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RE: I found out something about DH... - 6/11/2008 11:44:44 PM
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Hislittleone
Posts: 619
Joined: 7/13/2007
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quote:
I do feel a number of people (you included) are coming down WAY hard on this guy. I've been in his shoes, and believe me, I sympathize with him.
My husband will tell you that he appreciates me being "hard on him" for all these years. He would tell you that it really helped to bring him to change. He actually thanks me for it.
I'm sure you do sympathize with this guy. You have never been on the receiving end of this. So please remember that you are speaking to a hurting wife in this thread, not her husband.
quote:
Or he's using exaggeration to show how the avoidance of sin is basically impossible for everyone on Earth.
I've never heard this interpretation of that passage. So basically you are saying that Jesus was trying to show us that the avoidance of sin is pretty much impossible so what.....we might as well go ahead and do it? Jesus was tempted in the human form but remained sinless. We are to strive to follow that example not throw our hands in the air and say "We're only human and can't be perfect so might as well not try too hard". Yes, God forgives us when we fail Him but He wants us to follow in His footsteps, not wallow in our sin. Don't want to derail the this thread but you confused me a little here. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding? 
quote:
I must say I'm very thankful that my wife is so loving and gentle with me, and I hope that the anonimity of the computer is what makes some of these folks so harsh and quick to cast stones.
I don't know if you're referring to my posts as being harsh (I may have come across as being very direct and strong in my opinion but was not harsh.) but like I said, I'm this way with my husband and he is very grateful for it. My husband has been porn free for over 1 year now and he gives me part of the credit for that because I have held his feet to the fire. I greatly respect the fact that he chooses to do the right thing no matter how difficult.
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Going as far as calling it adultery? I assume they've never experienced the true pain of infidelity to compare catching their guy looking at porn.
Um, that's what Jesus likened it to. Obviously you've never been a wife who's experienced betrayal in this form. It is absolutely devastating to a woman whether the betrayal is in the form of mental thoughts, emotional attachments or physical affairs. Any of those is a betrayal in a very deep, real sense.
Stillabride, I hope and pray that your husband is telling the truth and that this will be the last you ever have to deal with this.
< Message edited by Hislittleone -- 6/12/2008 5:10:12 AM >
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RE: I found out something about DH... - 6/12/2008 9:18:12 AM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1086
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
My husband will tell you that he appreciates me being "hard on him" for all these years. He would tell you that it really helped to bring him to change. He actually thanks me for it.
I'm sure you do sympathize with this guy. You have never been on the receiving end of this. So please remember that you are speaking to a hurting wife in this thread, not her husband.
I do realize that we're dealing with a hurting wife, here. I also realize that she is a wife, and therefore there is a husband involved, too. And I'll garuntee you that he's hurting, too.
Since, when a man and woman join together in bonds of marriage, they become one, you might want to consider trying to help the wife deal with her own problems, but see the other side of the coin as well. Not to condone his actions, but at least understand why they might have occured.
quote:
I've never heard this interpretation of that passage. So basically you are saying that Jesus was trying to show us that the avoidance of sin is pretty much impossible so what.....we might as well go ahead and do it? Jesus was tempted in the human form but remained sinless. We are to strive to follow that example not throw our hands in the air and say "We're only human and can't be perfect so might as well not try too hard". Yes, God forgives us when we fail Him but He wants us to follow in His footsteps, not wallow in our sin. Don't want to derail the this thread but you confused me a little here. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding?
You are misunderstanding. Its NOT saying that we should just go ahead and sin. What its saying is that Jesus is laying out things with hyperbole, meaning tht he's exaggerating. To apply the Sermon on the Mount, it has to be "toned down" to apply to real life. One example of this is the quote I gave you: Jesus saying that you should pluck out an eye if it offends you. Like you correctly stated, its not right to deform your body just because you sin. But that's what Jesus is call for us to do in that passage.
The same goes for your quote about even if a man so much as lusts after a woman in his heart, he's guilty of adultry. If you apply this literally, it means that if you so much as look at a woman on the street and think "Wow, she's hot!" you're guilty of sin. Its not practical to real life, and Jesus would know that.
What the Sermons on the Mount show is how temptation comes about, and how easy it could be to fall into sin with that woman (or fall into sin in other ways, too). The logic behind it would be that Jesus is trying to show just how easy it is to fall into sin and how we need his sacarafice to earn salvation. This explains why Paul, in his letters, actually "softens" some of the rules Jesus lays down in the Sermon on the Mount.
I hope that was a good explanation. If not, please tell me if it was confusing.
