|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/7/2008 1:45:36 PM
|
|
|
Love2BMommy
Posts: 11
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
|
My 3 year old attends children's church every Sunday morning. I like that because our church's CC don't just play with the kids, they tell stories from the Bible, and then show a puppet show about the story. Seth, my ds, can understand those stories a lot better than he can understand a pastor from the pulpit. Last Sunday he was actually able to tell me the story about Jericho, with me prompting him with questions. I think that's excellent!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/7/2008 3:14:07 PM
|
|
|
DenimDiva
Posts: 6076
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
Status: offline
|
Hi Love2BMommy and welcome to the community!
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/7/2008 4:28:14 PM
|
|
|
W.O.F.
Posts: 1674
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: an ignoble beginning
Status: offline
|
I am NOT against children's church...when they are run correctly. When they are a training tool to help teach children about the Lord and how to behave in church... what I am against is that children be REQUIRED by a church to go...or that they NEVER sit in worship at all with their parents....EVER...until they reach the age of 13.
I am not against nurseries...if they are run correctly and again IF THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED. They are often necessary...even for the best of behaved children.
I like the way our church in KS did Children's church...it was for those children who had had 6 months of Sunday school experience (which meant about 2 1/2 to 3 years of age) until they started kindergarten (5 or 6). They sat through singing and offering. After the offering....they lined up at the front of the sanctuary and were led to children's service. It also taught them how to quietly leave the sanctuary..and allowed a chance for visitors to know where children's church was and when...even if they came into service just a little late. It was not disruptive...it was part of the service.
I like the way our church a couple of years ago before we moved did children's church...it was NOT an all the time thing...but was, rather, a children's service that was offered when it was deemed more beneficial for the children to be in their own service.
The problem is that too many times Children's Church is not run properly and that too many churches require that the children not be in service.
It should always be the call of the parents where their children worship...and it should always be a good choice....(meaning a well run children's church program if a church chooses to do so...or at least a parent's room where a really disruptive child can be taken and dealt with where the sermon can still be heard by the parents...but the child cannot be heard by others)
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/7/2008 4:32:45 PM
|
|
|
zoebob
Posts: 8869
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: land of limbo
Status: online
|
Excellent post WOF. When my dad was a pastor, he never had it at our churches because he was against it.
Our church now does it in a similar way as your church in KS did except that it is for kids from 3-K. From birth till 3 they are (can be) in nursery and then from 3 till K they can go to jr church. In the summer we only offer it in the 2nd service because there aren't many kids in the 1st service and they can't get people to run it in the summer.
_____________________________
L-R: DD1, Ellies DS2, DD2, Ellies DS1
L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/7/2008 4:36:11 PM
|
|
|
creationtalk
Posts: 609
Joined: 6/9/2005
Status: offline
|
I took my son to services from birth. The church did not have children's ministry and my son would not stay in the nursery. So my 2yo was standing on my lap repeating every word the pastor said (not loudly enough to disturb others).
Now as he got older, it became harder and harder to have him in services because he became disruptive--would no longer stay still and got too loud.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/7/2008 6:28:27 PM
|
|
|
DenimDiva
Posts: 6076
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: W.O.F.
I am NOT against children's church...when they are run correctly. When they are a training tool to help teach children about the Lord and how to behave in church... what I am against is that children be REQUIRED by a church to go...or that they NEVER sit in worship at all with their parents....EVER...until they reach the age of 13.
I am not against nurseries...if they are run correctly and again IF THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED. They are often necessary...even for the best of behaved children.
I do not agree with a parent being forced to place their child in the nursery or any children's program. It should be parental choice, but parents should not be looked down on for their choice.
quote:
I like the way our church in KS did Children's church...it was for those children who had had 6 months of Sunday school experience (which meant about 2 1/2 to 3 years of age) until they started kindergarten (5 or 6). They sat through singing and offering. After the offering....they lined up at the front of the sanctuary and were led to children's service. It also taught them how to quietly leave the sanctuary..and allowed a chance for visitors to know where children's church was and when...even if they came into service just a little late. It was not disruptive...it was part of the service.
