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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/11/2008 4:04:55 PM
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yustme
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
And no,there is no way you could understand what church was like in the 40's & 50's anymore than I can understand what It was like in the30's and before that because I wasn't born than
Re-read your own post, yustme. It sounds like those of you born before teh 60's have some kind of market cornered on the moving of the holy spirit. And because a newer generation worships differently than you do, then it must not be of God.
I find it incredibly arrogant of any of us to think that God is somehow only pleased by the type of worship that WE are comfortable with.....
Ya know Tafkam,you have a way of really hurting people,and you're good at it.No one has cornered the market on the way the HS works.We can't do that.That's the job of the HS only.However He won't do things our way.It has to be His way or no way.In all of your posts,you always say what WE prefer.God doesn't care what WE want or how WE want to do anything.It has to be His way.Our heart's can be very much into Him,but if our actions are displeasing to Him,He may still bless us,but He won't be pleased with how we are doing things.
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/11/2008 4:07:07 PM
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Corne
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Even the word manifestation means different things to different people. A pastor I know describes manifestations in a service as human response to the Spirit. Human response. Personalities influence how one reacts to a spiritual encounter. Yes so do crowds. Does not automatically mean it's wrong because it's a group reaction or style.
"Move of the Spirit" does not mean the same thing to everyone either.
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/11/2008 4:16:39 PM
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earthless
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Corne,
All very valid points - yet you do know what I and others are talking about when we talk about it as a genuine move of the Holy Spirit, correct?
Because that is what I am referring to in this context and discussion.
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/11/2008 4:17:50 PM
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tafkam
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quote:
However He won't do things our way.It has to be His way or no way.In all of your posts,you always say what WE prefer.God doesn't care what WE want or how WE want to do anything.It has to be His way.Our heart's can be very much into Him,but if our actions are displeasing to Him,He may still bless us,but He won't be pleased with how we are doing things.
Y'know, you really make God sound like a shallow, insecure entity. I've said it before, when it comes to physical manifestation of worship, be it dance, or song, or playing an instrument, or even preaching.....we are such flawed imperfect beings, that even our best effort will be nothing more than cacophonous noise to a perfect, holy God.
Scripture tells us that man looks on appearance, but God looks on the heart. That alone tells me that God is more concerned about our spiritual state than whether or not the singer hits every note just right or the dancer hits the beat every time.....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/11/2008 5:33:11 PM
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rcjames
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Eathless, would not all sincere worship of God be Holy Spirit directed and by such be a "Move" of the Holy Spirit?
Whether it be a group singing the Doxology or another group singing and dancing in praise, glory, and honor to God.
I do not see any difference in the two; as long as both are sincere, then both will be led by the Holy Spirit. They have both been around for as long as our Faith has been recorded.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/11/2008 5:36:47 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Eathless, would not all sincere worship of God be Holy Spirit directed and by such be a "Move" of the Holy Spirit?
Whether it be a group singing the Doxology or another group singing and dancing in praise, glory, and honor to God.
I do not see any difference in the two; as long as both are sincere, then both will be led by the Holy Spirit. They have both been around for as long as our Faith has been recorded.
Thanks
RC
Excellent questions and points, RC. And I agree with your sentiment, fully. The definition some have used is that of something being done by the Holy Spirit in that the individuals partaking of it lose control of their minds, their bodies, their wills.
Situations/events/practices where in they claim that it was God moving (doing) and not something they could resist and or have any say over.
Akin to what many claim is being "slain in the spirit"....
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/12/2008 1:45:51 PM
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bluestone
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I have seen people get blessed and run the aisles and shout, but they were excited about the message, or the Lord touching them in some way.
They were never in a trance or out of control.
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/16/2008 8:45:13 AM
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yustme
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
I have seen people get blessed and run the aisles and shout, but they were excited about the message, or the Lord touching them in some way.
They were never in a trance or out of control.
WOW!How misunderstood many of these posts are! NO ONE is in a trance,and if they are,it's not of the HS.Years my dad,a Nazarene Preacher,made the statement,"there's coming a day when the HS will very seldom be a part of the service and human emotions will take over and the people will no longer know or see the difference between them because of the type of music".He saw the music beginnihg to change,and it concerned him deeply.
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/16/2008 9:30:27 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
...The definition some have used is that of something being done by the Holy Spirit in that the individuals partaking of it lose control of their minds, their bodies, their wills.
Situations/events/practices where in they claim that it was God moving (doing) and not something they could resist and or have any say over....
Would this not be contrare to this Scripture;
(1Co 14:32) And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
Paul was using this in relation to the proper use of tongues and order in the Church; would it not also apply to "Dancing in the Spirit"?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/16/2008 9:32:19 AM
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tafkam
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quote:
He saw the music beginnihg to change,and it concerned him deeply.
