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RE: Question About Healing - 6/19/2008 8:06:42 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2004
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Miril
I disagree, all that is needed is Faith and a Pure Heart. Problem is that most people do not have a pure heart.
A pure heart is not about going to church every Sunday, reading scripture everyday and hanging out in a Christian forum.
It is about following God's Word when no one is looking . What people always forget is that God is ALWAYS looking, and he knows.
Psalm 73:1 (NIV)
Surely God is good to Israel, to those who are pure in heart.
I do those things and have suffered from anxiety disorders and bi-polar disorder for a long time.
. . . and I have watched people who fall back into sin again and again miraculously healed.
Your statements are false.
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/19/2008 8:12:28 PM
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earthless
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Pure heart? I guess the Apostle Paul didn't have a "pure" heart.
NOWHERE in Scripture do we find the promise that all born-again believers living today would be free of physical sickness, pain, affliction.
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/19/2008 8:20:22 PM
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wintery
Posts: 1328
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tomb
Then we will see if what I am saying is nonsense or not.
tomb awaits
Tell that at your church's next prayer time. If God doesn't answer any prayer, why pray for the sick?
Yes the Gospel was confirmed and I doubt anyone will have a gift of miracles or perhaps even a gift of healing, but let's not confuse that with corporate prayer or even individual prayer being answered by God. It does happen and you probably know I don't mind questioning and denouncing what I think are false reports, but God is still God.
I could make a different deal with you. I can show you a man who can walk and talk miraculously after a doctor removed the infected half of his brain---documented. The son of a local businessman I've known for twenty years received this miraculous recovery as his church prayed for him while he was in surgery. Half his brain was removed...no ifs ands or maybes.
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/19/2008 8:22:26 PM
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earthless
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Yes, we do have the complete Word of God. Yes, we have false teachers and charlatans out there making merchandise of men by claiming they can heal..
But God still does heal today and God still does do miracles when He wills and chooses to.
Seems like he is confusing two different things and in doing so making God a liar.
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/19/2008 8:23:22 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1903
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quote:
ORIGINAL: trixie123
I'm having a bit of a hard time w/ something. If Jesus says if one of you is sick pray for them and they will be healed. Obviously this doesnt always work. Why would he say it if it weren't true? What did he mean?
Trixie:
The first thing to clearly understand is that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Great Physician. He healed absolutely everyone who came to Him for healing. Also, we find that all those who came to the apostles for healing were healed after Pentecost. These were all signs and wonders, or miracles to authenticate that Jesus was the Son of God, and the Gospel was of Divine origin, and the apostles were messengers of God.
However, the instructions in James 5:14-16 are not regarding signs and wonders but Divine healing through the prayer of faith offered by the the elders of the church. If this does not always result in healing, it could either be because of lack of faith on the part of one or many, or lack of confession of sins on the part of the one afflicted, since the forgiveness of sins is joined to the physical healing in these verses.
God does allow His saints to be afflicted in many ways (including disease and sickness) for testing their faith and giving them an opportunity to develop patience. Job was severely afflicted and we can expect afflictions also. However, this is not a reason to avoid praying in faith for healing. We should pray for healing for ourselves and others, and then leave it with the Lord. He may or may not heal as he chooses.
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/19/2008 8:25:27 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5397
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
ORIGINAL: trixie123
I'm having a bit of a hard time w/ something. If Jesus says if one of you is sick pray for them and they will be healed. Obviously this doesnt always work. Why would he say it if it weren't true? What did he mean?
Trixie:
The first thing to clearly understand is that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Great Physician. He healed absolutely everyone who came to Him for healing. Also, we find that all those who came to the apostles for healing were healed after Pentecost. These were all signs and wonders, or miracles to authenticate that Jesus was the Son of God, and the Gospel was of Divine origin, and the apostles were messengers of God.
Exactly - Jesus was speaking to His disciple, to those in that immediate context, and His promise to them.. His claim was 100% fulfilled.
