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? regarding SBC membership - 5/19/2008 10:43:44 AM
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Mrs.Noah
Posts: 16
Joined: 1/30/2007
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In a SBC, if understand correctly, a person's name remains on the membership list until another church contacts the first church and asks the member to be transferred. If a person has left one church and not joined another yet, can he simply request his name to be removed?
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RE: ? regarding SBC membership - 5/19/2008 10:55:25 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6501
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I suppose you may request to be removed. There are no standard membership rules in the SBC. Each church decides its own.
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RE: ? regarding SBC membership - 5/19/2008 11:34:13 AM
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davelinde
Posts: 445
Joined: 5/5/2006
From: New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Each church decides its own.
yes- that's how I understood it. When I was in the SBC we would re-validate our membership list each year and inactive members would be dropped.
I have heard of (but never seen) churches that maintain a membership roll with names of people who had long ago left the area. I'm not sure why there is any benefit to that.
btw - it would only seem proper to let anyone giving you pastoral care know that you have left, but for a name on a list... why would it matter to you? Just curious.
< Message edited by davelinde -- 5/19/2008 11:45:34 AM >
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RE: ? regarding SBC membership - 5/19/2008 12:06:40 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1306
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Noah
In a SBC, if understand correctly, a person's name remains on the membership list until another church contacts the first church and asks the member to be transferred. If a person has left one church and not joined another yet, can he simply request his name to be removed?
yes....you should be able to have your name simply "removed" from the rolls....but, I guess, that just depends on the individual church.
My in-laws, after much "unappropriate behavior" by many on staff years ago...that apparently went on for years....,anyway they left their church, and demanded that their names be removed immediately (so as to make sure they were no longer "affiliated" with that church in any way)
I do understand that SBC churches are, historically, quite "slow" at removing names....probably to give the "appearance" of having more "members" than they really did, i would guess.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: ? regarding SBC membership - 5/19/2008 12:19:12 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 6309
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
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When I was first living in IN, we joined a new church. You would've thought that it was like performing brain surgery for the secretary to put us on the list as members. I didn't have the address of our old church and she needed to have that so that she could "officially" let them know that we had changed churches because we had moved across country. She made four attempts to contact them by mail before she gave up and called them to let them know.
I'm back in CA now. When I do find the right church, I wonder how long it will take for me to change membership again?
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RE: ? regarding SBC membership - 5/20/2008 10:41:39 PM
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Romans16_20
Posts: 300
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Jawja.... Yall
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When I was a teacher in a SBC, I worked for a local utility and had access to a large data base of names and addresses. During the down time I went through some of the inactive members of my class (we had over 40 but averaged 10-15). I started doing this after spending several hours on multiple days trying to contact people by going door to door and repeatedly being embarrassed. Some of the people I was trying to contact had closed the acount with the utility 5 and 6 years before! I went to the Pastor with a list of names that I had 1) gone to the house and they didn't live there anymore, 2) called them and the number had been changed 3) looked them up in our database to see whose name was on the bill and, 4) sent letters most had been a combination of contact types. I was told we had to keep them on the roll until either the person asked to be removed or another church sent a request. I taught the young singles so we had a lot of carry overs from 'evangelism dating' from the youth. They broke up, we kept the name and the kid never darkened our door again.
_____________________________
With every Mac startup chime an angel to get its wings; Windows gong sends an angel crashes into a tree... Vista sends it into a tree, rolling down a mountain, and headlong into a tractor trailer doing 80!
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RE: ? regarding SBC membership - 5/21/2008 7:28:13 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2441
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
In a SBC, if understand correctly, a person's name remains on the membership list until another church contacts the first church and asks the member to be transferred.
That's the way it goes in most SB churches.
quote:
If a person has left one church and not joined another yet, can he simply request his name to be removed?
Yes! They would probably appreciate knowing you are active in another chruch. I am in charge of our "outreach" and that includes the mailouts to all members. I know when someone contacts me and just tells me that they are active in another church I drop their name from "my" list even if they remain on the church roll. That saved me and my group both time and money.
quote:
I do understand that SBC churches are, historically, quite "slow" at removing names....probably to give the "appearance" of having more "members" than they really did, i would guess.
I don't believe so. Most of us don't pay any attention to the "membership" numbers. Rather we look at the average number who attend the bible study groups. (Sunday School, etc)
Most of the SB churches in my area are required by their own bylaws to keep people's names on the roll because they are given a "right" to be burried in our cemetary. That have that "legal right". If the name is removed that right goes away. Because most of the SB chruches in my area are older well established and have a cemetary there are large numbers of people who want to be burried next to their parents who no longer live here. They keep their name on our roll inorder to insure they can be burried there.
