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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/9/2008 5:19:46 PM
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SouthernBelleGrits
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoevil
quote:
ORIGINAL: SouthernBelleGrits
I have a BIG problem with this.  I don't think it says anywhere in the bible that one must be "extra nice" to a spouse who has betrayed her. This insinuates it is the wife's problem and responsiblity for the choices her husband makes. No matter what VIW does it does not excuse her husband's behavior. This is false guilt if you buy into that and think that you have control over the choices your husband makes. Do not apologize for your husband's wrong choices. It is up to him to apologize for them.
i don't see anywhere in the bible that one must be antagonize your spouse either. this insinuates that the betrayed spouse should heap coals upon the wayward spouse and has no responsibility to work on reconciling the marriage. VIW no one ever said you forced your husband to have an affair or should apologize for it. also be prepared for the fact that your husband may not apologize right away for the affair as he may feel justified in his mind. it may take months to get to that point for him and as donna said yes there is embarassment involved but by reconciling you can bring glory to God!
The only hot coals I see being heaped are the ones VIW is heaping on herself and her body seems to be paying the price at the moment. I don't know what would have been a good response to the waitresse's comment at the restaurant. I would have probably pulled her aside and wanted to know exactly how SHE knew that MY husband was so sweet. Would that have been disrespectful? This isn't the time to tell VIW to mind her manners. She needs to get real and get honest with her husband. VIW, based on what you have told us you seem to walk on eggshells when it comes to approaching your husband about the things weighing heavy on your heart. I don't consider it antagonisitic for a wife to express what is on her heart even if it's in front of the entire church congregation, the people at the restaurant or in the privacy of her own home. If you're angry then tell him your angry. The honesty about your feelings and thoughts will probably do wonders for your stomach ( in a positive way). Express your feelings and take ownership of them and your behavior, but please give yourself and your stomach a big hug by not condemning yourself and taking on false guilt for what your husband chooses to do when you share your heart with him. You can not control how he will react when you bring up these things. Let him react however he wants or needs to react when you have your conversation. Do not let his behavior control whether or not you choose to have this conversation with him though. Just go into it with a desire to express your heart and no expectations from him. Let him express what is on his heart too without shaming or condemning you in the process. If he starts pointing the finger at you then cling to God in that moment and do not let your husband's words of condemnation sink into your heart.
Thinking of you and praying for open and honest communication between you and your husband.
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/9/2008 9:00:01 PM
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iwillfearnoevil
Posts: 2991
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: upstate NY
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southernbellegrits - i've been suggesting she needs to talk to him and expose to parents from day 1, i've just advocated trying to behave and not drive your spouse away further. there is no physical abuse in this situation and both sides have pourted it on the emotional side so there is no life threatening situation. if anyone thinks all wayward spouses grovel back regardless of betrayed spouses actions, then i advise them to take a look at surviving an affair by dr harley. we should do our best to emulate Jesus and ask God to help us love our spouse.
i've also read and think it's good advice that if you are going to tell his parents (pastor), then you shouldn't warn him first. he will likely try to talk you out of it. and affairs thrive in darkness so this is to his advantage to delay you.
< Message edited by iwillfearnoevil -- 6/9/2008 9:07:06 PM >
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/10/2008 2:15:34 PM
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VisitorinWaiting
Posts: 836
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Here is the latest...same situation of a few posts ago happened again last night...before I said when the situation would come up, he would reaction in such and such a way, and that time he didn't, and I was so excited about it. Well, last night, he went back to the old ways...it was so horrible...I just wanted to crawl under the floor and hide. I did bring up the waitresses with him last night though... He made the comment (jokingly, I'm not sure) that he can't help it if women "dig" him. I said, "It doesn't matter how much they dig you, you are mine. And, the problem isn't making them stop digging you, it's when the digging goes too far." He said, "What do you mean?" I said, "The girls at ...... They practically swoon over you...'Oh, he's soooo sweet...he's sooo nice....it's soooo nice when he comes in here...' That's too much. Gag me with a fork, oh, puh-lease!" That part made him laugh, and he said, "You aren't serious." I said, "Oh, yes, I am. She went way too far that night." He said, "No she didn't." I said, "Alright, let's go call our friends and ask them."