I like the way our church a couple of years ago before we moved did children's church...it was NOT an all the time thing...but was, rather, a children's service that was offered when it was deemed more beneficial for the children to be in their own service.
Ours was broken down into the babes who couldn't walk in one area, the ones who could walk in another area.
2's 3's and 4's had their own rooms and lessons and play times. I oversaw those areas and covered when volunteers couldn't make it...... which happened a lot!
My main area was 5 years through 5th grade. I generally had 2-3 high schoolers helping.
We met after communion. We left quietly.
We had prayer time.
We broke the children up according to maturity level.
We had our lessons, which were often along the lines of what the sermon was.
The less mature children stayed with mom and dad every 5th Sunday.
The ones who were medium of maturity stayed with mom and dad every 1st and 5th Sunday.
The most mature ones stayed with mom and dad every 1st, 3rd and 5th Sunday..... unless they couldn't handle it.
I had to make many apologies to parents because there was absolutely no children's church on the 5th Sunday- ever! Since there was a lack of volunteers, that was the only Sunday that I got to stay in the service for the two years I ran it.
I did have two adult women volunteers who were wonderful. They helped out a lot when the ones who were supposed to help with the 2-4 years olds would pull a "no show" on me.
One of their husband's would drive the church van to pick up children from unchurched families.
When I stepped down due to burn-out, they took over as co-leaders and kept things pretty much the same.
quote:
The problem is that too many times Children's Church is not run properly and that too many churches require that the children not be in service.
Very true. You can't take a volunteer just because it's a warm body. It has to be someone who has the children's best interest at heart.
quote:
It should always be the call of the parents where their children worship...and it should always be a good choice....(meaning a well run children's church program if a church chooses to do so...or at least a parent's room where a really disruptive child can be taken and dealt with where the sermon can still be heard by the parents...but the child cannot be heard by others)
And I agree, as long as we don't degrade any parent for doing what they feel is best for their family. I'm not saying that anyone in this thread has done that, but it has been done on these boards and IRL.
< Message edited by DenimDiva -- 6/7/2008 6:35:10 PM >
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/8/2008 12:33:17 AM
|
|
|
Ellie-Mae
Posts: 4270
Joined: 4/9/2005
From: The EMPIRE state!
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
quote:
such as what the Bible really teaches about homosexuality.
See, now I don't see that as inappropriate to children. They don't need to know the ins and outs of how homosexuality (or heterosexuality at certain ages) works but you don't need to discuss that in preaching. If there is anything in scripture that is so terrible that our kids can't be exposed to it then that can be a topic of discussion for adult Sunday school.
As a person who has read all of the first five books of the Bible, Psalms, Proverbs and other books of the Bible and passages with all of our kids around the dinner table... I also agree with Zoe here and it has never caused a problem with our kids. Instead it has made it easy for our kids to talk to us about some potentially difficult topics from a godly perspective.
_____________________________
Isaiah 40:29
He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
W2D1
292 more miles to go!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/8/2008 12:45:39 AM
|
|
|
Annie64
Posts: 765
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Indianapolis, IN
Status: offline
|
I hope I didn't come off as sounding like I was condemning or belittling anyone's choice of having their children in service with them. Sometimes, and for some children, that's the best choice. And the reality is that many churches can't or don't run good children's programs. My own opinion is that children who attend children's church, at least until about age 8-10, enjoy church more and are less likely to be the kids who grow up to say, "my parents made me go to church and I hated it, so now I won't go." I think children's programs meet real needs and do not exist simply to pander to or spoil children.
_____________________________
On Christ the solid rock I stand
ALL other ground is sinking sand.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/8/2008 4:35:14 AM
|
|
|
Ellie-Mae
Posts: 4270
Joined: 4/9/2005
From: The EMPIRE state!
