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RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church - 5/20/2008 10:55:52 AM
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StephK
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From: Southwest Louisiana
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I feel for the parents but I don't think the mother is facing reality in her fully grown son's escalating behaviors. It's not unusual for behavior disordered kids to have problems when they hit 13.
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Stephanie
Communism "IS" socialism....
"How do you tell a Socialist:- It's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an Anti-Socialist someone who understands Marx and Lenin" -Ronald Reagan
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RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church - 5/20/2008 11:03:13 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2465
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
Even after the restraining order was served, the family continued going to the church and would leave during the closing hymn to avoid contact with others,
The quote above is the reason I don't feel sorry for the parents. They knew they were not to go back to that church. The priest I am sure had asked them not to and now a Judge has "ordered" them to say away.
Instead of complying with the court order they "chose" to break the law.
I also don't feel sorry for them because they refuse to admit that their son has caused harm to others and is likely to cause harm in the future.
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RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church - 5/20/2008 11:12:54 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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I have a question. Are these really the actions of one who is autistic? It just seems like there is more to the story than autism, if it is autism. This, however, is a question from one who is uninformed re autism.
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church - 5/20/2008 11:31:59 AM
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gemgirl66
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I have a 10 year old son who is autistic. There are many different "degrees" to this illness. He is high functioning.. Meaning he is in a regular classroom, with special interventions done throughout the day to work on particular areas, i.e...speech, occupational therapy, that he needs attention on.
Its my understanding from the news I have read that the priest offered to even hold a special Mass for the family so that their faith be upheld and their practice continue. (I am also catholic, and have never heard of this happening!!).. That alone says a lot for the priest in my opinion. It couldn't of been an easy decision for the parish or the priest. Knowing the child cannot help this because of his disability.. But having to consider the elderly, as well as the other children in the parish. As well as the safety of the child himself.
I can understand and appreciate the parents frustration, not wanting their child singled out, wanting to provide as much normalcy as possible for him, however, sounds like the parish and priest tried as much as possible and its time to go to plan C... I feel for them.. I do hope that they continue with the parish and that they are supported by them..
lil ole me..
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RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church - 5/20/2008 1:36:13 PM
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kielbasa
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It does not sound at all as if the priest or the church made the decision lightly. I am sure it caused much pain for all of them.
Incidentally, the family has SEVERAL options--much more than I do, and much closer for Masses, if they did not want to take the offer of having the priest visit their home or giving them a private Mass.
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RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church - 5/20/2008 1:37:36 PM
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tapestry
Posts: 178
Joined: 8/19/2005
From: Ontario, Canada
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quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
While I understand the need to put the needs of the group as a whole over the needs of one, but really is that a good Christian witness? The mother herself has stated that the family sits in the back or in the cry room as to not disrupt the entire congregation or service and they leave early as to avoid problems with Adam's behavior and interactions with others.
taken from news article: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080519/autistic_church_080519/20080519?hub=TopStories
But Walz told authorities he has spoken to the parents and the parish has tried to offer "many options for accommodations that would assist the family while protecting the safety of parishioners. (But) the family refused those offers of accommodation."
The parish says the restraining order petition was a last resort. But despite the order, the family continued to go to church. They would leave before the service ended to avoid contact with other parishners.
The family started leaving early and sitting in the back of the church only after the restraining order was in place. They have refused all attempts by the parish to make things work for everyone.
I have worked with autistic people for many years and many do not do well in groups of people and some are violent and need restraining.
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Joshua 24:15 B
..."As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."
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RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church - 5/20/2008 3:57:45 PM
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Closie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
I have a question. Are these really the actions of one who is autistic? It just seems like there is more to the story than autism, if it is autism. This, however, is a question from one who is uninformed re autism.
There are so many levels and types of autism; a person can have autism and other diagnoses.
He needs to learn to be around other people. His parents will not be around forever. Going to church, with people unprepared or untrained to manage his behavior, isn't the route to go. Working with trained personnel who can help the family cope, adjust, and manage, he can be included in small groups of people on a regular basis. The family has to make changes. For example, sitting on him to calm him doesn't make sense. For a person with cognitive problems, why wouldn't he think he could pull any person down on him? Other parents use weighted vests to help a child calm down. I knew young man who would go push against a wall (like doing push-ups) when he needed to calm. His OT taught him that and his parents in turn taught us at church. Together we identified the walls he could and couldn't not use. It worked out fine for him. These parents however don't seem willing to help the child adjust. They need our prayers. I'd like to think I'd act rationally but since I'm not in that situation, I don't know for sure.
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RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church - 5/20/2008 6:03:38 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3479
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Thank you, Closie!