"Why? Did they say something?"
"No, but I'm sure they will have an opinion if we ask them. And, I'm sure they will agree with me."
He had this questioning look on his face for a while, but then went on to something else... So, at least I opened the door to one issue... Tonight though, if things go as planned, there will be no moving on to a different subject. I plan on talking things OUT tonight...so, please, please, please pray. If you want a time, the kids are usually asleep by 9 pm est, so probably around that time...
Thanks!
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Hebrews 11:13,16 "...They said they were like visitors and strangers on earth...they were waiting for a better country, a heavenly country." (NCV)
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/10/2008 3:13:03 PM
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cindybode
Posts: 1565
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Northwest PA
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I will be praying.
It sounds like, at least on the flirting issue, he is clueless. Clueless is actually good. Clueless means he doesn't intend to hurt you, he's just . . . well, clueless. Clueless can be dealt with. I would be much more concerned if he knew he was behaving inappropriately and didn't give a rip.
There is a section for men on that website I gave you earlier. He will find lots of information there. I'd bookmark it for him and ask him to read it. If he balks, I'd suggest to him that if he's not even willing to take the time to read a website, then this marriage must not mean very much to him. This is an opportunity for him to be Christlike right there - if it's important to you that he read it, then he should read it.
Keep us posted.
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If you lock in any creature, from rats to chickens to pigs to people, 10 to 30 or more in a box and force feed them you'll create little monsters. Confinement Education School Operations (CESOs) just don't compare to naturally pastured free-ranged kids.
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/10/2008 4:47:41 PM
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VisitorinWaiting
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Thank you for your observation of the conversation. I really thought that you all would say that he was not being truthful here...knowing that something was wrong with the relationship with the girls and blowing me off when I confronted him about it. It really hadn't crossed my mind that he was clueless and didn't realize how much he was flirting. In the things I've written out to talk about tonight, I say..."I really don't want to have to ask you to quit going to that resturant...but I'd like to think that you would knowing that it's an area of contention for us..." We'll see how that goes over...
_____________________________
Hebrews 11:13,16 "...They said they were like visitors and strangers on earth...they were waiting for a better country, a heavenly country." (NCV)
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/10/2008 4:56:10 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10236
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From: Cow country, Upstate NY
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My husband is also clueless as to how he comes across to people, especially women. I truly believe he is clueless. He's just a super friendly person and will laugh and joke with anyone (right, Cindy?).
The solution we've come up with is that he listens to me when I tell him how he is coming across. He knows that he doesn't see things as I do, or other women do, so when I tell him he is not to so much as smile at a certain woman, he just listens. Granted, this is after going through a lot of junk together...and me not coming across in a way that makes him defensive, because I finally understand that he just doesn't GET IT!
As for being "nice", even in public...a little over a year ago, we had an "incident" where a neighbor was coming around too often and my husband didn't think anything of it. She started doing it as soon as she saw me leave, and I put my foot down. I was not polite to her and don't think I should have been. This woman knows what we have been through and yet still was trying to nose her way in. Did my husband encourage her? I think he did...but I do not think it was intentional. I am glad that I cut her completely off before it was a real problem. You don't always have to be nice, not when your marriage and family is at stake.
I will be praying for your conversation tonight, Hillary (is that one l or two?).
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/10/2008 9:35:05 PM
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VisitorinWaiting
Posts: 836
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(You did spell my name correctly...it has two "l"s.)
Well, it's 9:35, and still no conversation. Hubby went to visit his parents. They just moved, and they have HUGE (from what I've heard) roaches in the new place. Pest control is coming tomorrow, but hubby wanted to go over to see for himself... I really don't mind him visiting, especially since fil saw what happened on Sunday and told him about how wrong it was... So, I don't know if the conversation will happen tonight or will not. If he gets home late, I will likely just bring up one issue...and take it from there...
