|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/12/2008 7:19:36 AM
|
|
|
makarizo
Posts: 2919
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
I often report on this Forum about conversations at work regarding Christianity.
Here's what a non-believer said the other day:
Christians are only Christians because they fear going to hell. Hell is their greatest motivator. It has nothing to do with God saving them, God loving them or all the other talk and quotes from the Bible. If you could guarantee to Christians that there was no hell they'd soon forget their Christianity.
How would you respond?
"if you could guarantee.....(lol).."
what happens when you die is between you and God (not all Christians everywhere)... sooo
if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
I can only speak for myself & I BELIEVE, and hell had nothing to do with it.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/12/2008 9:21:55 AM
|
|
|
FatElvis
Posts: 6
Joined: 4/24/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
We are saved from our sins, from an evil way of life. The wrath of God is the final symptom of the disease of our own rebellion. We are saved from the disease, not just the effects of that disease //Once again you ask? That was and is your first post on this message board. //
No it is the first post in this thread I have posted on this message board before its just been a long time
//We are saved from our sins, from an evil way of life. The wrath of God is the final symptom of the disease of our own rebellion. We are saved from the disease, not just the effects of that disease//
Interesting there are alote of things that I have been involved with in the past which I wouldn’t even consider today because there destructive to my well being
And to the well being of others but at the time my judgement was clouded and I couldn’t seee what effects my behavior was having on myself and others
Now I shudder to think about it
Someone I know was talking about the judas priest song ‘breaking the law’ and I asked how is that a good song and he said
‘your breaking the laws of god’
Inside I snorted and thought ‘how is that working out for you?’ and it was nothing to do with the wrath of god its more like
Don’t touch the hot stove and I don’t want you to hurt yourself
Then when you touch it and get burned
Its not gods wrath its ‘that’s why I told you not to touch it’
The truest statement I ever heard about sin was ‘all sin in fun for a season then you reap what you sow and it can be a bitter harvest’
Me I am still struggling to find an abundant life in jesus so I can say LOOK this works for me its BETTER stop struggling he loves you and wants good things for you
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/12/2008 10:45:00 AM
|
|
|
doinkdom
Posts: 4129
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
how can you be "saved" if you don't know what you're being saved from?
I don't particular like tracts, but I think there is valid reasoning behind the focus on God's wrath because that is what you are saved from. But is wrath the primary thing we are saved from, or is it the final result of what we are saved from?
We are saved from our sins, from an evil way of life. The wrath of God is the final symptom of the disease of our own rebellion. We are saved from the disease, not just the effects of that disease.
If we are saved from our sins, then how come we continue to sin and must repent daily?
We can choose not to sin, but we still have a sinful nature. We are justified, but not sanctified. We walk that out every day...learning, living and growing along the way.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/12/2008 10:50:30 AM
|
|
|
Bro_Shane
Posts: 1084
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
I often report on this Forum about conversations at work regarding Christianity.
Here's what a non-believer said the other day:
Christians are only Christians because they fear going to hell. Hell is their greatest motivator. It has nothing to do with God saving them, God loving them or all the other talk and quotes from the Bible. If you could guarantee to Christians that there was no hell they'd soon forget their Christianity.
How would you respond?
John 3:16
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/12/2008 12:50:38 PM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 3991
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
If we are saved from our sins, then how come we continue to sin and must repent daily?
We can choose not to sin, but we still have a sinful nature. We are justified, but not sanctified. We walk that out every day...learning, living and growing along the way. Salvation is a process.
We were saved. We are being saved. We will be saved. All are true.
Yes we do fall. But sin does not have the same hold on us. If we are born again we have a new nature from God.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/12/2008 1:00:55 PM
|
|
|
deermousie
Posts: 1680
Joined: 9/26/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
My answer to the above question? You better believe fear is a motivator. The wisest man to ever live (Solomon) declared that the Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. However, that fear drives me to God, and then He shows me His love for me. So yes, fear is my initial motivation, but it doesn't stay there. Were someone to find a way to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Hell did not exist, I would not care.
Actually, the fear Solomon spoke of was "reverential awe" not dread of death or injury. And I fully agree with you about if Hell didn't exist, I wouldn't care. We love because He first loved us. We see the sacrifice on Calvary and the empty tomb, made in love, and everything else is just details.
