Priest bans autistic child from Church (Full Version)

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tracydolls -> Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/18/2008 7:07:10 PM)

http://kstp.com/article/stories/S448291.shtml?cat=1

""A Catholic priest has filed a restraining order against the parents of a severely autistic 13-year-old boy in an effort to keep him from attending the church here on Sundays""'



Kat_D -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/18/2008 7:45:34 PM)

quote:

"According to Walz, Adam struck a child during mass, nearly knocks elderly parishioners over when he hastily exits the church, spits and sometimes urinates in church and fights when he is being restrained.

He also one time assaulted a girl by pulling her onto his lap and, during Easter mass, ran to the parking lot and got into two vehicles, starting them and revving the engine, Walz alleged.

"There were people directly in front of the car who could have been injured or killed if he had put the car in gear," Walz wrote."


If this is true, I don't blame him.



StephK -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/18/2008 8:22:56 PM)

He's obviously out of control. Sometimes you have to make a tough decision for the safety of all.



mapachito13 -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/19/2008 5:57:04 AM)

And were the rest of the church supposed to smile and ignore it? Sounds like the parents need professional help for the child because he seems out of control!

My sister-in-laws eldest brother (who is autistic) swears all the time so they keep him at home. Her other two brothers who are autistic as well but better behaved go to church every Sunday.



BlessedMamaofmany -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/19/2008 7:25:13 AM)

that had to be a touch choice for the priest.
I can understand why he did that.
And I would tend to agree that the boy is out of control...although I would be really interested to hear from parents of autistic kids...'because I don't have one
Sandy



P31W -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/19/2008 7:29:39 AM)

Carol Race said it all started last June, when Walz and a church trustee visited the Races at their home address the behavior of Adam, who stands taller than six feet and weighs more than 225 pounds.


In an affidavit, Walz said the church "explored and offered many options for accommodations that would assist the family while protecting the safety of parishioners. The family refused those offers of accommodation."


Even after the restraining order was served, the family continued going to the church and would leave during the closing hymn to avoid contact with others,



copy from the article

The family is only out for themselves and should have already been arrested for violating the restraining order.



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/19/2008 7:49:36 AM)

My gut reaction was "How mean" but after reading the rest of the information, I really don't blame the priest. At 6 ft and 225 lb, the boy is not just an out of control kid--he could be a serious danger to others, and the priest has a responsibility to his *whole* parish, not just that one family.



stampinlady -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/19/2008 9:14:24 AM)

quote:

I really don't blame the priest. At 6 ft and 225 lb, the boy is not just an out of control kid--he could be a serious danger to others, and the priest has a responsibility to his *whole* parish, not just that one family.


I agree. If the parents want their son in church then they need to restrain him. Don't some of these churches have what they call "crying" rooms for babies? Why are these parents letting their son run loose if they know he gets into things?



kernsfamily -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/19/2008 9:57:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tracydolls

http://kstp.com/article/stories/S448291.shtml?cat=1

""A Catholic priest has filed a restraining order against the parents of a severely autistic 13-year-old boy in an effort to keep him from attending the church here on Sundays""'


I don't blame the church, either.

Iam sure that the family could find another church that has a "special needs" ministry, that would be better equipped to handle such individuals.

My nephew is autistic (in North carolina...raleigh area), and they go quite a distance on sundays to go to church, as there is one specific church in town that serves the needs of "special needs" individuals and their families....



StephK -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/19/2008 9:58:37 AM)

The parents need to face reality about the severity of their fully grown autistic son's public behavior. They aren't doing him any favors in the way they are handling things.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/19/2008 1:24:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
My gut reaction was "How mean" but after reading the rest of the information, I really don't blame the priest. At 6 ft and 225 lb, the boy is not just an out of control kid--he could be a serious danger to others, and the priest has a responsibility to his *whole* parish, not just that one family.

Me, too. Initially, I wrote a post, then after reading the article, I erased it. This is a horrible predicament for both the church and the family.



Closie -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/19/2008 2:20:26 PM)

My heart goes out to both parties. The family didn't bargain for this. They are not reacting in ways that are appropriate but they are probably so deep in grief (the stages of grief continue) that they don't see that taking him to church, in that context, isn't in his best interest. The church and members surely love this family and want the best for them, but they want to be safe and receive everything from a worship service that they can.