So, tonight at dinner...I was talking to my ds...the one with the behavior problems...he had hit me earlier in the day in front of sil because he was mad that he couldn't play in the kitchen while I was cooking. He also didn't want to share what he was playing with... So, I put him in the "Naughty Chair," and he hit me more and tried to bite me. He used to have these "outbursts" when he was like 1-2 years old, and we nipped them in the bud then...but they have come back now...so more work in that area. Anyway, I was talking to ds about how much I loved to see him smile and hear him laugh, and how it hurt my heart when he hit me and tried to bite me. Hubby put his fork down, looked at ds in the eye and said, "Why do you hurt mommy? I love your mommy. She is my best friend. I don't want you to hurt her anymore." I was about to cry. He had never told me that I was his best friend...I'd never heard him tell anyone that. My heart warmed, and I wanted to go over and hug him for hours... It was nice to hear.
_____________________________
Hebrews 11:13,16 "...They said they were like visitors and strangers on earth...they were waiting for a better country, a heavenly country." (NCV)
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/10/2008 10:16:47 PM
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Hislittleone
Posts: 605
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VIW, I'm so glad your husband said that to ds!!! Yay! I can just imagine how good that made you feel. Also, what Cindy and Donna said about men being clueless is true. Maybe he just doesn't realize how he's coming across to other people, especially women.
Praying for you this evening.
ETA: Even though he may not realize how he's coming across in certain situations there is still a very obvious problem with boundaries and lust. He knows that porn and calling out the neighbor's name is wrong. He probably knows that describing other women's "womanly attributes" and hanging out with the neighbor without you around aren't the best things to do either. Basically, if he doesn't want his parents to know about it then he knows it's wrong.
< Message edited by Hislittleone -- 6/10/2008 10:25:46 PM >
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/11/2008 9:08:54 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10236
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cow country, Upstate NY
Status: online
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How are you doing? Did you get a chance to talk about any of this?
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/11/2008 9:56:40 PM
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buckifn
Posts: 1624
Joined: 5/23/2006
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I dont think it is a good idea to call friends and involve them in your personal relationship problems.
Marriage is a covenant between you, your spouse, and God...not your friends.
I would be very upset if my wife did that. regardless of the issue,,,it's OUR issue not our friends...
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/11/2008 10:11:51 PM
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VisitorinWaiting
Posts: 836
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
I dont think it is a good idea to call friends and involve them in your personal relationship problems.
Marriage is a covenant between you, your spouse, and God...not your friends.
I would be very upset if my wife did that. regardless of the issue,,,it's OUR issue not our friends...
Huh?
_____________________________
Hebrews 11:13,16 "...They said they were like visitors and strangers on earth...they were waiting for a better country, a heavenly country." (NCV)
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/11/2008 10:14:57 PM
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VisitorinWaiting
Posts: 836
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I haven't got to talk to him. He's working for the next few days all of the hours that kiddies are sleeping...so, it must wait, yet again...... :(
I have a lot more weighing on my mind now...I feel like I'm going to scream. My mother had a blow up on me tonight...see post in Parenting... argh...
My head is spinning..........I wish I could sleep for a few days without anyone waking me for anything...
_____________________________
Hebrews 11:13,16 "...They said they were like visitors and strangers on earth...they were waiting for a better country, a heavenly country." (NCV)
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/11/2008 10:24:36 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10236
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cow country, Upstate NY
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: VisitorinWaiting
quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
I dont think it is a good idea to call friends and involve them in your personal relationship problems.
Marriage is a covenant between you, your spouse, and God...not your friends.
I would be very upset if my wife did that. regardless of the issue,,,it's OUR issue not our friends...
Huh?
I was wondering that too. 
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/12/2008 2:21:05 AM
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cindybode
Posts: 1565
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Northwest PA
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna
My husband is also clueless as to how he comes across to people, especially women. I truly believe he is clueless. He's just a super friendly person and will laugh and joke with anyone (right, Cindy?).
Yep. I fell in love with him the first time I met him.  Brian is a great guy, but yeah, sometimes very clueless. Most men seem to be when it comes to flirting. They honestly don't realize they're doing it, and they don't realize that a woman might hear something they didn't mean to say. Donna and Brian's agreement is exactly what needs to happen - the wife brings up her concerns, and the husband makes changes because he admits that his wife knows what she's talking about, and he's clueless.
Hillary, you can't keep putting off this talk. It's great that he wants to help his parents out, but I think it's time to say, "We really need to talk, and I'd like you to block out some time for us to do that. I have some serious concerns I need to discuss. This needs to be top priority."