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I must say I'm very thankful that my wife is so loving and gentle with me, and I hope that the anonimity of the computer is what makes some of these folks so harsh and quick to cast stones.
quote:
I don't know if you're referring to my posts as being harsh (I may have come across as being very direct and strong in my opinion but was not harsh.) but like I said, I'm this way with my husband and he is very grateful for it. My husband has been porn free for over 1 year now and he gives me part of the credit for that because I have held his feet to the fire. I greatly respect the fact that he chooses to do the right thing no matter how difficult.
Um... yeah. You were harsh. At least that's my interpretation, and apparnetly, I'm not alone. Might I suggest that you are still suffering from some of the anger and hurt that you experienced from your husbands addiction, and thus over-react in situations like this.
Not that your opinion isn't valid or even without more merit that others (you obviously have dealt with a loved one who suffers from a porn addiction, and emerged from it with a stronger marriage, wich I commend you for), but I think you're responses have been harsh and show something else in them, like you're on a crusade.
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Um, that's what Jesus likened it to. Obviously you've never been a wife who's experienced betrayal in this form. It is absolutely devastating to a woman whether the betrayal is in the form of mental thoughts, emotional attachments or physical affairs. Any of those is a betrayal in a very deep, real sense.
See my above comments. I commend you for being able to get through this, and I am sorry that you had to endure it. I'm sure it was tough. But I think your experiences are biasing and harshening your judgement here. I say this with all due respect.
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 6/12/2008 9:34:06 AM >
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RE: I found out something about DH... - 6/12/2008 9:19:16 AM
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KatMack
Posts: 969
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Along the Canopy Roads
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
quote:
Going as far as calling it adultery? I assume they've never experienced the true pain of infidelity to compare catching their guy looking at porn.
Um, that's what Jesus likened it to. Obviously you've never been a wife who's experienced betrayal in this form. It is absolutely devastating to a woman whether the betrayal is in the form of mental thoughts, emotional attachments or physical affairs. Any of those is a betrayal in a very deep, real sense.
Amen and amen! As a wife that's experienced this, I must say that I can't imagine physical infidelity being all that much more painful. I think Jesus was really looking out for us gals when he set the standard on lust so high!
Stillabride, make sure that you and you alone know the admin password to the filter. The filter we use also provides logs of everything that's been viewed that cannot be cleared like the Internet cache can.
--Kat
_____________________________
<-- My sweet blessings.
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RE: I found out something about DH... - 6/12/2008 9:32:24 AM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1086
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KatMack
quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
quote:
Going as far as calling it adultery? I assume they've never experienced the true pain of infidelity to compare catching their guy looking at porn.
Um, that's what Jesus likened it to. Obviously you've never been a wife who's experienced betrayal in this form. It is absolutely devastating to a woman whether the betrayal is in the form of mental thoughts, emotional attachments or physical affairs. Any of those is a betrayal in a very deep, real sense.
Amen and amen! As a wife that's experienced this, I must say that I can't imagine physical infidelity being all that much more painful.
You have no clue. With all due respect, from experience, I can tell you that you have no clue. If you think its painful to find your spouce looking at some nudie magazine or dirty pictures on the internet, finding out that you've actually been replaced by someone else in the bedroom will next to kill you.
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 6/12/2008 9:41:03 AM >
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RE: I found out something about DH... - 6/12/2008 11:51:39 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10852
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
ORIGINAL: KatMack
quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
quote:
Going as far as calling it adultery? I assume they've never experienced the true pain of infidelity to compare catching their guy looking at porn.
Um, that's what Jesus likened it to. Obviously you've never been a wife who's experienced betrayal in this form. It is absolutely devastating to a woman whether the betrayal is in the form of mental thoughts, emotional attachments or physical affairs. Any of those is a betrayal in a very deep, real sense.
Amen and amen! As a wife that's experienced this, I must say that I can't imagine physical infidelity being all that much more painful.
You have no clue. With all due respect, from experience, I can tell you that you have no clue. If you think its painful to find your spouce looking at some nudie magazine or dirty pictures on the internet, finding out that you've actually been replaced by someone else in the bedroom will next to kill you.
To this I can say Amen. It's the closest thing to a very real death that you could imagine...
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: I found out something about DH... - 6/12/2008 12:09:37 PM
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Hislittleone
Posts: 619
Joined: 7/13/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
And I'll garuntee you that he's hurting, too
I'm sure he is hurting. But he's bringing more hurt onto himself and not only himself but his wife also by choosing to sin.