Accommodations were mentioned. The church probably offered to a special service for just them. Or maybe like with sick and shut-in, they may have offered to give the sacraments in the family's home. I used to do special needs workshops for our church. I read about one church had a special service for the families with special needs. They then asked other families to attend so that the children with the behavior problems would get used to being around kids. The ones who were asked to attend did so knowing that it would be disrupted, but they didn't attend that one for worship. They did it out of service to the church and family with the special needs. The goal was to eventually integrate the family into the larger church community.

It seems that this family wasn't receptive to those kinds of things. I pray that they can find the level of support and solace that they need - outside of the legal system.



kernsfamily -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/19/2008 2:56:42 PM)

quote:

I used to do special needs workshops for our church. I read about one church had a special service for the families with special needs. They then asked other families to attend so that the children with the behavior problems would get used to being around kids.


our church recently held an "autism"-specific workshop/seminar..for those who minister to special needs children and adults.....the link to that is: http://www.autismcreed.com/

http://www.prestonwood.org/about/press/news_SpecialNeedsMinistry_20080407.pdf
(you'll be downloading a PDF which describes the church's special needs ministry)...it's an article that appeared a few months ago in our local newspaper.

Our children's ministry building is currently undergoing an expansion (SO MANY KIDS...we were bursting at the seams!).....and, once that addition is complete, there will be a 5 classrooms that are being built SPECIFICALLY for those with "special needs" in mind.

As i mentioned before, my nephew is autistic, and even his brother exhibits some "characteristics" of it....and, my wife regularly says that she wishes they lived where we do....so, they could have such an encouraging/supportive place as our church.



bluestone -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/19/2008 3:04:21 PM)

I am on the priest's side. You can't put the needs of one above the group as a whole.

The parents need to make accomodations for him elsewhere. He certainly does not need to be around children, considering his size. If I had a special needs child, I would not want a kid that size or with those types of behavior problems in a classroom with mine.



garsyt -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/19/2008 4:52:17 PM)

I know this area of the country as I grew up in the same general vicinity and had a boyfriend at one time that lived right across the street from the church in question. This is a small town church. VERY SMALL town. The next nearest Catholic church is at least 15 miles away. And to a Catholic family to not go to Mass is a sin, especially small town catholics whom have been attending the same church for YEARS.

While I understand the need to put the needs of the group as a whole over the needs of one, but really is that a good Christian witness? The mother herself has stated that the family sits in the back or in the cry room as to not disrupt the entire congregation or service and they leave early as to avoid problems with Adam's behavior and interactions with others.

I don't know about you but I see that as at least TRYING to avoid problems on the part of the parents. Honestly the problem with him getting into other people's cars could simply be avoided by telling parishoners that it is not a wise idea to leave their keys in their cars or their doors unlocked. Reasoning with grown adults should be easier then reasoning with a 13 year old autistic child.

Going elsewhere in small town Minnesota is often times not possible, especially if you are of certain denominations. Lots of these churches are very small and set in their ways and unwilling to make apporpriate accomadations to families with disabled children. Sure they may offer a seperate service for this family, or a home bound service - but really why should the rest of the family be restricted to a seperate service away from other parishoners, simply because they want to attend as a family. Sure the rest of the family isn't banned from attending Mass, but isn't church supposed to be about families learning and being together and isn't Adam part of this family?

I'd like to know what, EXACTLY, other options had been made available to this family.

I'm going to ask my mother tonight what's being said about this up in that area, as she still lives there.

Blessings,

Garsy



StephK -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/19/2008 5:31:44 PM)

It seems this kid is getting more out of control which isn't unusual for behavior disordered kids hitting their teens. This isn't a sudden thing. The priest and elders did attempt to make accommodations starting when they went to the home back in June to address his growing disruptive behaviors.

http://kstp.com/article/stories/S448291.shtml?cat=1

quote:

The Diocese of St. Cloud issued a statement saying the petition was filed "as a last resort out of a growing concern for the safety of parishioners and other community members due to disruptive and violent behavior on the part of that child."

Walz said the boy's behavior worsened over time, telling authorities that Adam has been "extremely disruptive and dangerous" since last summer.

According to Walz, Adam struck a child during mass, nearly knocks elderly parishioners over when he hastily exits the church, spits and sometimes urinates in church and fights when he is being restrained.

He also one time assaulted a girl by pulling her onto his lap and, during Easter mass, ran to the parking lot and got into two vehicles, starting them and revving the engine, Walz alleged.

"There were people directly in front of the car who could have been injured or killed if he had put the car in gear," Walz wrote.

