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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 1:28:22 PM
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Kath
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xsweetheartforux
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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 1:59:24 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
Look I'll be honest, I haven't liked some of the things that have been said in response to Senator Kennedy's illness. I hate that anyone suffers. I hate that anyone feels pain. It becomes personal to me for reasons I can't really explain.
I know the feeling and Mr. Kenndy is partly the cause for millions to suffer for nothing other than his personal quest for power...
quote:
It bothers me greatly that there are people who think we shouldn't pray for Senator Kennedy's health and that they say he doesn't deserve such prayers.
It bothers me greatly that anyone would hope that someone who supports mass murder would regain their health so they could continue on with their work. Might as well stand at the gate of the death camp and tell those who wish to stop the death there to simply pray and forgive and not bother to stop the genecide...
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The truth of the matter is that none of us deserve it, no not one. We've all done wretched things in the eyes of God, yet He loved us so much that He sent His only begotten Son, Jesus, to suffer and die for us. Us.
Your truth seems ignore the distinctions between the temporal and the eternal... You may wish to believe that some folks in this world are not more evil than others, but that's not the case...
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Where I take issue is the notion that he doesn't deserve it or warrant it because of the things he's done.
Actually is more like what he's doing... It's not like he gave up his evil ways...
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How many times must we forgive those who transgress against us? Jesus answered seventy times seven times, meaning that we must always have a forgiving heart.
I seem to recall Peter asking how many times to forgive a brother, not just anyone...
John
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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 4:04:37 PM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 726
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
Look I'll be honest, I haven't liked some of the things that have been said in response to Senator Kennedy's illness. I hate that anyone suffers. I hate that anyone feels pain. It becomes personal to me for reasons I can't really explain.
I know the feeling and Mr. Kenndy is partly the cause for millions to suffer for nothing other than his personal quest for power...
quote:
It bothers me greatly that there are people who think we shouldn't pray for Senator Kennedy's health and that they say he doesn't deserve such prayers.
It bothers me greatly that anyone would hope that someone who supports mass murder would regain their health so they could continue on with their work. Might as well stand at the gate of the death camp and tell those who wish to stop the death there to simply pray and forgive and not bother to stop the genecide...
quote:
The truth of the matter is that none of us deserve it, no not one. We've all done wretched things in the eyes of God, yet He loved us so much that He sent His only begotten Son, Jesus, to suffer and die for us. Us.
Your truth seems ignore the distinctions between the temporal and the eternal... You may wish to believe that some folks in this world are not more evil than others, but that's not the case...
quote:
Where I take issue is the notion that he doesn't deserve it or warrant it because of the things he's done.
Actually is more like what he's doing... It's not like he gave up his evil ways...
quote:
How many times must we forgive those who transgress against us? Jesus answered seventy times seven times, meaning that we must always have a forgiving heart.
I seem to recall Peter asking how many times to forgive a brother, not just anyone...
John
All the peoples of the world are my brothers and sisters. Some of them haven't been called to Christ and I pray for them. Some have come to Christ and hold anger in their hearts towards others, and I pray for them too. I love people, and it saddens me that Christians seem to be taking the opinion that we're better than others when the truth is that we're just as wretched in the eyes of God. Have some people done worse things than others? Absolutely. Does that make me less wretched in the eyes of Father God? Not at all.
Senator Kennedy's suffering saddens me, just as the suffering of the unborn saddens me. Both are tragic and equally sad, at least to me.
I pray for both the Senator's health AND his salvation. The two, as I've repeatedly pointed out, are not mutually exclusive yet you seem to think that they are. Strange that.
Christ has forgiven me, so I can forgive the Senator. How is this a difficult concept to grasp?
I am very much aware of how horrible people can be. Several times in my life people have attacked me, thrown rocks at me, and held me underwater. For no reason other than the fact I was different. I've experienced hatred so intense that it would make many people buckle under sheer malevolance of it all. I can forgive that though, at least now. It took me many years to come to this point. Holding on to that anger does nothing. Praying that the Senator be healed and come to Christ, all for the Glory of Father God, now that actually does something. Wouldn't you agree?