I am very encouraged by what your husband said to your son. Sounds like the guy loves you.  He doesn't know what the heck he's doing or how he's supposed to walk that out, but he loves you.
_____________________________
If you lock in any creature, from rats to chickens to pigs to people, 10 to 30 or more in a box and force feed them you'll create little monsters. Confinement Education School Operations (CESOs) just don't compare to naturally pastured free-ranged kids.
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/12/2008 4:57:52 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1624
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Thank you Brandy..yes, that is what I was referring to, but did not have time to go back and find that quote.
Calling friends to get them on your side in a marital dispute is a very bad idea imo.
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/12/2008 7:48:32 AM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10236
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cow country, Upstate NY
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Brandy
This bothered me and I can only imagine that is what Buck is meaning.
quote:
ORIGINAL: VisitorinWaiting
I said, "Alright, let's go call our friends and ask them."
"Why? Did they say something?"
"No, but I'm sure they will have an opinion if we ask them. And, I'm sure they will agree with me."
You threatened to drag your friends in, when they hadn't said anything, to prove your point.
Don't involve friends. Ever. Never a good thing to pit one against the other.
I even hesitate to involve your FIL but it seems like he may be the only help that your husband takes seriously. Seems to be afraid of him.
Ahhhh...I missed that or forgot it somehow. I agree, not a good tactic.
However, that was a small part of this thread and to jump in and comment on that one small piece with no quote attached was confusing...
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/12/2008 9:05:07 PM
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VisitorinWaiting
Posts: 836
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Cindy...thank you for your comment saying that my husband loves me. I needed that reassurance from someone else. He has been doing a lot better with a lot of things lately...I don't think he's made me cry all week...since the incident at church on Sunday. So, things are going pretty good...we still have to talk, and I know that, but I think that the talk will be much easier now with things going the way that they have.
buckifn...thank you for explaining what you meant. I agree with you...it's not good to bring friends into this. I wouldn't have ACTUALLY called them, but hubby didn't know that, and it wasn't fair to say, none the less.
_____________________________
Hebrews 11:13,16 "...They said they were like visitors and strangers on earth...they were waiting for a better country, a heavenly country." (NCV)
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/17/2008 6:50:21 PM
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VisitorinWaiting
Posts: 836
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Here I am again... Not so bad right now...
We went to the resturant again today. He seems to want to go there every time we have friends down to visit ? Anyway, the decision was made without me present...he went out to meet friends and called me and told me to meet them there. So, I went along with it, as much as I hated it... Funny thing happened though...I got there later than everyone else...so I sat down, and started chatting with everyone. We had a WAITER, not a WAITRESS this time, and no women were coming to our table to talk to us...so that was nice. But one of the friends asked hubby why he liked this place so much, and I said, "'Cause the girls here like him so much." I was serious, and hubby laughed. Maybe this wasn't the thing to say in front of them, but little did I know, they had already seen it in action. The wife of the friend that asked the question said, "Yeah, we saw that...she said Hiiii .......... <insert hubby's name here>." I looked at hubby and said, "See." Maybe this will get him to realize that it's not just me being "silly" or "unreasonable" because someone else noticed too.
Things ARE going better though since his chat with his dad. I'm glad that situation at church happened...I didn't have to say a thing...just let "Dad" observe. There is still a lot to talk about though, but I think now I can put in such a way that it doesn't seem as accusatory.
_____________________________
Hebrews 11:13,16 "...They said they were like visitors and strangers on earth...they were waiting for a better country, a heavenly country." (NCV)
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/17/2008 7:18:22 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10236
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cow country, Upstate NY
Status: online
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Sometimes not being accusatory is best, sometimes there needs to be a big blow up confrontation. Since I'm not you and not in your life, I can't know what is best. But please don't let things continue as they have been. You and your children are worth more than that.
Still praying...
