik3900; Can I ask you then that if you don't wish to be "lumped in" with all of the militant athiest, what are you doing to stand up against those who give all athiest a bad name?
Hi freakofnature,
I think the main problem is that as atheists we don't have a defined set of rules or indeed any doctrine under which we might unite or call a common purpose. That lack of a positive identification with other atheists means that rather than a collective, we are really just a bunch of individuals who potentially have nothing in common other than a lack of theistic belief. On that basis I can't really say to another atheist "hey, you're being a bad atheist" or "you're letting the side down". I have to call them as I see them. Some of the arguments are justified, others completely over the top.
Apologies if that didn't make any sense, I just had an exam and my brain is fried!
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RE: Tyranny of the atheist minority - 5/20/2008 12:45:16 PM
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davemiller7
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I'm sure you have heard the old expression, "it's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease......................"
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
I was really surprised that there are only 1.6% atheists! It seems as if there are alot more. My cable co. started having a forum for atheist in the lineup. How can that small percentage have such a big voice?
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