I have spent many years trying to figure out why men do this. While each man will have a different reason it all boils down to being an excuse. As I said before, the reason why he did this doesn't matter so much as that he did do it. So whatever way he wishes to justify it (i.e. he is hurting so he turned to porn) still doesn't make it any less of a sin.
quote:
Um... yeah. You were harsh. At least that's my interpretation, and apparnetly, I'm not alone. Might I suggest that you are still suffering from some of the anger and hurt that you experienced from your husbands addiction, and thus over-react in situations like this.
I'm sorry you think I was harsh. I do try to choose my words carefully and never intend to hurt anyone. I still don't believe I was harsh or hurtful here. And how do you determine whether I'm overreacting or not? Afterall, it's a subjective opinion. I don't know that I'd say I was on a crusade but I definitely feel very strongly about marriages that are affected by pornography.
A couple of years ago, if you'd asked my husband whether he thought I was too hard on him he would have said yes. But now that he has truly repented (being sorry AND stopping the sin) and really changed he thanks me for holding him to such a high standard. That's how you can tell the difference between a man who really "gets it" (how serious this sin is and how much it grieves God and a wife). The men who "get it" and are truly repentant are the ones who don't offer excuses.
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If you apply this literally, it means that if you so much as look at a woman on the street and think "Wow, she's hot!" you're guilty of sin. Its not practical to real life, and Jesus would know that.
I understand what you are saying about this passage and I agree that Jesus was perhaps using exageration to get a point across. But that doesn't mean He was lowering the standard. His point was how serious sin is and that we should avoid it at all costs. So on that point we disagree. Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus lower the standard for us. He shows us grace when we sin but He has commanded us to live righteous lives. And no, it's not righteous to look at a woman other than your wife and think "Wow, she's hot!". Jesus expects believers to have very high standards of purity. And men who do that (looking at other women in that way) have a mediocre standard of purity. And no, not all men do that. My husband has made a covenant with his eyes just like Job did. He strives for the highest standard of purity, following Jesus' example. Does he fail at times? Sure, but it's less and less often now. I don't expect perfection, but I do hold him to a very high standard. I do believe in grace, mercy and forgiveness. But when a person commits the same sin over and over then it indicates a serious problem. And most guys don't just look at women or pornography once in their lives. It's usually something that occurs over and over and over. Hopefully Stillabride's husband will be one of the very few men who turns from this sin once and for all.
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I think Jesus was really looking out for us gals when he set the standard on lust so high!
Thank you Kat! I completely agree.
quote:
You have no clue. With all due respect, from experience, I can tell you that you have no clue. If you think its painful to find your spouce looking at some nudie magazine or dirty pictures on the internet, finding out that you've actually been replaced by someone else in the bedroom will next to kill you.
I have been betrayed in this way (physically) though not by my husband. So I can understand the pain and let me tell you it's not that much different. Perhaps you just don't understand what it really does to a wife when her husband looks at pornography. If your wife looked at porn it would affect you differently than it affects her when you looked at it. Men and women are different. So you can't fully understand the kind of pain this causes a woman's heart.
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RE: I found out something about DH... - 6/12/2008 1:23:06 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1086
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
I'm sure he is hurting. But he's bringing more hurt onto himself and not only himself but his wife also by choosing to sin.
I have spent many years trying to figure out why men do this. While each man will have a different reason it all boils down to being an excuse. As I said before, the reason why he did this doesn't matter so much as that he did do it. So whatever way he wishes to justify it (i.e. he is hurting so he turned to porn) still doesn't make it any less of a sin.
If I have no ability to understand why a woman would be affected by this, why should men expect you to understand how men are affected by events like this and the changes it has on their wives. Maybe it doesn't justify turning to porn, but it may help you understand what problems he's having LEAD HIM TO THIS POINT! Then both can work on correcting those issues so it doesn't happen again. That's why you deal with both partners, rather than just the one.
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I'm sorry you think I was harsh. I do try to choose my words carefully and never intend to hurt anyone.
Try harder, and don't be so judgemental.
quote:
And how do you determine whether I'm overreacting or not? Afterall, it's a subjective opinion. I don't know that I'd say I was on a crusade but I definitely feel very strongly about marriages that are affected by pornography.
Apparently, that's also a subjective opinion. Also of subjective opinion is how each marriage is affected by pornography, and how serious of a sin this is, isn't it?
quote:
A couple of years ago, if you'd asked my husband whether he thought I was too hard on him he would have said yes. But now that he has truly repented (being sorry AND stopping the sin) and really changed he thanks me for holding him to such a high standard. That's how you can tell the difference between a man who really "gets it" (how serious this sin is and how much it grieves God and a wife). The men who "get it" and are truly repentant are the ones who don't offer excuses.