Um, music has been changing and constantly evolving stylistically ever since the first caveman took a stick and pounded out a primitive rhythm on a rock.
So why after thousands of years of music, and the use of music as a part of worship, are you just now concerned about the abandonment of the HS?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/18/2008 2:56:11 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
...The definition some have used is that of something being done by the Holy Spirit in that the individuals partaking of it lose control of their minds, their bodies, their wills.
Situations/events/practices where in they claim that it was God moving (doing) and not something they could resist and or have any say over....
Would this not be contrare to this Scripture;
(1Co 14:32) And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
Paul was using this in relation to the proper use of tongues and order in the Church; would it not also apply to "Dancing in the Spirit"?
Thanks
RC
We would first have to ask where is "dancing/(THE GIFT) in the Spirit" in the Word?
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/18/2008 3:14:30 PM
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yustme
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
He saw the music beginnihg to change,and it concerned him deeply.
Um, music has been changing and constantly evolving stylistically ever since the first caveman took a stick and pounded out a primitive rhythm on a rock.
So why after thousands of years of music, and the use of music as a part of worship, are you just now concerned about the abandonment of the HS?
Because for the first 20 to 30 yrs of my life I,like many others have experienced the work and moving of the HS as the great saints of many yrs gone by.It is completely different today.There is a great emotional stirring taking place.I not saying it's wrong or even a sin,I'm only saying it's completely different than when the HS takes control.In a fleshly dance,we are in control.In a Spiritual dance the HS Is in control.And no it's not a trance.
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/18/2008 4:45:50 PM
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tafkam
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quote:
In a fleshly dance,we are in control.In a Spiritual dance the HS Is in control.And no it's not a trance.
I'm not even sure why I'm asking, but can you provide Scripture on this (as it pertains to dancing)?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/18/2008 7:05:00 PM
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yustme
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I can't tell you where it's found,but there is a Scripture that says if we live to the flesh we will reap to the flesh.If we live in the Spirit we will reap to the Spirit.And thank you for asking gently without the sarcasm.I liked that.
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/18/2008 7:24:07 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
there is a Scripture that says if we live to the flesh we will reap to the flesh.If we live in the Spirit we will reap to the Spirit.
Yes, but how does that support what some call a genuine movement of the Holy Spirit termed "dancing in the spirit"?
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/20/2008 10:17:45 AM
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solarflare
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I have not found a scripture that contains the phrase :Dancing in the Spirit.
If there is one, please do post it because I don't know of one.
On the other hand, David danced UNTO or BEFORE the Lord - depending on the translation (as per above scripture) \- and not IN the Spirit. For those who say, well, we are now under a different dispensation - NT - and we are all 'filled' with the HS, pls. remember that the Spirit of God (HS)
was given, by God, to those individuals he had chosen to speak on His behalf - even King Saul had that annointing at one time.
So, the question remains, Is the expression 'dancing in the Spirit' scripturally correct, or is it an idiomatic phrase incorporated into Charismatic and Pentecostal circles to put a stamp of approval on that done in a church whether or not it is 'done in the Spirit'? ie. well, if we are going to do it and we are doing it in church and we are filled with the Holy Spirit, then we must be dancing in the Spirit.
Further, I do not believe that one should dance not knowing what they are doing. I do not find any Scripture references to loosing control and 'not knowing what we are doing'.
FYI - I have danced UNTO or BEFORE the Lord. I take exception to an act of worship or offering on my part to the Lord, as being "in the Spirit"
Now, I believe that John on Patmos, was "in the Spirit' but I hardly believe that most individuals nowdays are 'in the spirit'.
So, I am not anti-dancing. I am anti incorrect use of scripture, twisting same and putting the label 'spirit' on things that have not really been proven to be so.
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/20/2008 10:31:38 AM
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earthless
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Amen!
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/20/2008 2:26:25 PM
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yustme
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
I have not found a scripture that contains the phrase :Dancing in the Spirit.
If there is one, please do post it because I don't know of one.
On the other hand, David danced UNTO or BEFORE the Lord - depending on the translation (as per above scripture) \- and not IN the Spirit. For those who say, well, we are now under a different dispensation - NT - and we are all 'filled' with the HS, pls. remember that the Spirit of God (HS)
was given, by God, to those individuals he had chosen to speak on His behalf - even King Saul had that annointing at one time.
So, the question remains, Is the expression 'dancing in the Spirit' scripturally correct, or is it an idiomatic phrase incorporated into Charismatic and Pentecostal circles to put a stamp of approval on that done in a church whether or not it is 'done in the Spirit'? ie. well, if we are going to do it and we are doing it in church and we are filled with the Holy Spirit, then we must be dancing in the Spirit.
Further, I do not believe that one should dance not knowing what they are doing. I do not find any Scripture references to loosing control and 'not knowing what we are doing'.