This subject is ironic because the Word says:
14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage Heb. 2
It's the *non-Christians* who are enslaved by fear.
And isn't it amazing what spiritually dead people think they know about spiritual life? It would be hilarious if their lives weren't dangling over a pit.
_____________________________
Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/12/2008 2:40:14 PM
|
|
|
doinkdom
Posts: 4129
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
If we are saved from our sins, then how come we continue to sin and must repent daily?
We can choose not to sin, but we still have a sinful nature. We are justified, but not sanctified. We walk that out every day...learning, living and growing along the way. Salvation is a process.
We were saved. We are being saved. We will be saved. All are true.
Yes we do fall. But sin does not have the same hold on us. If we are born again we have a new nature from God.
I don't mean to sound like a blithering buffoon (really I don't), but by describing it this way, it sounds to me like we are saved more than once from more than one thing. Saved from hell, saved from sins, saved from ???.
What about not crucifying Christ again like we read in Hebrews 6? How does that figure into this line of reasoning through scripture?
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/12/2008 5:54:25 PM
|
|
|
deermousie
Posts: 1680
Joined: 9/26/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
I don't mean to sound like a blithering buffoon
Why should I be the only one? 
quote:
but by describing it this way, it sounds to me like we are saved more than once from more than one thing. Saved from hell, saved from sins, saved from ???.
That's true, but all those things are redeemed by a single event: the death and resurrection of the Lord of Life, Jesus.
Dave is correct about the been saved/being saved/will be saved, because salvation in the Greek is used in the Aorist tense, which is one we don't have in English. It means something that started in the past, is happening now, and goes on into the future.
quote:
What about not crucifying Christ again like we read in Hebrews 6? How does that figure into this line of reasoning through scripture?
The idea I think is that a person who has tasted the goodness of the Lord and has had his (or her) sins forgiven, and then has gone back to a habitual sin/rebellion against God, doesn't get to say, "Oh, Christ died for me again" so I get a free pass. The Scripture here is debated, but something means you don't get born again again.
And that's different from blowing it, realizing you're in sin, and confessing it, and turning away from it. We're sinners, we Christians, but we don't live in habitual sin without ever turning from it. A person who calls themself a Christian but does live like the rest of the world habitually has reason to doubt their conversion.
_____________________________
Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/13/2008 6:40:55 AM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 3991
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
Thank you Deermousie for that great explaination.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/13/2008 10:16:33 AM
|
|
|
doinkdom
Posts: 4129
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: online
|
hmmm...processing input
and I have a very slow metabolism
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/13/2008 2:52:22 PM
|
|
|
mvic
Posts: 1335
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: online
|
Thank you Calea,
I've been waiting since I started this thread for someone to admit that their first motivation was the fear of hell.
I suspect that I too, as a young person, was motivated into Christianity by the fear of hell. In those days hell was a favorite subject for sermons.
Then as I grew up and got to know the Lord better my views changed; but hell is and should remain a great motivator in people's lives. Why else does Jesus mention it so often?
By all means, people should praise and thank the Lord for what He has done for us. But they should not ignore the alternative if they turn their back on Him.
_____________________________
Christian words of comfort at http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
Welcome to my Blog
MEI VITA INDICO CHRISTUS
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/13/2008 3:11:45 PM
|
|
|
Butterflytearz
Posts: 142
Joined: 7/6/2006
Status: offline
|
I was in my own private hell until I met Jesus. When you are sick, nobody wants you, when you are down,, everyone blames you, when you don't measure up to the false images the world wants of you , you are lost and alone. Living for the world is hell.
Jesus showed me that this world is not my home, that His love is greater and that He will always love me, stand up for me, provide for me and guide me through to the end.
Jesus came not to condemn the world but to save it, even right here and now. If you seek you will find Him, If you ask you will recieve Him and if you believe your faith will heal you. This I found to be true in my life.
When I felt like garbage, He made me whole again,, its hard to put into words but its a supernatural power that only comes by faith.
So there is no need to threaten people with hell, for separation from God is hell , all we can do is pray for those who are blind and decieved. 
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/13/2008 3:55:16 PM
|
|
|
terryjohn
Posts: 445
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline
|
Actually, the acusation was one I was also beginning to bring against some who preached the law.