Adam's parents have to sit on him and sometimes tie his hands and feet to get control of him, Walz wrote.

Carol Race has an answer to each complaint.

She said her son makes spitting faces but doesn't spit and acknowledged he has occasional problems with incontinence. She says that she and her husband sit on Adam because their weight calms him down, which is why he pulled the girl onto him.

She also said they do use soft straps to bind Adam's hands and feet on occasion because it calms him, as does the revving sound of engines, which is why he started the cars.



If the kid is needing restraints then attending church is overstimulating him. If I was that girl's parent I would NOT be too thrilled at the mothers nonchalant attitude about why her son did what he did.



colliefan -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/19/2008 6:10:10 PM)

The priest/preacher needs to protect his flock.



Ps103 -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/19/2008 9:27:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: garsyt

I know this area of the country as I grew up in the same general vicinity and had a boyfriend at one time that lived right across the street from the church in question. This is a small town church. VERY SMALL town. The next nearest Catholic church is at least 15 miles away. And to a Catholic family to not go to Mass is a sin, especially small town catholics whom have been attending the same church for YEARS.

While I understand the need to put the needs of the group as a whole over the needs of one, but really is that a good Christian witness? The mother herself has stated that the family sits in the back or in the cry room as to not disrupt the entire congregation or service and they leave early as to avoid problems with Adam's behavior and interactions with others.

I don't know about you but I see that as at least TRYING to avoid problems on the part of the parents. Honestly the problem with him getting into other people's cars could simply be avoided by telling parishoners that it is not a wise idea to leave their keys in their cars or their doors unlocked. Reasoning with grown adults should be easier then reasoning with a 13 year old autistic child.

Going elsewhere in small town Minnesota is often times not possible, especially if you are of certain denominations. Lots of these churches are very small and set in their ways and unwilling to make apporpriate accomadations to families with disabled children. Sure they may offer a seperate service for this family, or a home bound service - but really why should the rest of the family be restricted to a seperate service away from other parishoners, simply because they want to attend as a family. Sure the rest of the family isn't banned from attending Mass, but isn't church supposed to be about families learning and being together and isn't Adam part of this family?

I'd like to know what, EXACTLY, other options had been made available to this family.

I'm going to ask my mother tonight what's being said about this up in that area, as she still lives there.

Blessings,

Garsy


I understand what you are saying , Garsy, but your post about its being a very small parish only make the priest's actions more warranted than I thought they were to begin with.

There is always more than one service, so both parents can attend if the boy cannot be left alone, therefore, the sin is not going to be an absolute necessity (and if it were a necessity, I do not think it would be a sin.)

If receiving at home was one of the options offered, it would not preclude the rest of the family's going to Mass--it just means that the boy cannot come to the church.

I am sorry that I am just not seeing the objection here. Given his past behavior (regardless of whether or not he or his parents can control it) it seems apparent that he is a danger to others and really does not want to be there.

If I were the parent of the girl he assaulted--in spite of his mother's contention that he was just "calming himself down" I would be demanding help. If it were my elderly mother who was knocked down in his haste to get to the car, I would want to know why nothing was done to stop this. If he had run out and started my car, I would want some assurance that it would not happen again.

At 225 lbs. and over six feet tall, it does not matter that he is technically a child. He is the size of a man. He can do serious damage to those not his size. And I do understand this, to some degree, having had a retarded cousin who was a child in the body of a large man. They do not understand the damage they are capable of doing, and thus they are a danger to others. This is not saying that they are not children of the Father and loved by Him--but so are the others at the service.

I still (thirty years later) have scars form my cousin. He did not intend to hurt me, but he was unable to understand what his actions produced. He only ever hurt family, because he did not get the opprtunity to hurt others.

I do not see, given the quotes form the mother, that the church had another choice.



phosadaud -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/19/2008 10:45:07 PM)

It's a sad situation to be sure, but with the facts provided, I also do not see that the church had any other choice. We're not talking about someone who is simply annoying. We are talking about someone who is causing physical harm to others - and has the potential, whether intentional or not, to actually cause someone else's death quite easily. I don't see how love says the church must allow that to continue. To me, that isn't love. That is foolishness at the least and callous to the church as a whole at the most.