FYI - I have danced UNTO or BEFORE the Lord. I take exception to an act of worship or offering on my part to the Lord, as being "in the Spirit"
Now, I believe that John on Patmos, was "in the Spirit' but I hardly believe that most individuals nowdays are 'in the spirit'.
So, I am not anti-dancing. I am anti incorrect use of scripture, twisting same and putting the label 'spirit' on things that have not really been proven to be so.
Perfect post.The term "dancing in the Spirit" is very man made.The act is not of ourselves,but of the HS.It is NOT a trance.The reason so many don't understand it is because they've never experienced it.
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/20/2008 2:45:04 PM
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tafkam
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quote:
The reason so many don't understand it is because they've never experienced it.
Okay, so it's not a trance, and it's not the loss of control....we've established that. So who are you or anybody else to tell me that what I am doing is of the HS or if it isn't?
Obviously, if I am worshipping in a manner that involves moving one's body in a sexually suggestive or provocative way, we can pretty much conclude that that isn't what God wants in our worship.
But beyond that, who sets the standard?
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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/20/2008 3:40:28 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
Okay, so it's not a trance, and it's not the loss of control....we've established that. So who are you or anybody else to tell me that what I am doing is of the HS or if it isn't?
You didn't address this to me, but if I might?
Of course dancing is 'of' the Holy Spirit if done in the proper manner and with understanding - it is worship - dancing can also be of the unholy spirit. Do you see what I am saying?
I would also say that at certain times we may even understand or believe that God is nudging us to dance - we may just want to worship that way before or to Him - singing, dancing - whatever - in order and in reverence and with the understanding of Who God is - that is, we want to offer up to Him what is acceptable and pleasing.
We have the example of Cain and Abel - both offered a sacrifice to God but only one was acceptable. God looks on the heart.
But again, loss of control is not scriptural. It just is not.
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/20/2008 4:00:57 PM
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earthless
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Yet the video examples we saw are of people out of control.. and again, it is not a manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Why? Because it is not found in Scripture.
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/23/2008 8:16:27 AM
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yustme
Posts: 398
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
there is a Scripture that says if we live to the flesh we will reap to the flesh.If we live in the Spirit we will reap to the Spirit.
Yes, but how does that support what some call a genuine movement of the Holy Spirit termed "dancing in the spirit"?
Because "dancing" in the flesh is is practiced/learned dance that we learn.It's something that our fleshly minds put together."Dancing in the Lord/Spirit" is when our minds,Spirit,and soul so connects with the Lord God HS that without thinking of it and without any practiced movements we begin to do what the HS guides us to do.Some cry,some walk the isles of the church waving their arms prasing God,some shout hallalujah Praise the Lord,Glory to God,some just very softly just say"I love you Jesus".But everything is done in order with no confusion.When the HS is in control,He controls everything.Anything that is done in the flesh will reap consequences.
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/23/2008 8:23:29 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
Because "dancing" in the flesh is is practiced/learned dance that we learn.It's something that our fleshly minds put together."Dancing in the Lord/Spirit" is when our minds,Spirit,and soul so connects with the Lord God HS that without thinking of it and without any practiced movements we begin to do what the HS guides us to do.
Where is the biblical foundation for this practice you're saying is a real move of the Holy Spirit?
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
Some cry,some walk the isles of the church waving their arms prasing God,some shout hallalujah Praise the Lord,Glory to God,some just very softly just say"I love you Jesus".
All those are not "dancing in the Spirit" - those can be sincere gestures on our part towards an awesome God - but that does not mean they are done out of a lack of self-control.
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
But everything is done in order with no confusion.
Not according to the video documentation we shared in the previous pages.
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RE: dancing in the Lord - 6/23/2008 11:01:10 AM
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yustme
Posts: 398
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
Because "dancing" in the flesh is is practiced/learned dance that we learn.It's something that our fleshly minds put together."Dancing in the Lord/Spirit" is when our minds,Spirit,and soul so connects with the Lord God HS that without thinking of it and without any practiced movements we begin to do what the HS guides us to do.
Where is the biblical foundation for this practice you're saying is a real move of the Holy Spirit?
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
Some cry,some walk the isles of the church waving their arms prasing God,some shout hallalujah Praise the Lord,Glory to God,some just very softly just say"I love you Jesus".
All those are not "dancing in the Spirit" - those can be sincere gestures on our part towards an awesome God - but that does not mean they are done out of a lack of self-control.
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
But everything is done in order with no confusion.
Not according to the video documentation we shared in the previous pages.
David is one example that comes to my mind.It's evident Preachers are not teaching on how the HS works in todays churches.As my Preacher daddy used to say"It's much better felt than telt" I't's almost impossible to explain the work of the HS to someone who has never experienced it.
Now as far as the video,I completely agree with you.That did not give me the inner peace of the HS.The Spirit within me said no,this is not of the HS.I believe it was of an unholy spirit.
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