Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (Full Version)

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rcjames -> Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 2:05:02 PM)

We have had.have a few threads on racism lately, and I wonder if anyone thinks that "Affirmative Action" and/or Quotas are a racist policy against the ones it is suppose to "Help".


Thanks
RC



kernsfamily -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 2:32:37 PM)

well, let's see....

It's a policy that favors people of ONE color, while discriminating people of ANOTHER color.....purely on the color of their skin....sounds racist to me!

ask Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas and Ward Connerly.....3 prominent black men what THEY think of "affirmative action"....(all 3 are opponents of it)

affirmative action really only helps the self-serving politicians that perpetuate the myth that 'programs' like AA are an absolute necessity.....

as with saying you will NOT vote for Barack Obama, or merely "challenging" what he says on the campaign....saying you are AGAINST affirmative action, will earn you the "racist" label from the politicians that benefit from that program every single time.



landabee -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 3:13:15 PM)

Where is that One Stop when we need it??? [;)]

ETA:

Racial Issues



cog41 -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 3:24:32 PM)

quote:

"Affirmative Action" and/or Quotas are a racist policy against the ones it is suppose to "Help".



Yes.



davemiller7 -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 3:34:02 PM)

It may have had some merit when it was first implemented, but after all these years, it's nothing more than reverse racism in all its full-blown liberal glory. It's meant to punish whites for the sins of some of our ancestors.
-Dave



ken1906_4 -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 3:37:18 PM)

Affirmative action includes African Americans, Arab Americans, Native Americans, Latino Americans (the legal ones) and women.
Also, let the record show that white women have benefited more from Affirmative Action than any racial group combined.



tracydolls -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 4:02:46 PM)

Let's see, only 1% of any quota was ever filled by minorities. Before it was fully implemented, whites were screamining "revearse discrimination"


so yeah they should do away with it.

It ain't helped anyone.



ken1906_4 -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 4:11:14 PM)

Affirmative Action has never been based on quota's.
Want to know why?
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wait on it
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wait on it
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because quota's are illegal in the United States unless court ordered on a company/establishment that is known for deliberate and blatant discrimination based on sex and race.



SuspenseWriter -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 4:16:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: davemiller7

It may have had some merit when it was first implemented, but after all these years, it's nothing more than reverse racism in all its full-blown liberal glory. It's meant to punish whites for the sins of some of our ancestors.
-Dave


Yep, it's a joke that lost its punchline years ago. Affirmative action is nothing more than the usual Doctor Feelgood claptrap the Dems seem to have such affection for, and so far has ended up hamstringing far more people than it has supposedly "helped".



P31W -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 4:24:25 PM)

quote:

Also, let the record show that white women have benefited more from Affirmative Action than any racial group combined.


I won't debate this. I know we have been advised more than once to make some of our business owned by "me" and not "us or him". The sole reason was because it would help us "stop losing" jobs to those who had to hire a minority owned business and it would give us a few "new jobs" because of our favored status.

We refuse to play the game. For us it's not right.



rcjames -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 4:35:09 PM)

I consider AA to be a racist policy because it takes a segment of the population and declares theat "Those People" are deficient to the other folks.

The policy says that Blacks or women or whichever group cannot compete equally with others, are not as smart (a need to add points to test), more ignorant, etc. etc.

That is racism is the purest form and the AA is the protected child of liberals and demokrats.

Thanks
RC



ken1906_4 -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 5:08:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

I consider AA to be a racist policy because it takes a segment of the population and declares theat "Those People" are deficient to the other folks.

The policy says that Blacks or women or whichever group cannot compete equally with others, are not as smart (a need to add points to test), more ignorant, etc. etc.

That is racism is the purest form and the AA is the protected child of liberals and demokrats.