< Message edited by jkdjr25 -- 5/29/2008 4:18:18 PM >
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 4:19:24 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2105
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Christ has forgiven me, so I can forgive the Senator. How is this a difficult concept to grasp?
So far as I can see by the man's actions, he hasn't asked for forgiveness. So how then can he be forgiven if he hasn't asked for and accepted it? Scripture makes it very clear that there is no forgiveness without repentance. The offer of forgiveness, yes, but repentance is absolutely crucial to the Chrisitan walk.
Has anybody heard Ted Kennedy repent or show any measure of remorse for allowing Mary Jo Kopechne to die? He he expressed his grief over his support for the murder of children?
(Insert sound of crickets chirping....)
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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 4:27:06 PM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 726
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
Christ has forgiven me, so I can forgive the Senator. How is this a difficult concept to grasp?
So far as I can see by the man's actions, he hasn't asked for forgiveness. So how then can he be forgiven if he hasn't asked for and accepted it? Scripture makes it very clear that there is no forgiveness without repentance. The offer of forgiveness, yes, but repentance is absolutely crucial to the Chrisitan walk.
Has anybody heard Ted Kennedy repent or show any measure of remorse for allowing Mary Jo Kopechne to die? He he expressed his grief over his support for the murder of children?
(Insert sound of crickets chirping....)
God will not forgive without repentance, this much is very true, but God also commands us to have forgiving hearts. After all how can we expect to be forgiven if we are unwilling to forgive. That is the attitude, one of unwillingness to even consider forgiveness, that I and others have commented on. It's a troubling attitude and one I don't expect to hear from professing Christians.
I cannot and will not allow myself to fall into the pit of rage and anger that held me captive for so many years by having an unforgiving heart. I can forgive because I believe that's what God wants me to do. You don't have to agree, but that doesn't make me in the wrong.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 4:30:02 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
All the peoples of the world are my brothers and sisters.
That's your personal prerogative, but Peter was talking about brothers in Christ... You quoted the bible...
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Have some people done worse things than others? Absolutely. Does that make me less wretched in the eyes of Father God? Not at all.
The concept of greater and lesser sin is biblical... Christ told Pilate that his sin was lesser than that of others...
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Senator Kennedy's suffering saddens me, just as the suffering of the unborn saddens me. Both are tragic and equally sad, at least to me.
No... The suffering of the uborn is by the hand of others...They are murdered... It's not the same...
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I pray for both the Senator's health AND his salvation. The two, as I've repeatedly pointed out, are not mutually exclusive yet you seem to think that they are. Strange that.
I pray that God deal with those who murder the unborn and those who support the unborn...
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Christ has forgiven me, so I can forgive the Senator. How is this a difficult concept to grasp?
Forgive of him what? Do you forgiven him daily? Has he sought forgiveness? Does he even care to?
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Praying that the Senator be healed and come to Christ, all for the Glory of Father God, now that actually does something. Wouldn't you agree?
No less than David praying for God to crush/destroy his enemies, all for the Glory of God...
John
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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 4:33:05 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
God will not forgive without repentance, this much is very true, but God also commands us to have forgiving hearts. After all how can we expect to be forgiven if we are unwilling to forgive. That is the attitude, one of unwillingness to even consider forgiveness, that I and others have commented on. It's a troubling attitude and one I don't expect to hear from professing Christians.
Would you stop someone from killing a child?
John
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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 4:38:11 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5068
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Jesus Land
Status: online
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quote:
That is the attitude, one of unwillingness to even consider forgiveness, that I and others have commented on .
If Senator Kennedy were to repent, I'm sure everyone here would embrace him as a brother.