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/19/2008 8:38:59 PM
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my quivers full
Posts: 114
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Basing our theology on our experiences or the testimony of others is a fault many of us walk in. Gods word is the lamp unto our feet and the light unto our path. If what we experience doesn't line up with Gods word, we need to, to put it bluntly, be in Gods face about it. There could be many reasons why people aren't healed when we pray for them. The fault doesn't lie with God or His word. We judge ourselves as having faith, or being right having done nothing wrong, yet is God convinced? He sees our hearts, He knows what's there. I do not have the ability to judge why a person I pray for is healed and the next not. Gods word is very clear it is His will to heal, yet not all receive. This doesn't change God's desire. If I'm praying for a healing and that person doesn't get healed, I have the ability to ask God why and expect Him to answer.
I received a healing once, then by the confession of my own mouth, I allowed the sickness back. I repented and was prayed for a second time and again was healed. The scriptures say life and death are in the power of the tongue. I learned a lesson from that. When we minister healing, do we hope God will work, or do we expect it? When we issue a command for the sickness to be gone, do we expect our command to be obeyed? Can we flow in God's authority here on Earth, if we refuse to submit to the authorities He has placed in our lives? The Roman centurian recognized that Jesus was able to do the works He did because He was a man under authority. The centurian knew what being under authority meant. We claim Jesus as Lord and then do what we want. Who really is Lord? Who's commandments do we obey?
God is good and all He does is good. Jesus said we should pray that God's will would be done here on Earth just as it is in Heaven. There are no sick people in Heaven. His will can be accomplished when we submit to Him. Lay down our lives, take up our cross and follow Him. If we don't we can't be His disciples.
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/19/2008 8:41:35 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5397
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my quivers full,
We cannot speak things into existence (ala Word of Faith), sorry but that is not biblical. Faith is not a force and our words are not the containers of the force.
NOWHERE in Scripture do we find the promise that all born-again believers living today would be free of physical sickness, pain, affliction.
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/19/2008 10:43:49 PM
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my quivers full
Posts: 114
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earthless
nowhere did I claim word of faith, I quoted this scripture
Death and life are in the power of the tongue,
And those who love it will eat its fruit.
Proverbs 18:21
If you disagree with this scripture, that's up to you. Faith is believing what God said. This what Abraham did and it was accounted to him as righteousness. Faith in action is acting on what God said.
The Lord said to Jeremiah, that He watches over His word to perform it (1:12)
Jesus told of the persistent widow who got what she was owed because of her persistence. (Luke 18:1)
Isaiah said that the chastisment which brought us peace was upon Him and by His wounds we are healed (53:5) We know that Isaiah was speaking of the Messiah. The word of the Lord says we were healed at the cross, we have a right as Gods children to ask for what He provided. If you provide food for your children, do they not have a right to ask you for something to eat when they are hungry? God provided healing for us, we, His children, can ask our Heavenly Father for what He has for us. If it does not come right away, be persistent. It is not a sin. Do we not think that God will see we want Him to give us what He says He wants to give us. Do you think this might please Him that we know what He has done for us and we believe enough to keep asking till we receive it? I'm not talking new cars and houses, I'm talking about need.
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/20/2008 6:17:02 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3838
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: my quivers full
earthless
nowhere did I claim word of faith, I quoted this scripture
Death and life are in the power of the tongue,
And those who love it will eat its fruit.
Proverbs 18:21
If you disagree with this scripture, that's up to you. Faith is believing what God said. This what Abraham did and it was accounted to him as righteousness. Faith in action is acting on what God said. While I am not who you wrote this to, I will jump in and say that even though you have not claimed wof, you are using the wof application of the passage.
Context, my brother. This is a PROVERB, not an absolute law nature or spirit. That does not denigrate the passage (or the book) at all; indeed, it is using it as HE intended.
The meaning behind the proverb: what you say can soothe and encourage someone, or can cut them to the heart and emotionally destroy them. You will benefit if you use your words to build people up.
If we take passages such as this to order the universe (and even God) to obey our will, who are we saying is really god?
Does God heal today? Absolutely yes. Does He speak to us and do miracles? Again, yes.
Does He do it on our timetable or in the way we think He should? Sometimes but not always.