Thanks
RC



Look at this way and this is from an African American perspective. How long has the United States of America been in existence? How long did slavery exist? What happen to many African Americans who attempted to start their own businesses and industries between reconstruction and the civil rights movement? People of color were often turned away from corporate and/or manufacturing jobs even though they were well qualified. Many were often under-valued, under-estimated and marginalized to work jobs way under their qualifications. Ever heard the phrase, “well we would like to hire you, but you are over-qualified for this position”. I’ll admit that some got pass this and became successful, but those happy endings were rare. Some who started their own companies were often faced with jealousy and racial hatred. Since you are from Oklahoma you should be familiar with the history of black Wall Street and how an entire community was bomb and burned to the ground over racial hate and jealousy. This area was not the first and it was not the last either. So when the civil rights bill was passed into law the government had to find a way to help those who have been tormented for 300+ years a way to catch up by trying to even the play field. Sir, we are only 40 years removed from this and though some progress has been made there is still a lot to do. I have quoted this more than once, “True integration is the sharing of power, resources and responsibility” and unfortunately this is has not yet been achieved. AA, help promote this.


The only reason Affirmative Action is an issue is because of the misconception that it is going to take away jobs from white males. The whole misconception has even evolved to a black vs. white. That's rubbish. It is only a tool to promote diversity in the work place and institutes for higher learning. The gain has been marginal at best for ethnic races, but like I said in my earlier post the gains are very significant among white women. So the anger should not be toward African Americans, Latinos, or any other race. Maybe the anger should be toward white women who have benefited more. Many companies and/or institutions who don't meet standards of diversity are rarely penalized unless there is a record and well documented proof of blatant discrimination. I can say I have benefited from Affirmative Action but my credentials are very good and I’m well qualified to be a senior software engineer for just about any IT based company in this country. If I was around before Affirmative Action was initiated or when the civil rights bill was passed I more than likely would not have this nice job despite my credentials and qualifications.



buckifn -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 6:04:10 PM)

yes, it is racist..and I for one am totally SICK of hearing the race card brought into anything and everything happening these days.

Reverse discrimination is no less evil than any form of discrimination.



rcjames -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 6:09:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ken1906_4
Look at this way and this is from an African American perspective. How long has the United States of America been in existence? How long did slavery exist? What happen to many African Americans who attempted to start their own businesses and industries between reconstruction and the civil rights movement? People of color were often turned away from corporate and/or manufacturing jobs even though they were well qualified. Many were often under-valued, under-estimated and marginalized to work jobs way under their qualifications. Ever heard the phrase, “well we would like to hire you, but you are over-qualified for this position”. I’ll admit that some got pass this and became successful, but those happy endings were rare. Some who started their own companies were often faced with jealousy and racial hatred. Since you are from Oklahoma you should be familiar with the history of black Wall Street and how an entire community was bomb and burned to the ground over racial hate and jealousy. This area was not the first and it was not the last either. So when the civil rights bill was passed into law the government had to find a way to help those who have been tormented for 300+ years a way to catch up by trying to even the play field. Sir, we are only 40 years removed from this and though some progress has been made there is still a lot to do. I have quoted this more than once, “True integration is the sharing of power, resources and responsibility” and unfortunately this is has not yet been achieved. AA, help promote this.


And what does any of this have to do with the present day. Any black that is under 50 years of age had access to intergrated schools and the same educational opportunities as the vast majority of whites (the small percentage in private schools would be the only difference in educational opportunity).

Why would the black (brown, etc.) be chosem over others because of their race. (the Hopwood vs. University of Tesas is a good example). The more qualified white student was passed by to allow lower scoreing less qualifies minorities into the law school.

Now that shows that the University of Texas had a racist attitude that blacks and hispanics could not compete on an equal playing field, so they gave advantage to those they had prejudice against.

Now Personally I do not feel that any race has a comprehension advantage over anyother race

So my contention is that AA advocates place those they are claiming to help into a prefudiced group they think are functionally and intellegently less capable that other groups. And that is prejidice and racist in the first degree.

Thanks
RC.



Jeff_from_Kentucky -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 6:13:54 PM)

Affirmative Action is racist. It calls for people to get a job based on their ethnicity and/or gender, not on their qualifications. When I call an ambulance I want the people who respond to be the best qualified for the job, not someone who got the job simply because they are considered a minority. I want the best person for the job, regardless of their gender or ethnicity.

Just over two months ago I was hired to be a police dispatcher for a local university. In order to hire me, a white male, the person making the hiring decision had to prove to the HR department that I was indeed the best qualified because HR was pushing the PD to hire a minority person because, according to AA, minorities have preference over white males.



