RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Conservatives
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/10/2008 12:05:07 PM
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P31W
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quote:
you have a heck of a lot more in common with your neighbor no matter what his or her beliefs than your high up official or the CEO of your company
You are completely off base with this one.
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/10/2008 12:17:32 PM
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ElmerFishpaw
Posts: 140
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Well if you and the Execs at your company and the higher ups in government are good friends and share the same lifestyle, then I guess I'm wrong......in your case only.
quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
you have a heck of a lot more in common with your neighbor no matter what his or her beliefs than your high up official or the CEO of your company
You are completely off base with this one.
_____________________________
"Aurora Borealis is Latin for flying saucer headlights"
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/10/2008 12:30:03 PM
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P31W
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quote:
.in your case only.
WRONG again
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/10/2008 12:37:01 PM
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ElmerFishpaw
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fine, wrong whatever
quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
.in your case only.
WRONG again
_____________________________
"Aurora Borealis is Latin for flying saucer headlights"
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/10/2008 12:44:34 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2531
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quote:
Just remember, you have a heck of a lot more in common with your neighbor no matter what his or her beliefs than your high up official or the CEO of your company
Another example of class envy.
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/10/2008 12:56:04 PM
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ElmerFishpaw
Posts: 140
Joined: 7/18/2007
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Why on earth would I envy those in power? "Want nothing and you'll have everything" is what I go by.
Success in not, at least to me, measured in wealth or power. Success is measured in how independent you are from others. Those in power would have no power or wealth if us "common folk" didn't vote for them or buy their product. They need us more than we need them. Who do they call when the plumbing goes out? The car needs to be serviced? I've seen what some of them can do, and I could care less about interacting with any of them. Put it this way, If I got invited to spend the night at Bush's white house and sleep in the Lincoln bedroom, I couldn't be bothered. "class envy" there's a laugh!
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
Just remember, you have a heck of a lot more in common with your neighbor no matter what his or her beliefs than your high up official or the CEO of your company
Another example of class envy.
_____________________________
"Aurora Borealis is Latin for flying saucer headlights"
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/10/2008 3:29:25 PM
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jazzact13
Posts: 547
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quote:
Gee, a right wing site plugs a book by a conservative writer who slams liberals . . . will wonders never cease.
Who cares?
Well, since I linked to the site, one would guess that I care. And since this topic now has several entries, I would guess others do.
And since you gave a comment here, I would guess that you do, too.
_____________________________
there is no justice in the rhetoric of class hatred
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/10/2008 4:52:53 PM
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ladyingrace1979
Posts: 233
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 Neither one is perfect, and I can point out the flaws of both. Lets look at what selfless conservatives have braught our country. (THE USA)
$4 pluus per mgallon gass, Enron, violations of the contsitution, The WAR secret milatary prisons, detention without civil rights, or charges and the billions of $$$ wasted that should have been spent here, cuts in education, insurince premiumes through the roof, tax cut to componies that take our jobs to forigen countries more mergers of comunication and broadcast componies than ever, meaning fewer choices for consumers. Have any of you tried a tech support for any compony, AT&T is a good example. (Answered in India) Yes the liberals gave us Roe V Wade and the loook to the government for everything, but their intent is to take care of people, not to enrich Corporate America, and their friends. 
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/10/2008 9:22:02 PM
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SonInMe1
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I don't want to be taken care of. That...is not life. That is slavery.
What is freedom? The God given right to fail on our own abilities. Yes, there are imperfections but trying to manage our imperfections through fear...which is core to all socialist beliefs...is not the answer.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/10/2008 9:34:10 PM
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ElmerFishpaw
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I take it You'll forfeit Social Security when you retire, let your kids work in factories without safety laws, or when your home is flooded or has some natural disaster, you won't accept any government help at all.
And I should stop typing, as this thread is getting way off topic!!
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
I don't want to be taken care of. That...is not life. That is slavery.
What is freedom? The God given right to fail on our own abilities. Yes, there are imperfections but trying to manage our imperfections through fear...which is core to all socialist beliefs...is not the answer.
_____________________________
"Aurora Borealis is Latin for flying saucer headlights"
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/10/2008 9:48:07 PM
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HisFish
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quote:
I take it You'll forfeit Social Security when you retire
By the time i retire there will be no social security to forfeit.
quote:
when your home is flooded or has some natural disaster, you won't accept any government help at all.
Help in a time of disaster is one thing, a cradle to grave attachment to a government nipple is quite another.