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/20/2008 8:31:12 PM
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VisitorinWaiting
Posts: 836
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A little more of a break through... Today, our friends that came to visit were leaving. The guy asked Mark if he'd ever had a certain type of food...I walked in just after the question was asked, and hubby looked at me and said that we didn't get such and such appetizer at that restuarnt the other day. I said, "Ah, that's too bad," with much sarcasm. I smiled... Then he said, "That's alright. I got them yesterday." The conversation ensued from there with our gal friend...she said, "They were being awful nice to you the other day." Hubby kept looking at me with this questioning look on his face. He said, "I only paid $4 for my food." I said, "I really don't care how much it costs. That isn't the issue." Then he said, "Well, don't be mistaking friendliness for flirting." I said, "It's not all about you. It's about what the girls do too." After that, we were talking a little more, and he looked at me and said, "If you would really feel more comfortable with me not going there, I will stop going there." I said, "That's exactly what I want you to do." He said, "Okay."
I thought it was great that he brought up the fact that he would stop going if it would please me...instead of waiting for me to say it. There is little more to say on that issue now, but there is still a little bit. There are other situations still left to talk about too. Our anniversary is Sunday...so hopefully, we will have some private time to talk about things...not that I want to put a damper on that day, but it's a good day to discuss "love" issues...
_____________________________
Hebrews 11:13,16 "...They said they were like visitors and strangers on earth...they were waiting for a better country, a heavenly country." (NCV)
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/23/2008 6:40:08 AM
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Annie64
Posts: 765
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Indianapolis, IN
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I've been lurking here, but haven't posted because I didn't have any advice to give. I still don't, but I'll be praying for you. I hope you had a really nice anniversary yesterday.
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On Christ the solid rock I stand
ALL other ground is sinking sand.
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/26/2008 10:17:16 AM
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VisitorinWaiting
Posts: 836
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Well, we had some of our talk last night, unexpectedly. We were lying in the bed talking about ways to save money, and we were talking about him taking his lunches with him instead of eating out. So, I said, "Well, I had your lunch packed today, but neither of us remembered it before you left for work." He said, "I know."
Me: "So, what did you have for lunch today?"
Him: "Something cheap." (with his smirk, which means, the resturant where I get a great discount that you don't want me to go to...)
Me: "I thought you said that you weren't going there anymore for me."
Him: "We didn't set that in stone."
Me: "How much more in stone does it need to be when you say that you won't go there if it will make me feel better, and I respond that I don't want you going there, and you say okay??"
Him: "Well, it only costed me $4.00 and something...less than $5."
Me: "I don't care about the cost, honey. And you can get a sub for $5."
Him: "I know, and I do sometimes, but I just wanted to go there today."
Me: "Did you even think about me while you were driving there? That I didn't want you to go there?"
Him: "Yeah, but I didn't think we had settled it."
Me: "I dont' see why you thought that. I think I made it clear."
We went on to talk about how the girls there treat him and how inappropriate it is knowing that he's a married man. He said that he knew what car that the girls drove and what the men drove because he's been there when they've pulled into the parking lot before and just saw what they were driving. He assured me that there is nothing to be jealous of and that I'm the only one that he's ever been intimate with...and I do believe him in that, but it's still not appropriate. The ladies there are obviously flirting with him, and he's accepting it all with a smile. At the end of the conversation, he said that he wouldn't go there anymore, and I told him that I didn't know if I believed him or not cause I'd heard it before, and then he went back.
Any ideas or suggestions about this issue particularly? What more can I say? do? I don't know how I will know if he goes there or not. After last night, he likely won't tell me if he goes there again... 
_____________________________
Hebrews 11:13,16 "...They said they were like visitors and strangers on earth...they were waiting for a better country, a heavenly country." (NCV)
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RE: Double Standard vent... - 6/26/2008 1:40:29 PM
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YZGUY
Posts: 263
Joined: 3/9/2008
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There is a desire in him that keeps pulling him back. Maybe it is the desire to be desired. This is a selfish desire, but it is one we all have. I guess my questions are, "Do you desire your husband? Do you flirt with him? Do you tell him he is sexy?" Perhaps this is something in your marriage that may be lacking. Perhaps asking him how he feels when he goes to that restaurant. These questions are not to say that he has the right to go there if he does not feel desired, but may give you some understanding and direction. Whether he feels desired by you or not, he should always respect you & love you & be 100% committed to you - but being desired certainly does help a relationship.
You won't know if he goes there or not, and I would not recommend that you question him about it (you'll end up being more like a parent than a lover).
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