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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 5:57:38 PM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 726
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
God will not forgive without repentance, this much is very true, but God also commands us to have forgiving hearts. After all how can we expect to be forgiven if we are unwilling to forgive. That is the attitude, one of unwillingness to even consider forgiveness, that I and others have commented on. It's a troubling attitude and one I don't expect to hear from professing Christians.
Would you stop someone from killing a child?
John
Not by killing them in turn and certainly not by praying for that person's destruction. I'd rather pray for their salvation thanks.
This is the attitude that bothers me. Yes we should pray for a change in the nation, but you also better put some feet to that as well. Work to bring about a change by actually getting involved. But no. That would actually require people to actually put something on the line. It's easy to just pray, and don't get me wrong we should be doing that; but we need to put those desires into action as well. Talking to people, showing them the love that Christ told us to show. These are ALL things you need to do.
You will never convince me that it's wrong to pray for BOTH someone's health AND their salvation. The two are not mutually exclusive. If you weren't so blinded and deafened by the anger you hold in your heart you'd see that.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 7:24:27 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
Not by killing them in turn
Would you stop them... yes or no?
quote:
and certainly not by praying for that person's destruction.
Was King David wrong to pray for the destruction of people?
quote:
If you weren't so blinded and deafened by the anger you hold in your heart you'd see that.
You claim the suffering imposed by Mr. Kennedy is the same as him being inflicted with a tumor and you say I am the one who is blind...
Btw... Is abortion murder?
John
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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 7:51:54 PM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 726
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
Not by killing them in turn
Would you stop them... yes or no?
quote:
and certainly not by praying for that person's destruction.
Was King David wrong to pray for the destruction of people?
quote:
If you weren't so blinded and deafened by the anger you hold in your heart you'd see that.
You claim the suffering imposed by Mr. Kennedy is the same as him being inflicted with a tumor and you say I am the one who is blind...
Btw... Is abortion murder?
John
If you were interested in anything other than being confrontational you'd know the answer to your question.
Your attitude is precisely the thing I've talked about in other threads. What happened to the love we're supposed to show to the whole world? You know the same love that God showed in sending Christ to suffer and die for us?
I'm not going to dignify your abortion question with a response because you don't really care what my answer would be. All you want is to berate and demean someone who doesn't hate sinners the way you seem to.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 8:03:36 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
Not by killing them in turn
Would you stop them... yes or no?
quote:
and certainly not by praying for that person's destruction.
Was King David wrong to pray for the destruction of people?
quote:
If you weren't so blinded and deafened by the anger you hold in your heart you'd see that.
You claim the suffering imposed by Mr. Kennedy is the same as him being inflicted with a tumor and you say I am the one who is blind...
Btw... Is abortion murder?
John
If you were interested in anything other than being confrontational you'd know the answer to your question.
Your attitude is precisely the thing I've talked about in other threads. What happened to the love we're supposed to show to the whole world? You know the same love that God showed in sending Christ to suffer and die for us?
I'm not going to dignify your abortion question with a response because you don't really care what my answer would be. All you want is to berate and demean someone who doesn't hate sinners the way you seem to.
I noticed you've ignored the King David question more than once and danced around the stoping someone for killing a child question...
I asked the abortion question because I believe it pertains to topic... Your silence speak volumes...
John
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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 8:09:16 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
Posts: 865
Joined: 9/6/2007
From: SW Missouri
Status: offline
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I have read several of the bible stories where God killed people and even wiped out entire civilizations for their sin. There was one that threw their newborn children into a fire as a sacrifice. I sometimes wonder if our current civilization is not so different. Our God is a just God who hates sin. God is not a grandpa in the sky waiting to give us presents even when we act horrible. Just because someone is indifferent to an evil man who is about meet his God does not mean they are happy about any ones suffering.
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<------- Jessica and I had so much fun with grandma!
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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 8:15:23 PM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 726
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
Not by killing them in turn
Would you stop them... yes or no?
quote:
and certainly not by praying for that person's destruction.