< Message edited by HisFish -- 6/10/2008 9:59:05 PM >
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/10/2008 10:05:58 PM
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Boofhead
Posts: 63
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From: Alice Springs, Northern Territory of Australia
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ElmerFishpaw
Why on earth would I envy those in power? "Want nothing and you'll have everything" is what I go by.
Success in not, at least to me, measured in wealth or power. Success is measured in how independent you are from others. Those in power would have no power or wealth if us "common folk" didn't vote for them or buy their product. They need us more than we need them. Who do they call when the plumbing goes out? The car needs to be serviced? I've seen what some of them can do, and I could care less about interacting with any of them. Put it this way, If I got invited to spend the night at Bush's white house and sleep in the Lincoln bedroom, I couldn't be bothered. "class envy" there's a laugh!
To me this is just plain old prejudice of a class which you have made up in your own mind. This is ultimately the stupidity in the mentality of socialism. To a socialist, there is always an oppressor and there is always the oppressed. In order to achieve social justice, first the oppressed need to distinguish their oppressors and then secondly take control over their oppressors. When the oppressed take power from the oppressors they will only lead to social reversal whereby the oppressed soon become the oppressors and the oppressors become the oppressed. It is for this fundamental reason that socialism never works and will either lead to totalitarianism or pure anarchy if it is pushed far enough. For this matter, socialism on a philosophical sense is just purely meaningless.
_____________________________
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
John 3:16
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/10/2008 10:10:34 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2531
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
or when your home is flooded or has some natural disaster, you won't accept any government help at all.
Where in the Constitution does it say the Government needs to help! When you were young and your skull was full of mush you were indoctrinated by our "edukashunal" system about be beloved Nanny State.
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/11/2008 6:59:43 AM
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ElmerFishpaw
Posts: 140
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I'm with you on Social Security. I don't count on it either.
I think corporations are the biggest "nipple attachers" of all....look how much tax money is given to keep companies afloat due to poor management. Oh yes, need to pay the execs the big bucks to keep "talent" while the company teeters on the edge of destruction.
quote:
ORIGINAL: HisFish
quote:
I take it You'll forfeit Social Security when you retire
By the time i retire there will be no social security to forfeit.
quote:
when your home is flooded or has some natural disaster, you won't accept any government help at all.
Help in a time of disaster is one thing, a cradle to grave attachment to a government nipple is quite another.
_____________________________
"Aurora Borealis is Latin for flying saucer headlights"
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/11/2008 7:02:35 AM
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ElmerFishpaw
Posts: 140
Joined: 7/18/2007
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Glad to know you wouldn't take the help, I commend you. BTW....The "k's" in the posts in words to show effect really are bush league. Yeah, I'm just a dumb zombie...LOL
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
or when your home is flooded or has some natural disaster, you won't accept any government help at all.
Where in the Constitution does it say the Government needs to help! When you were young and your skull was full of mush you were indoctrinated by our "edukashunal" system about be beloved Nanny State.
_____________________________
"Aurora Borealis is Latin for flying saucer headlights"
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/11/2008 7:17:45 AM
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ElmerFishpaw
Posts: 140
Joined: 7/18/2007
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Christianity at least the kind in the USA thrives on having an oppressor. Islam, Gays, Liberals, etc.
Oooohhhh.....everyone is after us as Christians....I think the thrust of my posts is, that we are
all in this world together. This really applies to race I guess, but My Dad worked at a good blue collar job (mostly gone nowadays to cheap labor ..oops....) and my Dad had black friends in a place and time where
this wasn't done too much except superficially, later in life I asked him why he bucked the trend and he said "Well, they were good people, and besides I had a heck of a lot more in common with them, than the people others tried to suck up to" .... more or less verbatim there.
I'll tell you too, I worked part time at a hotel and resort...yeah lefty me working hard...unlike the lazy jerks in Sweden etc
I've seen pasty tubby 50 somethings mostly act like spoiled teenage girls. No, I no way have "envy".
"Want nothing and you'll have everything"
Just the way I believe...it makes no difference to me whether people agree or not. This is a forum where I present my beliefs and opinions. The whole "liberal" vs. "conservative thing is pretty intense.....not as intense as the "Nikon vs. Canon" debates over on some photography forums I visit though....:<)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Boofhead
quote:
ORIGINAL: ElmerFishpaw
Why on earth would I envy those in power? "Want nothing and you'll have everything" is what I go by.
Success in not, at least to me, measured in wealth or power. Success is measured in how independent you are from others. Those in power would have no power or wealth if us "common folk" didn't vote for them or buy their product. They need us more than we need them. Who do they call when the plumbing goes out? The car needs to be serviced? I've seen what some of them can do, and I could care less about interacting with any of them. Put it this way, If I got invited to spend the night at Bush's white house and sleep in the Lincoln bedroom, I couldn't be bothered. "class envy" there's a laugh!