Do NOT try to intrepret scripture from a 20th or 21st century western mindset. It will lead you to many wrong conclusions.
< Message edited by DaveW -- 6/20/2008 6:28:16 AM >
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/20/2008 7:30:48 AM
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PolarBear
Posts: 748
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Moving to San Antonio!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tomb
Know anyone who has walked on water lately?
Where does Jesus say we should walk on water?
quote:
Know anyone who has raised a person from being dead for four days Lately?
There have been some accounts. None that I know personally.
quote:
The reason for miracles was to confirm the word (message) was from God and the messenger was sent by God (Mark 16:20) (Heb.2:3,4). And of course to create faith in men (John 20:30,31).
Another reason is because Jesus simply had compassion on the sick. He is the same today, yesterday, and forever. He still has compassion for the sick!
quote:
The written word about the miracles should be enough to create faith in men today (John 20:30,31).
I agree to a certain extent, since a lot of testing can be done that validates the Biblical text. However miracles certainly add weight to the message, even today.
And a lot of miracles today (maybe the vast majority of them) happen on the frontiers of the mission field, where the Gospel is being preached for the first time into demonic territory.
quote:
But if you can make an appoinment with someone who can raise the dead,lets all meet at a cemetery and see what happens. The proof will be in the puddin (1Thess. 5:21).
That isn't how Jesus or anyone in the New Testament did it or what the Scripture tells us to do. Neither does it tell us to go "clear out hospitals." God heals when/where He wants, based on His criteria. "Mass healings" didn't occur in the Bible, but many individuals, each of whom wanted to receive healing from Jesus.
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/20/2008 8:05:04 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1728
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Is it really just a matter of believing or did God actually give to some of us the ability to heal?
Scripture tells us that some are given the ability to heal? In what context though?
Mental, physical, emotional?
How about all.
Luke was a physician. If we weren't meant to heal, why would Luke have been given as an example?
We simply can not discount that we have been given some amazing doctors as well as treatments.
We have to be able to discern what it is that God is telling us when it comes to healing. Whether or not we need prayer or a doctor. If we seek Him first, we can be assured that we will find what it is He wants from us.
Sometimes our healings are not for us, but are used as a testimony to others.
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/20/2008 8:05:08 AM
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earthless
Posts: 5397
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: my quivers full
earthless
nowhere did I claim word of faith, I quoted this scripture
Death and life are in the power of the tongue,
And those who love it will eat its fruit.
Proverbs 18:21
If you disagree with this scripture, that's up to you. Faith is believing what God said. This what Abraham did and it was accounted to him as righteousness. Faith in action is acting on what God said.
The Lord said to Jeremiah, that He watches over His word to perform it (1:12)
Jesus told of the persistent widow who got what she was owed because of her persistence. (Luke 18:1)
Isaiah said that the chastisment which brought us peace was upon Him and by His wounds we are healed (53:5) We know that Isaiah was speaking of the Messiah. The word of the Lord says we were healed at the cross, we have a right as Gods children to ask for what He provided. If you provide food for your children, do they not have a right to ask you for something to eat when they are hungry? God provided healing for us, we, His children, can ask our Heavenly Father for what He has for us. If it does not come right away, be persistent. It is not a sin. Do we not think that God will see we want Him to give us what He says He wants to give us. Do you think this might please Him that we know what He has done for us and we believe enough to keep asking till we receive it? I'm not talking new cars and houses, I'm talking about need.
I do not disagree that our words can hurt people and our edify people. But we cannot speak things into existence (positive confession/negative confession). Our hope is in the Lord, not in our own words, not even in our own faith (Psalm 33:20-22).
Our faith comes from God in the first place (2 Peter 1:1), and is not something we create for ourselves.
The mantra "by his stripes we are healed" is repeated endlessly in Christian circles. However, these words extracted from Isaiah 53:5 focus on spiritual rather than physical healing.
First, a quick look at the context makes it clear that Isaiah had spiritual rather than physical healing in mind: Christ "was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed (Isaiah 53:5, NKJV).
Peter builds on this understanding when he writes, "He Himself bore our sins in His Body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness by His wounds you have been healed" (1 Peter 2:24).