Was King David wrong to pray for the destruction of people?
quote:
If you weren't so blinded and deafened by the anger you hold in your heart you'd see that.
You claim the suffering imposed by Mr. Kennedy is the same as him being inflicted with a tumor and you say I am the one who is blind...
Btw... Is abortion murder?
John
If you were interested in anything other than being confrontational you'd know the answer to your question.
Your attitude is precisely the thing I've talked about in other threads. What happened to the love we're supposed to show to the whole world? You know the same love that God showed in sending Christ to suffer and die for us?
I'm not going to dignify your abortion question with a response because you don't really care what my answer would be. All you want is to berate and demean someone who doesn't hate sinners the way you seem to.
I noticed you've ignored the King David question more than once and danced around the stoping someone for killing a child question...
I asked the abortion question because I believe it pertains to topic... Your silence speak volumes...
John
All right. Cool. I've played this game more than once in my life, but I'll bite.
Yes I believe abortion is murder. But you know what? I also don't think that overturning Roe v. Wade will do a thing unless Christians are willing to get out in the trenches and work on changing the people. Maybe you should remove the plank from your eye before conscerning yourself with the splinter in mine.
I don't like it when anyone suffers, and that includes Senator Kennedy. He's still a person, wretched in the eyes of God, the same as you're wretched in the eyes of God and I'm wretched in the eyes of God. That's why we need Christ. That's why Senator Kennedy needs him. His salvation and his health are not mutually exclusive and that's not an argument you've been able to counter.
You and others have posed the question "why would you pray for someone so they can continue to do evil?" This question totally ignores the fact that I, and others, have repeatedly stated that we wanted to pray for his salvation as well as his health. The are not mutually exclusive as you seem to think.
I'm a man of God. I love people because that is what we are called to do. I hate it when people are sick, I hate it when they suffer, I hate it when they're in pain. I feel that pain very personally for all people. To answer an earlier question I'd pray for Osama Bin Laden if his healing meant that he would fall at his knees before the Cross and welcome Christ into his heart as Lord and Saviour.
You, on the other hand, seem to delight in the Senator's suffering. You seem to take pleasure in the fact that's been diagnosed with a terminal brain tumor. Granted I can't know this for certain, but the tone and language of your posts heavily implies this.
This attitude of unforgiveness is a growing problem and I pray it's one the Christian community solves soon.
God bless.
< Message edited by jkdjr25 -- 5/29/2008 8:32:21 PM >
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 8:15:46 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 1940
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
"If you want to avoid judgement, stop passing judgement
Judgment cannot be avoided...
So Jesus told us a fib?
quote:
quote:
Your verdict on others will be the verdict passed on to you.
The measure with which you measure will be used to measure you." Matthew 7:1-2
You forgot some thing...
Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
A simple reading of the above makes it clear that one can judge...
If you are pure and without sin! Are you pure and without sin?
quote:
quote:
We all will answer for the sins we have done.
If that's truly the case everyone is going to hell... Care to rethink your statement?
Nope!!
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you shall knew them by their fruit...
John
Yes you shall!! 
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 8:37:16 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
Yes I believe abortion is murder.
So that means you believe that Mr. Kennedy supports mass murder, and does so from a position of authority and in order to maintain his position of power, correct?
quote:
But you know what? I also don't think that overturning Roe v. Wade will do a thing unless Christians are willing to get out in the trenches and work on changing the people.
Aboriton increased after 1973... You seem to be on the fence so to speak on the issue... Do believe the law against murder outside the womb is pointless as well, or is that somehow not the same?
quote:
Maybe you should remove the plank from your eye before conscering yourself with the splinter in mine.
What plank are you referring too? For that matter what sin are you speaking off that I said you committed?
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That's why Senator Kennedy needs him. His salvation and his health are not mutually exclusive and that's not an argument you've been able to counter.
I have... King David prayed for the descruction of his enemies...
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To answer an earlier question I'd pray for Osama Bin Laden if his healing meant that we would fall at his knees before the Cross and welcome Christ into his heart as Lord and Saviour.