To me this is just plain old prejudice of a class which you have made up in your own mind. This is ultimately the stupidity in the mentality of socialism. To a socialist, there is always an oppressor and there is always the oppressed. In order to achieve social justice, first the oppressed need to distinguish their oppressors and then secondly take control over their oppressors. When the oppressed take power from the oppressors they will only lead to social reversal whereby the oppressed soon become the oppressors and the oppressors become the oppressed. It is for this fundamental reason that socialism never works and will either lead to totalitarianism or pure anarchy if it is pushed far enough. For this matter, socialism on a philosophical sense is just purely meaningless.
_____________________________
"Aurora Borealis is Latin for flying saucer headlights"
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/11/2008 7:52:55 AM
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jazzact13
Posts: 547
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
Christianity at least the kind in the USA thrives on having an oppressor.
Wrong.
quote:
Islam, Gays, Liberals, etc.
Oooohhhh.....everyone is after us as Christians
And didn't Jesus say that the world would persecute us?
quote:
I think the thrust of my posts is, that we are all in this world together.
Ok, every human being who is at the present time alive is also on this planet. Which truth doesn't exactly force to mind-blowing leaps of logic about "the oneness of humanity" or "our interconnectedness with the earth" or any other kind new-agey drivel.
_____________________________
there is no justice in the rhetoric of class hatred
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/11/2008 10:29:17 AM
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P31W
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quote:
Those in power would have no power or wealth if us "common folk" didn't vote for them or buy their product. They need us more than we need them. Who do they call when the plumbing goes out? The car needs to be serviced?
I cannot name for you the number of wealthy people I know who are mechanics and plumbers. I guess they "wanted" something so they went after it. Aim at nothing and you will hit it every time.
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I take it You'll forfeit Social Security when you retire, let your kids work in factories without safety laws, or when your home is flooded or has some natural disaster, you won't accept any government help at all.
Are you even an American citizen or pay into our US social security system?
Social Security is a type of insurance in that if you pay nothing in you will get nothing out. I plan to get social security if it's still avaliable when I retire. Why not? I "paid" for it.
My son is self employed. If he chooses to work for a company and is injured on the job he is free to sue them.
When a flood, natural disaster hits my home then I plan to pay for the repairs myself. That is one of the reasons I have both savings and insurance. I don't look for "others" to pay for my problems in life EVEN IF I did nothing to bring it on myself.
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Christianity at least the kind in the USA thrives on having an oppressor.
I don't think you have a clue about what Christanity is and is not.
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Islam, Gays, Liberals, etc.
Oooohhhh.....everyone is after us as Christians
Jesus said they would hate us because they hated Him first. When the world begins to "love" us Christians it's time for us Christians to worry.
quote:
"Want nothing and you'll have everything"
Aim for nothing and you will hit it every time. Yes you evny others because they want "something" more than nothing.
< Message edited by P31W -- 6/11/2008 10:38:29 AM >
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Pot calls Kettle Black. - 6/11/2008 12:00:22 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1672
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jazzact13
Wrong.
Could you expand on this defense beyond one word? I think he has a great point about how many non-evangelicals see evangelicalism, to some extent. If Evangelicalism means checking your brain at the door and accepting whatever your pastor says, then we have a serious problem.
I don't think this is necessarily the case, but I also don't go to a church that tells me that I'm not a Christian if I don't vote against X Y or Z.
quote:
And didn't Jesus say that the world would persecute us?
Yes, but Christians aren't being crucified upside down in the Circus Maximus in the US right now.
quote:
Ok, every human being who is at the present time alive is also on this planet. Which truth doesn't exactly force to mind-blowing leaps of logic about "the oneness of humanity" or "our interconnectedness with the earth" or any other kind new-agey drivel.
Well, Christianity does show that there is one human condition that every human is born with (Rom 5:12-13). So in some sense, conservatives judging liberals because they are selfish seems sorta like the pot calling the kettle black.
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 6/11/2008 12:07:24 PM >
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/11/2008 12:14:16 PM
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ljmac
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ladyingrace1979
The focus should not be liberal VS conservative but should look at the intent of the heart. Exstreem Liberals want to have no standard or a very humanistic one, they intend to help people but do not see personal responcabilitys. And yes they are on the wrong side on abortion and many other issues.
However Extreem conservatives see no responsability for their fellow man, and offten put $$ as the bottem line to every thing.