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RE: ? regarding SBC membership - 5/21/2008 10:16:27 PM
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drfuss
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[/quote]
yes- that's how I understood it. When I was in the SBC we would re-validate our membership list each year and inactive members would be dropped.
[/quote]
drfuss: Wow, this is the first SBC church that I have heard of that really practiced integrity in membership. I'm sure there are others, but I have not heard of them.
It always amazed me that you can't do much of anything in an SBC church until you join, because joining is so important. Yet, you can stop coming to an SBC church for years and still be a member the same as if you were attending and supporting faithfully.
A church deserter is still a member with all membership privilges; yet, a Christian who attends and supports the church faithfully, but does not join, is very limited in his activities in that church.
I have heard there are a couple of resolutions concerning this to be considered at the upcoming SBC convention in June, 2008. A few years ago, a membership integrity resolution was voted on and soundly defeated. Sad.
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RE: ? regarding SBC membership - 5/21/2008 11:20:05 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3889
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drfuss
drfuss: Wow, this is the first SBC church that I have heard of that really practiced integrity in membership. I'm sure there are others, but I have not heard of them.
It always amazed me that you can't do much of anything in an SBC church until you join, because joining is so important. Yet, you can stop coming to an SBC church for years and still be a member the same as if you were attending and supporting faithfully.
A church deserter is still a member with all membership privilges; yet, a Christian who attends and supports the church faithfully, but does not join, is very limited in his activities in that church.
I have heard there are a couple of resolutions concerning this to be considered at the upcoming SBC convention in June, 2008. A few years ago, a membership integrity resolution was voted on and soundly defeated. Sad.
I don't belong to any organized religion. I'm a Southern Baptist. Sorry, old joke. 
< Message edited by cow451 -- 5/21/2008 11:27:06 PM >
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RE: ? regarding SBC membership - 5/22/2008 9:03:45 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2441
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
drfuss: Wow, this is the first SBC church that I have heard of that really practiced integrity in membership. I'm sure there are others, but I have not heard of them.
It's not extremely uncommon these days. In fact the last two church I attended did pretty much the same just not each year.
quote:
Yet, you can stop coming to an SBC church for years and still be a member the same as if you were attending and supporting faithfully.
"Not" the SAME as if you were a faithful attender and supporter. Not the same at all.
quote:
I have heard there are a couple of resolutions concerning this to be considered at the upcoming SBC convention in June, 2008. A few years ago, a membership integrity resolution was voted on and soundly defeated. Sad.
What does it matter. Why should the convention care what individual chruches decide to do about their membership role? How does it effect the convention or it's work?
From the SBC website
A resolution has traditionally been defined as an expression of opinion or concern, as compared to a motion, which calls for action. A resolution is not used to direct an entity of the Southern Baptist Convention to specific action other than to communicate the opinion or concern expressed. Resolutions are passed during the annual Convention meeting.
________
One of the things I love about being a SB is that we don't treat ourselves, our fellow church members or other chruches as if they are stupid and NEED someone higher up to "tell them" what to do. We understand that each chruch if equipted to govern itself with the aid of the Holy Spirit. We don't feel the need to try to "run their church" or have others how to "run ours"....we allow the individual chruch and the Holy Spirit to do that.
< Message edited by P31W -- 5/22/2008 9:13:47 AM >
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RE: ? regarding SBC membership - 5/22/2008 9:26:09 AM
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drfuss
Posts: 203
Joined: 3/9/2006
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quote:
"What does it matter. Why should the convention care what individual chruches decide to do about their membership role? How does it effect the convention or it's work?" quote
drfuss: It matters because it shows a lack of integrity on the part of both the individual churches and the convention. The SBC claims to have over 16 million members based on the numbers provided by the individual churches; yet, it is common knowledge that only about 30 to 40% or the reported membership actually attend SBC churches. It is a lack of integrity on the part of the SBC and its churches.
Showing a lack of integrity certainly can affect the work of the SBC, since it can prompt one to raise other questions about the SBC.
< Message edited by drfuss -- 5/22/2008 9:33:19 AM >
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RE: ? regarding SBC membership - 5/22/2008 9:46:37 AM
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drfuss
Posts: 203
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drfuss: Concering my previous post, I am not saying that SBC churches intentionally have a lack of integrity on this matter. This is a situation that has evolved over the years. The reasons can be many, such as:
1. Don't question anyone's membership because they or their relatives and friends, may be offended.
2. It has gotton so out of hand, how would we go about updating the membership? This is particularly true in large churches.
3. Belief in eternal security - They are still saved even though they are not living right, so why can't they still be members.
4. Lazyness, why bother?
The membership integrity situation was not intentional, but it still needs to be acknowledged and corrected.
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RE: ? regarding SBC membership - 5/22/2008 9:56:19 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2441
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
The SBC claims to have over 16 million members based on the numbers provided by the individual churches; yet, it is common knowledge that only about 30 to 40% or the reported membership actually attend SBC churches.
