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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 6/4/2008 8:40:45 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2319
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Joe McCarthy was weeding out communists who were going to be threats to our way of life.
McCarthy was a nut job who saw communists behind every tree and abused his position as a Senator to smear many a person without due process. Oh, but he used totalitarian tactics for democracy so that make it OK.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 6/4/2008 9:21:11 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5229
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Where did I say they were dumb? I said that they needed a little extra help to overcome the disadvantages of growing up in a low socio-economic environment.
The implication that minorities cannot handle standart college classes or other challenges without help speaks for itslelf.
Affirmative Action is racism and sexiam of the most blatant kind.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 6/4/2008 9:57:51 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3521
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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quote:
I said that they needed a little extra help to overcome the disadvantages of growing up in a low socio-economic environment.
There arer many examples of people overcoming their circumstances. For one, the bible is FILLED with these stories.
Its...just...not...easy...to...attain...wealth.
AA today fosters more hatred toward minorities than helps them.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 6/4/2008 10:29:04 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1815
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quote:
For along time even until TODAY, there are some parts of society that will ALWAYS consider Black, Mexicans, the enemy
and whites.....
And Moslems, Catholics, Irish, Jewish, Nigerian, we could go on forever.
I've learned that if all people were one color we still would find a reason to fight.
It would be height or foot size. Or something dumb like that.
Man is borne into sin. period.
quote:
There arer many examples of people overcoming their circumstances. For one, the bible is FILLED with these stories.
Its...just...not...easy...to...attain...wealth.
AA today fosters more hatred toward minorities than helps them.
Jesus overcame my circumstances. I don't want wealth what people want is life ,liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Until about 40 years ago that was'nt even possible for alot of minorites.
Now some get it, barely being eked out.
It's not AA that fosters hate towards minorities, it's one more excuse to hate minorities.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 6/5/2008 8:24:20 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2319
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Where did I say they were dumb? I said that they needed a little extra help to overcome the disadvantages of growing up in a low socio-economic environment.
The implication that minorities cannot handle standart college classes or other challenges without help speaks for itslelf.
Affirmative Action is racism and sexiam of the most blatant kind.
Thsnks
RC
Did I say that we would be forcing them to get the help? I just want to make this help more available.
Do you have a degree in education? How many journals in regards to eduction have you read lately? Have you read any studies on how a person's socio-economic situation affects their access to the quality of education available in richer (and whiter) areas? Or do you rely on repeating your mantra "AA is racism and sexism"?
The way the education system is structured to giving those in more affluent areas a better quality education is akin to racism. Once we tackle that issue then we can start doing away with AA programs!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 6/5/2008 9:06:38 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
...Have you read any studies on how a person's socio-economic situation affects their access to the quality of education available in richer (and whiter) areas?...
I'll agree that my kids (both white) had no chance of attending Harvard, Yale, or Princeton due to my socio-economic situation. Somehow, they managed to get degrees and jobs, despite having degrees from Alabama state universities.
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 6/5/2008 10:09:46 AM
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davemiller7
Posts: 850
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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You're 100% right and it destroys incentives for people to try to succeed on their own, without government help (intervention).
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
It's not AA that fosters hate towards minorities, it's one more excuse to hate minorities.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 6/5/2008 10:45:10 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2319
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
It would be height or foot size. Or something dumb like that.
Man is borne into sin. period.
It's not AA that fosters hate towards minorities, it's one more excuse to hate minorities.
Amen!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 6/6/2008 10:39:13 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5229
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Did I say that we would be forcing them to get the help? I just want to make this help more available.
Yes, and by feeling the need to help them people, you are assuming they are deficient and unable to seceed without the help.
That is racism plain and simple.
I happen to think that all people are equal; that is not recism.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 6/6/2008 10:50:59 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5229
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
...Have you read any studies on how a person's socio-economic situation affects their access to the quality of education available in richer (and whiter) areas?...
I'll agree that my kids (both white) had no chance of attending Harvard, Yale, or Princeton due to my socio-economic situation. Somehow, they managed to get degrees and jobs, despite having degrees from Alabama state universities.
I think that is something that many miss in that there is great educational opportunities for all.
My three children all got degrees and are doing great financially. Why, because they were white and rich, no; because they worked their butts off to get those degrees. They all worked (sometimes 2 jobs), carried a full load of courses (15 to 18 hrs per semester), and borrowed all they could to cover costs (which they are still payong back) I was not financially able to help any of them with their higher education.
My son an architect has a BA, one daughter is a CPA with a MBA, and the other daughter is a professor at the University of Texas witha PHD in two diciplines. No favortism, no financial help from their family, and all educated in public shools and State Universities.
That opportunity is available to everyone in the United States; black, white, latino, male or female. It just takas a lot of hard work, staying out of trouble, vision, and moral support from their families.
All AA does is demean some folks and make others angry.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 6/6/2008 1:13:47 PM
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saved9201
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quote:
Why, because they were white and rich, no; because they worked their butts off to get those degrees.
I don't doubt that. Give God some glory too.
But if working one's butt off was all it took, AA would never have been necessary. Personally, I believe that the only colleges that should be forced to adhere to AA policies are those that blatantly discriminated in the past (i.e. University of Alabama) and these policies should be left in place until the stats reflect no evidence of discrimination. I know that smells of quotas, but we can't read people's hearts so stats are the only evidence we have. That being said, if a school/company desires its own voluntary AA goals, in order to achieve a more diverse student body/workforce, that should be okay too. Then the question becomes, are ALL racial preferences, racism? Before you answer, riddle me this:
Do you think it would be racism for a police force to specifically recruit ONLY blacks to work as undercover gang members if all the gangs in the neighborhood are black?