Jesus told therich man to sell every thing he had and give it to the poor not because his possesion were wrong, but his attitude towrs them were missplaced. He valued them more than his relationship with God, and other people. Not all conservatives are like this, but it seems that the TAX CUT at all cost group want, Law and order, a strong milatary, good infrastructure and all the perks of americian citasinship for free. Question how do they expect the country to ru on no taxes. By the way our Conservative supposed Christian president is the only one stuupid enough to cut taxes while we are at war.
Oh I forgot MISSION ACCOMPLISGED! 
Can you give an example of an "...extreem conservatives (who) see no responsability for their fellow man..."
Give me one example of someone who advocates "no taxes?" I don't think you can.
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/11/2008 1:18:37 PM
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P31W
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I think alot of people are posting here without knowing anything about the book or how the data was collected.
It's not about personal opinion concering others or one group judging another.
The book deals with concrete actions that we can measure.
It's about how our "beliefs" effect our actions and our actions help dictate our results or outcome.
Example:
According to income tax reviews those who profess to be liberals give less to chairty than do those who profess to be conservatives?
Why?
Is it because liberals believe it's the government's responsiblity to cure the ills of society and conservatives believe it's "their own" responsibility?
____________
The same is true of time given to volunteer at helping agencies? Why do conservatives donate more of their time?
What about blood donation? Why do those who profess to be conservatives outgive those who profess to be liberals?
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The author contends that the reason for these "ACTION" differances is due to our core belief system.
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I don't have the book with me but when I return I willl state what the book has to say about our work ethic, hugging our children, caring for those who cannot care for themselves and so on.....
< Message edited by P31W -- 6/11/2008 1:41:05 PM >
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RE: Peter Schweizer: Liberals Are More Selfish Than Con... - 6/11/2008 1:41:37 PM
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P31W
Posts: 2233
Joined: 6/13/2005
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This is from Amazon.com concerning the book Makers and Takers
In Makers and Takers you will discover why:
* Seventy-one percent of conservatives say you have an obligation to care for a seriously injured spouse or parent versus less than half (46 percent) of liberals.
* Conservatives have a better work ethic and are much less likely to call in sick than their liberal counterparts.
* Liberals are 2½ times more likely to be resentful of others’ success and 50 percent more likely to be jealous of other people’s good luck.
* Liberals are 2 times more likely to say it is okay to cheat the government out of welfare money you don’t deserve.
* Conservatives are more likely than liberals to hug their children and “significantly more likely” to display positive nurturing emotions.
* Liberals are less trusting of family members and much less likely to stay in touch with their parents.
* Do you get satisfaction from putting someone else’s happiness ahead of your own? Fifty-five percent of conservatives said yes versus only 20 percent of liberals.
* Rush Limbaugh, Ronald Reagan, Bill O’Reilly and Dick Cheney have given large sums of money to people in need, while Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Michael Moore, and Al Gore have not.
* Those who are “very liberal” are 3 times more likely than conservatives to throw things when they get angry.
The American left prides itself on being superior to conservatives: more generous, less materialistic, more tolerant, more intellectual, and more selfless. For years scholars have constructed—and the media has pushed—elaborate theories designed to demonstrate that conservatives suffer from a host of personality defects and character flaws. According to these supposedly unbiased studies, conservatives are mean-spirited, greedy, selfish malcontents with authoritarian tendencies. Far from the belief of a few cranks, prominent liberals from John Kenneth Galbraith to Hillary Clinton have succumbed to these prejudices. But what do the facts show?
Peter Schweizer has dug deep—through tax documents, scholarly data, primary opinion research surveys, and private records—and has discovered that these claims are a myth. Indeed, he shows that many of these claims actually apply more to liberals than conservatives. Much as he did in his bestseller Do as I Say (Not as I Do), he brings to light never-before-revealed facts that will upset conventional wisdom.
Conservatives such as Ronald Reagan and Robert Bork have long argued that liberal policies promote social decay. Schweizer, using the latest data and research, exposes how, in general:
* Liberals are more self-centered than conservatives.
* Conservatives are more generous and charitable than liberals.
* Liberals are more envious and less hardworking than conservatives.
* Conservatives value truth more than liberals, and are less prone to cheating and lying.
* Liberals are more angry than conservatives.
* Conservatives are actually more knowledgeable than liberals.
* Liberals are more dissatisfied and unhappy than conservatives.
Schweizer argues that the failure lies in modern liberal ideas, which foster a self-centered, “if it feels good do it” attitude that leads liberals to outsource their responsibilities to the government and focus instead on themselves and their own desires.
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