Status: online
|
That mainly happens, I think, when going to church is just something they do and not a tool that helps develop our relationship with Christ and with each other.
Frankly, when my kids sat with us, we didn't allow them to have toys or books. That sat and snuggled with us, whispered questions, and enjoyed it. They were regular chatter boxes on the way home from church... before they were ever school aged. They never hated or felt like they were made to go to church. They really missed it when we didn't go. It was a family thing that they loved to be a part of and doing with us.
I am not saying that this would be the best decision for everyone. I have been to churches that were more likely to breed bad habits than good ones. we have been to churches with no children's programs. We have been to churches that treated small children like they were stupid and thought that playing and watching Veggie-tales was goo enough. We have also been to churches where they have great children's programs that we have used. We have one child that we pulled out of SS because even though it was a nice program, it wasn't for him. He still doesn't attend SS with his grade until this last semester when they integrated them with the adults.
What is best for each church, Family, and child is not going to be the same across the board. It is about finding what is best and going with it.
< Message edited by Ellie-Mae -- 6/8/2008 8:49:32 AM >
_____________________________
Isaiah 40:29
He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
W2D1
292 more miles to go!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/8/2008 3:26:44 PM
|
|
|
lexie
Posts: 3090
Joined: 6/27/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
|
Our church is set up that both adult and kid's bible class is at 10 am and then service starts at 11 am where the entire family is. It works for our small church and with the number of kids.
However, this is where proper parenting also comes in. We have three families with children. One family, the children are very well behaved, the kids (11 and 8) always have their Bibles and are following along, the 8 year old even takes notes sometimes.
The other family, has four children (13, 10, 8 and 7). At least one of the kids is asleep during service every week. The 8 and 7 year old are always talking and all four of them are always getting up and disrupting the service to go use the washroom (even though they are told to use it during break). The parents don't say a word and it ends up being other people in the church telling the kids to sit down, wake up, be quiet or that they can't leave, and it is disrupting our church service and body.
We're the third family. Today was Dd's 18 month birthday and we decided that she has now entered "church training." Before we would let her roam and play, now she has her own chair, with books to read and paper to draw and a small tambourine for song service. One 8 year old girl has agreed to take her to the children's bible class and keep her sitting in her seat (to the best of her ability!). Dh and I both want her to get started from a very young age to behave properly in church so that it becomes something natural for her.
Kathryn - if you don't mind sharing, what did you decide?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/8/2008 11:43:28 PM
|
|
|
DenimDiva
Posts: 6076
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
Status: offline
|
Why would someone care to tell the other family's child to wake-up?
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/9/2008 12:28:42 AM
|
|
|
reach
Posts: 1221
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
My church has a great children's church program on Sun AM & PM and Wed PM.
When I have kids I will probably keep my kid with me during the Sun PM service to have them learn how to be in church. I do think that they need a class that is appropriate for them, but the children's program goes up to 6th grade and I think they can sit in church. That is what I did with my nephew. From a toddler I brought stuff for my nephew to do. So he would right or read or color, but learn to sit for a long period of time. I would also sit in the back of the church when he was really small, but he really did not move around much. He was a very easy boy.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/9/2008 7:31:40 AM
|
|
|
lexie
Posts: 3090
Joined: 6/27/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
|
quote:
Why would someone care to tell the other family's child to wake-up?
A few reasons.
1 - this is church. It is disrespectful for the kids to be asleep, and if the parents aren't going to teach their children proper behaviour in church, then someone should.
2 - we're a very small church, we notice when someone is asleep. When we have guests, it looks pretty poor on us if we allow kids to sleep through it.
3 - there is no reason for them to be asleep. They know church is on Sunday mornings, they should go to their bed at a proper time, and it's not like they have to wake up at 6am. Church is at a very reasonable time.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/9/2008 7:56:27 AM
|
|
|
Ellie-Mae
Posts: 4270
Joined: 4/9/2005
From: The EMPIRE state!