Furthermore, while healing for the body is not referred to in Isaiah 53:5, it is referred to in he verse immediately preceding it. Here Isaiah writes, "Surely He has borne our grief’s and carried our sorrows; Yet was esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted" (Isaiah 53:4 NKJV).
Physical healing here is not only clear in context, but it is affirmed by the Gospels where it is given an important qualification: "When evening came, many who were demon possessed were brought to Him, and He drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: "He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases'" (Matthew 8:16-17).
Thus, the healing here was fulfilled during the ministry of Jesus Christ and does not guarantee healing today.
Finally, I should note that in a real sense Christ's atonement on the cross does extend to physical healing. One day, "there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things have passed away" (Revelation 21:4).
However, as the apostle Paul points out, "We hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently" (Romans 8:25).
In the meantime, we will all experience sickness and suffering. Indeed, those who live before Christ returns will all die of their last disease - the death rate is one per person and we're all going to make it!
Nowhere are we promised a life here and now free of sickness and pain.
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/20/2008 8:55:31 AM
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my quivers full
Posts: 114
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Canada
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I know that it is Gods will to heal, He has made that very plain to me. The fact that people work so hard to undo this truth explains why so many can't receive healing, they don't believe and are willing to be full of doubts.
I can't order God around, But scriptures show many many times where people sought God for healing and that is what they got. Nowhere did Jesus say to anyone, No I won't heal you because God is trying to work something out in your life. The scriptures say He healed all who came to Him. That is still true today. Even when a gentile woman wanted healing for her daughter and jesus told her that he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, she persisted, because she recognized who He was. He gave her request to her.
Jesus said there would be a great falling away in the end days and many will walk away from the faith. No doubt because people put human reasoning above the word of God. I have not said we will not be sick, we can and we need to recognize that we also have healing available to us. Can you show me where what jesus did in His days is no longer applicable for us? That we can't walk in His words, "you will do greater things than I have done?" We don't do these things in our own strength but in the strength of the Holy Spirit.
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/20/2008 9:05:56 AM
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earthless
Posts: 5397
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: my quivers full
I know that it is Gods will to heal, He has made that very plain to me.
Again, you will find nowhere in Scripture that promises physical healing for all people alive today. Feelings of "knowing" does not equate to truth from God's Word.
quote:
ORIGINAL: my quivers full
The fact that people work so hard to undo this truth explains why so many can't receive healing, they don't believe and are willing to be full of doubts.
It is not God's will to always physically heal everyone, that is made clear to us in the context of Scripture.
quote:
ORIGINAL: my quivers full
I can't order God around, But scriptures show many many times where people sought God for healing and that is what they got. Nowhere did Jesus say to anyone, No I won't heal you because God is trying to work something out in your life.
Jesus' earthly ministry was to establish the point of Him being who He claimed to be. It had its time and divine purpose to authenticate His Lordship.
quote:
ORIGINAL: my quivers full
The scriptures say He healed all who came to Him. That is still true today. Even when a gentile woman wanted healing for her daughter and jesus told her that he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, she persisted, because she recognized who He was. He gave her request to her.
Jesus said there would be a great falling away in the end days and many will walk away from the faith. No doubt because people put human reasoning above the word of God.
And that is exactly what is happening due to Word of Faith churches/circles. Look at the current mayhem in Lakeland/Todd Bentley.
quote:
ORIGINAL: my quivers full
I have not said we will not be sick, we can and we need to recognize that we also have healing available to us. Can you show me where what jesus did in His days is no longer applicable for us? That we can't walk in His words, "you will do greater things than I have done?"
Some people (including, it would seem, you) take this passage to mean greater manifestations of the power of God would take place after Jesus' ministry.
Given almost 2,000 years of Christian history, such a perspective is hard to justify. Jesus raised the dead, walked on water, created food for thousands, healed lepers and the crippled, opened the eyes of the blind and the ears of the deaf - and, as God in the flesh, resurrected himself from the dead! (John 2:19-22).