The fact is, the church can only do so much. At a certain point, this family needs to start taking some responsibility for their son. My heart grieves for how difficult this must be for them, but I grieve also for the elderly woman who will break a hip and possibly die when she gets knocked over by this young man. I grieve for the little girl who was physically assaulted. I grieve for the child who is struck by the car this young man "revs up". While the options for this family are certainly narrow, how many people should be allowed to be injured or even die so this man can attend a specific service? I'm sorry, but that isn't love...



Closie -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/20/2008 7:50:10 AM)

When my father was dying, he obviously couldn't get to church. Someone had to stay with him at all times even on Sunday mornings. So the family took turns going to church and Sunday School so that no one person had to entirely miss out on the fellowship and worship that Sunday services provide. This family could do the same thing. One parent and a couple of children could go to one mass; the other parent and children could go to the others. If there's only one mass per weekend, then they could alterate Sundays. I know that not attending mass is a mortal sin for Catholics, but if they are in ICU or in labor, exceptions are allowed. I'm sure the archdiocese would help them understand that it's okay.

But more importantly, the family needs to realize that at some point that child is going to have to be around other people. If he struggles in a familiar environment like a church, then other support services may be needed. They should work with his school, a local university, or some autism support group to help develop a personal behavior plan. For him to be able to function after high school, his transition plan should start now.



Random -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/20/2008 10:13:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Closie


But more importantly, the family needs to realize that at some point that child is going to have to be around other people.



If that's the case, isn't kicking him out of church the opposite of what is needed?



P31W -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/20/2008 10:24:18 AM)

I am an advocate for the "van children". You know those children whose parents want the "free baby sitting service" and honestly could care less about God.

Well when one of those children is harmed by the 225lb 6 ft. person who the church KNOWS is a risk then those parents are going to run to the lawyers office faster than you can spit water.

Those kids, elderly and other disabled people in our congregation need to be protected from a "known source of danger".

I think their insurance company may have told them they "had" to do something to get this guy away from the other people or risk losing their liability coverage.



bluestone -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/20/2008 10:25:12 AM)

He is disrupting church services, and is a danger to the church goers.
Also, the situation is opening up the possibility for lawsuits, something the Catholic church has had too many of in recent years.

When he knocks down and elderly person and they break a hip, he urinates on the floor and someone slips, or he hits someone hard enough to require medical treatment, the change for legal repercussions is overwhelming.



landabee -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/20/2008 10:26:58 AM)

This family needs home visits by the priest. They need ministering at home by the laity, with support by the priest.

The priest can bring the host and wine for communion.

For fellowship, arrangements (turns) can be taken by family members to stay home with the autistic family member.

Many of the faithful that are unable to physically attend mass are served within their homes.

Communion At Home

From News Article:
quote:

In an affidavit, Walz said the church "explored and offered many options for accommodations that would assist the family while protecting the safety of parishioners. The family refused those offers of accommodation."



If the family wishes to only have their needs served, they are in error. I wonder if what I've suggested here was one of the options offered???

If so, then the family is in error.



StephK -> RE: Priest bans autistic child from Church (5/20/2008 10:46:33 AM)

The church did offer home communion, the use of another room with streaming video, plus the priest and the elders going to their home almost a year ago to address the growing behavior problems, the mother refused all efforts made by the church. Evidently this kid has needed to be physically restrained while at church and the mother just says the restraints makes him feel secure.

from the link in my post above:

The Diocese of St. Cloud issued a statement saying the petition was filed "as a last resort out of a growing concern for the safety of parishioners and other community members due to disruptive and violent behavior on the part of that child."

Walz said the boy's behavior worsened over time, telling authorities that Adam has been "extremely disruptive and dangerous" since last summer.

According to Walz, Adam struck a child during mass, nearly knocks elderly parishioners over when he hastily exits the church, spits and sometimes urinates in church and fights when he is being restrained.

He also one time assaulted a girl by pulling her onto his lap and, during Easter mass, ran to the parking lot and got into two vehicles, starting them and revving the engine, Walz alleged.

"There were people directly in front of the car who could have been injured or killed if he had put the car in gear," Walz wrote.

Adam's parents have to sit on him and sometimes tie his hands and feet to get control of him, Walz wrote.

Carol Race has an answer to each complaint.

She said her son makes spitting faces but doesn't spit and acknowledged he has occasional problems with incontinence. She says that she and her husband sit on Adam because their weight calms him down, which is why he pulled the girl onto him.

She also said they do use soft straps to bind Adam's hands and feet on occasion because it calms him, as does the revving sound of engines, which is why he started the cars.



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