Objectification (Full Version)

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DaveW -> Objectification (5/19/2008 12:13:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ah-pappapishu

Objectification is by no means a bad thing. But perhaps emotional neglect combined with tyrannous objectification is the true problem that women face.

In fact, all things considered, I think women should understand and appreciate objectification, being a wholly natural and instinctive masculine tendency, and consciously steer the discussion towards the proper role, guidelines and management of this tendency.
quote:

ORIGINAL: CheshireMuse

We should APPRECIATE being turned into an object??? Are you serious? The fact that you really don't see how degrading this is to women (or anyone) kinda scares me.

This exchange took place over in the She Says folder and I wanted to respond to it and to open it up to objectification in general with the workplace specifically, not just the overtly sexual objectification the OP there was refering to. I would like comments by both men and women.

The point that we automatically objectify people brought to mind the business model of the 1950s and 60s. If you were a worker on the line at GM or white collar type at Ford or US Steel or 3M, you were not considered a person. You were a welder, a wheel assembler, an accountant, a middle manager, etc. Any life you had outside the 4 walls of your workplace was of no consequence. You could not make a personal call and no non-business related messages from the outside were allowed in, EVER. To violate that was grounds for dismissal. You had your vacation times set by the company (esp if you were in the auto industry - change over) You were not allowed sick days.

Then things started to change. Women came into the workplace and all of a sudden employees had to be "persons," and not just machines doing a job. Then computers started replacing people. Then offshore competition drove much of the remaining workplaces to either fold or severly downsize. And now, the employees that still have those kind of jobs have to be treated as people.

Is this an efficient model, or was it more efficient to just objectify (and pigeonhole) an iron worker, longshoreman, accounts recievable analyist, etc?



Focusing -> RE: Objectification (5/19/2008 2:21:00 PM)

We are people, not things or machines or inanimate objects.

There are many companies now that understand that our lives outside the 4 walls of our office are what drive who we are, and how we are. Successful businesses realize this and it's something that is recognized in the "top" companies to work for.

If we want to do nothing more than objectify someone, dare I say it? We can go back to the middle ages. We can go back to slavery. We can get rid of democracy.

IMO, objectifying someone is to ignore the fact that they are human ... it turns them into - ha! - objects.

It's a bad thing.



quote:

women should understand and appreciate objectification

I can't even believe someone said that.



makarizo -> RE: Objectification (5/19/2008 7:54:18 PM)

in the right context, objectifying is perfectly acceptable.
I think the male engineering mind was objectified in these forums not too long ago.
a very very narrow margin of acceptability because the temptation to make character judgments based on something almost irrelevant is not okay.



DaveW -> RE: Objectification (5/20/2008 6:19:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: doer

... the male engineering mind
I resemble that remark.....



makarizo -> RE: Objectification (5/20/2008 7:09:10 AM)

Here is the link that will teach you everything you ever wanted to know about yourself.

"i think she lives in a trailer park" is a phrase often used in these parts to objectify someone.



creationtalk -> RE: Objectification (5/20/2008 10:58:08 AM)

I think that "objectification" can be extremely dangerous, if taken too far, however, it is also useful in maintaining proper boundaries in a business setting.

At my work it's mostly men (I think it's something like 1 women to 5-7 men). Quite often there will be a woman working with a man (or men) after hours and friendships can get very close. A certain amount of objectification is needed to keep the relationships on a professional level. However, we are all people. What happens outside the doors of the work building also affect our work life. If we treated people at work as mere objects, we wouldn't take into consideration that one person is a single parent and can't work nights and weekends. Or we wouldn't take into consideration that two people have spouses that are currently out of town on business and someone has to be at the daycare to pick up the children. Or that one person wants to work nights so there is more time for the family.

In personal relationships, I do not believe there is any place for objectification. It devalues a person and a relationship.



DaveW -> RE: Objectification (5/20/2008 12:16:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: creationtalk

If we treated people at work as mere objects, we wouldn't take into consideration that one person is a single parent and can't work nights and weekends. Or we wouldn't take into consideration that two people have spouses that are currently out of town on business and someone has to be at the daycare to pick up the children. Or that one person wants to work nights so there is more time for the family.
This is exactly what I am talking about. This is exactly where business was here in the US 50 years ago. Has the change been good or bad for domestic business? Is the objectifying of employees a cultural carryover of the slave owner mentality of the pre-Civil War US?

quote:

In personal relationships, I do not believe there is any place for objectification. It devalues a person and a relationship.
I completely agree.



creationtalk -> RE: Objectification (5/20/2008 10:12:54 PM)

quote:

Has the change been good or bad for domestic business? Is the objectifying of employees a cultural carryover of the slave owner mentality of the pre-Civil War US?


I believe the change has been good for business. Studies of productivity show that people who are happy and satisfied are more productive and better able to stay healthy than people who are not happy at work. I know that I can get a lot more done at work if I am able to balance work and home-life so that I am not fretting about things at home when I need to be working, etc.

I don't think history will support the idea that objectifying employees has anything to do with slavery. The number of slave owners was a small percentage of the population, and in many ways the conditions in factories north of the mason-dixon line were as bad or worse than experienced by most slaves. It may be a hold-over from from the feudal system prior to the industrial revolution.



DaveW -> RE: Objectification (5/21/2008 7:43:51 AM)

quote:

It may be a hold-over from from the feudal system prior to the industrial revolution.
Good point.



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