The point of the passage, when Jesus said his followers would do "greater things" (John 14:11-14) is best understood by the immediate context that precedes these verses and those that immediately follow.
Firstly, the context that immediately follows this passage. In verses 15-18 of John 14 we see that in speaking of "greater things" Jesus was speaking of a spiritual dimension, a reality that, at the time of his earthly ministry, was not yet made available to all humanity. In talking about "greater things," Jesus was talking about the significance and meaning of not only what he had not yet done in his earthly ministry - his crucifixion and resurrection - but also the coming of another counselor - God the Holy Spirit.
So Jesus is saying, in terms of "greater things" that the work of God the Holy Spirit would begin. Just as Jesus had come to be with us and among us, in the flesh, God the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, another counselor, lives in us, spiritually.
Secondly, it is also helpful to consider the context that precedes the verses in which Jesus promises "greater things." In the initial verses of John 14 Jesus reassures his disciples, using metaphorical language, that he is going to prepare a place for them in his Father's house. Jesus told them he knew the way to his Father's house. One of his disciples, Thomas, apparently didn't grasp the deeper meaning of Jesus' words, and like many today, attempt to apply literal meaning to symbolic, metaphorical language inspired by God.
Thomas said that the disciples didn't know the way to the Father's house, and therefore they would have no idea how to join Jesus there. Jesus responded with the well known passage, "I am the way, the truth and the life" (John 14:6). Using the verb "to be", identifying himself as the great I AM of the Bible, Jesus made it clear that he was God in the flesh, and that we don't need to find the way to the Father's house if we know Jesus - Jesus doesn't just give us directions, He Himself embodies the "way, the truth and the life." If we are in Him and He in us, then we are going the "right direction" - we are in Him and He is in us.
So, given the context - how exactly would the followers of Jesus do "greater things"? We will experience, and we will be used, by God, because of his grace, to see spiritual transformation.
Jesus' ministry was filled with physical miracles, but physical miracles are not the greatest miracles. The greatest, most wonderful miracles are spiritual healings, spiritual rescues, spiritual transformations.
By God's grace we can be used as his tools to help direct our friends and family to the Great Physician, who will give us new life, transformed life, so that, because of him, we will cross over from death to life (John 5:24).
What a tragedy that religion misleads people and has them looking for the physical, when the "greater things" of the gospel of Jesus Christ are all about the internal transformation that God will work in the lives of those who accept our Lord and Savior.
He asked me to remind you.
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/21/2008 7:15:54 AM
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Tomb
Posts: 265
Joined: 8/31/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PolarBear
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tomb
Know anyone who has walked on water lately?
Where does Jesus say we should walk on water?
quote:
Know anyone who has raised a person from being dead for four days Lately?
There have been some accounts. None that I know personally.
quote:
The reason for miracles was to confirm the word (message) was from God and the messenger was sent by God (Mark 16:20) (Heb.2:3,4). And of course to create faith in men (John 20:30,31).
Another reason is because Jesus simply had compassion on the sick. He is the same today, yesterday, and forever. He still has compassion for the sick!
quote:
The written word about the miracles should be enough to create faith in men today (John 20:30,31).
I agree to a certain extent, since a lot of testing can be done that validates the Biblical text. However miracles certainly add weight to the message, even today.
And a lot of miracles today (maybe the vast majority of them) happen on the frontiers of the mission field, where the Gospel is being preached for the first time into demonic territory.
quote:
But if you can make an appoinment with someone who can raise the dead,lets all meet at a cemetery and see what happens. The proof will be in the puddin (1Thess. 5:21).
That isn't how Jesus or anyone in the New Testament did it or what the Scripture tells us to do. Neither does it tell us to go "clear out hospitals." God heals when/where He wants, based on His criteria. "Mass healings" didn't occur in the Bible, but many individuals, each of whom wanted to receive healing from Jesus.
1. You have asked a great question. That is the point I am trying to make. God has not told us to preform miracles (nor expect them in our day and time). He has told us to preach the gospel (Rom.1:16) (Mt.28:18-20) (Mark 16:15,16).