Status: online
|
Do the parents WANT other people waking up their kid? How old is the kid? I laying over several seats when he sleeps?
_____________________________
Isaiah 40:29
He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
W2D1
292 more miles to go!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/9/2008 8:19:24 AM
|
|
|
lexie
Posts: 3090
Joined: 6/27/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
|
quote:
Do the parents WANT other people waking up their kid?
Honestly, yes. Here's the problem. It's the pastors kids. The wife won't wake them up (we don't know why, sometimes she's not there) and the pastor doesn't want to have yell at his kids from up front (which he has done before and is completely disruptive to church service).
quote:
How old is the kid?
13 and 10.
quote:
I laying over several seats when he sleeps?
Yes. One has even fallen over out of his seat and landed smack on his forehead.
I know everyone is probably thinking that the other people in the church have no business waking up the kids, which I understand. But our church is extremely small, we're a very tight group, and in our opinion a 13 year old should not be sleeping in church. I also don't think that the pastor and his wife are setting a good example by allowing their children to sleep in church.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/9/2008 8:45:02 AM
|
|
|
HomeSpunLady
Posts: 1173
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Lovely Pennsylvania!
Status: offline
|
I've decided to keep Nadia in church from now on. I'll take her with me when I go to nursery to do my sunday, but I think she's old enough and I want her to learn at some point. And I think I am ready to teach her. I'd rather do it now, with just her, than when I have a babe in arms and a toddler.
_____________________________
Kathryn
Just Me
Second bun in the oven
37 weeks - Due Sept 24
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/9/2008 10:05:59 AM
|
|
|
Ellie-Mae
Posts: 4270
Joined: 4/9/2005
From: The EMPIRE state!
Status: online
|
Lexi, from what you have said, It makes much more sense.
_____________________________
Isaiah 40:29
He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
W2D1
292 more miles to go!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/9/2008 11:03:27 AM
|
|
|
justjennhere
Posts: 110
Joined: 10/10/2006
Status: offline
|
I kept my oldest in the service with me until my second was born. (She was twelve months old.) Because my husband is the pastor, I had no help in the pew and felt that I had to send her to the nursery so that I could care for my youngest. At this point, the youngest is almost one and the oldest is almost two. They're both still in the nursery. I try once every month to bring my oldest into the service, especially for special presentations or music programs, to see how ready she is to sit and worship with the rest of the church. She's not ready for it yet... and that's okay! (She can't stop herself from yelling, "PAPA!" at the top of her lungs every time my husband stands up to preach.... and several times throughout his sermon. Which is distracting enough to warrant taking her out of the service!) I'm hesitant to bring toys and things for her to occupy herself with in the pew because I want every moment she sits in the pew to be focused on God and His Word. If she's too small to do that now, I'll wait until she's old enough. I don't want her to confuse church time with play time.
My plan (which might/possibly change based on her maturity and needs) is to transition her to the church service when she's three. I'm going to make a huge deal out of how exciting it is for her to get to go to big church, how wonderful it is to worship with the adults, etc. I'm sure we'll still have some rough moments, but at that age, I think she can be expected to start learning how to participate.
A GREAT book on this is "Parenting in the Pew" by Robbie Castleman. She gives ideas on how to teach your children to worship with you in the adult service, and because she's a pastor's wife, she takes into consideration those moms who are solo in the pew with their little ones. I plan to put her ideas into practice as soon as mine are just a little older.
< Message edited by justjennhere -- 6/9/2008 11:12:07 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/9/2008 1:11:22 PM
|
|
|
DenimDiva
Posts: 6076
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
Status: offline
|
I would just let them sleep. IMO, that is their parent's issue to deal with.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/9/2008 1:36:28 PM
|
|
|
SweetLittleErin
Posts: 3442
Joined: 7/20/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
quote:
I'm hesitant to bring toys and things for her to occupy herself with in the pew because I want every moment she sits in the pew to be focused on God and His Word.