Do you think it would be racism for a local acting group to accept only white actors for a play that features only white actors? Or black actors? or Hispanic actors?
Do you think it would be racism for a predominantly black public school to use racial and sexual preferences to recruit black male teachers?
Do you think it would be racism for a hospital which serves a large number of Hispanics to recruit Hispanic nurses who were fluent in Spanish?
Do you think it would be racism for a college athletic department to recruit specifically black coaches on it's staff if it knew they were losing recruiting battles to rival schools due to the fact it's staff was too "white"?
Now, I'm not saying that the newspaper add should read, "ONLY WHITE ACTORS NEED APPLY." However, I doubt very seriously if the local NAACP would put up a fuss if a local production of "Oklahoma" featured only white actors.
My point is, that while some of you think that the mean ol' Marxist, libral gubment is forcing these instituutions to use racial preferences and if these same instititions had their way , they'd accept more "hard working white people", I say, not so fast, my friend. Sometimes racial preferences are necessary and are desired.
Now the quesiton will probably be, "Well, what if things were the other way around? What if blacks had all the good jobs and held most of the seats at the good schools? What then?"
Well, we'll find out when and if that ever happens.
- Julius
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 6/6/2008 1:25:49 PM
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P31W
Posts: 2441
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quote:
"Well, what if things were the other way around? What if blacks had all the good jobs and held most of the seats at the good schools? What then?"
My husband created his own work. He did not attend college. (his family NEEDED him to work so they could pay the power bill)
When one believes they are able to do better than someone (am employer) will pay them they are free in this country to go prove it. They are free to go and create for themselves a job.
Some of the "best jobs" are created by those who created the positions.
quote:
I said that they needed a little extra help to overcome the disadvantages of growing up in a low socio-economic environment.
My grandparents raised three children in a low socio-economic enviroment. (they were farmers) Those three children grew to become multi-millionaires. They never took a anything from the government.
My husband grew up poor as well. Never asked the government for help either.
< Message edited by P31W -- 6/6/2008 1:36:00 PM >
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 6/6/2008 3:25:10 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2319
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
That opportunity is available to everyone in the United States; black, white, latino, male or female. It just takas a lot of hard work, staying out of trouble, vision, and moral support from their families.
See this is where the extra support is needed. Not everyone has an example of a good work ethic or any type of support from TWO parents and sometimes not even from one. God bless you for giving that obviously to your kids. We need to give those kids an opportunity to succeed even though the cards are stacked against them through no fault of their own. Do we throw these kids in the society's trash bin or do we give them a little extra help and time so they can succeed.
I do see your point of view and I definitely know where you're coming from. I know our opinions on this are 180 degrees from each other. I know that we will not agree on this but then if everyone agreed the threads on these forums would be mighty short.
BTW, praise God that you have been blessed with your wonderful family. I feel tremendously blessed in that regard too!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 6/6/2008 3:32:19 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6497
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quote:
See this is where the extra support is needed. Not everyone has an example of a good work ethic or any type of support from TWO parents and sometimes not even from one. God bless you for giving that obviously to your kids. We need to give those kids an opportunity to succeed even though the cards are stacked against them through no fault of their own. Do we throw these kids in the society's trash bin or do we give them a little extra help and time so they can succeed.
I can understand that need, but even giving them a free higher education and special preference in hiring won't overcome a poor work ethic. Anyone that's seen a lazy relative of the boss given a job knows how that turns out.
I'm not sure what those young people need, mentoring or counseling, but just getting them into schools and job won't help them in the long-term.
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 6/6/2008 3:43:22 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2319
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
See this is where the extra support is needed. Not everyone has an example of a good work ethic or any type of support from TWO parents and sometimes not even from one. God bless you for giving that obviously to your kids. We need to give those kids an opportunity to succeed even though the cards are stacked against them through no fault of their own. Do we throw these kids in the society's trash bin or do we give them a little extra help and time so they can succeed.
I can understand that need, but even giving them a free higher education and special preference in hiring won't overcome a poor work ethic. Anyone that's seen a lazy relative of the boss given a job knows how that turns out.
I'm not sure what those young people need, mentoring or counseling, but just getting them into schools and job won't help them in the long-term.
Exactly, that's why a support mechnism (tutoring, counseling, etc.) is important but this type of help could benefit all low achieving students as well. AA gives them an opportunity but the individual still has to do the work for them to take advantage of that opportunity and be successful.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 6/6/2008 7:12:41 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5229
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
AA gives them an opportunity but the individual still has to do the work for them to take advantage of that opportunity and be successful.
I can tell from this post that you have not been in the work place much to think that AA does not contribute to poor work production and the fear of employers to deal with it.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 6/6/2008 7:15:03 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2319
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
AA gives them an opportunity but the individual still has to do the work for them to take advantage of that opportunity and be successful.
I can tell from this post that you have not been in the work place much to think that AA does not contribute to poor work production and the fear of employers to deal with it.
Thsnks
RC
I thought it was just worker's unions! 
BTW, what do you think I do for a living?
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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Whatever..... That was an intelligent rebuttal worthy of McCartyism America. Insinuate communism or socialism and don't address the issue. 