2. I must agree our Lord is the same yesterday,today and forever. But that does not mean that the Lord did not change how he deals with man. And that is exactly what the Lord has done according to (Jer.31:31-34) (Heb.8:6-13 ; 9:15-17 ; 10:9,10). God deals with those living on this side of the cross in a different manner than those who lived before the death of Jesus.
From the time of Adam to the time of the Apostles in the first century miracles had a purpose. From that time on till today the Lord said to preach the gospel to every creature (Mark 16:15,16). The power now is in the word of God (Rom.1:16). We must go about calling all people by the gospel (preaching the word) (2Thess.2:14). If they refuse to obey that gospel they will learn about (2Thess.2:10-12) (2Thess.1:7-9). It is a great occasion anytime a person chooses to submit to the word of God and serve Him and then become free from sin (Rom.6:16-18).
3. I would agree that miracles help to create faith in man.That is why I posted (John 20:30,31). This text tells us there were certain miracles which were done in the first century which were written down so that people later would believe. The written word of God is just as powerful as any miracle preformed if planted in the good and honest heart (Rom.1:16) (Luke 8:15).
4. The people being raised from the dead are always in a far off land. It is always a story,never any proof. We can film people living in the backwoods of Africa and other places,but we cannot film a miracle being preformed. There's a good reason why? Miracles do not happen today.
The body healing itself in a natural way is not a miracle. A miracle is somethng that happens which is contrary to all natural laws. Like walking on water or raising someone who has been dead for over four days,or re-attaching an ear after it has been cut off only to look like it never had been cut off.
5. I am not talking about a mass of dead people being raised,I am talking about just one. If you can find the person who can raise the dead we will watch him raise just one person who has been dead more than four days. (1Thess.5:21).
Thanks for posting PolarBear
http://missionprinting.us/mp_newindex.html
Click on Publications - Look for a lesson on miracles
in love tomb
< Message edited by Tomb -- 6/21/2008 7:30:41 AM >
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/21/2008 8:27:11 AM
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Tomb
Posts: 265
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PolarBear
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tomb
Healing (miracles) ceased around the end of the first century (1Cor. 13:8-10) (Eph. 4:11-13). One of the reasons we know it ceased is because the only ones who could pass on the gifts to other people were the apostles according to (Acts 6:6 ; 8:18).
What nonsense. Try telling that to those who have seen miracles, and it's not hard to find a Christian who has.
Also, healing is not mentioned only in the context of apostles. Ananias, a non-apostle, laid hands on Saul for him to receive his sight. Paul mentioned healing as a spiritual gift in 1 Cor 12. And Jesus said that healing will be a sign of those who believe (again, as I've said before, this is not a guarantee that it will happen every time).
Hello Polarbear,I think you misunderstood my post. I realize that people other than apostles done miracles in the first century. I did not claim that ONLY the apostles done miracles (who were the apostles passing the gifts too?).
What I did say was that it was only the apostles that could pass on the gifts of the Holy Spirit to other people (Acts 6:6 ; 8:18).
The question is,what happened after all the apostles died somewhere around the end of the first century? Does the scriptures anywhere teach that people other than the apostles could pass on the gifts of the Holy Spirit? The answer is no according to (Acts 6:6 ; 8:18).
(Acts 6:6) - Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.
(Acts8:18) - And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Thanks for posting Polarbear.
http://missionprinting.us/mp_newindex.html
Click on Publications
Look for "A Reply To A Denominational Preacher"
tomb
< Message edited by Tomb -- 6/21/2008 8:35:49 AM >
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/21/2008 8:54:32 AM
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Tomb
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tomb
Then we will see if what I am saying is nonsense or not.
tomb awaits
Tell that at your church's next prayer time. If God doesn't answer any prayer, why pray for the sick?
Yes the Gospel was confirmed and I doubt anyone will have a gift of miracles or perhaps even a gift of healing, but let's not confuse that with corporate prayer or even individual prayer being answered by God. It does happen and you probably know I don't mind questioning and denouncing what I think are false reports, but God is still God.
I could make a different deal with you. I can show you a man who can walk and talk miraculously after a doctor removed the infected half of his brain---documented. The son of a local businessman I've known for twenty years received this miraculous recovery as his church prayed for him while he was in surgery. Half his brain was removed...no ifs ands or maybes.