I am sure we could all make up interesting hypothetical’s....
quote:
You, on the other hand, seem to delight in the Senator's suffering. You seem to take pleasure in the fact that's been diagnosed with a terminal brain tumor. Granted I can't know this for certain, but the tone and language of your posts heavily implies this.
Nope... False charge... I have plainly said what I feel and I don't mince words...
John
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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 9:35:36 PM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 726
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
Yes I believe abortion is murder.
So that means you believe that Mr. Kennedy supports mass murder, and does so from a position of authority and in order to maintain his position of power, correct?
quote:
But you know what? I also don't think that overturning Roe v. Wade will do a thing unless Christians are willing to get out in the trenches and work on changing the people.
Aboriton increased after 1973... You seem to be on the fence so to speak on the issue... Do believe the law against murder outside the womb is pointless as well, or is that somehow not the same?
quote:
Maybe you should remove the plank from your eye before conscering yourself with the splinter in mine.
What plank are you referring too? For that matter what sin are you speaking off that I said you committed?
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That's why Senator Kennedy needs him. His salvation and his health are not mutually exclusive and that's not an argument you've been able to counter.
I have... King David prayed for the descruction of his enemies...
quote:
To answer an earlier question I'd pray for Osama Bin Laden if his healing meant that we would fall at his knees before the Cross and welcome Christ into his heart as Lord and Saviour.
I am sure we could all make up interesting hypothetical’s....
quote:
You, on the other hand, seem to delight in the Senator's suffering. You seem to take pleasure in the fact that's been diagnosed with a terminal brain tumor. Granted I can't know this for certain, but the tone and language of your posts heavily implies this.
Nope... False charge... I have plainly said what I feel and I don't mince words...
John
So praying for the Senator's death is the Christian thing to do? Praying that God both brings him to salvation AND restores his health is somehow not the "Christian" way? So I guess Jesus would have just struck him dead where he stood. I mean he's certainly not worth saving, now those righteous Pharisees those were the right kind of people to emulate. I mean they were so loud about being righteous and upright that Jesus came to save them right?
Oh wait. That's not it at all.
Jesus came for the worst of us. The sinners, the sick, the wretched and the outcast. If Kennedy's healing will be the impetus for his salvation then I pray it happen soon for the Glory of Father God. You may pray for his death but that's not my way, nor do I believe that God desires me to pray for his death. Salvation and health are note, let me repeat that, are NOT mutually exclusive.
And there's no way that you can ever convince me otherwise.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 9:56:21 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
So praying for the Senator's death is the Christian thing to do?
The bible is clear that one can pray for the desctuction of one's enemies... Unless you can show David was at fault for doing so...
quote:
So I guess Jesus would have just struck him dead where he stood.
He has... He took out the entire population cept for eight people... Read Acts 5.... He took their lives for telling a lie..
quote:
You may pray for his death but that's not my way, nor do I believe that God desires me to pray for his death.
I wonder what you'd would have done in the 1940's when churches had prayer meetings for the downfall of Hitler... In fact his death...
John
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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 10:16:07 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 10942
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
Status: offline
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
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RE: Ted Kennedy diagnosed with malignant brain tumor... - 5/29/2008 10:17:02 PM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 726
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
So praying for the Senator's death is the Christian thing to do?
The bible is clear that one can pray for the desctuction of one's enemies... Unless you can show David was at fault for doing so...
quote:
So I guess Jesus would have just struck him dead where he stood.
He has... He took out the entire population cept for eight people... Read Acts 5.... He took their lives for telling a lie..
quote:
You may pray for his death but that's not my way, nor do I believe that God desires me to pray for his death.
I wonder what you'd would have done in the 1940's when churches had prayer meetings for the downfall of Hitler... In fact his death...
John
And the thread has been offically Godwined. Thank you for playing but you fail. Epic fail no less.
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I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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