They also give out 'average attendance" numbers as well. If you want to review those numbers they are there.
it is common knowledge that only about 30 to 40% or the reported membership actually attend SBC churches
How did you come about this "common knowledge"
What percent of the people who don't "attend" the chruch are currently home bound, in active service overseas, in college, away on extended vactions, working in another location but not residences of where their work is currently located, in a nursing home? Is that "common knowldge as well"?
Membership and attendance are two differant things.
I also believe the figures come from SB reports from figures we keep showing the average number in attendance on Sunday Mornings. I don't believe those numbers have anything to do with actual "membership" rather just "attendance".
I don't know about your chruch but my church often has members who are sick, have to work, attend another chruch for several reasons, stay at home because they are elderly and the flue is going around and so on.
< Message edited by P31W -- 5/22/2008 10:20:41 AM >
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RE: ? regarding SBC membership - 5/22/2008 11:09:05 AM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 6309
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
Status: offline
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I personally don't care if a church keeps me on their books or not. As long as my name is in the Lamb's Book of Life, it's all good.
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RE: ? regarding SBC membership - 5/22/2008 11:19:48 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6501
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drfuss
3. Belief in eternal security - They are still saved even though they are not living right, so why can't they still be members.
Low blow and shows an ignorance of or intentional bias against the doctrine. Any given SBC church has the perogative of purging their rolls yearly, monthly, or weekly if desired.
I've been in non-SBC churches that eliminated absent members without a soul in the church going to see if they have a problem, much less calling. That, to me, spoke as much about them as your take on a single doctrine seems to speak to you.
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RE: ? regarding SBC membership - 5/22/2008 11:28:19 AM
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drfuss
Posts: 203
Joined: 3/9/2006
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quote:
it is common knowledge that only about 30 to 40% or the reported membership actually attend SBC churches
How did you come about this "common knowledge"
drfuss: The membership integtity resolution that the SBC Convention voted down a few years ago contained those type numbers. The % numbers in the resolution were not challanged, it was just voted down. If the % numbers were off, it would certainly have been challanged
For example, my church has about 5500 members on the rolls, with a weekly attendance of about 2300 which includes non-member visitors and children.
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RE: ? regarding SBC membership - 5/22/2008 12:28:43 PM
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StephK
Posts: 1975
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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Membership is required for voting, teaching and being in leadership. Most SB churches I've been a member of have periodically culled their membership lists. The problem today is that too many people have no clue about how the governing side of church goes. That used to be taught regularly on Sunday nights but it became uncool and then was phased out.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Communism "IS" socialism....
"How do you tell a Socialist:- It's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an Anti-Socialist someone who understands Marx and Lenin" -Ronald Reagan
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RE: ? regarding SBC membership - 5/22/2008 1:08:58 PM
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cinderella092003
Posts: 150
Joined: 6/8/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davelinde
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Each church decides its own.
yes- that's how I understood it. When I was in the SBC we would re-validate our membership list each year and inactive members would be dropped.
I have heard of (but never seen) churches that maintain a membership roll with names of people who had long ago left the area. I'm not sure why there is any benefit to that.
btw - it would only seem proper to let anyone giving you pastoral care know that you have left, but for a name on a list... why would it matter to you? Just curious.
A couple of years ago we went to a church, that hadn't cleaned their rolls in a very long time. They had people that had been dead for 10 years as still attending. My guess was it was to say that they had 500 members when there were only 100 attending. They even had people that were on their membership and were members at a church just down the road.
My husband and I and several others had posed that we needed to contact the members that hadn't been there is a while and see if they still wanted to be part of our church and if not, to remove them from the rolls. Needless to say there was a big uproar about that.
We found out later from the pastor, before he left, that several of the members that had "control" in the church would bring back these other people for special meetings and get them to vote in a way they wanted them to vote.
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RE: ? regarding SBC membership - 5/22/2008 1:44:55 PM
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P31W
Posts: 2441
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
I thought (from SB friends) that membership was primarily for voting on congregational matters, and that unless one wanted to vote, membership was not something that was required or even solicited. Is that wrong, or just how some churches do it?
I agree with Stephanie. If you are not a member however you are more than welcome in most to help with various ministries and functions. In other words there is still a place for you to serve.
quote:
Those control freaks are the one's needing to be dropped off the rolls.
Amen Sister!!! Preach it!
One church I attended cleared it's roll because they were afraid people would think they are saved "just because" their name is on a church roll. We sent them all their membership/baptism certificated with a letter of explination as to "why" we were doing it. We also included material concerning salvation and growth.
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. As far as I know, they *still* have me on there. I went to a funeral there several years after and saw "my" box of envelopes (along with many others) still there, unclaimed. 