1. Why pray for the sick? So that this wonderful body the Lord made may work in the way he intended and heal itself by natural law.
2. The fact that the brain can learn to function properly (with half a brain) is not a miracle. God has designed the body to heal itself in magnificent ways,but none of them would be in the category of a miracle. The body heals itself by natural laws .
It seems people have redefined the meaning of a true miracle. If a person went to a doctor to be operated on,that does not compare with the miracles that happened in the first century . A true miracle means that no doctor would be required.
Gospel Broadcasting Network - http://www.gbntv.org/
Good bible lessons
tomb
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/21/2008 1:51:21 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5028
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
NOWHERE in Scripture do we find the promise that all born-again believers living today would be free of physical sickness, pain, affliction.
I agree earthless, but we do find this promise in the Scripture;
(Jas 5:14) Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
(Jas 5:15) And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Thanks
RC
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/21/2008 7:59:43 PM
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earthless
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Amen, pastor. God does indeed still heal today - His grace and providence are simply amazing.
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/21/2008 8:20:40 PM
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wintery
Posts: 1328
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tomb
quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tomb
Then we will see if what I am saying is nonsense or not.
tomb awaits
Tell that at your church's next prayer time. If God doesn't answer any prayer, why pray for the sick?
Yes the Gospel was confirmed and I doubt anyone will have a gift of miracles or perhaps even a gift of healing, but let's not confuse that with corporate prayer or even individual prayer being answered by God. It does happen and you probably know I don't mind questioning and denouncing what I think are false reports, but God is still God.
I could make a different deal with you. I can show you a man who can walk and talk miraculously after a doctor removed the infected half of his brain---documented. The son of a local businessman I've known for twenty years received this miraculous recovery as his church prayed for him while he was in surgery. Half his brain was removed...no ifs ands or maybes.
1. Why pray for the sick? So that this wonderful body the Lord made may work in the way he intended and heal itself by natural law.
No, we do not pray for God to let natural law work. This is self-contradictory, unless that god is nature.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tomb
2. The fact that the brain can learn to function properly (with half a brain) is not a miracle. God has designed the body to heal itself in magnificent ways,but none of them would be in the category of a miracle. The body heals itself by natural laws .
Chip Watkins did not "learn to function". He came out of surgery with miraculous function with half his brain removed. If you've ever heard the song "My Strong Arm" by Lenny LeBlanc it is based on Chip's miracle--he's stronger on one side but has function on the other where the doctors warned he could be a paraplegic or a vegetable.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tomb
It seems people have redefined the meaning of a true miracle. If a person went to a doctor to be operated on,that does not compare with the miracles that happened in the first century . A true miracle means that no doctor would be required.
It seems that people have redefined the workings of God to suit themselves. A true miracle is God helping when man can't.
< Message edited by wintery -- 6/21/2008 8:35:31 PM >
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RE: Question About Healing - 6/21/2008 8:29:12 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 6070
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
It is not always God's will for people to be healed. Just look at (1 John 5:16 NKJV) If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. There is a lot of debate about sin unto death, but this is my take on it. Someone who has smoked cigarettes for 40 years and has lung cancer, or were drunkards for years and has cirrhosis of the liver etc and is dieing, i feel this is what this verse is talking about.
I've been trying to quit smoking many years now. I can't say I've ever seen that verse used before in regards to smoking. In fact, I thought that verse was about Spiritual death.
Anyway- back to topic.....
Some people are quickly healed and some aren't. God heals in His time and in His way. Sometimes He doesn't heal at all. He has His reasons which are beyond my reasoning.
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RE: Question About Healing from Trixie 123 - 6/22/2008 2:27:31 AM
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louisemlc48
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To trixie 123
I believe that Christians have different Spiritual Gifts. Not all have the gift of healing, or the gift of miracles, as in the scriptures below:
1 Corinthians 12:1-11
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: 2 You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. 4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same F39 Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
And there is still the question of "faith". Faith and belief goes hand | | |
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