Congratulations. I'm glad this method worked for you.
quote:
I understand what you are saying about this passage and I agree that Jesus was perhaps using exageration to get a point across. But that doesn't mean He was lowering the standard. His point was how serious sin is and that we should avoid it at all costs. So on that point we disagree. Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus lower the standard for us. He shows us grace when we sin but He has commanded us to live righteous lives. And no, it's not righteous to look at a woman other than your wife and think "Wow, she's hot!".
Apparently you are REALLY missing the point here. Righteous or not, it happens. Even an unmarried man who looks at another woman and thinks about how good she looks is guilty of sin. If we follow this text to the letter, nobody's getting married or even going out on a date. THE WHOLE THING IS AN EXAGGERATION!!!! JESUS IS NOT HOLDING US UP TO THAT STANDARD!!! There IS NO STANDARD in this text that Jesus is holding us up to. He's making another point, entirely, about the need for him in regards to our salvation.
quote:
Jesus expects believers to have very high standards of purity. And men who do that (looking at other women in that way) have a mediocre standard of purity. And no, not all men do that. My husband has made a covenant with his eyes just like Job did. He strives for the highest standard of purity, following Jesus' example. Does he fail at times? Sure, but it's less and less often now. I don't expect perfection, but I do hold him to a very high standard.
I'm glad you two are happy together. Congratulations!
quote:
I do believe in grace, mercy and forgiveness. But when a person commits the same sin over and over then it indicates a serious problem. And most guys don't just look at women or pornography once in their lives. It's usually something that occurs over and over and over. Hopefully Stillabride's husband will be one of the very few men who turns from this sin once and for all.
Here we go, again. You're immediately saying that he does this over and over, again. THERE IS NO INDICATION THAT HE'S ADDICTED TO PORN LIKE YOUR HUSBAND WAS! This DOES NOT mean that I justify his actions. There's obviously a reason why he resorted to this, and they need to find out what that was. BUT HE'S NOT NECESSARILY ADDICTED TO PRON. NOT EVERYONE HAS THE PROBLEMS YOUR HUSBAND HAS/HAD. You yourself have said in previous posts that this was probably the first time it happened, but still seem to treat it like he's got some addiction. You also generalize that most men have a problem with porn and lustful thought. CHILL OUT!
This is why I suggest that you're biased on the situation.
quote:
I think Jesus was really looking out for us gals when he set the standard on lust so high!
AGAIN! He didn't set the standard so high; YOU did.
Please no offense when I ask this: Are you guys Baptists?
quote:
You have no clue. With all due respect, from experience, I can tell you that you have no clue. If you think its painful to find your spouce looking at some nudie magazine or dirty pictures on the internet, finding out that you've actually been replaced by someone else in the bedroom will next to kill you.
I have been betrayed in this way (physically) though not by my husband. So I can understand the pain and let me tell you it's not that much different. Perhaps you just don't understand what it really does to a wife when her husband looks at pornography. If your wife looked at porn it would affect you differently than it affects her when you looked at it. Men and women are different. So you can't fully understand the kind of pain this causes a woman's heart.
So my views on this are apparently null and void, since I'm a man?
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 6/12/2008 1:40:18 PM >
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RE: I found out something about DH... - 6/12/2008 2:38:21 PM
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Stronger2day
Posts: 106
Joined: 5/26/2008
Status: offline
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Walking in and catching my husband in the middle of the night as he sat in a closed office carrying on fantasy with another woman (no they are not just pictures- they are women) is devastating. I have been cheated on by a man in the physical sense and by my husband with pornography and both were horrible.
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RE: I found out something about DH... - 6/12/2008 3:08:34 PM
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karlie
Posts: 16920
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: Central California
Status: offline
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Attention: Moderator's Note:
A couple of you are bordering on personal attacks and inflammatory comments which are against TOS. If you can't discuss this issue rationally and calmly, then you probably should refrain from posting here at all. This thread will be locked if everyone can't play nice.
Please email community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments or concerns.
Please do not respond to this post within the community or PM me.
Karlie,
Forums Moderator
_____________________________
You can't stop the waves, but you can learn how to surf.
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RE: I found out something about DH... - 6/12/2008 4:03:06 PM
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Hislittleone
Posts: 619
Joined: 7/13/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
Hislittleone:
I do believe in grace, mercy and forgiveness. But when a person commits the same sin over and over then it indicates a serious problem. And most guys don't just look at women or pornography once in their lives. It's usually something that occurs over and over and over. Hopefully Stillabride's husband will be one of the very few men who turns from this sin once and for all.
quote:
You're immediately saying that he does this over and over, again.