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church - 5/20/2008 6:34:24 PM
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Closie
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autismspeaks.org
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RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church - 5/20/2008 7:03:22 PM
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Random
Posts: 1081
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Zipperhead
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Closie
For example, sitting on him to calm him doesn't make sense. For a person with cognitive problems, why wouldn't he think he could pull any person down on him? Other parents use weighted vests to help a child calm down. I knew young man who would go push against a wall (like doing push-ups) when he needed to calm. His OT taught him that and his parents in turn taught us at church. Together we identified the walls he could and couldn't not use. It worked out fine for him. These parents however don't seem willing to help the child adjust. They need our prayers. I'd like to think I'd act rationally but since I'm not in that situation, I don't know for sure.
It sounds like he has sensory integration disorder in addition to the autism. These two disorders often go together.
Having sensory issues doesn't mean you have autism/aspergers, but having autism/aspergers means you are likely to have sensory integration disorder, or at least sensory issues.
< Message edited by Random -- 5/20/2008 7:10:59 PM >
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"That which has always been accepted by everyone, everywhere, is almost certain to be false." -- Valery
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RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church - 5/20/2008 9:18:29 PM
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phosadaud
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I agree that the parents seem to need help. I am not an expert in autism in the least, but the little I do know about it causes me to believe some of their actions are exacerbating his issues, not helping them. So, even if you take the harm he can/is doing to others out of the equation (which I don't think you can), I would agree with others that he needs to deal with smaller groups with folks who know how to deal with his behavioral issues. The issues will NOT improve by putting him in an environment that is unable to deal with his behaviors.
There are options.
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~Kristin~
42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
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RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church - 5/23/2008 5:46:24 PM
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CatholicCritter
Posts: 144
Joined: 6/17/2005
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quote:
"We are obligated to go to every Sunday mass and every Holy Day of Obligation, and the Church teaches that it's a sin not to go to Church," she said.
http://wcco.com/local/autistic.son.family.2.726391.html
This is incorrect. If her son's behavior really is that disruptive, and if there is no other option, then they would not be sinning by staying at home.
A friend of mine attends Mass there and here's the scoop. The son in question is huge...almost 300 lbs. Apparently the final straw was that the mother has to take him up for communion because she cannot leave him unattended in the pew. Her other kids cannot handle them, and many of them were going to communion. So she goes up and puts him in front of her. He wasn't moving so she gave him a little shove. Being autistic (and sensitive of his space) he turned around swinging and hit a little girl in the line next to them.
Not good.
The mother took responsibility. She feels it is her fault because with someone who is autistic, you cannot correct them or treat them as you do other people. Her son did not understand what he was doing. Apparently he also doesn't have proper bladder control and he will sometimes wet himself during Mass, etc.
Not good X 2.
I'm curious why mom has not taken up the offers to pray a Mass at their home. Obstinacy seems to be getting the best of her. Pray for all involved.
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"There are not 100 people who hate the Catholic Church, yet there are millions who hate what they believe the Catholic Church to be." --Archbishop Fulton Sheen
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RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church - 6/2/2008 12:39:49 PM
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ezri
Posts: 2889
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow, Point B, NC
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My husband and I are on a list of caregivers for a friends 14 year old autistic son if anything should happen to the two of his parents. We could be reading about him as we read about Adam. His folks realize the danger he can be and have made arrangements for him to be around children but in a specialized controlled environment with caregivers that understand his needs. (speaking school/day care wise) They know he is home for now, but that he will get to a point where they will need to place him in a managed care facility so he will be safe from himself as well as keeping those around him safe. She has done her homework and has a list of places she feels are good set aside for that time ion his life.
IT IS HARD FOR THEM. but they are doing the right thing by their son and the community. I am not saying our friend always knew how to handle things. she did not. she had to learn and accept that her son was special and needed special handling. it hurt her deeply and she grieved when she came to the realization that he could hurt someone and not mean to or realize he was hurting them. He might be 6 foot tall and nearly 250 pounds but he honestly is a special needs 3 or 4 yo inside and I believe that he believes that he can still do the things he did when he was 3 or 4- climb on little tykes toys run and jump in daddy's arms(daddy is 6'4" tall but son out weighs him by nearly 50 pounds). he has caused daddy to sprain his wrist and throw his back out more than once doing things like this.
As hard as it is for Adam's mom and dad, they need to come to the understanding that their son could harm himself AND OTHERS and they really need to think about not only HIS safety but the safety of others. Sadly this may not occur until he has caused someone the unthinkable to happen, as we have read that he has already unintentionally assaulted people and I'd call that serious damage.
As for the church- I believe that this was a hard choice to make for the pastor/priest. From what i have read he tried to make other arrangements and was rebuffed over and over. I feel for him for his having to make the choice... but it does seem he did it as a last resort. AND if he wanted to could call the police and enforce the restraining order when they show up but he hasn't. Seems his heart and mind are in the right place. I certainly hope the family of this young man comes to their senses and realizes that they are not helping him by putting him in such a circumstance.
~e
< Message edited by ezri -- 6/2/2008 12:47:20 PM >
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