Closie -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 6:32:51 PM)

I was accepted to graduate school in the 90s. The standard was GPA at least 3.2 and at least one GRE score above a certain percentile (can't remember exactly, I think it was 50 or 60). My GPA was above 3.2 and I had two GRE scores above the minimum. I was admitted and told what my package would be based on department funding. To make it official though, I had to go for an interview. When I got there, things went well. Shortly thereafter however, I was told that I could get a package for minority students. Same funding, same responsibilities but through the minority scholarship. I took it. By doing that, another student could get the Department package. Fast forward to all of the doc students sitting around talking and this white guy was complaining that he was notified so late in the game that he had department support. I realized from the timeline that when I moved over to minority, he was able to get in. Later on I was meddling in department files - yes I was wrong - and saw that ratings wise, I was #2 coming in and that he was the fourth on the list. So in that case, a white male benefited from affirmative action.

Fast forward to January 2008 when a potential student at my current college said, thinking she was out my hearing range (I guess), after she saw me, "I never had to have a black professor before". I don't remember what she looks like or know her name and I don't want to know. If she comes, I don't want to be accused of any bias. But I wonder how she'll treat any black people who have to work forher someday.



ken1906_4 -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 6:33:39 PM)

Well you know, you all are going to believe what you want even if the facts and myths of AA are stated or not. I'm not surprised. [:D]

Do some unbiased research on the matter. Heck I was against AA for a long time until I discovered why it was and still is necessary.



saved9201 -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 6:34:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ken1906_4

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

I consider AA to be a racist policy because it takes a segment of the population and declares theat "Those People" are deficient to the other folks.

The policy says that Blacks or women or whichever group cannot compete equally with others, are not as smart (a need to add points to test), more ignorant, etc. etc.

That is racism is the purest form and the AA is the protected child of liberals and demokrats.

Thanks
RC



Look at this way and this is from an African American perspective. How long has the United States of America been in existence? How long did slavery exist? What happen to many African Americans who attempted to start their own businesses and industries between reconstruction and the civil rights movement? People of color were often turned away from corporate and/or manufacturing jobs even though they were well qualified. Many were often under-valued, under-estimated and marginalized to work jobs way under their qualifications. Ever heard the phrase, “well we would like to hire you, but you are over-qualified for this position”. I’ll admit that some got pass this and became successful, but those happy endings were rare. Some who started their own companies were often faced with jealousy and racial hatred. Since you are from Oklahoma you should be familiar with the history of black Wall Street and how an entire community was bomb and burned to the ground over racial hate and jealousy. This area was not the first and it was not the last either. So when the civil rights bill was passed into law the government had to find a way to help those who have been tormented for 300+ years a way to catch up by trying to even the play field. Sir, we are only 40 years removed from this and though some progress has been made there is still a lot to do. I have quoted this more than once, “True integration is the sharing of power, resources and responsibility” and unfortunately this is has not yet been achieved. AA, help promote this.


The only reason Affirmative Action is an issue is because of the misconception that it is going to take away jobs from white males. The whole misconception has even evolved to a black vs. white. That's rubbish. It is only a tool to promote diversity in the work place and institutes for higher learning. The gain has been marginal at best for ethnic races, but like I said in my earlier post the gains are very significant among white women. So the anger should not be toward African Americans, Latinos, or any other race. Maybe the anger should be toward white women who have benefited more. Many companies and/or institutions who don't meet standards of diversity are rarely penalized unless there is a record and well documented proof of blatant discrimination. I can say I have benefited from Affirmative Action but my credentials are very good and I’m well qualified to be a senior software engineer for just about any IT based company in this country. If I was around before Affirmative Action was initiated or when the civil rights bill was passed I more than likely would not have this nice job despite my credentials and qualifications.


As usual, great post Ken. Unfortunately, I'm probably only one of the few here who read it in it's entirety. Most people have already made up their minds about this issue.

- Julius



Closie -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 6:40:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky

Affirmative Action is racist. It calls for people to get a job based on their ethnicity and/or gender, not on their qualifications. When I call an ambulance I want the people who respond to be the best qualified for the job, not someone who got the job simply because they are considered a minority. I want the best person for the job, regardless of their gender or ethnicity.

Just over two months ago I was hired to be a police dispatcher for a local university. In order to hire me, a white male, the person making the hiring decision had to prove to the HR department that I was indeed the best qualified because HR was pushing the PD to hire a minority person because, according to AA, minorities have preference over white males.