What about childrens books that focus on God? We're using that right now. During song service, Dd likes to sing and clap, but when it comes to sermon time we give her bible-based story books when we all take out our Bibles.
A couple of parents/grandparents in our church who keep their kids in church, bring Bible story books an/or Bible themed coloring sheets. I personally think its a stretch to expect little ones to be perfectly still during a sermon, sometimes its hard for ME to just sit and listen, I have to doodle or something. I've know of older kids' parents (mine did this) who had them take notes. Nothing too detailed but it made them listen and also kept them "busy." For our children, I plan to have some quiet toys(Bible story books, Bible Coloring sheets, or just quiet toys), because I have noticed from working with kids that even when they may be playing quietly, they ARE listening.
_____________________________
~Erin~
Mommy to Isaac, born 7/29, 12 weeks early.
<----My little Superman
A Glimpse Of Pink
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/9/2008 1:56:53 PM
|
|
|
peculiar_lady2
Posts: 11325
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: Between Hither and Yon
Status: offline
|
quote:
I'm hesitant to bring toys and things for her to occupy herself with in the pew because I want every moment she sits in the pew to be focused on God and His Word.
I (personally for us) don't see a problem with the kids having something to occupy them if it keeps them quiet while they listen. The average attention span of a child is their age in minutes, so I think it is asking too much of a child to have to sit perfectly still, listening to a (sometimes even for me) "boring" sermon that they will not really understand, with nothing to do with their hands...just so they can be "focusing on God". I think that puts a very negative spin mentally on God....that it is boring to learn about God, when in reality it isn't, in the proper setting and for the right age appropriateness. We do like (I prefer actually) to keep our kids with us, but we don't expect more out of them then their age and mental ability can give.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When to include children in church? - 6/9/2008 3:12:44 PM
|
|
|
justjennhere
Posts: 110
Joined: 10/10/2006
Status: offline
|
I'll admit that I may be a bit naive about how long a child can sit through a service and actually pay attention (as I have not yet walked that road with my own children), but if my two year old can sit still and watch Elmo for an hour... a twenty minute sermon shouldn't be such a stretch, right? (And if it is, what is she learning? That what Elmo says is more important than what the word of God taught from the pulpit says?)
I won't have a problem with my girls taking notes and looking at their Bible storybooks. I think my hesitancy has to do with parents who bring tons of toys that distract children from the service. I've seen children close to preteen age who still "must" have things to distract them during church. What lesson are we teaching our children about the preaching and studying of God's Word when we let them zone out with something else? I think we're certainly telling them, at least to some degree, that they are incapable of taking part in the service. We, as parents, can begin teaching even preschool children how to worship, how to take part in the service, and how to be a part of a fellowship of believers.
Again, I have a lot to learn when it comes to this because I'm not there yet with my kids. But ideally, this is what I'm going to strive for. I think it gives them a proper view of worship and their ability to know God better through it and to be contributing members of the body of Christ.
My husband grew up in a church that had a "Pastor's Pals" program, where kids had a book full of activity sheets, coloring sheets, sermon outlines (directed at their reading and comprehension level) that helped keep their interest throughout the sermon and the service. Each Pastor's pal kept up with his/her book for a year, and at the end of it all, they had an awards ceremony for those who had kept up with the work, which involved being present at worship, listening, and taking part where they could. I'm probably going to get stoned for this  , but I think this is a more desirable alternative than children's church. The corporate body, even the little ones, should worship together, not apart.
Edited to add -- My husband has given the kids different challenges on different Sundays, to help them listen. Like, one week, he had them keep total of every time he said the name "David," when the story was about David, or another week when he asked them to listen to the sermon and tell him as they left the church what the story was about. Four year old children were able to do both of these things -- we were amazed by their answers and their memories! Again, I have to recommend the book I mentioned in my first post. It will totally transform the way you see your parenting role on Sunday morning.
< Message edited by justjennhere -- 6/9/2008 3:22:40 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
(While I would never actually do it, it's best to keep them thinking I would)
" ~Cindybode