I did not say that Stillabride's husband does this over and over again. I was speaking in generalities here except for the last sentence. That's where I specifically addressed Stillabride's husband....saying I don't know if he will be one of those who does not go back to it over and over again but I do hope he is.
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RE: I found out something about DH... - 6/24/2008 12:32:16 AM
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h_seaton
Posts: 24
Joined: 4/23/2008
From: Kansas City, KS
Status: offline
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It's sad how many forum in the marriage section are about porn addiction. I really feel for you... I really do. This is what I tell every woman who's husband is addicted to porn.
I've been hurt badly by this same situation before, and I was given this advice... "As much as it hurts you, please try to remember that you two are on the same side. You were given to him to be a help mate so that you can help him win over evil." Help him fight this battle just as aggressively as if it were your own. He will need you in this battle because you are not consumed by the sin like he is, and he needs someone with a clear head, void of the temptation, to help him. I know it hurts because it was a sin against you, but more importantly it is a sin against God.
He needs God's, and your help to get through this.
_____________________________
†Heather
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RE: I found out something about DH... - 6/26/2008 12:32:32 AM
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LivePrayDream
Posts: 36
Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline
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I had something all written up last night that I was going to post here, then I got really sick and had to go. :( Anyway..
TorchHeart is correct. I think a lot of people here are jumping to the conclusion that he is an "addict" when he honestly may have only looked at it once. Why don't you trust your husband's word to you? Has he given you any reason before to not trust him? His friends may have just sent him a link and told him to take a look at it. It may have been just simple curiosity, in which case, there's no need to chastise the man for it. Let him repent to the Lord and then drop it.
However, if he is looking at porn regularly, you need to treat it as an addiction. Don't chastise him for it, but be supportive of his treatment to stop. You may have to figure out if there is an underlying issue to it as well. Is he not feeling satisfied enough? Is he depressed about something (he may be depressed about losing the baby so this is his way to get his mind off of it and do something enjoyable)? These things need to be addressed before he's going to successfully stop.
And for the record, I am a female, married to a man who used to read pornographic stories. He has admitted to me that he read some stories while we were together, but before I had told him my thoughts on porn. He hasn't read any since and I trust my husband when he tells me he hasn't. I am sorry some of you women on here have had such bad experiences with your husbands that you seem to have it in for any male who even accidentally clicks on a link.
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RE: I found out something about DH... - 6/26/2008 4:34:14 PM
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KatMack
Posts: 969
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Along the Canopy Roads
Status: online
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quote:
I am sorry some of you women on here have had such bad experiences with your husbands that you seem to have it in for any male who even accidentally clicks on a link.
I don't "have it in for any male who even accidentally clicks on a link" as you put it. I know from my personal experience and from talking to many others and doing a lot of reading that the odds of this being a one time thing are slim. I'm not out to get the guy or attack him. My concern was to prepare her in case she discovers more evidence later on.
--Kat
_____________________________
<-- My sweet blessings.
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RE: I found out something about DH... - 6/26/2008 9:17:19 PM
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Stronger2day
Posts: 106
Joined: 5/26/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KatMack
quote:
I am sorry some of you women on here have had such bad experiences with your husbands that you seem to have it in for any male who even accidentally clicks on a link.
I don't "have it in for any male who even accidentally clicks on a link" as you put it. I know from my personal experience and from talking to many others and doing a lot of reading that the odds of this being a one time thing are slim. I'm not out to get the guy or attack him. My concern was to prepare her in case she discovers more evidence later on.
--Kat
If he indeed was an innocent male who accidentally clicked on a link unknowingly, then no big deal. Most of us who have had experiences with this know that the majority of the time, it is not the case. Her experience was shared, and we responded to the best of our ability based on what we have encountered in our lives and have witnessed and read. I believed blindly and should have been a bit more alert. My point to the OP was to be aware that it may not be the first time- if it was an innocent act, why close the door, right?
'have it in for any male who even accidentally clicks on a link'-and we're presumptuous?
_____________________________
"The journey from your mind to your hands is shorter than you're thinking. Be careful if you think you stand, you just might be sinking."
(Slow Fade/Casting Crowns)
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RE: I found out something about DH... - 6/27/2008 12:57:53 AM
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karlie
Posts: 16920
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: Central California
Status: offline
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Attention: Moderator's Note:
This is a reminder to please get back on, and stay on topic.
Please email community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments or concerns.
Please do not respond to this post within the community or PM me.
Karlie,
Forums Moderator
_____________________________
You can't stop the waves, but you can learn how to surf.
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