As a young christian a attended a meeting were the speaker was preaching the law as a means of geeting people to see their sin and hopefully the grace of God. I was also shocked to hear that some churches would not attend because they did not beleive in this approach.
However, I have heard sincere chrisitans talking about not doing things least they go to hell and I often wondered if they knew God at all for the whole being born-again idea is about being transformed by the renewing of our minds. So this fear of hell or punishment for sins is all about the law of sin and death which many in the old testiment times had to deal with. Now many supposed that at that time they could keep the requirements of the law without the need to have this change of heart that the gospel talks about.
Hell is a reality of being seperated from God and His grace. Now this may not be much of a concern for believers but then we do not preach the gospel of Christ for our own sakes. Those who have come to God out of fear may well resent Him for doing so but those who have fallen in love with Him do not.
Personally, hell was never a motivator for me but His righteousness was. I saw a world full of evil and sin and it convinced me of His goodness. You could say the fact that God has determined that He and He alone should take vengence on those who commit evil restrains me from doing so. There is nothing wrong with God depriving those who despise the grace of God from it for ever.
I remember satan asking me once what I would do if God sent my grandmother to hell, (I loved her more than anyone), suddenly without thought my spirit said, Praise God! This made me stop and think that it was not about me, it was all about God and His righteousness. He is not about creating slaves but rather sons. Sons who do not follow instructions but rather who have their Fathers heart and mind. I do not then follow the righteous requirements of the law for fear of hell but willingly because they are my desire and written on my heart and I can not be seperated from them.
If someone were to say what would you do if God sent you to hell, I hope I would be able to say, Praise God! and then wage war in hell for His righteousness sake.
I guess the preaching of the Gospel is not about telling people they are going to hell unless they say they are christian but more about preaching about the righteousness of God. In the end all those who do not share Gods spirit with relation to His love of goodness shall have all God has provided taken away.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/13/2008 4:43:30 PM
|
|
|
mvic
Posts: 1335
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: online
|
Hi terryjohn,
I genuinely don't understand what you are saying at the end of your post.
Are you saying that if God sent you to hell you would actually praise Him for it? Why?
Presumably He sent you to hell because you did something wrong? So why are you praising Him? To get Him to change His mind?
This is not a criticism of you. I've read your post several times - but I must have missed the point you are making.
_____________________________
Christian words of comfort at http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
Welcome to my Blog
MEI VITA INDICO CHRISTUS
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/13/2008 6:45:08 PM
|
|
|
jbird56
Posts: 13
Joined: 6/13/2008
Status: offline
|
I would tell that person that they do not understand Christianity. I would tell them about the joy I feel in knowing Jesus, in knowing that He died in our place for the forgiveness of our sins. I would tell that person that I have absolutely no fear of hell, that hell had nothing to do with my loving the Lord. I would tell him that God loves me, and him. I am motivated by love, not fear. I love God with my whole heart and live my life for Him. I would tell that person that I know, without a doubt, that I will spend eternity with the Lord, that my motivation is hope and love and the knowledge that I am saved. I would again tell them that they do not have an understanding of Christianity. I would suggest they try reading the Gospels to learn what it is all about. I would ask them what they are afraid of...
1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/14/2008 10:21:52 AM
|
|
|
JusThoughtZ
Posts: 4
Joined: 6/14/2008
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
|
there is some truth in the non-believers statement.....now...its not a matter of WHY your saved...but the fact that you ARE saved. which is the only thing that matters in the end.
Whatever motivates you to live a Christ-centric life. So be it.
Indeed that is not every body's story but they were simply trying to start an argument that was both irrelevant and had no true outcome.
Its kosher.
-JusT
_____________________________
<a href="http://www.myspace.com/foreallydoe">Christian Music</a>
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/14/2008 11:58:11 PM
|
|
|
_CANCELLED_
Posts: 165
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
I often report on this Forum about conversations at work regarding Christianity.
Here's what a non-believer said the other day:
Christians are only Christians because they fear going to hell. Hell is their greatest motivator. It has nothing to do with God saving them, God loving them or all the other talk and quotes from the Bible. If you could guarantee to Christians that there was no hell they'd soon forget their Christianity.
How would you respond?