Did you get the job? How long did the AA process take and was there an impact on your salary or starting date because of it? Which KY governor authorized the regs to implement the guidelines for state agencies, including the universities, have to follow?



ken1906_4 -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 6:45:09 PM)

Our president benefited from a form of AA. [:D] He got in Yale with average grades. We all know he was unqualified to go there. Probably took someone else's spot because of who his father was. His qualifications were based on his father being an influential alumnus with a lot of money.
I had excellent grades, good SAT's scores, a star athlete, and participated in a lot organizations and I still could not get into Yale. [&:]



Jeff_from_Kentucky -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 7:06:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Closie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky

Affirmative Action is racist. It calls for people to get a job based on their ethnicity and/or gender, not on their qualifications. When I call an ambulance I want the people who respond to be the best qualified for the job, not someone who got the job simply because they are considered a minority. I want the best person for the job, regardless of their gender or ethnicity.

Just over two months ago I was hired to be a police dispatcher for a local university. In order to hire me, a white male, the person making the hiring decision had to prove to the HR department that I was indeed the best qualified because HR was pushing the PD to hire a minority person because, according to AA, minorities have preference over white males.


Did you get the job? How long did the AA process take and was there an impact on your salary or starting date because of it? Which KY governor authorized the regs to implement the guidelines for state agencies, including the universities, have to follow?


Yes, I got the job but it took two weeks for HR to approve it, which means that it did affect my start date by two weeks. The salary was already set ahead of time by University regulation.

The point is, why should the person making the hiring decision have to "prove" that I was the most qualified? I was the ONLY applicant with a college degree AND with EXPERIENCE as a dispatcher, which was on my application in the first place. If I was black, hispanic, asian, or a woman, HR would have rubber stamped the hiring without question. Instead, the person who hired me had to fill out a couple dozen forms and jump through hoops just to hire me because I am a white male. That is ridiculous!

Affirmative Action needs to go!



Jeff_from_Kentucky -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 7:22:27 PM)

In all fairness, I will say that Affirmative Action was a good idea as envisioned by President Kennedy. And it did do a great deal of good for minorities for about 15-20 years. But, it is no longer needed because the United States is not the same place it was 46 years ago. Times, circumstances, and people have changed. It is not needed anymore. It is divisive and serves no useful purpose. Instead of having Affirmative Action, why don't we simply change the law to read that the most qualified person gets the job, or the admission to college, regardless of race, ethnicity, gender, etc?

Equal treatment. Isn't that what the United States is supposed to be about? Affirmative Action does not treat people equally. That is why I am against it.



Closie -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 7:24:17 PM)

If the person told you he had to fill out a dozen forms, he was exaggerating. I've had to do those forms at two different KY univerisities. There are four forms for staff and four for faculty. Each takes about a minute to complete. Each time for faculty, the approval came the next day. Once for staff, it took 3 days (5 including the weekend) because the EEOC director (a female) wasn't in the office. So if indeed it took 2 weeks and a dozen forms, that is peculiar to that particular university not something that is mandated by any government entity. Or perhaps there was another reason....

ETA: You know that those forms are online. Go check them out and see if there are a dozen at your school. I for one would like to know if my superior were prone to either hyperbole or lying.



rcjames -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 7:33:47 PM)

Question; Would Dr. Martin Luther King have been a supporter of AA?

Not according to his I have a dream speech.

quote:

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.


As long as there is Affirmative Action, then the above part of his dread will not have come to pass.

Affirmative Action still judges by the color of the skin, and nt by the content of one's character.

Thanks
RC



ken1906_4 -> RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? (5/20/2008 7:51:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

Question; Would Dr. Martin Luther King have been a supporter of AA?

Not according to his I have a dream speech.

quote:

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.


As long as there is Affirmative Action, then the above part of his dread will not have come to pass.

Affirmative Action still judges by the color of the skin, and nt by the content of one's character.

Thanks
RC


Come off that stuff. I mean seriously. Stop putting MLK in that "I Have a Dream" box. There was more to that speech than what you quoted. There was more to him than "I Have A Dream". According to a lot of his speeches after the March On Washington he probably would have been for it, but I digress.



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