For someone who isn't a believer they sure think they know a lot about one. I became a Christian after reading the crucifixion alone in my room. First, it broke my heart. Then, it broke me. And I've been whole ever since.
_____________________________
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and they house--Acts 16:31
Looking to buy1991 Won by One (out of) print by Argus Communications (see avatar) Leave PM here
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/16/2008 6:38:27 AM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 3991
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: terryjohn
If someone were to say what would you do if God sent you to hell, I hope I would be able to say, Praise God! and then wage war in hell for His righteousness sake. quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
Hi terryjohn,
I genuinely don't understand what you are saying at the end of your post.
Are you saying that if God sent you to hell you would actually praise Him for it? Why? mvic, it seems you know little of classic (rcc, eoc) christianity as this idea has been held by many from those denominations. The issue is not how much you get from God (i.e. heaven) as it is how much you can do for HIM, no matter what that may mean to you personally.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/16/2008 6:55:45 AM
|
|
|
mvic
Posts: 1335
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: online
|
Hi DaveW,
I think I've understood the point that no matter what we "do for HIM" we can never repay what He has done for us.
But my original question still stands: why would somebody who is sent to hell by God praise Him for it?
_____________________________
Christian words of comfort at http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
Welcome to my Blog
MEI VITA INDICO CHRISTUS
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/16/2008 7:51:17 AM
|
|
|
Calea37
Posts: 736
Joined: 10/2/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Butterflytearz
So there is no need to threaten people with hell, for separation from God is hell ,
I disagree with this. I don't think most unbelievers realize what eternal separation from God really means. They may think, "Who cares?" In hell yes, you have separation from God, but you also have the eternal torment which speaks of fire(Luke 16:23 ~ Matthew 5:22 ~ etc...)which sounds a lot worse than anything we will ever endure here on earth... Whatever the torture here on earth, it will eventually end...the torment/torture in hell will be eternal.
I think if we compare suffering here on earth to the suffering in hell we are doing people a disservice. Even Jesus said in Matthew 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." Hell is real and yes, it's scary. I understand what you are saying about separation from God being the worst thing ever, but will unbelievers? Often they don't see a need for Jesus anyway, so why would separation from Him seem bad? They think they are fine as they are.
I just don't think the realities of hell should be downplayed. I couldn't understand the love that Jesus showed by dying on the cross for me if I didn't understand what He saved me from.
< Message edited by Calea37 -- 6/16/2008 7:57:46 AM >
_____________________________
Calea
Isaiah 2:22 Stop regarding man, whose breath life is in his nostrils; for why should he be esteemed?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/16/2008 8:20:09 AM
|
|
|
mvic
Posts: 1335
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: online
|
Calea,
Good point - well made.
Un-believers by their very nature don't believe in God so separation from Him will mean nothing to them.
There is the possibility that fear of hell may lead them to believe. Slim possibility though, since they would also not beileve in hell, heaven or anything else for that matter. Some un-believers I know believe that once we're dead that's it ... nothing more !!!
So how does a Christian get through to someone like that?
Which takes me back to my Opening Post ... !!! ???
_____________________________
Christian words of comfort at http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
Welcome to my Blog
MEI VITA INDICO CHRISTUS
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/16/2008 8:32:16 AM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 3991
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
But my original question still stands: why would somebody who is sent to hell by God praise Him for it?
Because HE is worthy of all praise no matter what.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Fear is your motivator. - 6/16/2008 9:08:06 AM
|
|
|
Calea37
Posts: 736
Joined: 10/2/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
Calea,
Good point - well made.
Un-believers by their very nature don't believe in God so separation from Him will mean nothing to them.
There is the possibility that fear of hell may lead them to believe. Slim possibility though, since they would also not beileve in hell, heaven or anything else for that matter. Some un-believers I know believe that once we're dead that's it ... nothing more !!!
So how does a Christian get through to someone like that?
Which takes me back to my Opening Post ... !!! ???
Thankfully, WE are not the ones responsible for drawing people to Him; the Holy Spirit is. All we can do is tell people the truth, plant the seed, and leave the rest to Him.
_____________________________
Calea
Isaiah 2:22 Stop regarding man, whose breath life is in his nostrils; for why should he be esteemed?
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
